Improved loot from chests

marv700

I seem to recall that the reason the devs changed the mechanics look before you use a key for a chest was that they were going to improve dungeon chest loot so that you would be happy using a key. I've run a lot of TONG and opened both chests and have not gotten anything out of the chests that makes me happy to use a zen store key. Am I missing something or did they sell us a bill of goods? What purpose does this "extra" chest serve if no one wants to bother opening it?

elrondknight

It does give you an extra chance at the best loot in the dungeon. Most areas have one item that is optimal, that many players run over and over to get. Opening the 2nd chest doubles your chances.

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greywynd

Not at all. The loot tables did change. There are chances for companions and whatnot from the chests that weren't available prior.

namelesshero347

Yup. You can get companions, mounts, and artifacts from chests now. This weekend, my TR got an unbound purple red heart from the eToS chest, two nights in a row. Gotta love stuck RNG results when it works in your favor.

Definitely the +5 ring drops got scaled back early. The only four +5 rings I ever got across four toons were in the first week of the key change. I haven't gotten any since that week. That was the most opportune time to get the +5 ring of your choice.

marv700

Ok agreed the loot table has changed as I've gotten a few artifacts, companion upgrade tokens as well as companions, however, over 30 dungeon runs, having opened extra chests in 15 tong runs, the value of the items received did not make up for the cost of the keys (even including the loot from the 30 regular chests).

The problem has always been their drop rates. If i'm paying a premium for a key, I would expect to come out at even over 15 runs. I'm being realistic, I don't expect them to let anyone "profit".

scathias

so if you spent 1 key you would expect that the drop value was worth that one key? what happens then when everyone gets their key value every time? the market for those items that drop starts falling because there is way more supply than demand, and suddenly your chest contents are not worth as much anymore, which is exactly what has happened with the companion and artifact and mount drops in the dungeon chests.

If you are worried about wasting AD and zen buying those keys to open that chest then don't open them anymore. The main value of the second chest is to tempt you into feeling like you are lucky, it will contain extra seals of the brave which is something you might want once in a while but over all it isn't worth it.

marv700

Not 1 to 1, but over 30 chests, I would expect to at least come out even (including the value of the loot from the regular chest).

If you recall, we were able to "peek" into the chests and decline it if the loot was HAMSTER. Their rationale for "fixing" it so you have to use up a key, was that they were going to make the loot so good you would "want" to use a key. I'm just saying, the loot isn't even close to being worth the key. Correct, I won't be bothering with keys. I don't believe their design goal as they stated it was achieved. If that really was their goal.

greywynd

You won't break even. By simple matter of the player base sets the AD value of anything you might get that is unbound. From the game's point of view you had a key and you got bonus from the 2nd chest. Books are balanced.

marv700

Fair enough, but how about something like giving 50 seals of the brave (total is capped at 400 for the week anyway so this would just be a convenience) and perhaps a bound salvageable item salvageable for 20,000 AD. Again it wouldn't break their bank as there is the daily cap, it's bound so it's just a convenience to at least make you feel like you got some value out of the key.

Otherwise, what was the harm in letting folks peek before they use? With the current drop rates, I doubt many folks are using them.

greywynd

Because peeking was a bug that they finally got around to fixing. Chests aren't glass to see through first. Can't see what's inside unless you open the top.

preechr

Sorry but the concept of 5 adventurers slogging through a dungeon, killing hundreds of monsters and taking down really powerful Boss Monsters and walking away from that with nothing to show for it is just unrealistic.
Yeah, it's a fantasy game, and realism isn't what's going on, but if the cost of running the dungeon equals the reward of the dungeon, we are just killing things for the sake of it.... a little dark?
Chest loot should always have value... they just need to fix the economy so they can stop being so stingy with the rewards

santralafax

greywynd said:

Because peeking was a bug that they finally got around to fixing. Chests aren't glass to see through first. Can't see what's inside unless you open the top.

There was no bug. The game since its inception allowed you to look in the chest. It was a rules change. They suggested it was a "bug" when they decided to change it.

greywynd

Either way, being able to see what is inside before expending the key to open the chest makes no logical sense.

namelesshero347

Most likely an oversight that they finally decided to address when they were looking for new things to sell in the zen store

pitshade

Keys that you use 1 time and disappear don't make any sense either.

greywynd

Keys that open more than one lock on different chests, in different dungeons makes far less sense.

marv700

keys working on multiple chests, disappearing after 1 use, not being able to peek is all a sideshow. The real issue is that the loot in the free + paid chests put together are not appropriate for the level of difficulty and time spent in the various dungeons. They might as well change the graphics to make them look like garbage pails, because that is what they are.

The whole thread where they discussed loot centered around "we want to make loot good again". To me it's a complete fail.
Folks have to speed run dungeons, (used to do the peek), repeat over and over because it's all junk. Make the stuff bound to account, give us choices of gear for all classes, chances for coalescent wards (bound to account), whatever, just make it exciting and not the same stupid rings etc. etc. over and over.

araneax

greywynd said:

Keys that open more than one lock on different chests, in different dungeons makes far less sense.

Killing a boss in the hardest dungeon that exists and getting a peridot or nothing at all, since you passed your limit on seals
also makes no sense.

callumf

araneax said:

greywynd said:

Keys that open more than one lock on different chests, in different dungeons makes far less sense.

Killing a boss in the hardest dungeon that exists and getting a peridot or nothing at all, since you passed your limit on seals
also makes no sense.

This is the truth.

Surely that big bad boss monster would have something tucked away in his/her large war chest?

araneax

callumf#9018 said:

araneax said:

greywynd said:

Keys that open more than one lock on different chests, in different dungeons makes far less sense.

