Abandon instance works well. I saw this running the new skirmish.
It has no min IL and without a decent tank or a strong group, you will fail, if reflect dmg effect occurs. Here is what will happen: As long as there is a decent chance, that you will be able to carry the group, they will neiter leave or abandon the instance.
It is more likely, that you will get insulted by some trash PuGs, for not beeing able, to solo the boss (after they died), then these ppl to vote for abandon instance.
I dont know, who you want to force, to run random ques, but seriously, do you think any well geared player did earn his AD (exept some in the beginning, maybe) collecting RAD from random ques. Did you ever calculate, how many ADs a player had to spent, to get a BIS char or a bunch of 14k+ chars? Sure, I will waste my time running FBI with a PuG group...not.
How will 53rd level and lower players be eligible for any of these random queues to earn bonus RAD?
As I mentioned in the original post, the rule that you must be eligible for all queues in a random queue in order to join it does not apply when you are ineligible due to player level. Since player level is not something you can manually prevent from advancing, and because we obviously want you to be able to queue for random queues while leveling to earn the new bonus experience points, level will not prevent you from queuing.
I mentioned earlier that a player must be eligible for all of the queues in a random queue, however, there is in fact one exception: level. If a player is ineligible to queue for a certain queue in the random queue because they are too low level, they will still be able to queue. Basically, this means that even if you are level 30 and only have access to a limited subset of the dungeons in Random: Dungeon you will still be able to queue for a random dungeon.
To further add details to this, you will be able to queue as a party even if your levels are disparate, as long as you share at least one queue in common. For instance a level 30 and level 70 player can queue for a random dungeon together. However, because level 70 and level 30 players share no skirmishes in common, they will be unable to queue for a random skirmish together. In the future we may consider making adjustments to skirmishes to alleviate this.
But I want to be absolutely clear: you will be able to earn bonus AD from a random dungeon and a random skirmish as soon as you can access one of each.
Assume more people will take up pvp to earn AD. Either: a. nobody will do this and as such be worse off with these calculations b. lots of people will do it and sit at the campfire hoping others will win the match for them (we've seen it before) c. more people have a proper try at pvp, get farmed by the pro's, find out what Drains are & why we hate them & leave feeling demoralised.
Assume most players will run Randoms for the bonus Nobody than can queue with a farming group will risk getting a long dungeon. Time-to-earnings ratio will still be better running EToS etc even with the loss of bonus AD. It doesn't make economic sense.
Even if queue tiers are broken down into T1/T2/T3, anyone over 12k will do the above. As such Randoms will be full of 'barely qualified' players who can't get into premades (due to IL) - and without anyone to carry them they will have a dreadful time and a significant loss of daily AD due to fails.
Assume that preventing leavers will make people play nice. No they won't, they will deliberately troll the rest of the group so they are kicked. The more they troll, the faster they'll get kicked so it's going to be nasty.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
I have 10 characters of 12k and up with my mains being just over 14k. While at times doing the random queue with a full premade might be fun, for profit the order of the day will be salvage runs. I can run 3 or more ETOS in the time of 1 EGWD and carry my friends' undergeared Alts at the same time. It won't be as good as the current system, but we will make do.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
Easiest way around the Hati bug is to simply wait it out if you die. Releasing after your party finished Hati put you back down in the fighting area.
Yup, I know that - but the people getting sucked into there via "random queue" are not going to know that for the most part. I mean 90% of the PS4 people don't even know there IS a forum - if a guild member doesn't tell them then how would they know?
I'm just saying if you are going to lock the AD behind being able to complete ALL of the dungeons - then they need to fix the dungeons first so that ALL of the dungeons can be completed correctly.
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Its still a overall complicated system that fails to really do anything, but annoy people, it wasnt a current broken system and while things that are not broken, can be improved obviously, a whole sale change wasn't ever necessary..
you could .. you know just escalate AD earnings by runs that are not being done.. that will just make people run it instead.. people will run EWGD if it earns double ETOS, or a FBI if it earns triple..
that is all you need to do is incentives to low run encounters..
people can the decided to run quicker instances.. or longer ones, based on AD /Time ratio.
Lets face it, when you start getting into hundreds, then thousands of runs.. ad/time ration is all you have.
Sadly the company has never relieved us of that.. in fact the new system.. will definitely give you less AD in the end.
This DEV is smoking some serious something..
increasing randomness and rng factor.. can result in basically a 50 or more less of AD.. in fact it might be best just to basically ignore ad bonus.. because you can still get more AD from not doing their queue system, then doing it.
