You need the new Profession Resources for the coffer as well as for feeding the temp assets. Most of the coverage of gathering I have seen has been either complaining about the leadership nerf or looking at it from a crafting perspective. The Rainer video I saw showed very low amounts of professions resources generated by an act of gathering which also consumed gold to get it. If you get enough data to work through the options for your puzzle please share. I had not considered using resources for temp vendors when my immediate reaction was to be very frugal with now scarce resources.
@antok500#4237 I definitely will share. I'm going to spend some time on preview this weekend and see what I can work out. The Recruiter requires about 12k Labor/Profession Resources to bring to the SH (that's accounting for the roughly 3.5% discount we get as a gauntlet guild). I just checked and I had my Labor value for the Gemcutter wrong. It's actually 23k Labor (not accounting for my guild's discount), and 9k Labor for the Assayer (no discount applied to that value, either). In the end, the three buildings will cost my guild about 40k to 42k Labor per week, assuming I need to run them continuously.
Aggregate non-discounted costs for all three buildings per week is: Metal: 104k Stone: 105k Wood: 72k (Assayer does NOT require this) Food: 38k (Only Recruiter requires this) Gems: 21k (Only Assayer requires this) Labor: 42k
The non-discounted cost of wood can be met with a L4 Lumberyard and a L4 Milling Yard, and it will actually produce 3k wood per week more than required. The metal and stone costs can be met with a L6 Mine/Quarry and a L5 Smelter/Mason, which will leave just 840 extra stone per week and 1840 extra metal. This assumes that these are tended with enough frequency to prevent them sitting full for more than a few minutes at a time. Food won't be a problem provided that your guild is level 6 or higher, though it's a close call for a level 6 guild. (I remember that from experience!)
This means that a level 12 guild or higher will have little trouble sustaining these three buildings week after week, should they need to. The Gemcutter will be able to pay the Assayer's gem cost and slowly accrue a few thousand gems into your coffer per week, to boot.
Now, if we were still able to generate crates of labor like we can now, then labor wouldn't be a problem, either. With 17 characters producing crates of labor 6x per day (two heroes per task), I'm able to put about 70k labor into my guild's coffer per week. I share this so you know what kind of a benchmark I'm going to be looking to hit when I check out the value of gathered items this weekend.
Also, unfortunately those numbers do not leave any room for the guild to grow - at least when it comes to wood, metal, and stone. They're just a baseline of what's necessary to keep gems and gold rolling into the guild's coffers. So for level 11 and lower guilds, they would have to stop maintaining those buildings in order to have the wood, stone, and metal for actual construction projects. With a L6 Smelter/Mason, there'd be about 15k extra metal and stone per week.
Find the post above where you said I was calling you lazy &/or impatient. I'm claiming your misrepresenting what I said because you in fact are doing that. And no, its you not me, but you doing it.
I SAID EXACTLY THIS - ONLY SPEAKING ABOUT MYSELF. "I have unlocked it. I just don't care to even do it cause my goodness, I dislike farming all the explorer's maps. My goodness some spend all day Thursday, Friday Night, then Sat & Sun for 5-10 hours each day just to try to farm 150-300x explorer's maps even with Explorer's Guild. I can't or don't want to choose to do that. If I could send Gatherer's I'd love to continue back into Master Craft.
No thank you! [Or I'll just rebuild my resources, at a pace more to my own liking]"
THEN YOU SAID: So you don't have the patience, yet you call people who do impatient ?
And wait, if you unlocked it, hence you are a MW, then you surely by your logic have million and millions of AD to spare..
You missed two questions, here they are again for your convenience:
YET ALL I SAID WAS: Where did I call you or anyone impatient? As for Mastercraft, I don't want to continue to, I miss having my professionals gather my resources. But my goodness perhaps that's something in time they'll be able to do? Then maybe even we'll have the chance of collecting High Quality Mastercraft Resources. I mean I do enjoy crafting! I just don't want to spend all time 'focused on' -exclusively- that. Maybe gathering of Mastercraft resources is a next logical step who knows?
Still when I said you're putting words in my mouth you are.
Post edited by strathkin on
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited October 2018
I don't remember now, but some of the upgrades are very heavy on food, so we got stuck there waiting for it, though I was planning for minimal spending and not the fastest upgrade.
With only a week till module 15 is release, and the serious issues w/ professions cost etc, I suggest holding the professions rework back until m16 until cost/value problems can be properly addressed.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Find the post above where you said I was calling you lazy &/or impatient. I'm claiming your misrepresenting what I said because you in fact are doing that. And no, its you not me, who is you doing it.
Either you are trying to strawman from the actual topic and avoid the questions, or really need to recheck your reading.
I'm not calling you lazy nor have I ever called you that, so was actually paying you a compliment, you turn that around again into an attack against me even when I'm trying to again pay you a compliment!
Please do NOT put words in my mouth.
Where I've said you called me lazy? You are the one putting words in my posts now.
I have never claimed anything about lazy in any direction or form.
Still when I said you're putting words in my mouth you are. Cause not once above was I even talking about you only myself. And I didn't call impatient nor myself I just said I don't want to do that anymore. I could if I wanted to, but I don't want to, so I don't. I'm not faulting anyone who chooses to do it, or who also chooses not to. It's not a reflection of someone being bad or someone being good. We are all just different people with different interests. I have a great deal of patience otherwise I wouldn't still be trying to smooth things over with you. Even though I've slightly disagreed with you on 1 or 2 other points other minor points. I still think you have much to add to the debate and I try very hard to not put anyone down. That much should be obvious. Just as it should be known I've never called anyone Impatient. You only implied, that I called others impatient, when I in fact I said no such thing.
I didn't say you talk about me, but you clearly said that Master Crafters are lacking patience, where I've explained you each time, that it has nothing to do with patience, MW sells only for a limited time, mod16 will have new gear, unlocking MW for huge costs but being late to the party where no one will buy anything is a simple loss. To not be late, requires investment. And yet you return to patience.
Just as it should be known I've never called anyone Impatient.
I'm not sure why you insist on this, the quotes clearly show you did, it is you who are getting back to it, I'm more interested in the original questions of investment and loss.
You only implied, that I called others impatient, when I in fact I said no such thing.
I didn't imply, I clearly quoted, you can see the quotes and screenshots above. A mistake is one thing, so you made a mistake, called people impatient when it's market necessity drives it and nothing to do with patience, happens, you can admit it and we can move on. Or you can start lying about not saying it, it's a matter of choice.
You know that new year is coming, and Santa wont leave presents to naughty boys that lie.
No one else wants to say it, so I will. This thread is hard enough to follow without trying to avoid all the beating around the who has the bigger bush.
@strathkin @micky1p00 You two need to move on, agree to disagree, take it outside this thread. PLEASE!
Since people seem to misunderstand what I was trying to say.
People who use the crafting system today who are not Mastercrafters fall majorly into two categories, sometimes both at once: 1) Those who use it for RP points. 2) Those who use it to help their guilds grow through making stuff to donate.
The RP point people will be majorly compensated by the removal of many of the ways of getting RP from crafting by epic equipment now no longer giving salvage but RP points instead. Yes I know we can craft gems now, but the value vs time and effort consumed isn't comparable to the current system. Though I grant a lot of us will likely feel flipped off by the complete removal of Leadership with nothing there to replace it. No Gathering isn't the new Leadership, it's a totally new profession that has nothing to do with Leadership. But that be as it may, we're at least being compensated in some ways for the loss of RP via Leadership.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just wanted to point something out.
We are not being compensated for the loss of Leadership or of Leadership RP in any way. Leadership and Leadership Gold/Exp/RP generation are being entirely removed and we are, in effect, receiving nothing in return for it.
Cryptic has this issue (as do many game devs) where they have a product, and they treat it like a product, and they don't actually understand why or how their customers pay for (or play) that product.