Killing a boss in the hardest dungeon that exists and getting a peridot or nothing at all, since you passed your limit on seals
also makes no sense.

This is the truth.

Surely that big bad boss monster would have something tucked away in his/her large war chest?

I am not a greedy person.
I would be happy with a fashion item.
Or a dye. ( or a legendary mount )
jk jk

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greywynd

Decline the contents. Not the use of the key.

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greywynd

And in the game you are dealing with a reality that also involves magic. Which very much tosses the real world reality out the window.

preechr

Bad Guys all shop at the same stores, so it's pretty believable that they would all buy the same types of chests, and it's pretty obvious that dwarf that gives away the free keys is behind all this somehow
Not sure what his scam is, but clearly his one-time-use keys and his otherwise indestructible/unopenable chests are just step one in his sordid little plan

jumpingmorks

elrondknight said:

It does give you an extra chance at the best loot in the dungeon. Most areas have one item that is optimal, that many players run over and over to get. Opening the 2nd chest doubles your chances.

It doesn't double your chances, it gives you another 0.x% chance to get something decent. You are as likely to get something the first time as you are nothing the next 90 times.

If my chances of winning the lottery doubled everytime I bought another lottery number, am pretty sure I'd be dictating you this through a cute intern while discussing my misogynsitic tendencies with a very qualified therapist with the highly paid but forgotten about accountant in the background swearing under his/her breath regarding my 0.x% example.

jumpingmorks

joe123thewayward said:

greywynd said:

Keys that open more than one lock on different chests, in different dungeons makes far less sense.

Nope that is false. Buy a key safe today an look at the key, you will find a 3 or 4 diget alphanumeric code on the key. That key will open hundreds or thousands of safes that share the same alphanumeric code. Moreover, historically keys were very very simple items that could often work on many different locks if the two or three teeth on the key were compatibal with the key that was made for the lock. I have owned and lived in/around a lot of places with anitique locks on the interior doors and it is very easy to open those locks with other keys or even hair pins. Modern keys use very complex paterns of teeth that are difficult to replicate by chance. Modern locks are also designed to only accept keys that match up extreamly close to the complex patern of teeth that their intended key posesses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp4LFuFCon0

marv700

greywynd said:

And in the game you are dealing with a reality that also involves magic. Which very much tosses the real world reality out the window.

Why do you keep harping on keys and magic. The real problem is the loot is terrible. For the difficulty of the dungeons and for the time spent. They can give you 20 chests per dungeon run for free and it would still be junk. They should just change the chests to mimics.

oldbaldyone

jumpingmorks said:

If my chances of winning the lottery doubled everytime I bought another lottery number, am pretty sure I'd be dictating you this through a cute intern while discussing my misogynsitic tendencies with a very qualified therapist with the highly paid but forgotten about accountant in the background swearing under his/her breath regarding my 0.x% example.

Not exactly the best analogy, as there is an absolute limit to the number of lottery tickets you can buy before winning is guaranteed. And while I do believe going from 1 chance to 2 does "double" your chances, it doesn't double the drop rate. It increases the "odds" or whatever (the math nuts can go there lol).

The keys not being used I truely believe was a bug they didn't intend. I remember in the early days arguing with people over it....they were obviously designed to be used. However, this was left in and they said nothing about it, so it just became part of the game. Then they go and "fix" it, making everyone go nuts. I don't like the fix, and I think the old way was fine, especially considering you are talking about thousands of keys or incredible luck to get a super rare drop now.

The current course of the game seems to be: make harder content, and if you can't do that, nerf existing content. Keys being consumed was the start...multiple sets of the same power artifact weapons, and the upcoming bonding nerf. No double AD events, and the removal of double RP. They are desperate now to keep the game going till they can add more content. Even the limit on the Brave seals (which i didnt know about lol) is intended to slow people. Not sure what they will do for 13...as they seem to have hit a wall.

/rant

jumpingmorks

oldbaldyone said:

jumpingmorks said:

If my chances of winning the lottery doubled everytime I bought another lottery number, am pretty sure I'd be dictating you this through a cute intern while discussing my misogynsitic tendencies with a very qualified therapist with the highly paid but forgotten about accountant in the background swearing under his/her breath regarding my 0.x% example.

Not exactly the best analogy, as there is an absolute limit to the number of lottery tickets you can buy before winning is guaranteed. And while I do believe going from 1 chance to 2 does "double" your chances, it doesn't double the drop rate. It increases the "odds" or whatever (the math nuts can go there lol).

The keys not being used I truely believe was a bug they didn't intend. I remember in the early days arguing with people over it....they were obviously designed to be used. However, this was left in and they said nothing about it, so it just became part of the game. Then they go and "fix" it, making everyone go nuts. I don't like the fix, and I think the old way was fine, especially considering you are talking about thousands of keys or incredible luck to get a super rare drop now.

The current course of the game seems to be: make harder content, and if you can't do that, nerf existing content. Keys being consumed was the start...multiple sets of the same power artifact weapons, and the upcoming bonding nerf. No double AD events, and the removal of double RP. They are desperate now to keep the game going till they can add more content. Even the limit on the Brave seals (which i didnt know about lol) is intended to slow people. Not sure what they will do for 13...as they seem to have hit a wall.

/rant

I am not bothered by the key changes at all. What I continue to be bothered about was that we were all retrospectively called chest decline exploiters but that in their wisdom they've chosen not to take action, yet anyway.

The option was there to fix an issue they knew of instead chose to blame the player base.