whoa, whoa, whoa... I was referring to the posts made by the guy above me who seemed more concerned with SS // MoF imbalance, than the class as a whole. Let me just get it out there that i completely agree with you. I'd taken a year off and have been back about 3-4 months. .... Anyway, for the record and all that, it should be pointed out that, I don't think Spell Storm, should be the definitive DPS paragon. The whole running around with a cone, spray and pray, is great for farming, and dealing with adds, among other situations.. but there also needs to be a place for DoTing, Kiting and laying down some serious damage. Looking forward it would also be good to see crowd control make it back into the game. Crowd control being more than freezing mobs until they evaporate would go a long way to making that happen. Bringing back CC, as a feature of support, in addition to returning us to competitive DPS, should be a part of the tuning which is hopefully going on, as we speak, at Cryptic. I know...stupid baseless optimism...never the less, its been a long time, and they really need to get it together with regard to us soon.
I wouldn't bother trying to make sense of the class "design" in any way: - The closest to accepted CW DPS variant is single targeting the boss. This is about shatter strike and the group appreciating the controlled momentum buff. This is via the Oppressor path, and DPS is the opposite of what the Oppressor path is meant to be. - You have the Renegade path. Until the last mod or so, there was at least some desirability, for the MoF Renegade, as pure support. Now, the party crit bonuses are practically irrelevant since the gear these days gets people to 100% crit anyway (end-game), the Combat Advantage isn't a big deal as you can now get it positionally as well as via other classes, the Chaotic Growth healing isn't needed, the chaotic nexus is covered as the party takes care of it's Arpen (again, gear so good now), and chaotic fury is an unreliable 30%. - The Thaumaturge path is pretty simply the intended DPS CW, which is 3rd rate compared to other classes. - Aside from Disintegrate, all the powers given us in expanding the class from level 60 to 70 are a joke that nobody uses - Arcane Power Field, Frost Wave and Imprisonment.
Bring back CC? Even if they did it, why would it make CWs any more desirable? The old story was that classes used to argue with each other, basically justifying why some other class shouldn't get any kind of DPS increase, and why they shouldn't get a nerf. The most common thing told to CWs was that they were meant to control, or at least destroy mobs, and not be able to take on the more serious business of boss killing. People don't even bother with "CWs are Control" or worry about balancing nerfs, as it's become very clear to them over time, that the DEVs aren't bothered. Well, you seen any other DPS class that can't take out mobs? Even the TR, meant to the paragon of massive boss single target damage, readily wipes out entire mobs with ease, as do virtually all the other classes.
Yeah, the CW class is a broken heap of rubbish design, out of the meta, and getting further away with each passing module.
We're now down to "they really need to get it together with regard to us soon". That's what I'm trying to tell you. It's the most important bit of all: - They can easily make us more relevant. They have no intention of doing it. - They've had plenty of time. Time is not their issue. - Think of all the time they've spent making new gears with new powers etc. What have they done for the CW? - For the last 3 modules they've seen a few classes, CW in particular, and DPS CW most of all - unwanted by parties for new content. What have they done about it? Nothing? - Is the problem a minor one? No! The statistical bias from class counts for end-game content, is massive - absolutely compelling.
You know that when they bring out new year, that attribute increases are the big deal. What did the big DPS Orcus set give? Str + Con. What did the previous big DPS Lostmauth set bring? Str + Dex. What did the awesome Tenser Disk (a mage spell) bring as the ultimate DPS mount back in the day? Str + Dex.
The class has been a mess for many modules now, spanning years, totally neglected and ignored. You really have absolutely no reason to think that anything is going to change.
At some point you've got to ask yourself, if the DEVs don't like the CW class, and don't care about CWs, could they have made it any more clear than they have been doing, without saying it directly?
You seem so hell bent on the CW being a top end DPS class. Well, the CW is not a GWF or a TR in that regard. Both of those classes are pure DPS selfish SOB that we all have to live with in this game. The CW is a class that provide us as players a variety of ways to play.
Oppressor path provides CW the ability to play as a hybrid DPS buffer. We can play as a SS AoE build where we can provide some buffing utility. On bosses, switching over to MoF we can futher enchance our ability to help the group by debuffing and still do good damage due to the extra DoT MoF and stronger single target abilities that the MoF path offers.
Renegade is a great build to have for those days you end up soloing content and are using the Chult Tiger as your companion or days when you do a RQ and end up with a really low IL group that needs some extra stats.
The Thaum path is there for those players that only want to do damage and not help the group out in any form or way. This path damage wise is a bit higher than the Opp but it offers not group utility. Maybe only to be used if the group already has another CW in the group.
As for damage vs. other class, the game needs to continue balancing classes out. I honestly think other classes should be adjusted to the damage level of the CW Thaum build. That build seems right where it should be, whereas other DPS clases seems to kill stuff a bit to fast. I noticed this with my GWF and my HR. Slight adjustments would make these other classes damage closer without taking to much away from them.
The thing is though, what does Cryptic have as a plan for this game and class balancing long term? That will determine if any thing will change for the CW or other classes. I mean first thing first fix bugs than balance the classes afterwards.
Spent the past couple weeks, now that my wiz is fairly back in the swing of things (15.5IL, arpen 86-90(Xbox), crit 101.3, 13.7k recovery), trying to prove @lukejones77 wrong. Sadly I have completly failed
I run Opp with 5/5 elemental reinforcement. Predominatly MoF, but a little SS too farming trash, doing influence etc. Trans Fey/Bark It’s fun when I’m soloing.. for the most part..but as soon groups start forming its apparent how useless I am. More of a bad joke, than an actual toon, when out with a gwf or rogue if our IL's are within a few thousand. That gap is sadly nowhere near close.. Double digit percentage points minimum..
As for variety..well that just makes me scratch my head. Renegade and thuam are completly useless. Full stop. There is no real control in the game, nor a reason to have it. So, whether we can, or can’t, is irrelevant. Frankly, until I have an ae mez and single target charm, the conversation about control is moot. So variety = is go ss to make farming trash mobs for hunt spawns marginally faster, or go slightly slower with the trash, and be able to bring down the rex’s a bit easier. Cause really. Farming smops is all your going to be doing because no one wants you, and who could blame them. Heck, I don't even want me..
You say fix the bugs first and it begs a bit more explanation. Are other classes posting these totals through sploits I’m unaware of? Apart from buglock and the sod rogue thing(isn’t making it to Xbox anyway). I can’t think of any. Sure buglock but meh, kinda beside the point. I’m just not sure @mebengalsfan#9264 of the bugs your referring to which should come before working on Cw’s as a class? Because right now we are pretty much the living breathing embodiment of swirling the bowl.
Post edited by kriptical1 on
1
lukejones77Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
whoa, whoa, whoa... I was referring to the posts made by the guy above me who seemed more concerned with SS // MoF imbalance, than the class as a whole. Let me just get it out there that i completely agree with you. I'd taken a year off and have been back about 3-4 months. .... Anyway, for the record and all that, it should be pointed out that, I don't think Spell Storm, should be the definitive DPS paragon. The whole running around with a cone, spray and pray, is great for farming, and dealing with adds, among other situations.. but there also needs to be a place for DoTing, Kiting and laying down some serious damage. Looking forward it would also be good to see crowd control make it back into the game. Crowd control being more than freezing mobs until they evaporate would go a long way to making that happen. Bringing back CC, as a feature of support, in addition to returning us to competitive DPS, should be a part of the tuning which is hopefully going on, as we speak, at Cryptic. I know...stupid baseless optimism...never the less, its been a long time, and they really need to get it together with regard to us soon.
