In my opinion, there are several group of people. There are those group who seek challenging content and would love the content to be made at that standard wherever they go. The other group are those that just wanna play casually, get their dailies done and call it a day. Those are the player that hate stuck in dungeon for hours which take most of their playing time off. Then there are those player who want to get their dailies done as fast as possible so they could focus their efforts on challenging content. So, I feel is good to have challenging content but it isn't good to have it to be part of daily run.
My suggestion is to have a raid like challenging content that has an independent reward chest. It has nothing to do with random ques or associate with any daily or weekly reward. People are free to play or try it anytime and how many time they want. If u win it u get the rewards. No string attached. Simple. The difficulty will be update at every mod to keep it at the highest level of challenge possible. The reward must be end game and a chance to get a really rare item in the game. If I were to do it, I will reward a 500k unrefined ad in that chest so people could be rewarded with a few day rest from grinding random ques to meet their daily quotas.
Lets ask ourselves something else, how is that possible that a player will queue repeatedly to a dungeon, fail a mechanic, waste the groups time, but in the two years (or when ever it came out) that the dungeon exists never bothered to check the countless videos, guides, posts, and what not, that describe what to do there?!
How is that possible that people rather whine "make it easy" that simply google what to do, or ask their guild, or friends or anyone who they didn't HAMSTER off with their entitled attitude.
How is it possible to demand of people to post guides and what not?!
There are people that are just not that dedicated. Some just log in and out after done playing. They sees it as a past time. Then there are those that derived their fun from other things like talking in moonstone mask. U can't really say how peoples should play their game or blaming them for not thinking the same way as u are.
Lets ask ourselves something else, how is that possible that a player will queue repeatedly to a dungeon, fail a mechanic, waste the groups time, but in the two years (or when ever it came out) that the dungeon exists never bothered to check the countless videos, guides, posts, and what not, that describe what to do there?!
How is that possible that people rather whine "make it easy" that simply google what to do, or ask their guild, or friends or anyone who they didn't HAMSTER off with their entitled attitude.
How is it possible to demand of people to post guides and what not?!
There are people that are just not that dedicated. Some just log in and out after done playing. They sees it as a past time. Then there are those that derived their fun from other things like talking in moonstone mask. U can't really say how peoples should play their game or blaming them for not thinking the same way as u are.
I don't disagree. If a person wants to do whatever they want and enjoy their game, I'm the last to have objections to it, as long ofc, that it doesn't have negative impact on me. If there is such impact then either a middle ground should be found or some side 'will win'.
But my point, or more correctly one of the points I was trying to make is a bit different. When a player fails on a task repeatedly, wasting theirs and the party with them time. What I assume hundreds of hours. They shouldn't come with their frustrations and demands claiming it is some secret information hoarded by the elite jerks in their ivory towers. When that information not only readily available for years, via a simple google search or well known Neverwinter resources but people invested a lot of time and effort in making that and other content (guides, videos) available for everyone.
That entitlement and small-minded behavior is the critical point.
A small point though to what you said, at the end, the game is targeted to some audiences, and dev resources allocated to create fitting content to those audiences. The game caters towards those audiences they see fit, and encourages some behaviors. So at the end, not all 'play styles' are equal, or have equal rights or priorities in that sense. This also governed by the monetization scheme, IP, age groups, interests, retention, studio focus, engine, devs experience, and many other factors.
In all honesty, Janne, I include you in that 10% of people who do make positive contributions in the public knowledge of the game. I really do. I appreciate your blog and all of the work you've done to develop the mathematics behind the combat system. Thank you for that. I sincerely mean that. I have tested several things on my own that I would not have been able to do without assistance from your work.
Lets ask ourselves something else, how is that possible that a player will queue repeatedly to a dungeon, fail a mechanic, waste the groups time, but in the two years (or when ever it came out) that the dungeon exists never bothered to check the countless videos, guides, posts, and what not, that describe what to do there?!
You made a bunch of assumptions there. The honest truth is, when I posted about my MSP experience earlier in this discussion, it was the first time I had been in MSP since Mod 16, and was the first time *ever* in MSP in the role of a pure healer. Before Mod 16, I never had an issue with trying to heal players with the curse, because (a) the boss died soon enough, and (b) players had enough life steal to heal themselves even with the curse, so I didn't have to heal them as much. So you're right I didn't seek out info on the precise mechanics of the final boss of MSP because I never had a need to do so in the past. It is the same with CR, by the way - I never had a need to seek out the mechanics of Strahd so I still don't know how the lantern phase works. I will look it up at some point, the next time I'm asked to be a healer in CR.