You level Leadership (or any craft) for the 'competitive/relative advantage' it gives you. You spend a lot of time levelling leadership, you buy adventurers and heroes, you upgrade workers and gear, you spend months at it, and eventually you get some decent Gold/Exp/RP missions and some SH crates. This gives you a measurable benefit for your efforts. If everyone else got the same benefits for free, you wouldn't spend that effort.
The RP coming from Epic gear is not compensating/replacing Leadership for anything - everyone gets it, for free. Gathering profession is not compensating Leadership for anything - everyone who ever levelled any Craft is getting it, for free. Every other crafter in the game will have it. The RP-from-epics thing is about removing AD from the game, not about any compensation.
Anyone who spent time/resources levelling Leadership is getting it taken away, stolen, removed. You receive zero competitive/relative advantage for the efforts you put into Leadership. You will have nothing that everyone else does not receive - for free.
Apologies for the long explanation, I know you and others already get this. It's just to help clear the situation for those who think they are actually getting something in return for their efforts.
Without a doubt anyone who has invested into Leadership is being dragged thru the MUD... Because anyone who uses Leadership would use the benefits for other Professions like JewelCrafting and Alchemy to afford the gold costs across multiple Alts.
Without Leadership benefits of gold, I cannot do JewelCrafting across 14 plus toons. The ALTs gold will run out for the necessary materials.
That is why I've maxed out Leadership and JewelCrafting on all current toons (14+) and was working on it for 12 others.
I am not a Mastercrafter. 1st you need to be in at least a LVL10 Guild. And Leadership was great for auto leveling toons when you have many ALTS.
These changes are short sighted. I'm POSITIVE they are SHORT SIGHTED. There I was being POSITIVE for the Haters or fanboys. It's easy to tell folks be POSITIVE, when you have nothing to LOSE.
I am losing 14 Toons with Full Leadership and Jewelcrafting that are now becoming USELESS IMO based on reading this thread. I use Leadership in four instances per TOON. Two for RP/GOLD/XP and Two for Labor & AD. All of that is gone except AD. Which will now be way more involved and costs maybe more. So I have alot to be POSITIVE about.... JUST SAYING...
NOW lets look at Jewelcrafting. Again 14 Toons, Running 5 INstances of Gem Crafting MAterials. Oh Wait NO MORE GEMS.
SO I have bought Master Crafters by 5 for Jewelcrafting per 14 toons, Four Master Tools per 14 Toons. Not counting the additional 12 Toons that would reach that goal. All with REAL MONEY for AD... I'M POSITIVE!!!
Now lets look at All the additional Character Slots. Will CRYPTIC being giving out refunds? Do I blame the DEVs, NO. But they maybe Partially to Blame? So here is my BEEF..... I do it all to advance my guild. I buy Shards all the time...not any more
And as Nunya pointed out, you cannot get enough Farming to have GEMs, INFLUENCE, GOLD going at the same. And then you need LABOR!!!! Which you cannot get any more from Professions. Not at Lower GUILD Levels at least. And later when and If Guild is much higher, you wont need too...
@strathkin I'm sorry, I must to say it but ... As far as I remember, this thread was to be used for discussions with devs and not with you. Instead of receiving reliable information, people are fed by your promises, faith and devotional wishes. Devs probably die of laughter looking at how you are doing to others "water from the brain" (I'm not sure if this idiom is found in English. Otherwise: making people idiots) But because of your condescension ,and "omniscience", devs avoid the explicit confrontation with the problems and frustration of players. The more I read, the more I do not like it. Just like multicolored, senseless distinction in text. This thread is becoming less and less readable, and the expected explanations are getting further away. There is no need for you to answer every question, you are not DEV. I'm sorry, but someone finally had to say it.
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
Not entirely sure where to start on this as there is so much to say/add about this upcoming change. For some context - I've been playing this game since Alpha, have spent more money on it than I'd ever actually admit, and have really enjoyed most of my time with the game.
Now for this change:
First thing first, the person who designed the tutorial for the new crafting system, take a rolled up newspaper to their nose, slap them a few times, and tell them very sternly, "No, Not ever again." Maybe rub their noses in it as well to make sure it sticks.
I mean seriously, that tutorial qualifies as a war crime.
I have never ever attempted something so incoherent, non-intuitive, and just crazy. Start over and make something that is clearer.
Specifically:
- I never would have finished the tutorial without some help from a guildie, some wild guessing, and being able to "cheat" since it was on preview (ie - using that special box in the workshop to get materials/assets you would normally have to pay for or not be able to get).
- The part of the tutorial to get 10 artisans, after getting that, no help or guidance in the game as to how to get the additional artisans. You'd think you go to your desk, where you can add artisans, but i go there and there are no applications. Only way I can add any is using that "special" box in the workshop that lets us "cheat" on preview.
- The part where you have to donate 500K commissions to the person by the AH, appears to be no way to donate exactly 500K, at least not without getting your sliderule out, relearning Trig, and maybe taking Pi out 1,000 spaces. I mean come on - if you are going to set it at 500K, then the limit either needs to be above it, or allow us to donate so that it doesn't have to exactly equal 500K, and it just ignores everything above it.
There are many, many examples like this that I think most of us experienced in doing the tutorial. But really, I have other, more important issues or concerns about these changes in professions:
- When i first started with this, I was excited, to see some depth/complexity - but what I ended up coming away with, was something a guildie said to me - What is the value of this to the player? I kept thinking over and over about it, and I had no answer. Think about all these changes and what value would I get to this as a player?
AD - nope, that was removed from professions a long time ago
RP - as an end game player, not sure I really need RP from this, plus, the costs of the materials, the cost in gold to do this, plus the time, doesn't really seem like it is a wise choice to "invest" in professions for RP. A new player, doubt they would have the gold necessary, plus they would most likely get all the RP they need from actually running content
XP - looks like that is being removed as part of this change, this was a great way to get overflow experience for your alts, to get their necessary powerpoints.
Gear - the gear (not talking MW, as we don't really know if anything is changing with MW or being added in this area) that you can craft is no where near good enough to be worth the effort, especially when random stuff dropping from a mob is better
Stronghold stuff - well, those recipes aren't there now (or I didn't see them), but I am going to assume they will eventually be there, but we don't know if it will be worthwhile to still make these, will it be too costly for what they provide?
And let me add - with these changes you MUST add some way to craft/create a Labor "crate" or something that we can donate, for the smaller/mid guilds, labor is a really big bottleneck, and there aren't enough ways to get real amounts of labor to donate.
So, with all of that above, I just don't see where there is a lot of value for me to invest in professions. I know the comment was made by the devs that maybe crafting isn't for everyone, but it should be for someone, it should be for a good number of people, or what the heck is it even in the game? Put the resources elsewhere? I mean, I actually enjoyed professions.
It's one thing to say Crafting isn't for everyone, If an actual DEV said that? But Crafting isn't NEW. So It's a little late to be SAYING CRAFTING isn't for EVERYONE!!!
> @raiderone000 > It's one thing to say Crafting isn't for everyone, If an actual DEV said that? But Crafting isn't NEW. So It's a little late > to be SAYING CRAFTING isn't for EVERYONE!!! > > Which DEV said it? Did a DEV say it?
It's been mentioned more than once, I even commented the same sentiment as you. If a Dev said it, it would have been @asterdahl and it would have been somewhere in this thread.
Please allow (some) weapon/armor transmutes to be craftable.
You’ve got a huge stock of designs from obsolete gear, many of which are pretty good, and your artists seem good at coming up with new things as well.
Perhaps, instead of dropping transmutes at (rarely occurring) CTAs or Simril, drop “designs” that can unlock recipes to craft the transmutes.
Taking this a step further, in the spirit of the mostly-defunct Foundry, you could allow the community to make and contribute designs.
Every new recipe will have a unique appearance composed of a variety of classic visuals retooled and available in unique colors, so please take a look. We'll continue to introduce new styles in future updates.