I wouldn't bother trying to make sense of the class "design" in any way: - The closest to accepted CW DPS variant is single targeting the boss. This is about shatter strike and the group appreciating the controlled momentum buff. This is via the Oppressor path, and DPS is the opposite of what the Oppressor path is meant to be. - You have the Renegade path. Until the last mod or so, there was at least some desirability, for the MoF Renegade, as pure support. Now, the party crit bonuses are practically irrelevant since the gear these days gets people to 100% crit anyway (end-game), the Combat Advantage isn't a big deal as you can now get it positionally as well as via other classes, the Chaotic Growth healing isn't needed, the chaotic nexus is covered as the party takes care of it's Arpen (again, gear so good now), and chaotic fury is an unreliable 30%. - The Thaumaturge path is pretty simply the intended DPS CW, which is 3rd rate compared to other classes. - Aside from Disintegrate, all the powers given us in expanding the class from level 60 to 70 are a joke that nobody uses - Arcane Power Field, Frost Wave and Imprisonment.
Bring back CC? Even if they did it, why would it make CWs any more desirable? The old story was that classes used to argue with each other, basically justifying why some other class shouldn't get any kind of DPS increase, and why they shouldn't get a nerf. The most common thing told to CWs was that they were meant to control, or at least destroy mobs, and not be able to take on the more serious business of boss killing. People don't even bother with "CWs are Control" or worry about balancing nerfs, as it's become very clear to them over time, that the DEVs aren't bothered. Well, you seen any other DPS class that can't take out mobs? Even the TR, meant to the paragon of massive boss single target damage, readily wipes out entire mobs with ease, as do virtually all the other classes.
Yeah, the CW class is a broken heap of rubbish design, out of the meta, and getting further away with each passing module.
We're now down to "they really need to get it together with regard to us soon". That's what I'm trying to tell you. It's the most important bit of all: - They can easily make us more relevant. They have no intention of doing it. - They've had plenty of time. Time is not their issue. - Think of all the time they've spent making new gears with new powers etc. What have they done for the CW? - For the last 3 modules they've seen a few classes, CW in particular, and DPS CW most of all - unwanted by parties for new content. What have they done about it? Nothing? - Is the problem a minor one? No! The statistical bias from class counts for end-game content, is massive - absolutely compelling.
You know that when they bring out new year, that attribute increases are the big deal. What did the big DPS Orcus set give? Str + Con. What did the previous big DPS Lostmauth set bring? Str + Dex. What did the awesome Tenser Disk (a mage spell) bring as the ultimate DPS mount back in the day? Str + Dex.
The class has been a mess for many modules now, spanning years, totally neglected and ignored. You really have absolutely no reason to think that anything is going to change.
At some point you've got to ask yourself, if the DEVs don't like the CW class, and don't care about CWs, could they have made it any more clear than they have been doing, without saying it directly?
You seem so hell bent on the CW being a top end DPS class. Well, the CW is not a GWF or a TR in that regard. Both of those classes are pure DPS selfish SOB that we all have to live with in this game. The CW is a class that provide us as players a variety of ways to play.
Oppressor path provides CW the ability to play as a hybrid DPS buffer. We can play as a SS AoE build where we can provide some buffing utility. On bosses, switching over to MoF we can futher enchance our ability to help the group by debuffing and still do good damage due to the extra DoT MoF and stronger single target abilities that the MoF path offers.
Renegade is a great build to have for those days you end up soloing content and are using the Chult Tiger as your companion or days when you do a RQ and end up with a really low IL group that needs some extra stats.
The Thaum path is there for those players that only want to do damage and not help the group out in any form or way. This path damage wise is a bit higher than the Opp but it offers not group utility. Maybe only to be used if the group already has another CW in the group.
As for damage vs. other class, the game needs to continue balancing classes out. I honestly think other classes should be adjusted to the damage level of the CW Thaum build. That build seems right where it should be, whereas other DPS clases seems to kill stuff a bit to fast. I noticed this with my GWF and my HR. Slight adjustments would make these other classes damage closer without taking to much away from them.
The thing is though, what does Cryptic have as a plan for this game and class balancing long term? That will determine if any thing will change for the CW or other classes. I mean first thing first fix bugs than balance the classes afterwards.
You really didn't need to explain to me what the various paths are meant to be.
Actually, I'm just about the CW being something that parties want to take to end game content. CWs are simply not wanted. We're 3rd rate DPS and 2nd rate control. Most players want to play their CW as DPS. I know. I used to get asked a lot about build advice many mods ago when people thought CW was a viable class. "DPS", almost every time, as in what you are required to queue as. The meta has dominated now for 3 modules, and you're either the nominated DPS, or a support supporting that DPS choice. Your thoughts about what the DEVs might do are all very well, but my point is that they've shown you they're not interested. Re-read my post. They're not interested in your ideas. Things are exactly the way that they want them to be, for CW. People have been making suggestions for 3 years that have been ignored. You need to work out if the DEVs don't have the capability, or they haven't had the time, or they simply don't want to. What my post does is to show you why the answer is that they clearly don't want to, and have been happy with CW being unwanted since mod 12.
whoa, whoa, whoa... I was referring to the posts made by the guy above me who seemed more concerned with SS // MoF imbalance, than the class as a whole. Let me just get it out there that i completely agree with you. I'd taken a year off and have been back about 3-4 months. .... Anyway, for the record and all that, it should be pointed out that, I don't think Spell Storm, should be the definitive DPS paragon. The whole running around with a cone, spray and pray, is great for farming, and dealing with adds, among other situations.. but there also needs to be a place for DoTing, Kiting and laying down some serious damage. Looking forward it would also be good to see crowd control make it back into the game. Crowd control being more than freezing mobs until they evaporate would go a long way to making that happen. Bringing back CC, as a feature of support, in addition to returning us to competitive DPS, should be a part of the tuning which is hopefully going on, as we speak, at Cryptic. I know...stupid baseless optimism...never the less, its been a long time, and they really need to get it together with regard to us soon.
I wouldn't bother trying to make sense of the class "design" in any way: - The closest to accepted CW DPS variant is single targeting the boss. This is about shatter strike and the group appreciating the controlled momentum buff. This is via the Oppressor path, and DPS is the opposite of what the Oppressor path is meant to be. - You have the Renegade path. Until the last mod or so, there was at least some desirability, for the MoF Renegade, as pure support. Now, the party crit bonuses are practically irrelevant since the gear these days gets people to 100% crit anyway (end-game), the Combat Advantage isn't a big deal as you can now get it positionally as well as via other classes, the Chaotic Growth healing isn't needed, the chaotic nexus is covered as the party takes care of it's Arpen (again, gear so good now), and chaotic fury is an unreliable 30%. - The Thaumaturge path is pretty simply the intended DPS CW, which is 3rd rate compared to other classes. - Aside from Disintegrate, all the powers given us in expanding the class from level 60 to 70 are a joke that nobody uses - Arcane Power Field, Frost Wave and Imprisonment.
Bring back CC? Even if they did it, why would it make CWs any more desirable? The old story was that classes used to argue with each other, basically justifying why some other class shouldn't get any kind of DPS increase, and why they shouldn't get a nerf. The most common thing told to CWs was that they were meant to control, or at least destroy mobs, and not be able to take on the more serious business of boss killing. People don't even bother with "CWs are Control" or worry about balancing nerfs, as it's become very clear to them over time, that the DEVs aren't bothered. Well, you seen any other DPS class that can't take out mobs? Even the TR, meant to the paragon of massive boss single target damage, readily wipes out entire mobs with ease, as do virtually all the other classes.