Second, if you read what I'm writing, I'm NOT actually arguing that the game should be made easier. I think it is okay where it is right now. I'm pushing back against the suggestion that the game is "too easy". I'm providing examples of where ordinary people are struggling with ordinary content. Sure there are lots of reasons why ordinary people might struggle with ordinary content. But if the content were "too easy", would you really expect to see so much struggling?
few hours ago, people streamed the new trial on preview, were you watching? Will you watch?
Why should I? It's not like I will ever be invited in that place anyway.
From what I'm hearing so far, this is just like MSVA all over again. For you and your circle of friends, when MSVA first launched, I'm sure you enjoyed it and had a great time. For a lot of other people, like me, it was a pretty horrible experience: you didn't get an invitation as DPS unless you were BIS++++, only support characters were invited. MSVA is the entire reason why I geared up my DC in the first place, because there was no other way I was going to be able to gear up my GWF. But I didn't start my Cleric in order to be a healbot, and my Barbarian isn't close to BIS, so now what? I have no idea. I'm not currently expecting to be able to do the new trial until maybe November. Maybe then I will watch a guide and see what I have to do.
Latest update - tried RAQ on my cleric. Got MSP. Tank ran ahead of group, kept dying, quit in frustration I imagine. So I asked for reinforcement in a channel, got an experienced tank. We managed to finish it in about 45 mins. Had several deaths at last boss, I have no idea how to outheal the boss's curse DOT. But hey we at least finished. So yeah totally a piece of cake.
Perhaps asking some more experienced healers how they do it is a good solution to this problem.
In general, nothing in this game is impossible, once you understand the mechanics. Just because YOU don't know how to do it doesn't mean that others don't know how to do it. When I get stuck like this, I ask my guild or my friends, and they usually have advice on how to play against this mechanic.
Alternatively, you can always come and complain on the forums that it's too hard to play the game, since you don't understand the actual content. I tend to think that usually when I'm stuck or struggling, the problem is with me, and not with the game - and that philosophy hasn't failed me yet.
Then you tell me. How do I outheal the curse?
Or are you going to keep it a secret?
@pariswinters#7118 claims that it is impossible to outheal Nostura's curse. Is that correct?
If it is actually impossible to outheal Nostura's curse, would you consider that to be a problem with the game, or would you still regard it as a personal failing on my part if I can't outheal Nostura's curse?
Do you understand that not everyone who signs up for a dungeon gets to play with a premade group of which they get to choose the membership?
This is a reason why people like me get upset at these "game is too easy" type posts. About 90% of the time, the people making posts like "game is too easy" are people who don't bother to make public any information that may help struggling players. They play only within their circle of friends, they figure out tricks and gimmicks that makes the game easier, but never bother sharing those tricks publicly.
If you go to the Class Forums section on Cleric, there are no new builds that have been posted since Mod 16. If you go to MMO Minds, there is only one M16 Cleric build that has been posted. It is a good one, and I'm following it (mostly), but it still doesn't let me outheal Nostura's curse in MSP.
Where is your guide on Cleric builds?
the only trick is to pay attention to who is cursed and avoid them (and if its you make sure you catch her next stun to remove it) the fight has 3 phases and 1 "intermission", phase 1 is the dps her phase, the normal one, after this is the 1 and only intermission, where some big portals come, then shoot a beam one at a time, it does some damage but wont kill most people, you go between them and to the edge to avoid being hit, then she comes back to the dps her phase for a moment and says something like "ENOUGH" then goes immune to damage and summons 4-5 tentacles which you need to kill then go into the yellow portals, all within about 30 seconds, as the healer make it a priority to jump into a portal before anyone else, often the last person misses getting to go through and remains outside and you cannot heal from one side to the other......anyway once inside you destroy the blue misty portal things which appear wherever anyone kills a tentacle, destroy all them and it goes back to the dps her phase again, then she does the "ENOUGH" again and you repeat the tentacle/portal phase, after this she says "YOU"VE DOOMED YOURSELF" and goes immune again and usually leaves a curse on someone, most of the time you can use bastion of health to keep them alive until she does the stun again, if not just make sure they dont spread the curse, ressurect them when they die. after some time she does a rather mild AOE damage to everyone then its back to dps her again for the last time.
