a bank thief or car jacker doesn't own what they are trying to take or sell. a person selling an item on on the auction house owns it. it's his/her prerogative as to what price they want to sell it for. the onus is always on the buyer to make sure they are buying what they think they are buying.
let me flip the situation.
if someone has an item worth 500k, and list it with a zero less than that, either by intention, or error, is the person who snaps it up a scammer? no, he's an opportunist.
the weight of burden is ALWAYS on the buyer to make sure they are getting what they are after at the right price.
you NEVER use vague search values when buying from the auction house, if you are looking to buy something of any value, you ALWAYS search appropriately.
you want a greater bonding stone, you search for a greater bonding stone. you want a rare RP stone, you search for a rare RP stone.
edit//
read back through the thread, pretty much everyone is telling you this is not a scam, there's a reason for that, and that's because it isn't.
it's OPPORTUNISM.
edit2// since you edited your post to include car jacking, I'll edit mine accordingly
OMG really you want to play that game and can not see what post is an obvious scam vs someone posting an item for just a dumb price. Like i said lesser bonding getting posted for 820K when they never even get close to 300K . Then you see they posted it just a tad less than a greater bonding for 830k in hopes they screw up and buy it by mistake.
Maybe they are using the AH for storage.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Ok. Let's use your argument with someone who posts something by accident for much cheaper. (ex. bonding stone for 30000$ instead of 300000$) Who would not take advantage of a great deal? Would you buy it and return it to the person saying that they are way too generous and ask them to post it for the correct amount? Of course not.
It really is up to the buyer to look at what they are purchasing before they spend the coin to get it. It is up to the seller to make sure they put the proper price on their items. If someone posts something for much higher and someone buys it, more power to them.
I would not consider this scamming.
I do agree that posting fees should be reinstated. Most sellers would think twice about posting something for a price at which an item would probably not sell.
Ok. Let's use your argument with someone who posts something by accident for much cheaper. (ex. bonding stone for 30000$ instead of 300000$) Who would not take advantage of a great deal? Would you buy it and return it to the person saying that they are way too generous and ask them to post it for the correct amount? Of course not.
It really is up to the buyer to look at what they are purchasing before they spend the coin to get it. It is up to the seller to make sure they put the proper price on their items. If someone posts something for much higher and someone buys it, more power to them.
I would not consider this scamming.
I do agree that posting fees should be reinstated. Most sellers would think twice about posting something for a price at which an item would probably not sell.
I agree with everything you said, except the seller make sure they put a proper price on their items.
there is nothing to say they have to do this, the seller can list an item at whatever price they decide (after all, it's their item), the prospective buyer is not obliged to buy it.
with regards to posting fees, I don't disagree with you, I wouldn't be against these being put in place for VIP players, but it should be set at a rate that still makes having a VIP membership worthwhile.
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,155Arc User
If it is in the Auction House and you buy it, they got what they put it up for and you got the item. Good faith all around.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Why does no one ASK FOR AN INTELLIGENT INTERFACE in the AH? Maybe one where more than 5 brain cells were active? The stupid stuff where you are unable to search & find a "Bonding Runestone" as its more expensive than the "Lesser Bonding Runestone" is the root issue of this thread. The AH interface is TERRIBLE. Suggestion: * use the known naming convention for Bonding Runestones as for all other runestones - "Lesser Bonding Runstone" => Bonding Runestone, Rank 7" Do the same with enchantment names. * make the AH GUI drop boxes useful. I think there is there a "Level" or "Class" in a search for enchantments, but no Rank. * I also suggest that Cryptic does nothing, as whatever they do nearly everything they "do for the players" has a hook attached.
As for the OP, you assume that the price is set by a scammer. I totally disagree with you. People can read, there is no scam here. If they think the price is to good to be true and buy without reading a second time what they are buying it's their fault.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Ok. Let's use your argument with someone who posts something by accident for much cheaper. (ex. bonding stone for 30000$ instead of 300000$) Who would not take advantage of a great deal? Would you buy it and return it to the person saying that they are way too generous and ask them to post it for the correct amount? Of course not.
It really is up to the buyer to look at what they are purchasing before they spend the coin to get it. It is up to the seller to make sure they put the proper price on their items. If someone posts something for much higher and someone buys it, more power to them.
I would not consider this scamming.
I do agree that posting fees should be reinstated. Most sellers would think twice about posting something for a price at which an item would probably not sell.
Yes i would buy and you know what i would also PM the person and give them the option to get their item back at a fair return. Why because i don't want to scam players or take advantage of them.
Ok. Let's use your argument with someone who posts something by accident for much cheaper. (ex. bonding stone for 30000$ instead of 300000$) Who would not take advantage of a great deal? Would you buy it and return it to the person saying that they are way too generous and ask them to post it for the correct amount? Of course not.
It really is up to the buyer to look at what they are purchasing before they spend the coin to get it. It is up to the seller to make sure they put the proper price on their items. If someone posts something for much higher and someone buys it, more power to them.
I would not consider this scamming.
I do agree that posting fees should be reinstated. Most sellers would think twice about posting something for a price at which an item would probably not sell.
Yes i would buy and you know what i would also PM the person and give them the option to get their item back at a fair return. Why because i don't want to scam players or take advantage of them.
if you intend on messaging the person to give them a chance to buy it back, what is the point of bidding in the first place?
again, it's not scamming, stop referring to it as such.