Yeah, the CW class is a broken heap of rubbish design, out of the meta, and getting further away with each passing module.
We're now down to "they really need to get it together with regard to us soon". That's what I'm trying to tell you. It's the most important bit of all: - They can easily make us more relevant. They have no intention of doing it. - They've had plenty of time. Time is not their issue. - Think of all the time they've spent making new gears with new powers etc. What have they done for the CW? - For the last 3 modules they've seen a few classes, CW in particular, and DPS CW most of all - unwanted by parties for new content. What have they done about it? Nothing? - Is the problem a minor one? No! The statistical bias from class counts for end-game content, is massive - absolutely compelling.
You know that when they bring out new year, that attribute increases are the big deal. What did the big DPS Orcus set give? Str + Con. What did the previous big DPS Lostmauth set bring? Str + Dex. What did the awesome Tenser Disk (a mage spell) bring as the ultimate DPS mount back in the day? Str + Dex.
The class has been a mess for many modules now, spanning years, totally neglected and ignored. You really have absolutely no reason to think that anything is going to change.
At some point you've got to ask yourself, if the DEVs don't like the CW class, and don't care about CWs, could they have made it any more clear than they have been doing, without saying it directly?
You seem so hell bent on the CW being a top end DPS class. Well, the CW is not a GWF or a TR in that regard. Both of those classes are pure DPS selfish SOB that we all have to live with in this game. The CW is a class that provide us as players a variety of ways to play.
Oppressor path provides CW the ability to play as a hybrid DPS buffer. We can play as a SS AoE build where we can provide some buffing utility. On bosses, switching over to MoF we can futher enchance our ability to help the group by debuffing and still do good damage due to the extra DoT MoF and stronger single target abilities that the MoF path offers.
Renegade is a great build to have for those days you end up soloing content and are using the Chult Tiger as your companion or days when you do a RQ and end up with a really low IL group that needs some extra stats.
The Thaum path is there for those players that only want to do damage and not help the group out in any form or way. This path damage wise is a bit higher than the Opp but it offers not group utility. Maybe only to be used if the group already has another CW in the group.
As for damage vs. other class, the game needs to continue balancing classes out. I honestly think other classes should be adjusted to the damage level of the CW Thaum build. That build seems right where it should be, whereas other DPS clases seems to kill stuff a bit to fast. I noticed this with my GWF and my HR. Slight adjustments would make these other classes damage closer without taking to much away from them.
The thing is though, what does Cryptic have as a plan for this game and class balancing long term? That will determine if any thing will change for the CW or other classes. I mean first thing first fix bugs than balance the classes afterwards.
You really didn't need to explain to me what the various paths are meant to be.
Actually, I'm just about the CW being something that parties want to take to end game content. CWs are simply not wanted. We're 3rd rate DPS and 2nd rate control. Most players want to play their CW as DPS. I know. I used to get asked a lot about build advice many mods ago when people thought CW was a viable class. "DPS", almost every time, as in what you are required to queue as. The meta has dominated now for 3 modules, and you're either the nominated DPS, or a support supporting that DPS choice. Your thoughts about what the DEVs might do are all very well, but my point is that they've shown you they're not interested. Re-read my post. They're not interested in your ideas. Things are exactly the way that they want them to be, for CW. People have been making suggestions for 3 years that have been ignored. You need to work out if the DEVs don't have the capability, or they haven't had the time, or they simply don't want to. What my post does is to show you why the answer is that they clearly don't want to, and have been happy with CW being unwanted since mod 12.
I keep hearing how great GF is as a DPS class. I run my CW as a MoF Opp in CoDG regularly and I run with GF DPS all the time. I am in the 2 AC, 2 OP group on my CW and never in the DPS group. This means I am not getting the DO buff, GF buff or the Templock buffs for dmg. Rarely am I not the 3rd or 2nd DPS. If I had the extra dmg buff I would probably be the 2nd or 1st DPS.
CW damage is good on bosses and fantastic on adds and I play my CW as an Opp build for SS and MoF. The Thaum build is atm worthless due to the changes from mod 13. The Thaum build needs some adjustments if it is to be the CW primary DPS build to be more effective for us.
I have 8 different loadouts but my Thaum builds are rarely used in content, it does little for the group or myself and when I do run as a Thaum, run time in latest content tends to be longer and more frustrating.
The only time I run my Thaum build is in CN or lower content.
I keep hearing how great GF is as a DPS class. I run my CW as a MoF Opp in CoDG regularly and I run with GF DPS all the time. I am in the 2 AC, 2 OP group on my CW and never in the DPS group. This means I am not getting the DO buff, GF buff or the Templock buffs for dmg. Rarely am I not the 3rd or 2nd DPS. If I had the extra dmg buff I would probably be the 2nd or 1st DPS.
All this implies is that you are good on your CW in that fight and that the other DPS are not as good. Remember that the main issue with CW is not that it somehow cannot DPS but that it is disadvantaged in that department when compared to similarly geared physical DPS played by similarly skilled people.
In our alliance we did a CoDG with 3 MoF's. One oppressor (yes not renegade) using Swath and CA in the buff group and two main dps oppressors running CP and CC. Run was done in 09:23 Min. That time included 1min on platform sorting buffs and exhalts and one missed skull. We only had one pull/push and skipped Acererak completely. The only faster runs I had was the period with TR's double debuff dipping SOD.
So best proof for the power of the MoF.
I know, when I am on my GWF running with good CW's, I better have my best game play out or they will wreck my GWF on the paingiver chart .
PzkwVI_Kingtiger - GWF
PMS-Extreme - Moffus Debuffos
Tiamat's Toyboy - OP
Rent-A-DC - 1 GMOP per 30 minutes
Officer at Civil Anarchy, Member of Fabled Alliance
I think the recent changes have been rough all around as a CW. The MOF build has made the SS obsolete almost completely!
By semi-normalising both their damage, the SS only starts to do slightly more damage at higher crit chances than before (at 85% or greater). However, the SS has less group utility compared to the MoF's debuffing. Since the CW has been relegated to largely a utility role in end-game parties, yes then you are correct, the SS is more or less obselete in these parties, except possibly for trash clearing, but the group would be able to clear them quickly anyhow.
There are a few CWs who I have seen who still do pretty good damage as primary DPS as a spellstorm mage. They are very few, and are usually BiS or near BiS. Of course, this is also when the party is fully buffing that CW. Interestingly, the SS also does better with a MoF in the party due to the addition of Rimefire to their output. However, it is arguable if a DPS of another class could have outperformed the CW in the same buffing party; this difference would probably be a matter of minutes or possibly seconds. While this difference seems marginal, people do take note. The CW also suffers from a lack of self-buffing compared to other classes, which make other classes look way better on paingiver, which people also notice. The CW also does not have any 'big shot attacks' which look impressive. Disintegrate or Ice Knife are probably our strongest 'one-shot' powers, but look comparatively lackluster compared to a well timed IBS, GW or SOD.
A large part of the view that SS mages are very weak now is probably a matter of perspective, but there is also some truth in it. Lesser geared wizards have suffered the most. Certain powers of ours also do not proc enchantments or artifact sets (Lostmauth and Orcus set funnily enough). See here for a complete list, and go to 'Bugs and Exceptions' and also view '3 Piece Set' (credit goes to Sharpedge @thefabricant for compiling this excellent resource). Right now, I think the CW is facing an image crisis as well, so to speak. They aren't viewed strong enough by a majority of the community compared to other classes, and the oppressor or renegade paths are not clearly understood by many. The Renegade was *the* path to take previously, when players were much weaker. However, now with people reaching maximum effective stat values (critical strike, armor penetration), and with healing needed to counter burst or constant damage, then the Chaotic magic procs have less value than before, with the exception of Chaotic Fury, which is random, compared the reliable proc of Controlled Momentum of the Oppressor. Other utilities which the Renegade may offer is Combat Advantage, but if another class in your party can do this, or you can achieve it with proper positioning, then there is little value to be had in it.
tldr; yes the SS is nearly obselete in most end-game parties, and the MoF build will almost always be seen as a support, as it improves all party members' output, rather than just its own.