I don't know if their are more phases if the fight takes a really long time, but its always went exactly like this for me.
See @katamaster81899 ? Here's someone who actually offers something helpful. Not whining about the game being "too easy", or unfair judgments of players, or flippant responses. Why don't you give it a shot.
Thank you for your thorough response. Just a few questions: 1. How do you "catch the curse" from someone else? 2. What do you do if everyone has the curse? Is it just a wipe at that point?
1. from proximity, the range is about 10', and its instant, like always it starts off as a relatively harmless tick, but grows in intensity over time, almost always allowing enough time to catch a stun and remove it. 2. everyone needs to get stunned, that simple and do your best to heal them in the mean time, if it is a wipe then maybe at that point you should explain the mechanic in /party chat so that hopefully the next try you guys can beat her. also if you get stunned while cursed the actual stun lasts about 1/2 as long as it would normally.
As a healer, what do you do if the curse persists?
There are several major discords, one for each class at least (2 for DCs) there are Facebook groups for all classes (DC have two) will we ever see chemjeff there?
Latest update - tried RAQ on my cleric. Got MSP. Tank ran ahead of group, kept dying, quit in frustration I imagine. So I asked for reinforcement in a channel, got an experienced tank. We managed to finish it in about 45 mins. Had several deaths at last boss, I have no idea how to outheal the boss's curse DOT. But hey we at least finished. So yeah totally a piece of cake.
Perhaps asking some more experienced healers how they do it is a good solution to this problem.
In general, nothing in this game is impossible, once you understand the mechanics. Just because YOU don't know how to do it doesn't mean that others don't know how to do it. When I get stuck like this, I ask my guild or my friends, and they usually have advice on how to play against this mechanic.
Alternatively, you can always come and complain on the forums that it's too hard to play the game, since you don't understand the actual content. I tend to think that usually when I'm stuck or struggling, the problem is with me, and not with the game - and that philosophy hasn't failed me yet.
Then you tell me. How do I outheal the curse?
Or are you going to keep it a secret?
@pariswinters#7118 claims that it is impossible to outheal Nostura's curse. Is that correct?
If it is actually impossible to outheal Nostura's curse, would you consider that to be a problem with the game, or would you still regard it as a personal failing on my part if I can't outheal Nostura's curse?
Do you understand that not everyone who signs up for a dungeon gets to play with a premade group of which they get to choose the membership?
This is a reason why people like me get upset at these "game is too easy" type posts. About 90% of the time, the people making posts like "game is too easy" are people who don't bother to make public any information that may help struggling players. They play only within their circle of friends, they figure out tricks and gimmicks that makes the game easier, but never bother sharing those tricks publicly.
If you go to the Class Forums section on Cleric, there are no new builds that have been posted since Mod 16. If you go to MMO Minds, there is only one M16 Cleric build that has been posted. It is a good one, and I'm following it (mostly), but it still doesn't let me outheal Nostura's curse in MSP.
Where is your guide on Cleric builds?
the only trick is to pay attention to who is cursed and avoid them (and if its you make sure you catch her next stun to remove it) the fight has 3 phases and 1 "intermission", phase 1 is the dps her phase, the normal one, after this is the 1 and only intermission, where some big portals come, then shoot a beam one at a time, it does some damage but wont kill most people, you go between them and to the edge to avoid being hit, then she comes back to the dps her phase for a moment and says something like "ENOUGH" then goes immune to damage and summons 4-5 tentacles which you need to kill then go into the yellow portals, all within about 30 seconds, as the healer make it a priority to jump into a portal before anyone else, often the last person misses getting to go through and remains outside and you cannot heal from one side to the other......anyway once inside you destroy the blue misty portal things which appear wherever anyone kills a tentacle, destroy all them and it goes back to the dps her phase again, then she does the "ENOUGH" again and you repeat the tentacle/portal phase, after this she says "YOU"VE DOOMED YOURSELF" and goes immune again and usually leaves a curse on someone, most of the time you can use bastion of health to keep them alive until she does the stun again, if not just make sure they dont spread the curse, ressurect them when they die. after some time she does a rather mild AOE damage to everyone then its back to dps her again for the last time.
I don't know if their are more phases if the fight takes a really long time, but its always went exactly like this for me.