I have no idea what they think they are doing.. but its obviously , not correct.
there is no way shape and form, that a average player, will earn more in this system.
Its still a overall complicated system that fails to really do anything, but annoy people, it wasnt a current broken system and while things that are not broken, can be improved obviously, a whole sale change wasn't ever necessary..
It is broken, otherwise people would run eCC. The issue is that we don't get the rewards for the time commitment of eCC. I think that is part of what they wanted to address, but even if all of the current issues of the system were worked out (low levels, msp being in the same queue as shores etc) it still fails to give a meaningful reward for running eCC. If you get eCC, you would just be annoyed by getting eCC rather than being excited about 1000 extra AD you are getting for having random queued. 1000 AD is not worth the time investment called eCC.
> @asterdahl said: > I will be posting the promised details shortly, but I wanted to take a moment to clarify a misunderstanding. @asterdahl > > I have 1 simple question for you to explain. > > How will 53rd level and lower players be eligible for any of these random queues to earn bonus RAD? > > As I mentioned in the original post, the rule that you must be eligible for all queues in a random queue in order to join it does not apply when you are ineligible due to player level. Since player level is not something you can manually prevent from advancing, and because we obviously want you to be able to queue for random queues while leveling to earn the new bonus experience points, level will not prevent you from queuing. > I mentioned earlier that a player must be eligible for all of the queues in a random queue, however, there is in fact one exception: level. If a player is ineligible to queue for a certain queue in the random queue because they are too low level, they will still be able to queue. Basically, this means that even if you are level 30 and only have access to a limited subset of the dungeons in Random: Dungeon you will still be able to queue for a random dungeon. > > > To further add details to this, you will be able to queue as a party even if your levels are disparate, as long as you share at least one queue in common. For instance a level 30 and level 70 player can queue for a random dungeon together. However, because level 70 and level 30 players share no skirmishes in common, they will be unable to queue for a random skirmish together. In the future we may consider making adjustments to skirmishes to alleviate this. > > But I want to be absolutely clear: you will be able to earn bonus AD from a random dungeon and a random skirmish as soon as you can access one of each.
Thank you because I totally missed the level not being a stopper. I do however still think that the implementation of the random queue is 180 degrees off from what it should be. I'll explain in a later post after I type it up.
Alrighty folks, thank you for waiting for this response, I'm going to take a moment to detail some forthcoming adjustments, then talk about how those should address a number of your concerns. (These will read like patch notes, but the changes have not yet been applied to preview.)
Adjustments to Rewards
The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Skirmish has been increased from 3000 to 6000.
The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Skirmish has been increased from 400 to 600.
The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Dungeon has been increased from 4000 to 7000.
The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Dungeon has been increased from 600 to 900.
The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Epic Dungeon has been increased from 800 to 900.
The amount of daily bonus AD granted by Random: Trial has been increased from 3000 to 5000.
The amount of repeatable bonus AD granted by Random: Trial has been increased from 500 to 600.
The daily and repeatable AD bonus rewards granted by Random: Hero's Accord has been removed.
In lieu of AD, the daily reward will award a jadeite while the repeatable reward will award a black pearl.
(A jadeite is worth 2,500 refinement points (25,000 by current live standards.)
A black pearl is worth 100 refinement points (1,000 by current live standards.)
These refinement stones replace a rough AD reward of 5000 and 800 respectively.
Live AD Earn vs New Random Queue AD Earn (Non-Epic)
On live currently, it is possible to earn a total of 15,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons. With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) I have also excluded PvP values here, as many of you have pointed out you have no interest in running PvP. Those values will remain as is in the original post. They were included as they represent the total bonus daily AD earn.
All of this means that in roughly half the time you can earn 93.5% of the rough AD it was possible to earn prior to these changes. You only need to run 1 random dungeon (this means leveling dungeon, level 70 dungeons are part of the random epic dungeon queue) and 1 random skirmish. When you factor in salvage from the additional bonus seals that were not present in leveling dungeons or skirmishes before, the total rough AD earn has gone up vs. live even if you can only run these two random queues. Additionally, the time you must invest in running those daily queues has gone down.
The only difference here is that you cannot specify which leveling dungeon or skirmish you will run in order to receive the bonus. However, you are absolutely free to manually select whichever skirmish you prefer to run for salvage after completing your daily bonus run.