Yea I think I agree. I don't think wizard's are ruined, but their not in a good place.
1st: Extend the Stacks that Arcane Mastery provides from 5 stacks out to 7 stacks at maximum.
2nd: Extend the Damage that Arcane Mastery provides per stack from 3% out to 4%.
3rd: Thaumaturge's Snap Freeze Feat. ▪ Update it so Cold based At-Wils & Encounters deal an additional 2/4/6/8/10% damage who ARE effected by chill. ╘ It's silly to have damage boost that's instantly negated cause most Cold powers add a stack.
It also be nice for Oppressor to focus on AoE Damage/Control, Thaumaturge more on Single Target Damage, and Renegade had a few more improved BUFFs over what they have now. But sadly those types of changes would take significantly more DEV time and likely wouldn't be fast or easy to implement; why I focus mostly on the first paragraph, and maybe the second.
I think however the Lightning changes greatly hurt Wizard's the most, despite they greatly benefit GWF and still multi-proc for them. It's interesting how most changes always seem to most often compliment or not hurt GWF.
I also find it interesting one of the few Arcane Weapon Enchantments we do have, the Elven Bronzewood, also benefit's GWF the most with their Mark. I mean it not only allows GWF to mark more target's, but also further increases their damage to marked target's in addition to their feat. Yet I find it interesting rarely do you see a GWF even use that Enchantment?
I honestly wish we had an Arcane Weapon Enchantment that for once focused their benefit mostly to Mage's!
I think Wizard's need a little more LOVE in the next MOD or 2, or a Weapon Enchantment that BUFFs Arcane Feats for Mages. It's what some are also discussing here:
@strathkin Bronzewood BiS for GWF also brilliant energy is very good I heard they are both at the same level dps wise. It's sad that you found out about it now every GWF is going to start using it. Extra 35% damage.
@strathkin Bronzewood BiS for GWF also brilliant energy is very good I heard they are both at the same level dps wise. It's sad that you found out about it now every GWF is going to start using it. Extra 35% damage. #Woke
Gotta make sure that the DCs you run with aren't running 3/3 in Cleanse, I hear Cleanse nerfs GWF DPS.
3
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
@strathkin Bronzewood BiS for GWF also brilliant energy is very good I heard they are both at the same level dps wise. It's sad that you found out about it now every GWF is going to start using it. Extra 35% damage.
Is it good on TR too? I'm thinking that if I'll mark like GWF, I'll DPS like GWF! Fear my Great Rogue Fighter, plebs!
@strathkin Bronzewood BiS for GWF also brilliant energy is very good I heard they are both at the same level dps wise. It's sad that you found out about it now every GWF is going to start using it. Extra 35% damage.
I thought you comment was funny - simply because most GWF that I know are Destroyer, do in fact have the Feat in the lower Path, for Marked Target's to gain a damage boost. So I'm always surprised we don't see many more GWF with Bronzewood Elven Weapon Enchantments! Still it seems most currently prefer Lighting either cause of the Multi-Proc (they at least still recieve) bringing everyone to their Weapon Master Strike--to swiftly take them out! Or several others prefer Feytouched it seems?
Note: while some values change slightly based on the Class this was taken from a GWF:
An Unparalleled Bronzewood tooltip: 31% Arcane damage + 18% Encounter & At-Wils + 8% to you and every party member; all while you also receive 12% less damage. So that's a 26% damage for you alone & realize if you do have the Mark Feat like most Destroyers do; it extends how many targets get marked, in addition to the extra damage the mark feat provides above & beyond...
An Unparalleled Feytouched tooltip: 24% Psychic damage + siphon's 20% damage converted into 20% more for you; but also extends out to a 3 target AoE. But doesn't necessarily help you if it's just the boss...
But I digress - got to get back to my Love of Wizard's... Hoping maybe they'll at least extend Arcane Stacks out to 7; or perhaps increase damage per stack to 4/5%. I mean that's the very least they could do - it takes a while to build up your Arcane Stacks; and if your not paying attention can quickly loose them all.
Ok now jokes aside, The bronzewood enchant is a debuff not a buff enchant so it won't give you 18% in a group. And the feat that gives 15% damage to marked targets doesn't stack with other marks as long as you have 1 mark it will work. Second of all You are looking at the tooltip values scaled from your stats Unparalleled bronzewood is 14% of your damage. And no the mark doesn't work with the feat it's not even the same icon and effect. The only reason why GWF is good in aoe is because of bugs with lightning with arcs proccing aura of courage when procced from weapon master strike which makes it much better in aoe than what it's supposed to. Now before you assume I didn't report it. I did, in the october bugfix thread but it didn't get fixed. And also feytouched doesn't stack up to 3x giving you 60% if that's what you mean.
You can only Mark a target once no more, I did however say, "...if you do have the Mark Feat like most Destroyers do; it extends how many targets get marked!" So if you use Darking Shout to Mark 1, 2, or 3 target's in front of you; Bronzewood as you hit any additional targets can mark new target's, or at least refresh the timers of those already marked. It will never add more than one mark per enemy, but more ways to mark a target, or to do extra damage to them mostly benefits GWF. I mean that's a rather odd combo for an Arcane Enchantment since it doesn't help Mage's that much.
Still - the Enchant does buff party damage by up to 8% and you by up to 26% (for Encounters & At-Wils) to marked targets; so add in the 15% damage boost the feat gives that extends it to 41%. The debuff I think also only applies directly to you taking 12% less damage, but I don't believe it also extends that to the party. It just seems clear by the description it does not - but not all tooltips are entirely accurate.
But I've digressed this topic. *blush*
I only met to add that I find it strange the one Elven Arcane Weapon Enchantment, is really designed to mostly benefit Great Weapons Fighters, is rarely if ever used by them and it's sad the only Arcane Weapon Enchant isn't more focused on Mage's. Just wished they'd add a Arcane Weapon Enchant that better BUFFED our actual Mage's Arcane abilities.
Perhaps a Celestial Enchantment of some sort for the Lighter less Dark Mage's that is. My attempt to get it back to being about Wizard's as this is the Library.
You can only Mark a target once no more, I did however say, "...if you do have the Mark Feat like most Destroyers do; it extends how many targets get marked!" So if you use Darking Shout to Mark 1, 2, or 3 target's in front of you; Bronzewood as you hit any additional targets can mark new target's, or at least refresh the timers of those already marked. It will never add more than one mark per enemy, but more ways to mark a target, or to do extra damage to them mostly benefits GWF. I mean that's a rather odd combo for an Arcane Enchantment since it doesn't help Mage's that much.
Still - the Enchant does buff party damage by up to 8% and you by up to 26% (for Encounters & At-Wils) to marked targets; so add in the 15% damage boost the feat gives that extends it to 41%. The debuff I think also only applies directly to you taking 12% less damage, but I don't believe it also extends that to the party. It just seems clear by the description it does not - but not all tooltips are entirely accurate.