See @katamaster81899 ? Here's someone who actually offers something helpful. Not whining about the game being "too easy", or unfair judgments of players, or flippant responses. Why don't you give it a shot.
Thank you for your thorough response. Just a few questions: 1. How do you "catch the curse" from someone else? 2. What do you do if everyone has the curse? Is it just a wipe at that point?
1. from proximity, the range is about 10', and its instant, like always it starts off as a relatively harmless tick, but grows in intensity over time, almost always allowing enough time to catch a stun and remove it. 2. everyone needs to get stunned, that simple and do your best to heal them in the mean time, if it is a wipe then maybe at that point you should explain the mechanic in /party chat so that hopefully the next try you guys can beat her. also if you get stunned while cursed the actual stun lasts about 1/2 as long as it would normally.
As a healer, what do you do if the curse persists?
spam bastion, and if you can throw up that Guardian of Life.
Okay, I was doing that, until I ran out of divinity. Still wasn't enough. We beat the boss anyway, but it was just surprisingly hard. I am NOT saying "OMG TOO HARD NERF NOW", just it was not what I was expecting. And, I did not start a Cleric in order to be a healbot, so I am having to learn how to heal people as well as having to learn all the new HAMSTER from Mod 16. This is a frustrating time, and Mod 17 looks to be even more frustrating. I am sure Janne and Sharp and Katamaster and their circle of friends will enjoy it wonderfully but the rest of us will just be stuck running Master Expeditions every day instead.
There are several major discords, one for each class at least (2 for DCs) there are Facebook groups for all classes (DC have two) will we ever see chemjeff there?
Do you have the addresses for these?
dont waste your time, they are ran by elitist's who care more about meta builds then actually doing something interesting and fun
Well to be honest I am not very good at using Discord in the first place.
few hours ago, people streamed the new trial on preview, were you watching? Will you watch?
Why should I? It's not like I will ever be invited in that place anyway.
From what I'm hearing so far, this is just like MSVA all over again. For you and your circle of friends, when MSVA first launched, I'm sure you enjoyed it and had a great time.
Hey now, don't slander all of us.
Not all of us were sitting on a throne made of livers and sipping one of those alcoholic drinks with an umbrella in them. Some of us were busy swearing at the RNG chest system ... or being denied food while Janne cackled "work slave, work!" in the background.
As a healer, what do you do if the curse persists?
You slip into the healer mentality, of course.
Berate them for being so bad at the game and for letting Nostura give them [redacted] and proceed to stay away from the idiot meatbags on your "team" .
Failing that, you should mention that they should get down and worship you, as nobody else but Your Holiness™ is worthy enough to be carrying them.
Berate them for being so bad at the game and for letting Nostura give them [redacted] and proceed to stay away from the idiot meatbags on your "team" .
Failing that, you should mention that they should get down and worship you, as nobody else but Your Holiness™ is worthy enough to be carrying them.
See I didn't do that. I asked about how I could outheal the curse. And then I got yelled at for OMG WHY DIDN'T YOU ALREADY WATCH THESE VIDEOS THAT YOU HAD NO REASON TO WATCH BEFORE. Maybe I should instead belittle pugs for being scum who aren't worthy of my heals. Thanks!
I still think for new end game content there should be an N and M version. let the people who want uber hard get uber hard with the uber rewards and those who still want to doit but can't quite cut the new content yet have a normal version with normal rewards.
(and all the old dungeons should be level 80 instead of 70 why limit content)
Latest update - tried RAQ on my cleric. Got MSP. Tank ran ahead of group, kept dying, quit in frustration I imagine. So I asked for reinforcement in a channel, got an experienced tank. We managed to finish it in about 45 mins. Had several deaths at last boss, I have no idea how to outheal the boss's curse DOT. But hey we at least finished. So yeah totally a piece of cake.
Perhaps asking some more experienced healers how they do it is a good solution to this problem.
In general, nothing in this game is impossible, once you understand the mechanics. Just because YOU don't know how to do it doesn't mean that others don't know how to do it. When I get stuck like this, I ask my guild or my friends, and they usually have advice on how to play against this mechanic.
Alternatively, you can always come and complain on the forums that it's too hard to play the game, since you don't understand the actual content. I tend to think that usually when I'm stuck or struggling, the problem is with me, and not with the game - and that philosophy hasn't failed me yet.