Epic Random Queues and Queuing for Epic Content Manually
With the above adjustments, all of the epic random queues now represent a bonus on top of what is already available on live. The only minor restriction is that because the dungeon AD reward is now tied to the daily leveling dungeon random queue, if your desired farming is to run a specific epic dungeon for salvage, you may feel it's best to run a single leveling dungeon before you start for the bonus. This shouldn't be a seriously disruptive change.
The most important thing I would like to clarify is that: you may absolutely still queue manually for any epic dungeon or trial you like. The random epic dungeon and trial queues are bonuses for those who have unlocked access to them. If you're working on getting up to that item level and have yet to unlock the higher dungeons, running an individual epic dungeon you're comfortable running should still be very rewarding for increasing your item level, even if there is no bonus AD. This is because, all other items will still drop, including refinement items as well as seals of the protector which can be used to purchase very powerful equipment.
I have noticed some concerns that these bonuses will "help players with a higher item level pull even farther ahead." Keep in mind advancing your item level is a non-linear endeavor. Getting the last few thousand item levels of 'best-in-slot' is much harder than getting to 11k total item level. With module 12 it has become much easier to get higher item level equipment, and with 12B we will be reducing the refinement needed to get to rank 12 (and subsequently, lower ranks as well.)
This sort of positive feedback loop is essential to progression feeling rewarded. In a casual match based game like Mario Kart with no long term progression, you want to ensure a negative feedback loop is present so each race can feel close regardless of skill level. With long term progression, you will want to feel rewarded for the time and hard work you've put in. We want players who can do the hardest content to be rewarded proportionally for it.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
exactly.. you run ecc and ewgd a few tiems a month for fun.. its the same as fbi for me (or was) I ran it when I had time/or others asked, or I saw a random party being formed for it.. it was fun to me even to the end.. because I didnt use it to grind armor.. just ran it for fun.. others ran it for armor or ran it for rng factor boe pets.
however.. because I didnt grind keys for it, i literally could end 2-3 runs in a row wiht zero salvage.. so it goes back to..
run things for guaranteed AD, or run things for a rng chance.. I chose guaranteed AD and I could make 5-6 million a month doing that.. it was enough for my needs anyways.. new system.. will go that down though.
Jeepers dont they see the pricing of things.. 9 million dollar enchant = 2 months or so of me grinding .. alone. one enchant.
this new system will just make that process even longer.
No one wants to do pvp, because your pvp broke back in like mod 4.. and its gone downhill since then. you waited way to long and it takes too much effort to play pvp nowadays..
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,429Arc User
> @plasticbat said: > it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. > > I am missing something. How do you get 14500 rough AD from 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon? > Random skirmish 6000, random dungeon 7000. total: 13000. > > If you run 2 random skirmish and 2 random dungeons, you can get 14500.
No the repeat bonus is in the first run as well so you need to add 6k, 6k, 600, and 900 to get 14,500 for 1 skirmish and 1 dungeon.
Notice the part in parentheses after the section you quoted.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,429Arc User
> it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon.
>
> I am missing something. How do you get 14500 rough AD from 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon?
> Random skirmish 6000, random dungeon 7000. total: 13000.
>
> If you run 2 random skirmish and 2 random dungeons, you can get 14500.
No the repeat bonus is in the first run as well so you need to add 6k, 6k, 600, and 900 to get 14,500 for 1 skirmish and 1 dungeon.
Yes, you are right, He said the following in the bracket and I did not understand what he mean until after I read it like 5 times.
(Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.)
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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blindfury11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 52Arc User
"With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) "
If I understand correctly, it means the first run actually gives you 6600 for the skirmish and 7900 for the dungeon for a total of 14500. Why not change it to these values to make it less confusing?
But you get the bonus and the regular run amount on the first run. Using the word repeat is a bad choice on his part as it infers that you have to repeat an action to gain it. "Regular" reward would be a better choice for clarity.
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,429Arc User
With this change, I guess I can do one random dungeon and one random skirmish (both of them should be fairly easy) and then on my way to do something else.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
> @blindfury11 said: > @Asterdahl > > "With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) " > > If I understand correctly, it means the first run actually gives you 6600 for the skirmish and 7900 for the dungeon for a total of 14500. Why not change it to these values to make it less confusing?
I believe because it will display as 2 different numbers in the game and they don't want people coming back and saying "You said 6600 but it only gave me 6000!" Better to separate it right off the bat then try to explain it later.
With the above adjustments, all of the epic random queues now represent a bonus on top of what is already available on live. The only minor restriction is that because the dungeon AD reward is now tied to the daily leveling dungeon random queue, if your desired farming is to run a specific epic dungeon for salvage, you may feel it's best to run a single leveling dungeon before you start for the bonus. This shouldn't be a seriously disruptive change.