No, It's a debuff enchant like all other enchants such as plague fire, frost. It doesn't buff your damage the 18% is a self debuff and the 6% extra damage your allies do is the debuff in theory without considering diminishing returns you would be doing 24% more damage but it's nowhere near that amount. The mark of the bronzewood enchantment like I once again said does in no shape or form work with the Sentinel feat on bottom tree I jumped to preview just to test it since you said it. the 12% incoming damage reduction could be true though.
You can only Mark a target once no more, I did however say, "...if you do have the Mark Feat like most Destroyers do; it extends how many targets get marked!" So if you use Darking Shout to Mark 1, 2, or 3 target's in front of you; Bronzewood as you hit any additional targets can mark new target's, or at least refresh the timers of those already marked. It will never add more than one mark per enemy, but more ways to mark a target, or to do extra damage to them mostly benefits GWF. I mean that's a rather odd combo for an Arcane Enchantment since it doesn't help Mage's that much.
Still - the Enchant does buff party damage by up to 8% and you by up to 26% (for Encounters & At-Wils) to marked targets; so add in the 15% damage boost the feat gives that extends it to 41%. The debuff I think also only applies directly to you taking 12% less damage, but I don't believe it also extends that to the party. It just seems clear by the description it does not - but not all tooltips are entirely accurate.
No, It's a debuff enchant like all other enchants such as plague fire, frost. It doesn't buff your damage the 18% is a self debuff and the 6% extra damage your allies do is the debuff in theory without considering diminishing returns you would be doing 24% more damage but it's nowhere near that amount. The mark of the bronzewood enchantment like I once again said does in no shape or form work with the Sentinel feat on bottom tree I jumped to preview just to test it since you said it. the 12% incoming damage reduction could be true though.
Well man talk about an Enchantment that really needs an Overhaul - at some point I'll jump on preview to test it as well.
My Corellon look what the TOOLTIP says for Unparalleled Bronzewood Enchantment for GWF:
Weapon Enhancement Slot: Deals an extra 31% weapon damage as Arcane damage.
Targets struck by your encounter powers become marked. While marked, your at will and encounter powers do 18% more damage to the target. You and your allies also do 8% more damage and target's that are market also do 12% less damage to you. The duration of the Mark is 10 seconds and it has a 20 second cooldown.
-- I mean just reading that above is typed exactly as it's stated in the TOOLTIP. Now it's possible Sentinel - Powerful Challenge isn't stacking as it should with Bronzewood - but I'd have to do further testing on Preview to see what/where the gain's or issue are? Still it's been some time since they promised Bronzewood would be later reviewed so who knows maybe that's still coming?
Regardless: I wish they'd revise the Elven Arcane Bronzewood Weapon Enchantment to replace / fix the claimed Mark based damage boost. I mean I don't even think any GWF use the enchantment - and why should a Arcane Enchantment be mostly geared for GWF's they already got lots of great choices.
I'd welcome two new Enchantment choices for Mage's though:
Celestial Arcane ........... Weapon Enchantment: ╘ offers Mage's who were practicing the Lighter side of Arcana some Celestial help in defeating Evil.
Dark Arcane …….. Weapon Enchantment: ╘ that appealed to the Darker Mage's who resort to any means to vanquish a Foe at any cost.
Bronzewood is a good enchantment for a DC that wants to further buff/debuff the group. I have seen some GF Tac use it as well and the same can be said for some CWs but other than those 3 classes I never seen any other class use the Bronzewood enchantment; in fact, just because the enchantment buffs other a GWF would not use it. I mean it is the same reason most GWF don't run battlefury, it buffs other team members. Most GWF and TR are selfish DPS and only care about how much damage they are pushing out without realizing that buffing the group helps them get content done faster, but that isn't what this post is all about.
CWs do need to be adjusted.
Oppressor with its buff is far superior to the Thaum path. The renegade path with the ability to provide CA to the group and offer Chaotic Fury makes it superior to Thaum build for group content and when soloing to get CA.
Thaum build was the go to and having the glitched offhand with the lighting was the CW best way to produce damage. Since the enchantment update and fix to the offhand CW best way for damage is using Fey enchantment and CP offhand now, but the damage drop from the offhand fix and enchantments hurt many CWs that we are now a 2nd rate DPS when compared to our prior ability to do damage, that is if you used Lighting and the glitched SS offhand feature.
I did neither so for me the changes to mod 13 were improvements but the Thaum path is pathetic and needs some rework if that is suppose to be our pure DPS path.
I would modify the captsone feat of Thaum to increase the damage % for arcane / chill stacks, Storm Spell and Smolder base damage. I would also I would also modify a few of the Renegade feats so that a Thaum / Renegade build could pick up Nightmare Wizardy and be a Thaum/Renegade, making this build great for bosses.
The problem with almost all updates that I have seen is that one class/enchantment always seems to be glitched or over powered and needs adjustment. When the devs do the adjustment the class or enchantment are so bad that it requires further changes, see CW, SW, Lighting, Fey Touched, etc...
At this point I really the devs take a step back and look at each class individually. I enoyed this game in 2016 because the devs were doing class balancing. 2017 when they stopped that it really took the fun out of playing due to the devs not taking the time and going through each class and properly balancing them and trying to fix each class.
I do get into content all the time on my CW but only as a buffer, never as a pure on DPS and the reason for that is, CW should not be a pure DPS atm because there is no need for us to be a pure DPS since our buff paths offers better utility than being a pure DPS.
Bronzewood is a good enchantment for a DC that wants to further buff/debuff the group. I have seen some GF Tac use it as well and the same can be said for some CWs but other than those 3 classes I never seen any other class use the Bronzewood enchantment; in fact, just because the enchantment buffs other a GWF would not use it. I mean it is the same reason most GWF don't run battlefury, it buffs other team members. Most GWF and TR are selfish DPS and only care about how much damage they are pushing out without realizing that buffing the group helps them get content done faster, but that isn't what this post is all about.
There are a couple peculiar ideas here...
Bronzewood is a debuff enchant (both enemy incoming and outgoing damage), but it is not a buff enchant. It's similar to frost except worse in most ways. It does have the best visual effect out of any wep enchant, which is why it still have one.
But per a discussion elsewhere, DCs get hurt from using proc enchants because they mess with FotG and Repurpose Soul feats. If you're going to use something other than Dread or Vorp, you're probably best off using pf for easier ByS spreading.
Also, almost every GWF I run with (and when I run mine) uses Battlefury. It gives a bigger buff to you than it does to the rest of the team, so if you don't use it because it's "team focused" rest assured you're still coming out on top. But again, if you don't run it then perhaps you don't understand GWF class very well (it's virtually a mandatory power in any competent high-end setup).
I'm not sure there is much to be done if you keep running into people who have terrible misconceptions about the class. CW is not in a bad place right now in my personal experience (I get ping'd asking to bring my CW to content on occasion... way more than pre-Mod14). So as the point has been made, it's more about where you're looking.
Bronzewood is a good enchantment for a DC that wants to further buff/debuff the group. I have seen some GF Tac use it as well and the same can be said for some CWs but other than those 3 classes I never seen any other class use the Bronzewood enchantment; in fact, just because the enchantment buffs other a GWF would not use it. I mean it is the same reason most GWF don't run battlefury, it buffs other team members. Most GWF and TR are selfish DPS and only care about how much damage they are pushing out without realizing that buffing the group helps them get content done faster, but that isn't what this post is all about.
There are a couple peculiar ideas here...
Bronzewood is a debuff enchant (both enemy incoming and outgoing damage), but it is not a buff enchant. It's similar to frost except worse in most ways. It does have the best visual effect out of any wep enchant, which is why it still have one.