Then you tell me. How do I outheal the curse?
Or are you going to keep it a secret?
@pariswinters#7118 claims that it is impossible to outheal Nostura's curse. Is that correct?
If it is actually impossible to outheal Nostura's curse, would you consider that to be a problem with the game, or would you still regard it as a personal failing on my part if I can't outheal Nostura's curse?
Do you understand that not everyone who signs up for a dungeon gets to play with a premade group of which they get to choose the membership?
This is a reason why people like me get upset at these "game is too easy" type posts. About 90% of the time, the people making posts like "game is too easy" are people who don't bother to make public any information that may help struggling players. They play only within their circle of friends, they figure out tricks and gimmicks that makes the game easier, but never bother sharing those tricks publicly.
If you go to the Class Forums section on Cleric, there are no new builds that have been posted since Mod 16. If you go to MMO Minds, there is only one M16 Cleric build that has been posted. It is a good one, and I'm following it (mostly), but it still doesn't let me outheal Nostura's curse in MSP.
Where is your guide on Cleric builds?
the only trick is to pay attention to who is cursed and avoid them (and if its you make sure you catch her next stun to remove it) the fight has 3 phases and 1 "intermission", phase 1 is the dps her phase, the normal one, after this is the 1 and only intermission, where some big portals come, then shoot a beam one at a time, it does some damage but wont kill most people, you go between them and to the edge to avoid being hit, then she comes back to the dps her phase for a moment and says something like "ENOUGH" then goes immune to damage and summons 4-5 tentacles which you need to kill then go into the yellow portals, all within about 30 seconds, as the healer make it a priority to jump into a portal before anyone else, often the last person misses getting to go through and remains outside and you cannot heal from one side to the other......anyway once inside you destroy the blue misty portal things which appear wherever anyone kills a tentacle, destroy all them and it goes back to the dps her phase again, then she does the "ENOUGH" again and you repeat the tentacle/portal phase, after this she says "YOU"VE DOOMED YOURSELF" and goes immune again and usually leaves a curse on someone, most of the time you can use bastion of health to keep them alive until she does the stun again, if not just make sure they dont spread the curse, ressurect them when they die. after some time she does a rather mild AOE damage to everyone then its back to dps her again for the last time.
I don't know if their are more phases if the fight takes a really long time, but its always went exactly like this for me.
See @katamaster81899 ? Here's someone who actually offers something helpful. Not whining about the game being "too easy", or unfair judgments of players, or flippant responses. Why don't you give it a shot.
Thank you for your thorough response. Just a few questions: 1. How do you "catch the curse" from someone else? 2. What do you do if everyone has the curse? Is it just a wipe at that point?
1. from proximity, the range is about 10', and its instant, like always it starts off as a relatively harmless tick, but grows in intensity over time, almost always allowing enough time to catch a stun and remove it. 2. everyone needs to get stunned, that simple and do your best to heal them in the mean time, if it is a wipe then maybe at that point you should explain the mechanic in /party chat so that hopefully the next try you guys can beat her. also if you get stunned while cursed the actual stun lasts about 1/2 as long as it would normally.
As a healer, what do you do if the curse persists?
spam bastion, and if you can throw up that Guardian of Life.
Okay, I was doing that, until I ran out of divinity. Still wasn't enough. We beat the boss anyway, but it was just surprisingly hard. I am NOT saying "OMG TOO HARD NERF NOW", just it was not what I was expecting. And, I did not start a Cleric in order to be a healbot, so I am having to learn how to heal people as well as having to learn all the new HAMSTER from Mod 16. This is a frustrating time, and Mod 17 looks to be even more frustrating. I am sure Janne and Sharp and Katamaster and their circle of friends will enjoy it wonderfully but the rest of us will just be stuck running Master Expeditions every day instead.
Frankly, from my experience, mod16 MSP nostura fight is abit wonky. The phases timing are off. Sometime when the boss does the curse, she never do the eye thing for quite some time. I see a lot of people died not because of not knowing the mechanic but because the eye came far too late than usual. I also experience where the boss doom everyone even when she still has 80% hp. A lot of things is broken in mod 16, like the imaginary moving perma red zone infront of Demogorgon in the first phase.