The most important thing I would like to clarify is that: you may absolutely still queue manually for any epic dungeon or trial you like. The random epic dungeon and trial queues are bonuses for those who have unlocked access to them. If you're working on getting up to that item level and have yet to unlock the higher dungeons, running an individual epic dungeon you're comfortable running should still be very rewarding for increasing your item level, even if there is no bonus AD. This is because, all other items will still drop, including refinement items as well as seals of the protector which can be used to purchase very powerful equipment.
I would like something spelled out explicitly so that there is on confusion.
"all of the epic random queues now represent a bonus on top of what is already available on live."
This and the fact that players on preview got RAD from completing Lostmauth create some confusion. Is the intention that "Bonus" refers to something that we get in addition to what we get on Live or is the existing RAD daily award being done away with? My understanding is that we will get NO RAD from manual queues but if this is incorrect it would remove any objections to the system as it would be strictly Opt In.
Turning to some other issues, the intent here seems to be to force level 70 characters into the 'Heroic' (old term) or leveling dungeons. However every time the matter has come up on the forums regarding over leveled characters in this content, the general reaction of leveling players has been one of extreme annoyance and frustration. Pushing even more geared characters into this content seems as if it will simply worsen the experience of leveling players, even if they get their queues faster. As for my own part, I want nothing to do with running these dungeons (for reward or otherwise) on my geared characters. They can easily solo them and it is rather boring and frankly humiliating.
Then there is the fact that there is a long streak of annoyance among the playerbase regarding RNG in this game and now we ourselves are to be subjected to it (after a fashion since it isn't strictly always random) when the content is not in any way equal. It seems as if you have lumped the older t1s and t2s in with FBI and MSP. Is there no way you can bracket this so that those who can't or won't do the higher tiered dungeons can opt out but still participate in a the new system? You could simply scale the rewards back (perhaps with an option to get the remainder of the full reward if the player did a higher tier the same day) I believe that doing this would remove the largest objection to the new system, in that it would prevent people from being forced into content that they can't complete. Quite simply put, faster queue times for someone pugging MSP means nothing if the players they get aren't ready for the content.
Frankly, if you did that, it would probably address the point that has been made multiple times regarding Leaver Penalty and trolling to force a vote kick.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
All of this means that in roughly half the time you can earn 93.5% of the rough AD it was possible to earn prior to these changes. You only need to run 1 random dungeon (this means leveling dungeon, level 70 dungeons are part of the random epic dungeon queue) and 1 random skirmish.
No. I'm sorry but not it's not. To run a random skirmish you need to have all skirmishes unlocked, this means investing in the different campaigns and get IL high enough to do IG. So you're actively CUTTING revenues for lots of mid-geared players and for the alts game. You're cutting it, like completely. Why don't you answer that concern? It's be repeated over and over, and you keep saying that "Daily AD is increasing with random queue". But that means we need to BE ABLE to random queue to get them.
And again, NO i'm sorry this won't take half the time, at least not always. It's way longer to do any of the leveling dungeons over mini-ToS (5 min run), and it's way longer to do ONE IG than TWO MotH (3 min run).
Once again, i understand that you want people to run more diversified content, and adding one special piece of stuff in epic dungeons helped! (essentially because they are pretty nice transmute like VT armor or ECC hat). And it's nice that you're improving the rewards from the random queue. Just, please, don't cut any more of our revenues in game. There are not enough reliable grindable sources of AD and you're now cutting another one.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,429Arc User
As for my own part, I want nothing to do with running these dungeons (for reward or otherwise) on my geared characters. They can easily solo them and it is rather boring and frankly humiliating.
For this, I think I will see this happens and I probably will do it. I form my party of 5 to do random level dungeon. We do door to door. Probably, only need one guy to do the job. Get the AD and done. 5 minutes or less. It is more or less like doing weekly in Dread Ring, Sharanadar, etc.
Will that help newbie? No. However, it is fast and easy.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
you cannot specify which leveling dungeon or skirmish you will run in order to receive the bonus.
How about NO LEVELLING DUNGEONS because they're awful and slow and have bad rewards? Seriously, why would you incentivise L70 characters to go do content where they one-shot everything just to make the same AD they would have made doing *real* content previously? Everyone agrees that running Cloak Tower or Karrundax is *easier* than running VT or EToS, but they run the epics anyway because the levelling dungeons are no fun at all. Please up the raw AD for "first dungeon" and let EITHER an epic OR a levelling dungeon count, don't force people who want AD to run the levelling dungeons.