RE: RNG: Because we are introducing the concept of a success rate when crafting an item, you could say that more randomness is indeed being introduced. However, for leveling recipes, as long as you keep your artisans equipped with new tools (which are now obtained via in game means by simply crafting the tools or purchasing them from other players off the auction house) you should have a high success rate when crafting items.
Maybe I'm reading more into this than I should but your statement, "keep your artisans equipped with new tools," has me a bit concerned. Does this mean that tools will degrade as you use them? Or worse be one time use? Which I can't see.
How new system will connect with gameplay? I'd love to upgrade and do new professions because crafting was always my favourite part of any MMO. But I wonder if it will be connected in some way to content? Like "you need x asset that drop only in Tong" or similiar. It would be nice to have reason to run some content - even older one like msva.
Will new system use RP in any way? RP value decreased over time so I wonder if it will be usable in any way (like upgrade your tool
Any good AD sinks other than rushing tasks? For example every craft cost with set AD cost
How big role guild marks will play in new system? Masterwork and normal. Now it's nicely connected with mw so people had reasons to donate to coffer.
Though the new leveling recipes don't directly tie into gameplay in terms of materials obtained from combat, masterwork recipes will remain unchanged in this regard, and we will continue to include similar items in the future, such as those found on dungeon bosses.
In regards to refinement, gems will now be used in jewelcrafting recipes. For instance, black pearls and aquamarines can be used to make jewelry, with higher value refinement gems being used for higher level recipes.
mailsmithing and platesmithing are being merged under a single umbrella "Armorsmithing."
It sounds like Leatherworking and Tailoring should also be merged?
Leatherworking and tailoring use entirely different techniques and materials. Merging mailsmithing and platesmithing into armorsmithing was not specifically with the intent of merging equipment for more classes under a single umbrella, but to reduce the massive redundancy in metalworking professions (of which we currently had three.) We are also moving to a world where more equipment is shared between classes in some cases.
Let me start by saying, I am not "Chicken Little" about the changes, and am anxiously awaiting the preview server so I can see the changes. I am max level in all crafts including BI and all the event crafts, I am also Masterwork 5 in all. So far the new system sounds good, especially since I should still be master of all.
So I have one questions which come to mind rather quickly and am a little panicky about it because of the significant investment of "Real World Currency".
Black Ice Gauntlets were only available from the Zen Store for quite a while and very difficult to get as it was paying for a box and a random chance to get. You had to but a special box and usually got green one, if you got one at all. From that point you had to merge 4 green to 1 blue and then 4 blue to 1 purple. This was a very significant investment of ZEN which I spent a ton of time and money trying to get them. It took me forever just to get 2 of them only to see the support go away and now the whole craft is gone.
Is there going to be any special consideration to the fact that while other crafts tools were relatively easy to get, Black ice was next to impossible and cost real life money? For example ZEN reimbursement, even if not at actual cost?
Getting in game currency does not seem like a fair trade.
I'm happy to hear you're looking forward to the changes. Although we're making changes designed to make engaging in professions less tedious and easier to get into, we're ultimately focused on providing a great experience for those who wish to deeply engage in the professions system.
We actually don't necessarily want every player in the game engaged in professions, because then there's no market for anything anyone creates. In regards to your specific concerns about black ice tools. We'll be basing the trade in values largely on the current market value.
We cannot base the trade in values based on the value of the item when it was first introduced. There are quite a few reasons for this, but ultimately, the value of most items decreases over time. Artificially inflating the value later for a few items would be opening a can of worms and soon everyone would want to receive the original value of their item. Additionally, it would create a huge speculation market leading up to the changes. There will be some of that unavoidably, but we'd like you to mostly be able to feel confident your investments will transfer over based on the current market.
I don't agree with one statement: "We actually don't necessarily want every player in the game engaged in professions"
That's a very general statement. I would agree with Master Work Professions. Not every player can anyway, they need to be in Lvl10 Guild at Minimum and Lvl 14 for better MW.. Need Special Materials etc.
Why put so much effort into a system, that you don't want all players to use??? I like "Don't FIX what ISN't Broken"
> It's one thing to say Crafting isn't for everyone, If an actual DEV said that? But Crafting isn't NEW. So It's a little late
> to be SAYING CRAFTING isn't for EVERYONE!!!
>
> Which DEV said it? Did a DEV say it?
It's been mentioned more than once, I even commented the same sentiment as you. If a Dev said it, it would have been @asterdahl and it would have been somewhere in this thread.
I looked from page 1 thru page 11 and didn't find anything in those exact words...
But I did see Post from Asterdahl..."We actually don't necessarily want every player in the game engaged in professions"
While the words "not for everyone" isn't exactly what the dev @asterdahl uses I think they are the general spirit of the comment from page 19 of this thread. To quote:
We made changes with the goal of making the system more enjoyable for those who like to craft at a conceptual level, not those who specifically found its current implementation to be a lightweight way to generate in-game revenue. We built the system to have more gameplay; to give those who engaged more opportunities to make items that would be useful to themselves and their friends; to create more opportunities to sell and trade items; and to hopefully reduce the tedium for those who are engaged in the system.
A lot of people no doubt engaged in the old system because as some have said, to not engage would be "leaving money on the table." It's not that you particularly found the system fun or the moment to moment gameplay enjoyable. Understandably, if you engaged to not leave money on the table, and are generally not someone who enjoys crafting, these changes may actually make the whole thing seem more tedious, because you'll be engaging in bigger albeit less frequent chunks.
But changes that make professions seem "more tedious" to those who engage solely for profit was not at all the goal of the new system, but an unavoidable byproduct. A professions system which promotes trading and primarily generates wealth for those engaged by sales to other players is healthier for the economy and creates more enjoyable gameplay for those who want to craft for the fun of it. (It also creates opportunities for others to profit by selling things to crafters that they need.) A system where an upfront investment results in an infinite stream of revenue that requires no continued input from the economy encourages everyone to engage for fear of losing out.
(Source) tl;dr they've changed the system to benefit one specific type of players and don't give a HAMSTER if everyone else finds it bad or tedious. Nor do they give a flying HAMSTER about how it'll impact stronghold building, or anything but their own narrow group of favored few. Yes asterdahl tries to fob us all off a few pages later with the suggestion that stronghold donations will still be possible, but fails to address that a) that'll be at a much lower value, b) only be some very few specific items and there'll be categories that'll take significant investment of time and gold to get and that the easy way isn't going to cover them, c) that he doesn't really give a HAMSTER about any of this.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
----- SAID EXACTLY THIS "I have unlocked it. I just honestly don't care to even do it cause my goodness I hate farming all the explorer's maps. My goodness some spend all day Thursday, Friday Night, then Sat & Sun for 5-10 hours each day just to try to farm 150-300x explorer's maps even with Explorer's Guild. I can't or don't want to choose to do that. If I could send Gatherer's I'd love to continue back into Master Craft.
No thank you! [Or I'll just rebuild my resources, at a pace more to my own liking]" -can't go too long/extended periods.
THEN YOU SAID: So you don't have the patience, yet you call people who do impatient?
And wait, if you unlocked it, hence you are a MW, then you surely by your logic have million and millions of AD to spare..
You missed two questions, here they are again for your convenience:
YET ALL I SAID WAS: Where did I call you or anyone impatient? -----
But now your claiming I said patience, not impatience? Cause like in this example you have it backwards. Patience is a Virtue! Something more people could use a little in this thread, because that's all I've urged, give the DEVs a week or two to respond / adjust crates.
Impatience however is a negative trait that you incorrectly Implied I was calling you - which I still haven't in fact done! So don't 'twist' things incorrectly, yet again.
Denote the yellow & cyan in the above blocked off section. You don't need to read it all, just quickly skim to those two colors. The graphic tries subtle humor, to encourage cooler heads prevailing. I don't like seeing this shift into a slam session.
Also the statement above shown in your image, which you had to screenshot. Wasn't even directly at anyone, nor was it even a criticism! In fact, in this context most would consider it a blessing! I think even earlier you eluded to that very fact, 'Master Crafter's have to react quickly, cause if something is BiS determines it's value.'