But per a discussion elsewhere, DCs get hurt from using proc enchants because they mess with FotG and Repurpose Soul feats. If you're going to use something other than Dread or Vorp, you're probably best off using pf for easier ByS spreading.
Also, almost every GWF I run with (and when I run mine) uses Battlefury. It gives a bigger buff to you than it does to the rest of the team, so if you don't use it because it's "team focused" rest assured you're still coming out on top. But again, if you don't run it then perhaps you don't understand GWF class very well (it's virtually a mandatory power in any competent high-end setup).
I'm not sure there is much to be done if you keep running into people who have terrible misconceptions about the class. CW is not in a bad place right now in my personal experience (I get ping'd asking to bring my CW to content on occasion... way more than pre-Mod14). So as the point has been made, it's more about where you're looking.
Weapon enchantments and class feats (not all) but there is enough change each mod that what is BiS today has a high probably to change. My points on the bronzewood weapon enchantment is due to the fact that it is more for the support roles than a DPS role and since GWF are DPS they should forgo the Bronzewood and pick something that will boost their damage.
As for the dread, it also has a weapon proc on in the form of necrotic damage. Now it would not surprise me if this did not work given all the bugs and glitches that NW has. Since I don't have a dread to test I cannot test this out.
I have a GWF and always have BF as one of my encounters and have so since well I created the character and reached end game. As for my comment about GWF, that is from my experience on PS4. I even got booted by a GWF forming a group when I aked if he would be running BF.
As for my CW, I get into all content I want just fine. I just don't play my CW as much as I use to due lack of time I have to play NW and if I do play my main is run first. As for the CW current situation; I never said we are in a horrible place. My comment were about tweaking Thaum path to make it stronger as a DPS class, get it closer to HR and GWF damage.
It is possible to view the CW class as a support class, not a DPS class, and adjust expectations accordingly.
CW isn't a particularly good support class, so that view doesn't do it many favors, either.
I won't go point-by-point on everything that followed, but there absolutely is a reason to call out CW's issues and hope for improvement. The problem isn't that CW can't get the job done or that a skilled player can't do acceptable DPS; it's that it's still the worst single-target DPS class in a game that heavily prioritizes single-target boss encounters, and it's one of the worst in the buff/debuff role.
Players care about efficiency in farming, and selecting CW as your main DPS in an end-game scenario is inefficient compared to bringing a similarly skilled and equipped player of any physical DPS class or even a non-exploiting SW. Just because a good DPS CW will beat a bad TR, GWF, or what-have-you doesn't mean that CW as a class is competitive.
In any case, the bit about "Only Skilled People Need Apply" is a nice bit of whimsy, but the fact is that skill alone doesn't save this class from the bottom tier of DPS and doesn't make it a support class truly competitive with Templock or with DO DC.
Skill definitively save the CW from bottom tier dps. It's just not enough to bring it to top tier dps.
As for debuffing, CWs at least bring very strong dps when speccing opp support (for a support, that is). So there is that. It's actually a feature that makes CWs wanted in CR since you want dps to not be tied to a single player for the first and third fight.
> @smulch said: > Skill definitively save the CW from bottom tier dps. It's just not enough to bring it to top tier dps. > > As for debuffing, CWs at least bring very strong dps when speccing opp support (for a support, that is). So there is that. It's actually a feature that makes CWs wanted in CR since you want dps to not be tied to a single player for the first and third fight.
The concept of tiers assumes equivalent skill. CW winds up at the bottom of this hypothetical chart if you assume such while comparing it to its counterparts.
CW isn’t a useless support; it’s not as good as the other options, though. This is an issue when CW isn’t close to top tier in any role, much less its primary one.
> Skill definitively save the CW from bottom tier dps. It's just not enough to bring it to top tier dps.
>
> As for debuffing, CWs at least bring very strong dps when speccing opp support (for a support, that is). So there is that. It's actually a feature that makes CWs wanted in CR since you want dps to not be tied to a single player for the first and third fight.
The concept of tiers assumes equivalent skill. CW winds up at the bottom of this hypothetical chart if you assume such while comparing it to its counterparts.
CW isn’t a useless support; it’s not as good as the other options, though. This is an issue when CW isn’t close to top tier in any role, much less its primary one.
The problem with the CW is that the class was designed around controlling and given comments by the devs it seems as if controlling in the game going forward is not really a thing they want to work on making the CW primary design worth less than it was when the game first came out.
Now comparing a CW to a GWF, HR, SW, etc... the CW is at the bottom of the list.
Now compare the CW buffing ability to a HR or SW and once again the CW is at the bottom of the list. CW Support build is great in 10 man content but outside of that the CW is not nearly as good as other classes for support or damage. Though a well built Opp will out damage a well built Templock, but when it comes to being able to buff and produce damage the HR is where it is at.
The devs need to adjust the CW so it buffs are closer to the buffing specs of a Templock. The damage of the Opp build is fine where it just needs Control Momentum to be buffed up to be buffed up to 15% or 20% vs the 10% it now does. The Renegade path is the true buffing path, the devs need to adjust the capstone. Instead of it being Chaos Magic with 3 chance of proc items, it should be up to 3 of the four possible proc based on the type of stacks or attack on the enemies.
1- Each Arcane Stack = 3% damage buff 2 - Each Chill Stack = 1% defense and damage reduction buff 3 - Smolder/Electrical Attack = Heals allies for 50% of the CW weapon damage
As for the DPS side, it needs some tweaks to be more inline with the other DPS classes.
It is possible to view the CW class as a support class, not a DPS class, and adjust expectations accordingly.
CW isn't a particularly good support class, so that view doesn't do it many favors, either.
I won't go point-by-point on everything that followed, but there absolutely is a reason to call out CW's issues and hope for improvement. The problem isn't that CW can't get the job done or that a skilled player can't do acceptable DPS; it's that it's still the worst single-target DPS class in a game that heavily prioritizes single-target boss encounters, and it's one of the worst in the buff/debuff role.
Players care about efficiency in farming, and selecting CW as your main DPS in an end-game scenario is inefficient compared to bringing a similarly skilled and equipped player of any physical DPS class or even a non-exploiting SW. Just because a good DPS CW will beat a bad TR, GWF, or what-have-you doesn't mean that CW as a class is competitive.
In any case, the bit about "Only Skilled People Need Apply" is a nice bit of whimsy, but the fact is that skill alone doesn't save this class from the bottom tier of DPS and doesn't make it a support class truly competitive with Templock or with DO DC.
The problem with the CW is not that the support is not wanted or needed. It is just the debuff cap makes bringing along a CW not a priority. If there was no debuff cap, the CW would be a great addition to any 5 or 10 man group for added buffing/debuffing.
I wish the devs would modify Swath from a debuff to a straight out buff. If you have swath slotted it should be a 6% damage buff per a rank and a % increase to Smolder damage. This would make MoF Buffers just as good as a DO DC and Templocks.
Comments
Oppressor path provides CW the ability to play as a hybrid DPS buffer. We can play as a SS AoE build where we can provide some buffing utility. On bosses, switching over to MoF we can futher enchance our ability to help the group by debuffing and still do good damage due to the extra DoT MoF and stronger single target abilities that the MoF path offers.
Renegade is a great build to have for those days you end up soloing content and are using the Chult Tiger as your companion or days when you do a RQ and end up with a really low IL group that needs some extra stats.
The Thaum path is there for those players that only want to do damage and not help the group out in any form or way. This path damage wise is a bit higher than the Opp but it offers not group utility. Maybe only to be used if the group already has another CW in the group.