As I mentioned in the original post, the rule that you must be eligible for all queues in a random queue in order to join it does not apply when you are ineligible due to player level. Since player level is not something you can manually prevent from advancing, and because we obviously want you to be able to queue for random queues while leveling to earn the new bonus experience points, level will not prevent you from queuing.
I mentioned earlier that a player must be eligible for all of the queues in a random queue, however, there is in fact one exception: level. If a player is ineligible to queue for a certain queue in the random queue because they are too low level, they will still be able to queue. Basically, this means that even if you are level 30 and only have access to a limited subset of the dungeons in Random: Dungeon you will still be able to queue for a random dungeon.
To further add details to this, you will be able to queue as a party even if your levels are disparate, as long as you share at least one queue in common. For instance a level 30 and level 70 player can queue for a random dungeon together. However, because level 70 and level 30 players share no skirmishes in common, they will be unable to queue for a random skirmish together. In the future we may consider making adjustments to skirmishes to alleviate this.
You specify "level" as the only limiter, what about item level?
So if my group has, say, 4x15K people who have all epic dungeons unlocked, and one 8K person, our "random queue" will always be one the 8K person qualifies for? So we can "random queue" together and will ALWAYS get MC, VT, or ELOL? Up him to 9K and we might get ECC, EGWD, CN,or ETOS, but we'll *never* get FBI or MSP?
Or will IL limits not be respected, and me being a 15K character grouped with 8K characters mean our collective "random queue" might take us to FBI?
Further question:
So if I take off my armor and unsummon my companion and my IL drops below 11K, I'll be able to random queue without getting stuck in FBI or MSP with a group that can't complete it?
Oh and, uh, so "Random Epic Trial" isn't really going to be very RANDOM a lot of the time. If I form a queue group of 25 people, and whack "take me to the Random Epic Trials that my queue group qualifies for", I'm going to be SHOCKED if we wind up in MSVA or nDemo.
Not necessarily disappointed, mind you, but really really surprised.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
As I mentioned in the original post, the rule that you must be eligible for all queues in a random queue in order to join it does not apply when you are ineligible due to player level.
Once again. That's irrelevant.
The biggest issue is with levl 70 players that are only able to run a part of the epic dungeons - don't have the IL for others or haven't unlocked them. Those are the players that really need all the AD they can get and those are the obnes this change will hurt because they cannot use the random queues,
The fact that you are completely ignoring this issue has me worried.
Oh and, uh, so "Random Epic Trial" isn't really going to be very RANDOM a lot of the time. If I form a queue group of 25 people, and whack "take me to the Random Epic Trials that my queue group qualifies for", I'm going to be SHOCKED if we wind up in MSVA or nDemo.
Not necessarily disappointed, mind you, but really really surprised.
As I understand it, in order for you to be able to random trial queue, your party composition has to meet the requirements for all possible trials. Because having >10 players disqualifies you from nDemo and MSVA, you will be prevented from queuing for a random trial if you have >10 players.
The only exception is for level requirements on the random dungeon queue. It will let you queue for those even if you have players who do not have the character level required.
Oh and, uh, so "Random Epic Trial" isn't really going to be very RANDOM a lot of the time. If I form a queue group of 25 people, and whack "take me to the Random Epic Trials that my queue group qualifies for", I'm going to be SHOCKED if we wind up in MSVA or nDemo.
Not necessarily disappointed, mind you, but really really surprised.
As I understand it, in order for you to be able to random trial queue, your party composition has to meet the requirements for all possible trials. Because having >10 players disqualifies you from nDemo and MSVA, you will be prevented from queuing for a random trial if you have >10 players.
The only exception is for level requirements on the random dungeon queue. It will let you queue for those even if you have players who do not have the character level required.
That's just incredibly awful.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,429Arc User
As I mentioned in the original post, the rule that you must be eligible for all queues in a random queue in order to join it does not apply when you are ineligible due to player level.
Once again. That's irrelevant.
The biggest issue is with levl 70 players that are only able to run a part of the epic dungeons - don't have the IL for others or haven't unlocked them. Those are the players that really need all the AD they can get and those are the obnes this change will hurt because they cannot use the random queues,
The fact that you are completely ignoring this issue has me worried.