Patience is a Virtue, yet in this context, it would be a horrible trait to have. I also never said I didn't have patience, again you were the one who said that. I think I've been extremely patient with you for example. Some Master Crafter's in time may get more patience however, as they move from just reselling gear, to keep materials to craft the odd time for themselves or friends. Or perhaps crafting if someone provides them the materials. I like crafting, do not enjoy farming maps, love if Cryptic allow Gatherers to farm Explorer's Maps for +1 results.
So this was never 'intended' to as a negative statement to you or anybody, it's just a true reflection on how Master Crafters 'have' to work, if they want to get the best value for themselves that others are willing to perhaps pay. So context is critical to understanding?
I've tried to explain myself to you, I'm not name calling, or incorrectly quoting you either. And if I had, I'd step up to the plate and be the first, to appologize to you. @micky1p00 I don't dislike you, I don't feel ill-regard towards you, I even tried to pay you a compliment earlier, which was ignored, and even made a peace offering saying maybe DEVs will re-consider 'your request' to 'improve' Mastercraft from 60%--perhaps 65-70%.
I however think the one DEV in this thread however 'paraphrasing' said, 'they didn't want normal Master Craft gear to be viewed not great quality. I later referenced it in contrast, 'to the potentially 'higher quality' Master Craft gear which may follow later.
Still I just wish everyone would TRY and show a little more 'respect' and courtesy to others, regardless if they share our opinion or not. I don't want to see it turn back into a bash someone or something.
So I'll apologize to you all now for trying to urge calm & serenity and asking you give DEVs a 'week' to respond, especially around crates we just saw introduced. It took 1-2 before you saw changes to other areas, and I was shocked how responsive they were. But I don't think 'some' are demonstrating a lot of class.
Do I think all Crates should offer decent rewards sure, especially charging gold &/or materials to create them. I'd just give them a week or two, perhaps they've already got changes in the next patch / launch? Perhaps they might also introduce a Strongbox of Labour added to Dragon Flight as I earlier suggested in this thread? Who knows... ...Please & Thank You - sometimes goes further - especially when your a little upset &/or perhaps disappointed.
Post edited by strathkin on
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,437Arc User
edited October 2018
For making gold in the new profession, when will the yield be calculated? When you open it like the current profession? Or, is it calculated before you retrieve it? I asked because the current gold harvest is adjusted by gold bonus when you claim it and not when you set up the task. Will that be the same in the future?
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
@strathkin I'm sorry, I must to say it but ... As far as I remember, this thread was to be used for discussions with devs and not with you. Instead of receiving reliable information, people are fed by your promises, faith and devotional wishes. Devs probably die of laughter looking at how you are doing to others "water from the brain" (I'm not sure if this idiom is found in English. Otherwise: making people idiots) But because of your condescension ,and "omniscience", devs avoid the explicit confrontation with the problems and frustration of players. The more I read, the more I do not like it. Just like multicolored, senseless distinction in text. This thread is becoming less and less readable, and the expected explanations are getting further away. There is no need for you to answer every question, you are not DEV. I'm sorry, but someone finally had to say it.
Hello @mushellka - fair enough. I also didn't want this. In fact I've only responded to 1/10th, of the incorrect statements, another person directed at me in this thread. I've also never claimed to be anyone but myself, but I also have the right to explain myself, especially if someone misunderstands 'most' of what I've said, or in the event they are taken everything completely out of context. Then twisting 'unintentionally' perhaps, to make it imply something entirely different, even in ways I never imagined it be intended. I'm 'trying' very hard to not do that, the truth is we all 'do it to each other' too often, in fact. When I said to [micky1p00] Patience isn't a trait Masterwork people have in abundance, it wasn't a DIG or even directed at anybody, it was just a reference to how the game economy actually works. In fact [micky1p00] even eluded to that very fact several pages earlier, cause he denoted (paraphrasing) BiS is what derived the value others were willing to pay.
So I have tried to not overquote, or placed a bias on how I perceive their comments, and find the 'best' possible intended meaning.
If people care to go back and read it, they can and clearly see what's been said. But I think all 'too' often people read to reply, rather than reading to first understand, and even when we think we understand, our bias, feelings, emotions, can often strongly influence how they are interpreted. So if we have something on our mind, or we are upset about something we've just learned, it to can greatly influence how we perceive it. I'd love if someone asked me, what did you mean by this statement, all it takes is to ask someone. I often regularly do that if not on the forums, then perhaps via a private message, but I've often done it within the forums as well.
I however offer another perspective from yours. Cause I don't think the DEV's are laughing at all. I think DEVs are actually relatively unimpressed, by the way in which some are complaining, to get things bumped in their favor. Anyone ever heard the term flattery &/or asking please, might actually achieve the same objective 2-3x more effectively? I understand people get upset, but I think we'd, be far better saying. Please DEVs boost the rewards from Crates more similar to what they were, especially now that it's costing us gold to create them. Though we also now have Opals, Saphires, and Emeralds we can craft in Jewelcraft among others to donate for Gems instead of crates &/or use for Refinement.
----- ENGLISH seems very simple, perhaps to the Chinese. Now is that statement de·rog·a·to·ry? Some might perceive it that way, for sure? A good friend of mine was Chinese, he was in Canada doing his PhD in Mechanical Engineering. We became good friends, and I actually helped him with English. That's when he told me the Old Chinese Language is very specific, exact, and very precise. I was told by him Old Chinese has a specific word &/or symbols to convey specific meanings, it was very specific &/or far more precise meaning, far more than what we see in the ENGLISH language today. Cause that's sometimes where he struggled to understand the intent or context. He was a very bright guy and eventually picked things up very quickly. The point I was simply trying to make: to understand the context, one needs to understand, and pay close attention to the words around it, and even then how it is interpreted, can be strongly influenced by our emotions, or the body language of others. Interpersonal Communication is a subject studied by PhD as well. We'll all often get 5x more from the body language, or how something is said, rather than even what is said.
Yet in forum's we can't see body language, only perceive how we think they are reacting. I've tried to remain very calm in almost all my correspondence. Still I think people are perceiving me with a negative attitude, only because they want to complain about the changes, thinking it will improve the outcome. How you perceive others in their intent is often more greatly influenced by your own prejudices &/or attitudes. Cause I can't control how people react to me, I can only in fact try to best control how I react to others. It's something I am always constantly re-evaluating, trying to ask myself to be fair to everyone, and let me tell you that is in fact a very hard skill for anyone to master--because we don't know what issues, challenges, or other things they could be facing. And everyone has bad days....
Realize English in the Oxford Dictionary we'll see a (word) n. (i) .... (ii) .... (iii) .... (iv) .... (v) .... (vi) .... (vii) .... etc... often followed by several definitions or possible examples, some can mean similar things, and others conversely different meanings all together. The only way to understand the meaning, is to understand the context in which it was said. You'd interpret the exact statement said by one person yelling at you in one way, and another who said the exact same thing in a soft calm & courteous manner--completely different. Your own emotions also 'most' strongly influence how you perceive others. All language today, English included, like many others is simplified - and there in lies the complexity. English has a, b, c, … x, y, z or 26 characters which we combine to make words, but each word can greatly vary in meaning &/or how it's interpreted based on the context, tone, or emotions involved by the communicator &/or receiver. So back to where I started, 'Chinese characters # in the tens of thousands' - written Chinese requires knowledge of 3 to 4 thousand characters, and there simplified version is still far more detailed. If you though 26 was hard. -----
Anyways I apologize to you for the lengthy explanation. I just wish people would cool down, and be less quick to resort to personal attacks. The negativity a bit earlier, was getting mildly toxic. Maybe ask for a Strongbox of Labour: with Major Labour Vouchers that already exist. So what's wrong with asking for a new Strongbox? It keep them separate from Professional Labour Vouchers that drop from Professional Packs.