A small point though to what you said, at the end, the game is targeted to some audiences, and dev resources allocated to create fitting content to those audiences. The game caters towards those audiences they see fit, and encourages some behaviors. So at the end, not all 'play styles' are equal, or have equal rights or priorities in that sense. This also governed by the monetization scheme, IP, age groups, interests, retention, studio focus, engine, devs experience, and many other factors.
I disagree. Anyone has the right to play this game as long as the developer permit them to. It has nothing to do with the audiences the game is cater to. People are free to play how they want as long as they follow the t&c set by the developer. If the developer cater the game towards a certain group, it does deny the right for the less favored group to play the game nor it gives any extra right to those group that they favor.
I still think for new end game content there should be an N and M version. let the people who want uber hard get uber hard with the uber rewards and those who still want to doit but can't quite cut the new content yet have a normal version with normal rewards.
(and all the old dungeons should be level 80 instead of 70 why limit content)
The thing is... The dungeons you mentioned are easy only if you do it with endgamers with a premade group. If you queue alone, I assure you, they're not easy at all because no everyone are endgamers. I agree with the guy in the first reply: should be very nice to give more rewards if you do the queue in hardcore mode. Maybe increasing the drop rate? Or giving something more? Not only once per week but everytime you do it. In this case hardcore mode has a sense, otherwise it has not. In this way the dungeons are not touched for everyplayer and for the top once, if they want more challenge, they can choose "k-team" mode with higher rewards. That's what I think. But don't say "everything it's easy" because it's not the truth for everyone. With a premade friends group of course everything is better, otherwise is a continue wipe the queue.
There obviously are different groups of players having different expectations from game. The very casual people just want to make a slow stroll without too much effort in building gear or knowledge, while the racers put lots of effort into build, reading strategies and need hard content to get their noses whipped on.
There is no reason why those two groups cannot coexist, but for one thing: The strollers must accept that there is some content in NW they will never see unless they join the racers. It seems to be very hard for people to accept 'No, you are not good enough, so you cannot do this', even if they put minimal effort into game.
The principle of doing an effort to progress into the content is not universally accepted.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
I agree the game is too easy, they should increase the HP of the new raid boss by at least 50%.
Ha ha ha ha Sharp
Have you beat it yet?
i can't stand sharp, he's the most prevalant elitist who always acts like everything is too easy for him, go play a different game. go play dark souls
Hope this is being sarcastic. Otherwise, totally unfair.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
I think the big question is: ¿Do we want to every player be able to beat every content in the game?
or we can ask in other way: ¿Do the devs want to every player be able to beat every content in the game?
The answer to this is easy: The option that makes players spend more money in the game.
I think that having harder dungeons than we have now, make players spend more money but I could be wrong, I dont have the data.
Back in the first days of the game, CN was a mith to me, but I wasnt frustrated about that. I worked in other dungeons (normal and then epic) and character to get enough power and skill to be able to do first boss in CN. Then second boss. Then 1000 fails in dracolich.
After entering a good guild I could finish CN for the first time, learned lots of things from better players and then everything was more easy, the game released more content, and CN was a farming routine, having new harder dungeons.
And that was a nice experience, character and progress in the game, desire for improvement and fun.
If when I started playing neverwinter the game was as easy as is now, I am sure I would quit in the first month of the game. Maybe not everyone likes this kind of gameplay wheere you need to work to be better.
Is just an opinion, I respect all the positions made here but for me one of the things that made this game fall is the trivialize of the content we had until mod 16.
There obviously are different groups of players having different expectations from game. The very casual people just want to make a slow stroll without too much effort in building gear or knowledge, while the racers put lots of effort into build, reading strategies and need hard content to get their noses whipped on.
There is no reason why those two groups cannot coexist, but for one thing: The strollers must accept that there is some content in NW they will never see unless they join the racers. It seems to be very hard for people to accept 'No, you are not good enough, so you cannot do this', even if they put minimal effort into game.