These level 70 players will only allow to run random level dungeon to earn AD. They can qualify those and earn the same amount of AD. However, they probably cannot run random skirmish.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Comments
It has no min IL and without a decent tank or a strong group, you will fail, if reflect dmg effect occurs. Here is what will happen: As long as there is a decent chance, that you will be able to carry the group, they will neiter leave or abandon the instance.
It is more likely, that you will get insulted by some trash PuGs, for not beeing able, to solo the boss (after they died), then these ppl to vote for abandon instance.
I dont know, who you want to force, to run random ques, but seriously, do you think any well geared player did earn his AD (exept some in the beginning, maybe) collecting RAD from random ques. Did you ever calculate, how many ADs a player had to spent, to get a BIS char or a bunch of 14k+ chars? Sure, I will waste my time running FBI with a PuG group...not.
Easiest way around the Hati bug is to simply wait it out if you die. Releasing after your party finished Hati put you back down in the fighting area.
But I want to be absolutely clear: you will be able to earn bonus AD from a random dungeon and a random skirmish as soon as you can access one of each.
Assume more people will take up pvp to earn AD. Either:
a. nobody will do this and as such be worse off with these calculations
b. lots of people will do it and sit at the campfire hoping others will win the match for them (we've seen it before)
c. more people have a proper try at pvp, get farmed by the pro's, find out what Drains are & why we hate them & leave feeling demoralised.
Assume most players will run Randoms for the bonus
Nobody than can queue with a farming group will risk getting a long dungeon. Time-to-earnings ratio will still be better running EToS etc even with the loss of bonus AD. It doesn't make economic sense.
Even if queue tiers are broken down into T1/T2/T3, anyone over 12k will do the above. As such Randoms will be full of 'barely qualified' players who can't get into premades (due to IL) - and without anyone to carry them they will have a dreadful time and a significant loss of daily AD due to fails.
Assume that preventing leavers will make people play nice.
No they won't, they will deliberately troll the rest of the group so they are kicked. The more they troll, the faster they'll get kicked so it's going to be nasty.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
I'm just saying if you are going to lock the AD behind being able to complete ALL of the dungeons - then they need to fix the dungeons first so that ALL of the dungeons can be completed correctly.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
you could .. you know just escalate AD earnings by runs that are not being done.. that will just make people run it instead.. people will run EWGD if it earns double ETOS, or a FBI if it earns triple..
that is all you need to do is incentives to low run encounters..
people can the decided to run quicker instances.. or longer ones, based on AD /Time ratio.
Lets face it, when you start getting into hundreds, then thousands of runs.. ad/time ration is all you have.
Sadly the company has never relieved us of that.. in fact the new system.. will definitely give you less AD in the end.
This DEV is smoking some serious something..
increasing randomness and rng factor.. can result in basically a 50 or more less of AD.. in fact it might be best just to basically ignore ad bonus.. because you can still get more AD from not doing their queue system, then doing it.
I have no idea what they think they are doing.. but its obviously , not correct.
there is no way shape and form, that a average player, will earn more in this system.
Signature [WIP] - tyvm John
> I will be posting the promised details shortly, but I wanted to take a moment to clarify a misunderstanding. @asterdahl
>
> I have 1 simple question for you to explain.
>
> How will 53rd level and lower players be eligible for any of these random queues to earn bonus RAD?
>
> As I mentioned in the original post, the rule that you must be eligible for all queues in a random queue in order to join it does not apply when you are ineligible due to player level. Since player level is not something you can manually prevent from advancing, and because we obviously want you to be able to queue for random queues while leveling to earn the new bonus experience points, level will not prevent you from queuing.
> I mentioned earlier that a player must be eligible for all of the queues in a random queue, however, there is in fact one exception: level. If a player is ineligible to queue for a certain queue in the random queue because they are too low level, they will still be able to queue. Basically, this means that even if you are level 30 and only have access to a limited subset of the dungeons in Random: Dungeon you will still be able to queue for a random dungeon.
>
>
> To further add details to this, you will be able to queue as a party even if your levels are disparate, as long as you share at least one queue in common. For instance a level 30 and level 70 player can queue for a random dungeon together. However, because level 70 and level 30 players share no skirmishes in common, they will be unable to queue for a random skirmish together. In the future we may consider making adjustments to skirmishes to alleviate this.
>
> But I want to be absolutely clear: you will be able to earn bonus AD from a random dungeon and a random skirmish as soon as you can access one of each.
Thank you because I totally missed the level not being a stopper. I do however still think that the implementation of the random queue is 180 degrees off from what it should be. I'll explain in a later post after I type it up.