For making gold in the new profession, when will the yield be calculated? When you open it like the current profession? Or, is it calculated before you retrieve it? I asked because the current gold harvest is adjusted by gold bonus when you claim it and not when you set up the task. Will that be the same in the future?
The yield for gold crates are predetermined. If you succeed you receive 3 crates, if you fail you receive nothing. There is only success or failure. It was mentioned that a high-quality success would result in doubling what you receive.
I think that's the answer you're looking for, unless I misunderstood the question.
For making gold in the new profession, when will the yield be calculated? When you open it like the current profession? Or, is it calculated before you retrieve it? I asked because the current gold harvest is adjusted by gold bonus when you claim it and not when you set up the task. Will that be the same in the future?
The yield for gold crates are predetermined. If you succeed you receive 3 crates, if you fail you receive nothing. There is only success or failure. It was mentioned that a high-quality success would result in doubling what you receive.
I think that's the answer you're looking for, unless I misunderstood the question.
I was talking about gold (the currency in the purse). If gold crates means real gold and not for SH coffer, then yes. Otherwise, no.
May be I was not clear. The current leadership gives you gold (copper, silver). The amount of gold factors in gold bonus (e.g. +52%) when I claim it from leadership. My question is more about if the gold bonus has any effect to the gold (the currency) production of the future profession.
May be I misunderstood that future profession can make gold the currency but actually it can't.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
For making gold in the new profession, when will the yield be calculated? When you open it like the current profession? Or, is it calculated before you retrieve it? I asked because the current gold harvest is adjusted by gold bonus when you claim it and not when you set up the task. Will that be the same in the future?
The yield for gold crates are predetermined. If you succeed you receive 3 crates, if you fail you receive nothing. There is only success or failure. It was mentioned that a high-quality success would result in doubling what you receive.
I think that's the answer you're looking for, unless I misunderstood the question.
I was talking about gold (the currency in the purse). If gold crates means real gold and not for SH coffer, then yes. Otherwise, no.
May be I was not clear. The current leadership gives you gold (copper, silver). The amount of gold factors in gold bonus (e.g. +52%) when I claim it from leadership. My question is more about if the gold bonus has any effect to the gold (the currency) production of the future profession.
May be I misunderstood that future profession can make gold the currency but actually it can't.
Having a look at it on preview, gold as a currency cannot directly be made by any professions anymore, hence the gold bonus will not be applied to anything produced by professions (as far as I can tell).
The Crates of Transmuted Gold (Alchemy profession) can be donated to the SH coffer. You can create things in professions, and then sell that for gold/silver/copper, however, the cost to make them (time and gold) usually outweighs the amount of you would get by selling them to an NPC.
I was hoping somebody who has tested it so far in preview can answer a few of my questions.
Using the 'Exchange Asset' function with the retainer, the best tools I can get are Adamantine Tools (+360 proficiency/focus). Making tools with Blacksmithing can yield +1 versions (+375/375). Forgehammer's (+600/600) cannot be used for Gathering, whereas there is a Legendary Tool for various tasks (+550/550).
Questions:
1. Are we able to get tools in between the +375/375 and +550/550 mark? If so, how?
2. Will Legendary tools still be obtainable in Mod 15?
3. Can Legendary tools be tradable between players in Mod 15?
Without a doubt anyone who has invested into Leadership is being dragged thru the MUD... Because anyone who uses Leadership would use the benefits for other Professions like JewelCrafting and Alchemy to afford the gold costs across multiple Alts.
Well, I wouldn't put it like this. All but two of my "serious" alts have Leadership at max rank, but I apart from my main (where I bought a number of Heroes), I haven't "invested" anything in that Profession other than my time....a couple of minutes per character per day over a few years....I don't consider than an "investment" - just a part of playing the game.
I actually think what I did is fairly typical. On every alt I first level Alchemy up - it is very fast and it is easy to use that to get some of the profession slots unlocked. Then I leveled jewelcrafting - that was because at one time the Personalized rings were actually really, really good, but they were BtC so it made sense to have this profession on every character. Then I would level one of the other professions (Leatherworking/tailoring/mailsmithing/armorsmithing), depending on the class of the character - just in case they would be able to make something useful for themselves, and also to unlock the last profession slot (get 3 professions to 20). Finally I would level up leadership, and eventually run only leadership in all 9 slots, just to create RP - in no way intended to help the other professions.
Hoping for improvements...
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
But I did see Post from Asterdahl..."We actually don't necessarily want every player in the game engaged in professions"
I believe the idea is to change professions so that they are primarily about crafting items for your own use or for sale. In fact, I agree with the idea in principle - this is how it should have been from the start, and quite frankly, that is just not for everyone.
What many (maybe most) players are doing today is something different - if you are in a L20 guild, you are probably just running leadership non-stop for RP, maybe with a handful of slots set aside for Masterwork tasks. If you are in a low-level guild, yes, you may be doing some Leadership for RP for your own use, but you are probably also making crates for guild donations as well.
You are probably not focusing on making items for yourself or others to use.....and that's what they want to change - you are not playing the game the way they think you should be doing.
Clear?
Hoping for improvements...
1
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I was hoping somebody who has tested it so far in preview can answer a few of my questions.
Using the 'Exchange Asset' function with the retainer, the best tools I can get are Adamantine Tools (+360 proficiency/focus). Making tools with Blacksmithing can yield +1 versions (+375/375). Forgehammer's (+600/600) cannot be used for Gathering, whereas there is a Legendary Tool for various tasks (+550/550).
Questions:
1. Are we able to get tools in between the +375/375 and +550/550 mark? If so, how?
2. Will Legendary tools still be obtainable in Mod 15?
3. Can Legendary tools be tradable between players in Mod 15?
1. MW tools are 400/375, 400/400 and +1 at 425/425 MW Titansteel 450/450 with +1 at 475/475
For example: MW Armorsmithing
2. A very educated guess will be lockboxes.
3. For this we will need a Dev, the entire thing looks bad in terms of binds:
This is when exchanged:
This is after used in a single task:
Currently there is no way to test the actual lockbox drops, it can be limited to the exchange, but if not then, oopss... Same with crafted tools all BtC on Equip
This the help text in general about tools:
Regardless:
I believe this was brought up, and it is still bugged, not all tools available at the exchange:
Can't check the others, those were hard enough to loan.
Post edited by micky1p00 on
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited November 2018
1. The contribution of separate items to the focus chance is not displayed anywhere, adding few +1 ingredients doesn't show any effect in the focus tooltip. A detail of how much each contributed will be nice.
2. Can the exact way of calculating focus be disclosed, the high quality materials part (the regular focus is not an issue)?
Though I can't verify now about the +20% if all ingredients are +1, it is understodd but how the partials are calculated?
It will probably be figured out, but it can save a lot of headache and time. Currently I don't know if it's a bug or not, but it is not consistent, at all:
Simple task with only two possible ingredients
minimal focus is 145.
Adding focus of 155, grants (155-145)/(352-145) = 4.8% as expected. Adding +1 water makes it 10% Focus. Delta 5%
So: At 155 focus which is 5%, Adding the same water creates 10% Focus Delta 5% At 219 focus which is 36%, Adding the same water creates 48% Focus Delta 12% At 265 focus which is 58%, Adding the same water creates 61% Focus Delta 3% At 284 focus which is 67%, Adding the same water creates 75% Focus Delta 8% At 315 focus which is 82%, Adding the same water creates 85% Focus Delta 3% At 319 focus which is 84%, Adding the same water creates 91% Focus Delta 7% At 320 focus which is 85%, Adding the same water creates 96% Focus Delta 11%
It jumps all over the place... Once the same +1 ingredient in the same task adds 3%, another 12% A single point of focus from 319 to 320 changed the ingredient contribution from 7% to 11% !
3. It will be immense QoL if there will be a context action for resources that will jump to their task. What I mean is for example if a task of "Tin Plate" has "Oil of Vitriol" and I right click the oil I'll jump to the oil task, or for easier implementation to the search tab with "Oil of Vitriol" prefilled and search executed.