As for damage vs. other class, the game needs to continue balancing classes out. I honestly think other classes should be adjusted to the damage level of the CW Thaum build. That build seems right where it should be, whereas other DPS clases seems to kill stuff a bit to fast. I noticed this with my GWF and my HR. Slight adjustments would make these other classes damage closer without taking to much away from them.
The thing is though, what does Cryptic have as a plan for this game and class balancing long term? That will determine if any thing will change for the CW or other classes. I mean first thing first fix bugs than balance the classes afterwards.
I run Opp with 5/5 elemental reinforcement. Predominatly MoF, but a little SS too farming trash, doing influence etc. Trans Fey/Bark
It’s fun when I’m soloing.. for the most part..but as soon groups start forming its apparent how useless I am. More of a bad joke, than an actual toon, when out with a gwf or rogue if our IL's are within a few thousand. That gap is sadly nowhere near close.. Double digit percentage points minimum..
As for variety..well that just makes me scratch my head. Renegade and thuam are completly useless. Full stop. There is no real control in the game, nor a reason to have it. So, whether we can, or can’t, is irrelevant. Frankly, until I have an ae mez and single target charm, the conversation about control is moot. So variety = is go ss to make farming trash mobs for hunt spawns marginally faster, or go slightly slower with the trash, and be able to bring down the rex’s a bit easier. Cause really. Farming smops is all your going to be doing because no one wants you, and who could blame them. Heck, I don't even want me..
You say fix the bugs first and it begs a bit more explanation. Are other classes posting these totals through sploits I’m unaware of? Apart from buglock and the sod rogue thing(isn’t making it to Xbox anyway). I can’t think of any. Sure buglock but meh, kinda beside the point. I’m just not sure @mebengalsfan#9264 of the bugs your referring to which should come before working on Cw’s as a class? Because right now we are pretty much the living breathing embodiment of swirling the bowl.
Actually, I'm just about the CW being something that parties want to take to end game content.
CWs are simply not wanted. We're 3rd rate DPS and 2nd rate control.
Most players want to play their CW as DPS. I know. I used to get asked a lot about build advice many mods ago when people thought CW was a viable class. "DPS", almost every time, as in what you are required to queue as.
The meta has dominated now for 3 modules, and you're either the nominated DPS, or a support supporting that
DPS choice.
Your thoughts about what the DEVs might do are all very well, but my point is that they've shown you they're not interested. Re-read my post. They're not interested in your ideas. Things are exactly the way that they want them to be, for CW.
People have been making suggestions for 3 years that have been ignored. You need to work out if the DEVs don't have the capability, or they haven't had the time, or they simply don't want to. What my post does is to show you why the answer is that they clearly don't want to, and have been happy with CW being unwanted since mod 12.
CW damage is good on bosses and fantastic on adds and I play my CW as an Opp build for SS and MoF. The Thaum build is atm worthless due to the changes from mod 13. The Thaum build needs some adjustments if it is to be the CW primary DPS build to be more effective for us.
I have 8 different loadouts but my Thaum builds are rarely used in content, it does little for the group or myself and when I do run as a Thaum, run time in latest content tends to be longer and more frustrating.
The only time I run my Thaum build is in CN or lower content.
They are pretty much the “man-maker,” for me.
All this implies is that you are good on your CW in that fight and that the other DPS are not as good. Remember that the main issue with CW is not that it somehow cannot DPS but that it is disadvantaged in that department when compared to similarly geared physical DPS played by similarly skilled people.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
So best proof for the power of the MoF.
I know, when I am on my GWF running with good CW's, I better have my best game play out or they will wreck my GWF on the paingiver chart .
1st: Extend the Stacks that Arcane Mastery provides from 5 stacks out to 7 stacks at maximum.
2nd: Extend the Damage that Arcane Mastery provides per stack from 3% out to 4%.
3rd: Thaumaturge's Snap Freeze Feat.
▪ Update it so Cold based At-Wils & Encounters deal an additional 2/4/6/8/10% damage who ARE effected by chill.
╘ It's silly to have damage boost that's instantly negated cause most Cold powers add a stack.
It also be nice for Oppressor to focus on AoE Damage/Control, Thaumaturge more on Single Target Damage, and Renegade had a few more improved BUFFs over what they have now. But sadly those types of changes would take significantly more DEV time and likely wouldn't be fast or easy to implement; why I focus mostly on the first paragraph, and maybe the second.
I think however the Lightning changes greatly hurt Wizard's the most, despite they greatly benefit GWF and still multi-proc for them. It's interesting how most changes always seem to most often compliment or not hurt GWF.
I also find it interesting one of the few Arcane Weapon Enchantments we do have, the Elven Bronzewood, also benefit's GWF the most with their Mark. I mean it not only allows GWF to mark more target's, but also further increases their damage to marked target's in addition to their feat. Yet I find it interesting rarely do you see a GWF even use that Enchantment?
I honestly wish we had an Arcane Weapon Enchantment that for once focused their benefit mostly to Mage's!
I think Wizard's need a little more LOVE in the next MOD or 2, or a Weapon Enchantment that BUFFs Arcane Feats for Mages. It's what some are also discussing here:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1241745/ideas-for-cw-rework-balance
Note: while some values change slightly based on the Class this was taken from a GWF:
An Unparalleled Bronzewood tooltip: 31% Arcane damage + 18% Encounter & At-Wils + 8% to you and every party member; all while you also receive 12% less damage. So that's a 26% damage for you alone & realize if you do have the Mark Feat like most Destroyers do; it extends how many targets get marked, in addition to the extra damage the mark feat provides above & beyond...
An Unparalleled Feytouched tooltip: 24% Psychic damage + siphon's 20% damage converted into 20% more for you; but also extends out to a 3 target AoE. But doesn't necessarily help you if it's just the boss...
But I digress - got to get back to my Love of Wizard's... Hoping maybe they'll at least extend Arcane Stacks out to 7; or perhaps increase damage per stack to 4/5%. I mean that's the very least they could do - it takes a while to build up your Arcane Stacks; and if your not paying attention can quickly loose them all.
You can only Mark a target once no more, I did however say, "...if you do have the Mark Feat like most Destroyers do; it extends how many targets get marked!" So if you use Darking Shout to Mark 1, 2, or 3 target's in front of you; Bronzewood as you hit any additional targets can mark new target's, or at least refresh the timers of those already marked. It will never add more than one mark per enemy, but more ways to mark a target, or to do extra damage to them mostly benefits GWF. I mean that's a rather odd combo for an Arcane Enchantment since it doesn't help Mage's that much.
Still - the Enchant does buff party damage by up to 8% and you by up to 26% (for Encounters & At-Wils) to marked targets; so add in the 15% damage boost the feat gives that extends it to 41%. The debuff I think also only applies directly to you taking 12% less damage, but I don't believe it also extends that to the party. It just seems clear by the description it does not - but not all tooltips are entirely accurate.
But I've digressed this topic. *blush*
I only met to add that I find it strange the one Elven Arcane Weapon Enchantment, is really designed to mostly benefit Great Weapons Fighters, is rarely if ever used by them and it's sad the only Arcane Weapon Enchant isn't more focused on Mage's. Just wished they'd add a Arcane Weapon Enchant that better BUFFED our actual Mage's Arcane abilities.
Perhaps a Celestial Enchantment of some sort for the Lighter less Dark Mage's that is. My attempt to get it back to being about Wizard's as this is the Library.
My Corellon look what the TOOLTIP says for Unparalleled Bronzewood Enchantment for GWF:
Weapon Enhancement Slot: Deals an extra 31% weapon damage as Arcane damage.