Adjustments to Rewards
Live AD Earn vs New Random Queue AD Earn (Non-Epic)
On live currently, it is possible to earn a total of 15,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 2 skirmishes and 2 dungeons. With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) I have also excluded PvP values here, as many of you have pointed out you have no interest in running PvP. Those values will remain as is in the original post. They were included as they represent the total bonus daily AD earn.All of this means that in roughly half the time you can earn 93.5% of the rough AD it was possible to earn prior to these changes. You only need to run 1 random dungeon (this means leveling dungeon, level 70 dungeons are part of the random epic dungeon queue) and 1 random skirmish. When you factor in salvage from the additional bonus seals that were not present in leveling dungeons or skirmishes before, the total rough AD earn has gone up vs. live even if you can only run these two random queues. Additionally, the time you must invest in running those daily queues has gone down.
The only difference here is that you cannot specify which leveling dungeon or skirmish you will run in order to receive the bonus. However, you are absolutely free to manually select whichever skirmish you prefer to run for salvage after completing your daily bonus run.
Epic Random Queues and Queuing for Epic Content Manually
With the above adjustments, all of the epic random queues now represent a bonus on top of what is already available on live. The only minor restriction is that because the dungeon AD reward is now tied to the daily leveling dungeon random queue, if your desired farming is to run a specific epic dungeon for salvage, you may feel it's best to run a single leveling dungeon before you start for the bonus. This shouldn't be a seriously disruptive change.The most important thing I would like to clarify is that: you may absolutely still queue manually for any epic dungeon or trial you like. The random epic dungeon and trial queues are bonuses for those who have unlocked access to them. If you're working on getting up to that item level and have yet to unlock the higher dungeons, running an individual epic dungeon you're comfortable running should still be very rewarding for increasing your item level, even if there is no bonus AD. This is because, all other items will still drop, including refinement items as well as seals of the protector which can be used to purchase very powerful equipment.
I have noticed some concerns that these bonuses will "help players with a higher item level pull even farther ahead." Keep in mind advancing your item level is a non-linear endeavor. Getting the last few thousand item levels of 'best-in-slot' is much harder than getting to 11k total item level. With module 12 it has become much easier to get higher item level equipment, and with 12B we will be reducing the refinement needed to get to rank 12 (and subsequently, lower ranks as well.)
This sort of positive feedback loop is essential to progression feeling rewarded. In a casual match based game like Mario Kart with no long term progression, you want to ensure a negative feedback loop is present so each race can feel close regardless of skill level. With long term progression, you will want to feel rewarded for the time and hard work you've put in. We want players who can do the hardest content to be rewarded proportionally for it.
however.. because I didnt grind keys for it, i literally could end 2-3 runs in a row wiht zero salvage.. so it goes back to..
run things for guaranteed AD, or run things for a rng chance.. I chose guaranteed AD and I could make 5-6 million a month doing that.. it was enough for my needs anyways.. new system.. will go that down though.
Jeepers dont they see the pricing of things.. 9 million dollar enchant = 2 months or so of me grinding .. alone. one enchant.
this new system will just make that process even longer.
No one wants to do pvp, because your pvp broke back in like mod 4.. and its gone downhill since then.
you waited way to long and it takes too much effort to play pvp nowadays..
Random skirmish 6000, random dungeon 7000. total: 13000.
If you run 2 random skirmish and 2 random dungeons, you can get 14500.
> it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon.
>
> I am missing something. How do you get 14500 rough AD from 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon?
> Random skirmish 6000, random dungeon 7000. total: 13000.
>
> If you run 2 random skirmish and 2 random dungeons, you can get 14500.
No the repeat bonus is in the first run as well so you need to add 6k, 6k, 600, and 900 to get 14,500 for 1 skirmish and 1 dungeon.
Notice the part in parentheses after the section you quoted.
(Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.)
@Asterdahl
"With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) "
If I understand correctly, it means the first run actually gives you 6600 for the skirmish and 7900 for the dungeon for a total of 14500. Why not change it to these values to make it less confusing?
@asterdahl Please confirm or correct me on this.
> @Asterdahl
>
> "With the above adjustments, it will be possible to earn 14,500 rough AD from daily bonuses for running 1 random skirmish and 1 dungeon. (Compared with the values in the original post, I am including the repeatable AD reward bonuses in these figures, as I believe leaving them off may have caused some confusion, as they are included in the total reward even on your first daily run.) "
>
> If I understand correctly, it means the first run actually gives you 6600 for the skirmish and 7900 for the dungeon for a total of 14500. Why not change it to these values to make it less confusing?