4. Already mentioned, there is no indicator on what Dab hands works.
5. There is no way to clear all the materials, tools, artisans from a task, if I want to change them all, I need to go one by one and reset them, also moving to a task that has common ingredients will not reset those. It takes a move to some very different task and back to reset all materials to 0. (Some maybe will prefer that, but the right click context menu or at the bar at the bottom a 'clear all' thingie can be nice)
But I did see Post from Asterdahl..."We actually don't necessarily want every player in the game engaged in professions"
I believe the idea is to change professions so that they are primarily about crafting items for your own use or for sale. In fact, I agree with the idea in principle - this is how it should have been from the start, and quite frankly, that is just not for everyone.
What many (maybe most) players are doing today is something different - if you are in a L20 guild, you are probably just running leadership non-stop for RP, maybe with a handful of slots set aside for Masterwork tasks. If you are in a low-level guild, yes, you may be doing some Leadership for RP for your own use, but you are probably also making crates for guild donations as well.
You are probably not focusing on making items for yourself or others to use.....and that's what they want to change - you are not playing the game the way they think you should be doing.
Clear?
That just doesn't make sense. "Not using the system as intended" Then why did they create Guild Boxes in the first place.
I'm using the system as it was created! Small guilds are going to suffer with these changes... I think that's the intent.
They maybe making it better for MW crafters, but not Guild crafters.
I understand Balance changes. And typically don't care one way or the other. Time to move on....
Comments
Aggregate non-discounted costs for all three buildings per week is:
Metal: 104k
Stone: 105k
Wood: 72k (Assayer does NOT require this)
Food: 38k (Only Recruiter requires this)
Gems: 21k (Only Assayer requires this)
Labor: 42k
The non-discounted cost of wood can be met with a L4 Lumberyard and a L4 Milling Yard, and it will actually produce 3k wood per week more than required. The metal and stone costs can be met with a L6 Mine/Quarry and a L5 Smelter/Mason, which will leave just 840 extra stone per week and 1840 extra metal. This assumes that these are tended with enough frequency to prevent them sitting full for more than a few minutes at a time. Food won't be a problem provided that your guild is level 6 or higher, though it's a close call for a level 6 guild. (I remember that from experience!)
This means that a level 12 guild or higher will have little trouble sustaining these three buildings week after week, should they need to. The Gemcutter will be able to pay the Assayer's gem cost and slowly accrue a few thousand gems into your coffer per week, to boot.
Now, if we were still able to generate crates of labor like we can now, then labor wouldn't be a problem, either. With 17 characters producing crates of labor 6x per day (two heroes per task), I'm able to put about 70k labor into my guild's coffer per week. I share this so you know what kind of a benchmark I'm going to be looking to hit when I check out the value of gathered items this weekend.
Also, unfortunately those numbers do not leave any room for the guild to grow - at least when it comes to wood, metal, and stone. They're just a baseline of what's necessary to keep gems and gold rolling into the guild's coffers. So for level 11 and lower guilds, they would have to stop maintaining those buildings in order to have the wood, stone, and metal for actual construction projects. With a L6 Smelter/Mason, there'd be about 15k extra metal and stone per week.
Find the post above where you said I was calling you lazy &/or impatient. I'm claiming your misrepresenting what I said because you in fact are doing that. And no, its you not me, but you doing it.
I SAID EXACTLY THIS - ONLY SPEAKING ABOUT MYSELF.
"I have unlocked it. I just don't care to even do it cause my goodness, I dislike farming all the explorer's maps. My goodness some spend all day Thursday, Friday Night, then Sat & Sun for 5-10 hours each day just to try to farm 150-300x explorer's maps even with Explorer's Guild. I can't or don't want to choose to do that. If I could send Gatherer's I'd love to continue back into Master Craft.
No thank you! [Or I'll just rebuild my resources, at a pace more to my own liking]"
THEN YOU SAID:
So you don't have the patience, yet you call people who do impatient ?
And wait, if you unlocked it, hence you are a MW, then you surely by your logic have million and millions of AD to spare..
You missed two questions, here they are again for your convenience:
YET ALL I SAID WAS:
Where did I call you or anyone impatient? As for Mastercraft, I don't want to continue to, I miss having my professionals gather my resources. But my goodness perhaps that's something in time they'll be able to do? Then maybe even we'll have the chance of collecting High Quality Mastercraft Resources. I mean I do enjoy crafting! I just don't want to spend all time 'focused on' -exclusively- that. Maybe gathering of Mastercraft resources is a next logical step who knows?
Still when I said you're putting words in my mouth you are.
If it helps, you can use this to plan
http://jannenw.info/pages/guild-tools/costs
(Just add buildings, and current rank and target rank)
I'll just quote myself I have never claimed anything about lazy in any direction or form.
Hmm here you go: https://i.imgur.com/joCPU3V.png
https://i.imgur.com/a5sNBxe.png
---------- I didn't say you talk about me, but you clearly said that Master Crafters are lacking patience, where I've explained you each time, that it has nothing to do with patience, MW sells only for a limited time, mod16 will have new gear, unlocking MW for huge costs but being late to the party where no one will buy anything is a simple loss. To not be late, requires investment.
And yet you return to patience. I'm not sure why you insist on this, the quotes clearly show you did, it is you who are getting back to it, I'm more interested in the original questions of investment and loss. I didn't imply, I clearly quoted, you can see the quotes and screenshots above. A mistake is one thing, so you made a mistake, called people impatient when it's market necessity drives it and nothing to do with patience, happens, you can admit it and we can move on. Or you can start lying about not saying it, it's a matter of choice.
You know that new year is coming, and Santa wont leave presents to naughty boys that lie.
This thread is hard enough to follow without trying to avoid all the beating around the who has the bigger bush.
@strathkin
@micky1p00
You two need to move on, agree to disagree, take it outside this thread.
PLEASE!
Let's get this thread back on topic
uses Leadership would use the benefits for other Professions like JewelCrafting and Alchemy to afford the gold costs
across multiple Alts.
Without Leadership benefits of gold, I cannot do JewelCrafting across 14 plus toons. The ALTs gold will run out for the
necessary materials.
That is why I've maxed out Leadership and JewelCrafting on all current toons (14+) and was working on it for 12 others.
I am not a Mastercrafter. 1st you need to be in at least a LVL10 Guild. And Leadership was great for auto leveling toons
when you have many ALTS.
These changes are short sighted. I'm POSITIVE they are SHORT SIGHTED. There I was being POSITIVE for the Haters or fanboys. It's easy to tell folks be POSITIVE, when you have nothing to LOSE.
I am losing 14 Toons with Full Leadership and Jewelcrafting that are now becoming USELESS IMO based on reading this thread.
I use Leadership in four instances per TOON. Two for RP/GOLD/XP and Two for Labor & AD. All of that is gone except AD.
Which will now be way more involved and costs maybe more. So I have alot to be POSITIVE about.... JUST SAYING...
NOW lets look at Jewelcrafting. Again 14 Toons, Running 5 INstances of Gem Crafting MAterials. Oh Wait NO MORE GEMS.
SO I have bought Master Crafters by 5 for Jewelcrafting per 14 toons, Four Master Tools per 14 Toons.
Not counting the additional 12 Toons that would reach that goal. All with REAL MONEY for AD... I'M POSITIVE!!!
Now lets look at All the additional Character Slots. Will CRYPTIC being giving out refunds? Do I blame the DEVs, NO.
But they maybe Partially to Blame? So here is my BEEF..... I do it all to advance my guild. I buy Shards all the time...not any more
And as Nunya pointed out, you cannot get enough Farming to have GEMs, INFLUENCE, GOLD going at the same.
And then you need LABOR!!!! Which you cannot get any more from Professions. Not at Lower GUILD Levels at least.
And later when and If Guild is much higher, you wont need too...
I'm sorry, I must to say it but ...