The principle of doing an effort to progress into the content is not universally accepted.
yeah or make baby versions of the dungeons with relatively baby rewards so people can at least see the maps.
imo there should be epic versions of the new dungeons that are hard, there needs to be a challenge for all players and imo the argument about "remove your enchants" is just stupid
if you wanna have more challenge start a new account "without paying". You cant buy from zen store/vip/pay to win, and then speak about game it's easy. every new mod the game become harder for a new player. every boon/enchant/companion/mount. And it's fun that you say it's easy now, on the release of mod 16 the game was a bit harder and criptyc had to nerfed all/buffed enchant, cause everyone QQ about the difficulty and the lost of money on worthless enchant. = if you are 25k+ you have the pay to win button. if you play Dc with others 4 player 25k+, you have 4 pay to win button. if you buyed from zen/vip or every other pay to win service you cant speak about EZ game if you want the challenge play a fighter 20k on Lomm with others 20k player (NON CW BUGGED)
I think the big question is: ¿Do we want to every player be able to beat every content in the game?
or we can ask in other way: ¿Do the devs want to every player be able to beat every content in the game?
The answer to this is easy: The option that makes players spend more money in the game.
I think that having harder dungeons than we have now, make players spend more money but I could be wrong, I dont have the data.
Back in the first days of the game, CN was a mith to me, but I wasnt frustrated about that. I worked in other dungeons (normal and then epic) and character to get enough power and skill to be able to do first boss in CN. Then second boss. Then 1000 fails in dracolich.
After entering a good guild I could finish CN for the first time, learned lots of things from better players and then everything was more easy, the game released more content, and CN was a farming routine, having new harder dungeons.
And that was a nice experience, character and progress in the game, desire for improvement and fun.
If when I started playing neverwinter the game was as easy as is now, I am sure I would quit in the first month of the game. Maybe not everyone likes this kind of gameplay wheere you need to work to be better.
Is just an opinion, I respect all the positions made here but for me one of the things that made this game fall is the trivialize of the content we had until mod 16.
Actually if u start a new character in mod 16, without any help from your main character, its not as easy as u think. Being a newbie these in mod16 is very different compare to the past.
First, your damage is double mitigated by enemy defend and deflect. We used to only need to work on arpen which scale like 1% for 250 stat? Nowadays its 1% to 1k stat. On top of that newbie these days need to deal with accuracy aswell. U can imagine how low their effectiveness gonna be in the content especially RIQ without a higher ilvl to carry. Furthermore being a lvl80 further gimp their stat in RIQ too.
Second, their AD gain. Its no longer the same as in the past where we could salvage purple stuff for AD. These days newbie earning are limited to leveling que 1k RAD per run and RIQ 2k RAD per run. With ME and daily bonus, they earn around 40-50k Rad. The rest is farming RIQ at 2k RAD per run.
So I wouldn't say content is easy for low ilvl. In fact they are harder due to the nature of how their stat and dungeon scale. They could only rely on higher ilevel to carry them through the content. If u put only 14-15k in prophecy of madness, its gonna be party wipe after party wipe.
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My suggestion is to have a raid like challenging content that has an independent reward chest. It has nothing to do with random ques or associate with any daily or weekly reward. People are free to play or try it anytime and how many time they want. If u win it u get the rewards. No string attached. Simple. The difficulty will be update at every mod to keep it at the highest level of challenge possible. The reward must be end game and a chance to get a really rare item in the game. If I were to do it, I will reward a 500k unrefined ad in that chest so people could be rewarded with a few day rest from grinding random ques to meet their daily quotas.
Have you beat it yet?
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If a person wants to do whatever they want and enjoy their game, I'm the last to have objections to it, as long ofc, that it doesn't have negative impact on me. If there is such impact then either a middle ground should be found or some side 'will win'.
But my point, or more correctly one of the points I was trying to make is a bit different. When a player fails on a task repeatedly, wasting theirs and the party with them time. What I assume hundreds of hours. They shouldn't come with their frustrations and demands claiming it is some secret information hoarded by the elite jerks in their ivory towers. When that information not only readily available for years, via a simple google search or well known Neverwinter resources but people invested a lot of time and effort in making that and other content (guides, videos) available for everyone.
That entitlement and small-minded behavior is the critical point.
A small point though to what you said, at the end, the game is targeted to some audiences, and dev resources allocated to create fitting content to those audiences. The game caters towards those audiences they see fit, and encourages some behaviors. So at the end, not all 'play styles' are equal, or have equal rights or priorities in that sense.
This also governed by the monetization scheme, IP, age groups, interests, retention, studio focus, engine, devs experience, and many other factors.
Second, if you read what I'm writing, I'm NOT actually arguing that the game should be made easier. I think it is okay where it is right now. I'm pushing back against the suggestion that the game is "too easy". I'm providing examples of where ordinary people are struggling with ordinary content. Sure there are lots of reasons why ordinary people might struggle with ordinary content. But if the content were "too easy", would you really expect to see so much struggling? Why should I? It's not like I will ever be invited in that place anyway.