I believe because it will display as 2 different numbers in the game and they don't want people coming back and saying "You said 6600 but it only gave me 6000!" Better to separate it right off the bat then try to explain it later.
"all of the epic random queues now represent a bonus on top of what is already available on live."
This and the fact that players on preview got RAD from completing Lostmauth create some confusion. Is the intention that "Bonus" refers to something that we get in addition to what we get on Live or is the existing RAD daily award being done away with? My understanding is that we will get NO RAD from manual queues but if this is incorrect it would remove any objections to the system as it would be strictly Opt In.
Turning to some other issues, the intent here seems to be to force level 70 characters into the 'Heroic' (old term) or leveling dungeons. However every time the matter has come up on the forums regarding over leveled characters in this content, the general reaction of leveling players has been one of extreme annoyance and frustration. Pushing even more geared characters into this content seems as if it will simply worsen the experience of leveling players, even if they get their queues faster. As for my own part, I want nothing to do with running these dungeons (for reward or otherwise) on my geared characters. They can easily solo them and it is rather boring and frankly humiliating.
Then there is the fact that there is a long streak of annoyance among the playerbase regarding RNG in this game and now we ourselves are to be subjected to it (after a fashion since it isn't strictly always random) when the content is not in any way equal. It seems as if you have lumped the older t1s and t2s in with FBI and MSP. Is there no way you can bracket this so that those who can't or won't do the higher tiered dungeons can opt out but still participate in a the new system? You could simply scale the rewards back (perhaps with an option to get the remainder of the full reward if the player did a higher tier the same day) I believe that doing this would remove the largest objection to the new system, in that it would prevent people from being forced into content that they can't complete. Quite simply put, faster queue times for someone pugging MSP means nothing if the players they get aren't ready for the content.
Frankly, if you did that, it would probably address the point that has been made multiple times regarding Leaver Penalty and trolling to force a vote kick.
To run a random skirmish you need to have all skirmishes unlocked, this means investing in the different campaigns and get IL high enough to do IG. So you're actively CUTTING revenues for lots of mid-geared players and for the alts game. You're cutting it, like completely. Why don't you answer that concern? It's be repeated over and over, and you keep saying that "Daily AD is increasing with random queue". But that means we need to BE ABLE to random queue to get them.
And again, NO i'm sorry this won't take half the time, at least not always. It's way longer to do any of the leveling dungeons over mini-ToS (5 min run), and it's way longer to do ONE IG than TWO MotH (3 min run).
Once again, i understand that you want people to run more diversified content, and adding one special piece of stuff in epic dungeons helped! (essentially because they are pretty nice transmute like VT armor or ECC hat). And it's nice that you're improving the rewards from the random queue.
Just, please, don't cut any more of our revenues in game. There are not enough reliable grindable sources of AD and you're now cutting another one.
I form my party of 5 to do random level dungeon. We do door to door. Probably, only need one guy to do the job. Get the AD and done. 5 minutes or less. It is more or less like doing weekly in Dread Ring, Sharanadar, etc.
Will that help newbie? No.
However, it is fast and easy.
Please up the raw AD for "first dungeon" and let EITHER an epic OR a levelling dungeon count, don't force people who want AD to run the levelling dungeons.
Also, time to clarify: You specify "level" as the only limiter, what about item level?
So if my group has, say, 4x15K people who have all epic dungeons unlocked, and one 8K person, our "random queue" will always be one the 8K person qualifies for? So we can "random queue" together and will ALWAYS get MC, VT, or ELOL? Up him to 9K and we might get ECC, EGWD, CN,or ETOS, but we'll *never* get FBI or MSP?
Or will IL limits not be respected, and me being a 15K character grouped with 8K characters mean our collective "random queue" might take us to FBI?
Further question:
So if I take off my armor and unsummon my companion and my IL drops below 11K, I'll be able to random queue without getting stuck in FBI or MSP with a group that can't complete it?
Not necessarily disappointed, mind you, but really really surprised.
The biggest issue is with levl 70 players that are only able to run a part of the epic dungeons - don't have the IL for others or haven't unlocked them. Those are the players that really need all the AD they can get and those are the obnes this change will hurt because they cannot use the random queues,
The fact that you are completely ignoring this issue has me worried.
The only exception is for level requirements on the random dungeon queue. It will let you queue for those even if you have players who do not have the character level required.
However, they probably cannot run random skirmish.