As far as I remember, this thread was to be used for discussions with devs and not with you.
Instead of receiving reliable information, people are fed by your promises, faith and devotional wishes.
Devs probably die of laughter looking at how you are doing to others "water from the brain" (I'm not sure if this idiom is found in English. Otherwise: making people idiots)
But because of your condescension ,and "omniscience", devs avoid the explicit confrontation with the problems and frustration of players.
The more I read, the more I do not like it. Just like multicolored, senseless distinction in text. This thread is becoming less and less readable, and the expected explanations are getting further away.
There is no need for you to answer every question, you are not DEV.
I'm sorry, but someone finally had to say it.
to be SAYING CRAFTING isn't for EVERYONE!!!
Which DEV said it? Did a DEV say it?
> It's one thing to say Crafting isn't for everyone, If an actual DEV said that? But Crafting isn't NEW. So It's a little late
> to be SAYING CRAFTING isn't for EVERYONE!!!
>
> Which DEV said it? Did a DEV say it?
It's been mentioned more than once, I even commented the same sentiment as you. If a Dev said it, it would have been @asterdahl and it would have been somewhere in this thread.
That's a very general statement. I would agree with Master Work Professions. Not every player can anyway, they need to be
in Lvl10 Guild at Minimum and Lvl 14 for better MW.. Need Special Materials etc.
Why put so much effort into a system, that you don't want all players to use??? I like "Don't FIX what ISN't Broken"
But I did see Post from Asterdahl..."We actually don't necessarily want every player in the game engaged in professions"
While the words "not for everyone" isn't exactly what the dev @asterdahl uses I think they are the general spirit of the comment from page 19 of this thread.
To quote:
A lot of people no doubt engaged in the old system because as some have said, to not engage would be "leaving money on the table." It's not that you particularly found the system fun or the moment to moment gameplay enjoyable. Understandably, if you engaged to not leave money on the table, and are generally not someone who enjoys crafting, these changes may actually make the whole thing seem more tedious, because you'll be engaging in bigger albeit less frequent chunks.
But changes that make professions seem "more tedious" to those who engage solely for profit was not at all the goal of the new system, but an unavoidable byproduct. A professions system which promotes trading and primarily generates wealth for those engaged by sales to other players is healthier for the economy and creates more enjoyable gameplay for those who want to craft for the fun of it. (It also creates opportunities for others to profit by selling things to crafters that they need.) A system where an upfront investment results in an infinite stream of revenue that requires no continued input from the economy encourages everyone to engage for fear of losing out.
(Source)
tl;dr they've changed the system to benefit one specific type of players and don't give a HAMSTER if everyone else finds it bad or tedious. Nor do they give a flying HAMSTER about how it'll impact stronghold building, or anything but their own narrow group of favored few.
Yes asterdahl tries to fob us all off a few pages later with the suggestion that stronghold donations will still be possible, but fails to address that a) that'll be at a much lower value, b) only be some very few specific items and there'll be categories that'll take significant investment of time and gold to get and that the easy way isn't going to cover them, c) that he doesn't really give a HAMSTER about any of this.
-----
SAID EXACTLY THIS
"I have unlocked it. I just honestly don't care to even do it cause my goodness I hate farming all the explorer's maps. My goodness some spend all day Thursday, Friday Night, then Sat & Sun for 5-10 hours each day just to try to farm 150-300x explorer's maps even with Explorer's Guild. I can't or don't want to choose to do that. If I could send Gatherer's I'd love to continue back into Master Craft.
No thank you! [Or I'll just rebuild my resources, at a pace more to my own liking]" -can't go too long/extended periods.
THEN YOU SAID:
So you don't have the patience, yet you call people who do impatient?
And wait, if you unlocked it, hence you are a MW, then you surely by your logic have million and millions of AD to spare..
You missed two questions, here they are again for your convenience:
YET ALL I SAID WAS:
Where did I call you or anyone impatient?
-----
But now your claiming I said patience, not impatience? Cause like in this example you have it backwards. Patience is a Virtue! Something more people could use a little in this thread, because that's all I've urged, give the DEVs a week or two to respond / adjust crates.
Impatience however is a negative trait that you incorrectly Implied I was calling you - which I still haven't in fact done! So don't 'twist' things incorrectly, yet again.
Denote the yellow & cyan in the above blocked off section. You don't need to read it all, just quickly skim to those two colors. The graphic tries subtle humor, to encourage cooler heads prevailing. I don't like seeing this shift into a slam session.
Also the statement above shown in your image, which you had to screenshot. Wasn't even directly at anyone, nor was it even a criticism! In fact, in this context most would consider it a blessing! I think even earlier you eluded to that very fact, 'Master Crafter's have to react quickly, cause if something is BiS determines it's value.'
Patience is a Virtue, yet in this context, it would be a horrible trait to have. I also never said I didn't have patience, again you were the one who said that. I think I've been extremely patient with you for example. Some Master Crafter's in time may get more patience however, as they move from just reselling gear, to keep materials to craft the odd time for themselves or friends. Or perhaps crafting if someone provides them the materials. I like crafting, do not enjoy farming maps, love if Cryptic allow Gatherers to farm Explorer's Maps for +1 results.
So this was never 'intended' to as a negative statement to you or anybody, it's just a true reflection on how Master Crafters 'have' to work, if they want to get the best value for themselves that others are willing to perhaps pay. So context is critical to understanding?
I've tried to explain myself to you, I'm not name calling, or incorrectly quoting you either. And if I had, I'd step up to the plate and be the first, to appologize to you. @micky1p00 I don't dislike you, I don't feel ill-regard towards you, I even tried to pay you a compliment earlier, which was ignored, and even made a peace offering saying maybe DEVs will re-consider 'your request' to 'improve' Mastercraft from 60%--perhaps 65-70%.
I however think the one DEV in this thread however 'paraphrasing' said, 'they didn't want normal Master Craft gear to be viewed not great quality. I later referenced it in contrast, 'to the potentially 'higher quality' Master Craft gear which may follow later.
Still I just wish everyone would TRY and show a little more 'respect' and courtesy to others, regardless if they share our opinion or not. I don't want to see it turn back into a bash someone or something.
So I'll apologize to you all now for trying to urge calm & serenity and asking you give DEVs a 'week' to respond, especially around crates we just saw introduced. It took 1-2 before you saw changes to other areas, and I was shocked how responsive they were. But I don't think 'some' are demonstrating a lot of class.
Do I think all Crates should offer decent rewards sure, especially charging gold &/or materials to create them. I'd just give them a week or two, perhaps they've already got changes in the next patch / launch? Perhaps they might also introduce a Strongbox of Labour added to Dragon Flight as I earlier suggested in this thread? Who knows... ...Please & Thank You - sometimes goes further - especially when your a little upset &/or perhaps disappointed.
So I have tried to not overquote, or placed a bias on how I perceive their comments, and find the 'best' possible intended meaning.
If people care to go back and read it, they can and clearly see what's been said. But I think all 'too' often people read to reply, rather than reading to first understand, and even when we think we understand, our bias, feelings, emotions, can often strongly influence how they are interpreted. So if we have something on our mind, or we are upset about something we've just learned, it to can greatly influence how we perceive it. I'd love if someone asked me, what did you mean by this statement, all it takes is to ask someone. I often regularly do that if not on the forums, then perhaps via a private message, but I've often done it within the forums as well.
I however offer another perspective from yours. Cause I don't think the DEV's are laughing at all. I think DEVs are actually relatively unimpressed, by the way in which some are complaining, to get things bumped in their favor. Anyone ever heard the term flattery &/or asking please, might actually achieve the same objective 2-3x more effectively? I understand people get upset, but I think we'd, be far better saying. Please DEVs boost the rewards from Crates more similar to what they were, especially now that it's costing us gold to create them. Though we also now have Opals, Saphires, and Emeralds we can craft in Jewelcraft among others to donate for Gems instead of crates &/or use for Refinement.