From what I'm hearing so far, this is just like MSVA all over again. For you and your circle of friends, when MSVA first launched, I'm sure you enjoyed it and had a great time. For a lot of other people, like me, it was a pretty horrible experience: you didn't get an invitation as DPS unless you were BIS++++, only support characters were invited. MSVA is the entire reason why I geared up my DC in the first place, because there was no other way I was going to be able to gear up my GWF. But I didn't start my Cleric in order to be a healbot, and my Barbarian isn't close to BIS, so now what? I have no idea. I'm not currently expecting to be able to do the new trial until maybe November. Maybe then I will watch a guide and see what I have to do.
He really meant to say "+500,000,000,000" percent because leedgelord is getting bored at staring at Excel data all day.
I heard that he suggested enemy HP on preview increased by 200,000.000% because it was faster than watching paint dry on his front lawn. Hey now, don't slander all of us.
Not all of us were sitting on a throne made of livers and sipping one of those alcoholic drinks with an umbrella in them. Some of us were busy swearing at the RNG chest system ... or being denied food while Janne cackled "work slave, work!" in the background. You slip into the healer mentality, of course.
Berate them for being so bad at the game and for letting Nostura give them [redacted] and proceed to stay away from the idiot meatbags on your "team" .
Failing that, you should mention that they should get down and worship you, as nobody else but Your Holiness™ is worthy enough to be carrying them.
(and all the old dungeons should be level 80 instead of 70 why limit content)
Did you finish it in the end?
There is no reason why those two groups cannot coexist, but for one thing:
The strollers must accept that there is some content in NW they will never see unless they join the racers.
It seems to be very hard for people to accept 'No, you are not good enough, so you cannot do this', even if they put minimal effort into game.
The principle of doing an effort to progress into the content is not universally accepted.
¿Do we want to every player be able to beat every content in the game?
or we can ask in other way:
¿Do the devs want to every player be able to beat every content in the game?
The answer to this is easy:
The option that makes players spend more money in the game.
I think that having harder dungeons than we have now, make players spend more money but I could be wrong, I dont have the data.
Back in the first days of the game, CN was a mith to me, but I wasnt frustrated about that. I worked in other dungeons (normal and then epic) and character to get enough power and skill to be able to do first boss in CN. Then second boss. Then 1000 fails in dracolich.
After entering a good guild I could finish CN for the first time, learned lots of things from better players and then everything was more easy, the game released more content, and CN was a farming routine, having new harder dungeons.
And that was a nice experience, character and progress in the game, desire for improvement and fun.
If when I started playing neverwinter the game was as easy as is now, I am sure I would quit in the first month of the game. Maybe not everyone likes this kind of gameplay wheere you need to work to be better.
Is just an opinion, I respect all the positions made here but for me one of the things that made this game fall is the trivialize of the content we had until mod 16.
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Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
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imo there should be epic versions of the new dungeons that are hard, there needs to be a challenge for all players and imo the argument about "remove your enchants" is just stupid
=
if you are 25k+ you have the pay to win button.
if you play Dc with others 4 player 25k+, you have 4 pay to win button.
if you buyed from zen/vip or every other pay to win service you cant speak about EZ game
if you want the challenge play a fighter 20k on Lomm with others 20k player (NON CW BUGGED)
First, your damage is double mitigated by enemy defend and deflect. We used to only need to work on arpen which scale like 1% for 250 stat? Nowadays its 1% to 1k stat. On top of that newbie these days need to deal with accuracy aswell. U can imagine how low their effectiveness gonna be in the content especially RIQ without a higher ilvl to carry. Furthermore being a lvl80 further gimp their stat in RIQ too.
Second, their AD gain. Its no longer the same as in the past where we could salvage purple stuff for AD. These days newbie earning are limited to leveling que 1k RAD per run and RIQ 2k RAD per run. With ME and daily bonus, they earn around 40-50k Rad. The rest is farming RIQ at 2k RAD per run.
So I wouldn't say content is easy for low ilvl. In fact they are harder due to the nature of how their stat and dungeon scale. They could only rely on higher ilevel to carry them through the content. If u put only 14-15k in prophecy of madness, its gonna be party wipe after party wipe.