Targets struck by your encounter powers become marked. While marked, your at will and encounter powers do 18% more damage to the target. You and your allies also do 8% more damage and target's that are market also do 12% less damage to you. The duration of the Mark is 10 seconds and it has a 20 second cooldown.
--
I mean just reading that above is typed exactly as it's stated in the TOOLTIP. Now it's possible Sentinel - Powerful Challenge isn't stacking as it should with Bronzewood - but I'd have to do further testing on Preview to see what/where the gain's or issue are? Still it's been some time since they promised Bronzewood would be later reviewed so who knows maybe that's still coming?
Regardless: I wish they'd revise the Elven Arcane Bronzewood Weapon Enchantment to replace / fix the claimed Mark based damage boost. I mean I don't even think any GWF use the enchantment - and why should a Arcane Enchantment be mostly geared for GWF's they already got lots of great choices.
I'd welcome two new Enchantment choices for Mage's though:
Celestial Arcane ........... Weapon Enchantment:
╘ offers Mage's who were practicing the Lighter side of Arcana some Celestial help in defeating Evil.
Dark Arcane …….. Weapon Enchantment:
╘ that appealed to the Darker Mage's who resort to any means to vanquish a Foe at any cost.
The Battle between
CWs do need to be adjusted.
Oppressor with its buff is far superior to the Thaum path. The renegade path with the ability to provide CA to the group and offer Chaotic Fury makes it superior to Thaum build for group content and when soloing to get CA.
Thaum build was the go to and having the glitched offhand with the lighting was the CW best way to produce damage. Since the enchantment update and fix to the offhand CW best way for damage is using Fey enchantment and CP offhand now, but the damage drop from the offhand fix and enchantments hurt many CWs that we are now a 2nd rate DPS when compared to our prior ability to do damage, that is if you used Lighting and the glitched SS offhand feature.
I did neither so for me the changes to mod 13 were improvements but the Thaum path is pathetic and needs some rework if that is suppose to be our pure DPS path.
I would modify the captsone feat of Thaum to increase the damage % for arcane / chill stacks, Storm Spell and Smolder base damage. I would also I would also modify a few of the Renegade feats so that a Thaum / Renegade build could pick up Nightmare Wizardy and be a Thaum/Renegade, making this build great for bosses.
The problem with almost all updates that I have seen is that one class/enchantment always seems to be glitched or over powered and needs adjustment. When the devs do the adjustment the class or enchantment are so bad that it requires further changes, see CW, SW, Lighting, Fey Touched, etc...
At this point I really the devs take a step back and look at each class individually. I enoyed this game in 2016 because the devs were doing class balancing. 2017 when they stopped that it really took the fun out of playing due to the devs not taking the time and going through each class and properly balancing them and trying to fix each class.
I do get into content all the time on my CW but only as a buffer, never as a pure on DPS and the reason for that is, CW should not be a pure DPS atm because there is no need for us to be a pure DPS since our buff paths offers better utility than being a pure DPS.
Bronzewood is a debuff enchant (both enemy incoming and outgoing damage), but it is not a buff enchant. It's similar to frost except worse in most ways. It does have the best visual effect out of any wep enchant, which is why it still have one.
But per a discussion elsewhere, DCs get hurt from using proc enchants because they mess with FotG and Repurpose Soul feats. If you're going to use something other than Dread or Vorp, you're probably best off using pf for easier ByS spreading.
Also, almost every GWF I run with (and when I run mine) uses Battlefury. It gives a bigger buff to you than it does to the rest of the team, so if you don't use it because it's "team focused" rest assured you're still coming out on top. But again, if you don't run it then perhaps you don't understand GWF class very well (it's virtually a mandatory power in any competent high-end setup).
I'm not sure there is much to be done if you keep running into people who have terrible misconceptions about the class. CW is not in a bad place right now in my personal experience (I get ping'd asking to bring my CW to content on occasion... way more than pre-Mod14). So as the point has been made, it's more about where you're looking.
As for the dread, it also has a weapon proc on in the form of necrotic damage. Now it would not surprise me if this did not work given all the bugs and glitches that NW has. Since I don't have a dread to test I cannot test this out.
I have a GWF and always have BF as one of my encounters and have so since well I created the character and reached end game.
As for my comment about GWF, that is from my experience on PS4. I even got booted by a GWF forming a group when I aked if he would be running BF.
As for my CW, I get into all content I want just fine. I just don't play my CW as much as I use to due lack of time I have to play NW and if I do play my main is run first. As for the CW current situation; I never said we are in a horrible place. My comment were about tweaking Thaum path to make it stronger as a DPS class, get it closer to HR and GWF damage.
CW isn't a particularly good support class, so that view doesn't do it many favors, either.
I won't go point-by-point on everything that followed, but there absolutely is a reason to call out CW's issues and hope for improvement. The problem isn't that CW can't get the job done or that a skilled player can't do acceptable DPS; it's that it's still the worst single-target DPS class in a game that heavily prioritizes single-target boss encounters, and it's one of the worst in the buff/debuff role.
Players care about efficiency in farming, and selecting CW as your main DPS in an end-game scenario is inefficient compared to bringing a similarly skilled and equipped player of any physical DPS class or even a non-exploiting SW. Just because a good DPS CW will beat a bad TR, GWF, or what-have-you doesn't mean that CW as a class is competitive.
In any case, the bit about "Only Skilled People Need Apply" is a nice bit of whimsy, but the fact is that skill alone doesn't save this class from the bottom tier of DPS and doesn't make it a support class truly competitive with Templock or with DO DC.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
As for debuffing, CWs at least bring very strong dps when speccing opp support (for a support, that is). So there is that. It's actually a feature that makes CWs wanted in CR since you want dps to not be tied to a single player for the first and third fight.
> Skill definitively save the CW from bottom tier dps. It's just not enough to bring it to top tier dps.
>
> As for debuffing, CWs at least bring very strong dps when speccing opp support (for a support, that is). So there is that. It's actually a feature that makes CWs wanted in CR since you want dps to not be tied to a single player for the first and third fight.
The concept of tiers assumes equivalent skill. CW winds up at the bottom of this hypothetical chart if you assume such while comparing it to its counterparts.
CW isn’t a useless support; it’s not as good as the other options, though. This is an issue when CW isn’t close to top tier in any role, much less its primary one.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Now comparing a CW to a GWF, HR, SW, etc... the CW is at the bottom of the list.
Now compare the CW buffing ability to a HR or SW and once again the CW is at the bottom of the list. CW Support build is great in 10 man content but outside of that the CW is not nearly as good as other classes for support or damage. Though a well built Opp will out damage a well built Templock, but when it comes to being able to buff and produce damage the HR is where it is at.
The devs need to adjust the CW so it buffs are closer to the buffing specs of a Templock. The damage of the Opp build is fine where it just needs Control Momentum to be buffed up to be buffed up to 15% or 20% vs the 10% it now does. The Renegade path is the true buffing path, the devs need to adjust the capstone. Instead of it being Chaos Magic with 3 chance of proc items, it should be up to 3 of the four possible proc based on the type of stacks or attack on the enemies.
1- Each Arcane Stack = 3% damage buff
2 - Each Chill Stack = 1% defense and damage reduction buff
3 - Smolder/Electrical Attack = Heals allies for 50% of the CW weapon damage
As for the DPS side, it needs some tweaks to be more inline with the other DPS classes.
I wish the devs would modify Swath from a debuff to a straight out buff. If you have swath slotted it should be a 6% damage buff per a rank and a % increase to Smolder damage. This would make MoF Buffers just as good as a DO DC and Templocks.