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ENGLISH seems very simple, perhaps to the Chinese. Now is that statement de·rog·a·to·ry? Some might perceive it that way, for sure? A good friend of mine was Chinese, he was in Canada doing his PhD in Mechanical Engineering. We became good friends, and I actually helped him with English. That's when he told me the Old Chinese Language is very specific, exact, and very precise. I was told by him Old Chinese has a specific word &/or symbols to convey specific meanings, it was very specific &/or far more precise meaning, far more than what we see in the ENGLISH language today. Cause that's sometimes where he struggled to understand the intent or context. He was a very bright guy and eventually picked things up very quickly. The point I was simply trying to make: to understand the context, one needs to understand, and pay close attention to the words around it, and even then how it is interpreted, can be strongly influenced by our emotions, or the body language of others. Interpersonal Communication is a subject studied by PhD as well. We'll all often get 5x more from the body language, or how something is said, rather than even what is said.
Yet in forum's we can't see body language, only perceive how we think they are reacting. I've tried to remain very calm in almost all my correspondence. Still I think people are perceiving me with a negative attitude, only because they want to complain about the changes, thinking it will improve the outcome. How you perceive others in their intent is often more greatly influenced by your own prejudices &/or attitudes. Cause I can't control how people react to me, I can only in fact try to best control how I react to others. It's something I am always constantly re-evaluating, trying to ask myself to be fair to everyone, and let me tell you that is in fact a very hard skill for anyone to master--because we don't know what issues, challenges, or other things they could be facing. And everyone has bad days....
Realize English in the Oxford Dictionary we'll see a (word) n. (i) .... (ii) .... (iii) .... (iv) .... (v) .... (vi) .... (vii) .... etc... often followed by several definitions or possible examples, some can mean similar things, and others conversely different meanings all together. The only way to understand the meaning, is to understand the context in which it was said. You'd interpret the exact statement said by one person yelling at you in one way, and another who said the exact same thing in a soft calm & courteous manner--completely different. Your own emotions also 'most' strongly influence how you perceive others. All language today, English included, like many others is simplified - and there in lies the complexity. English has a, b, c, … x, y, z or 26 characters which we combine to make words, but each word can greatly vary in meaning &/or how it's interpreted based on the context, tone, or emotions involved by the communicator &/or receiver. So back to where I started, 'Chinese characters # in the tens of thousands' - written Chinese requires knowledge of 3 to 4 thousand characters, and there simplified version is still far more detailed. If you though 26 was hard.
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Anyways I apologize to you for the lengthy explanation. I just wish people would cool down, and be less quick to resort to personal attacks. The negativity a bit earlier, was getting mildly toxic. Maybe ask for a Strongbox of Labour: with Major Labour Vouchers that already exist. So what's wrong with asking for a new Strongbox? It keep them separate from Professional Labour Vouchers that drop from Professional Packs.
I think that's the answer you're looking for, unless I misunderstood the question.
Otherwise, no.
May be I was not clear. The current leadership gives you gold (copper, silver). The amount of gold factors in gold bonus (e.g. +52%) when I claim it from leadership. My question is more about if the gold bonus has any effect to the gold (the currency) production of the future profession.
May be I misunderstood that future profession can make gold the currency but actually it can't.
The Crates of Transmuted Gold (Alchemy profession) can be donated to the SH coffer. You can create things in professions, and then sell that for gold/silver/copper, however, the cost to make them (time and gold) usually outweighs the amount of you would get by selling them to an NPC.
Using the 'Exchange Asset' function with the retainer, the best tools I can get are Adamantine Tools (+360 proficiency/focus). Making tools with Blacksmithing can yield +1 versions (+375/375). Forgehammer's (+600/600) cannot be used for Gathering, whereas there is a Legendary Tool for various tasks (+550/550).
Questions:
1. Are we able to get tools in between the +375/375 and +550/550 mark? If so, how?
2. Will Legendary tools still be obtainable in Mod 15?
3. Can Legendary tools be tradable between players in Mod 15?
I actually think what I did is fairly typical. On every alt I first level Alchemy up - it is very fast and it is easy to use that to get some of the profession slots unlocked. Then I leveled jewelcrafting - that was because at one time the Personalized rings were actually really, really good, but they were BtC so it made sense to have this profession on every character. Then I would level one of the other professions (Leatherworking/tailoring/mailsmithing/armorsmithing), depending on the class of the character - just in case they would be able to make something useful for themselves, and also to unlock the last profession slot (get 3 professions to 20). Finally I would level up leadership, and eventually run only leadership in all 9 slots, just to create RP - in no way intended to help the other professions.
What many (maybe most) players are doing today is something different - if you are in a L20 guild, you are probably just running leadership non-stop for RP, maybe with a handful of slots set aside for Masterwork tasks. If you are in a low-level guild, yes, you may be doing some Leadership for RP for your own use, but you are probably also making crates for guild donations as well.
You are probably not focusing on making items for yourself or others to use.....and that's what they want to change - you are not playing the game the way they think you should be doing.
Clear?
MW tools are 400/375, 400/400 and +1 at 425/425
MW Titansteel 450/450 with +1 at 475/475
For example: MW Armorsmithing
2. A very educated guess will be lockboxes.
3. For this we will need a Dev, the entire thing looks bad in terms of binds:
This is when exchanged:
This is after used in a single task:
Currently there is no way to test the actual lockbox drops, it can be limited to the exchange, but if not then, oopss...
Same with crafted tools all BtC on Equip
This the help text in general about tools:
Regardless:
I believe this was brought up, and it is still bugged, not all tools available at the exchange:
Can't check the others, those were hard enough to loan.
1. The contribution of separate items to the focus chance is not displayed anywhere, adding few +1 ingredients doesn't show any effect in the focus tooltip. A detail of how much each contributed will be nice.
2. Can the exact way of calculating focus be disclosed, the high quality materials part (the regular focus is not an issue)?
Though I can't verify now about the +20% if all ingredients are +1, it is understodd but how the partials are calculated?
It will probably be figured out, but it can save a lot of headache and time.
Currently I don't know if it's a bug or not, but it is not consistent, at all:
Simple task with only two possible ingredients
minimal focus is 145.
Adding focus of 155, grants (155-145)/(352-145) = 4.8% as expected. Adding +1 water makes it 10% Focus. Delta 5%
So:
At 155 focus which is 5%, Adding the same water creates 10% Focus Delta 5%
At 219 focus which is 36%, Adding the same water creates 48% Focus Delta 12%
At 265 focus which is 58%, Adding the same water creates 61% Focus Delta 3%
At 284 focus which is 67%, Adding the same water creates 75% Focus Delta 8%
At 315 focus which is 82%, Adding the same water creates 85% Focus Delta 3%
At 319 focus which is 84%, Adding the same water creates 91% Focus Delta 7%
At 320 focus which is 85%, Adding the same water creates 96% Focus Delta 11%
It jumps all over the place... Once the same +1 ingredient in the same task adds 3%, another 12%
A single point of focus from 319 to 320 changed the ingredient contribution from 7% to 11% !
3. It will be immense QoL if there will be a context action for resources that will jump to their task. What I mean is for example if a task of "Tin Plate" has "Oil of Vitriol" and I right click the oil I'll jump to the oil task, or for easier implementation to the search tab with "Oil of Vitriol" prefilled and search executed.
4. Already mentioned, there is no indicator on what Dab hands works.
5. There is no way to clear all the materials, tools, artisans from a task, if I want to change them all, I need to go one by one and reset them, also moving to a task that has common ingredients will not reset those. It takes a move to some very different task and back to reset all materials to 0. (Some maybe will prefer that, but the right click context menu or at the bar at the bottom a 'clear all' thingie can be nice)
I'm using the system as it was created! Small guilds are going to suffer with these changes... I think that's the intent.
They maybe making it better for MW crafters, but not Guild crafters.
I understand Balance changes. And typically don't care one way or the other. Time to move on....