Well one trick that has always been going on for some time yet with the flood of lesser bondings at auction house you see more players that attempt to deceive others. What they do is post a item lets say a lesser bonding just a tad lower than the cost for a greater bonding in hopes someone will buy it by mistake and fall victim to the scam. I see attempting to do this just the same as theft and they should be called out for trying to do such things. Maybe a simple pm asking of their intention in posting like that does not hurt or maybe even talking with their guild how dishonest it is . Just sad because the players that fall victim will be newer players most of the time and all ready have hard enough time making AD without some jerks attempts to swindle them. GUESS I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH SURE BUYER BEWARE YET PLAYERS POST LIKE THIS ARE JUST SO DECEITFUL AND DISHONEST TO FEEL THE NEED TO EARN THEIR AD BY PRAYING ON YOUNG CHILDREN OR NEW PLAYERS THAT DO NOT LOOK CLOSE ENOUGH AT WHAT THEY BUY.
Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with this. It is the players fault for not reading what he is buying. I mean, it's not like someone said "Hey if you put 100$ in the game you will get this item" and then change the item later on. That is deceitful.
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ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
edited January 2017
While I agree that it's rather underhanded, I think it's not really a scam - more of taking advantage of people's carelessness.
Some advice? Don't buy or even sell things when you are half asleep. Heck, don't even refined while you are half asleep, you don't want to forget to remove that Trans. Dread before you use your MH to feed the new one.... OOPS!
I've seen people posting a single item at the price of a stack too - happens with r5s. But what can you say if you misclicked and bought it? I know it's awful that new players get taken advantage of that way but it's a rite of passage. The world of trades is full of treachery they say
Thanks for the good intention behind this post but not much can really be done except spreading awareness - which is what this post is for I suppose!
TL;DR: When you are about to make a purchase, keep your eyes peeled. However, feel free to call out those who does these and ask your friends to not buy from them but that's about as much as you can do.
"'Live and learn!' as my gaffer used to say. Though he was thinking of gardening, not of roosting like a bird, nor of trying to walk like a spider." - Samwise Gamgee
deathklaat666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 61Arc User
edited January 2017
Now lets talk about the true AH Scammers, The AD Farmers that that sell for cash in the websites we see spammed so much. 1st they buy up the items that the regular grinding community can afford then repost them with much higher AD prices to drive up the value. then they convince people to buy AD from there sites, in turn the people take the AD they risked their account to get, and buy the inflated enchantments, essentially returning the AD they Purchased right back to the Farmer/seller. they are the ones that need to be dealt with. That is the cycle that needs to be ended. Those farmers are direclty stealing Profits from the "buisness"side of neverwinter, which drives the dev teams to look for more ways to exract more Money from players to keep the buisness end of the game profitable, Them and those that Buy from them are what really needs addressing
Whereas I'm all for combating scammers, I'm not sure I would consider this scamming per se. This is more like taking advantage of people who don't spend any time shopping around before making a purchase and are willing to pay an atrocious price anyway.
Posting items at higher prices than their value is a problem since VIP removed posting fees. As much as I enjoy not having to pay posting fees, I think they should be reinstated to discourage people for posting items at atrociously high prices. There is no downside to posting stuff for more, and there's a chance that someone will bite.
But if someone is willing to buy my widget at way above market value, why should they be prevented from doing so? Maybe they desperately need it right now and have more money than sense.
Besides, how would you determine who is guilty of this type of behavior? What if the prices of the higher level item drop after I already posted my lower level one? What if people purposefully undercut the higher level item just to make it appear that I'm trying to scam people?
I agree with the above. It's not just the lesser bonding stones - this happens across the AH landscape. And don't assume the people doing it are scammers - in some cases they are just ignorant of the going rate, or don't bother to check the market before posting. As noted - when you remove the posting fee via VIP (and I do NOT feel that should be removed) it makes it possible to put any price on any item you want.
If some one else is naive or uninformed enough to make the purchase of a 250 AD item for 10K AD (for example) the fault is with the buyer for not doing their homework and/or not paying attention to the title of the item in the AH listing.
Not much can be done. I don't see any solution. This sort of "scam" has been around since the concept of the game and exists in other games too. We can't "name and shame" here in the forums either. I appreciate your desire to make new players aware, but they seldom come here. I feel the biggest rip off to this day is "bag of holes". To the best of my knowledge it only exists in this game as a joke. Yet people still sell them at outlandish prices fully aware it is an unusable object.
check black desert's market on a way on how to combat this.
check black desert's market on a way on how to combat this.
I know of Black Desert's blind auctions and they have "fixed" range pricing no allowing too high or too low. I agree that is a good system, but they cannot implement it here, as it would require work and money in a budget.
In the original Guild Wars, there is no Auction House, players are free to trade using whatever they deem of value. The main currency is 1 platinum equals 1000 gold coins. There are no other denominations. After some time the players realized they could only fit so much currency on any character and on each account it was limited to 1000 platinum in the chest. So they started trading in globs of ectoplasm (which is a very rare crafting material used for making very rare armor). It is all too common to go into the city of Kamadan and see players asking for items priced in Ectos and not in gold or platinum. While I love the idea of a player's market, when trading this way, people have been "scammed" (not paying attention) the ectos icon is a match for Mursaat Tokens which are only worth 30 gold. Simply hovering the mouse reveals the scam but some people are in a big hurry to trade. Ectos stack up to 250 per slot, one such stack is roughly 2500 to 3000 platinum the last time I checked.
caveat emptor. this is not a scam. people can price however they want. no one forces them to buy and you could argue if they found something priced far below average they'd snap it up. (caveat lector)
neither is a scam. neither is a con. it is up to the buyer and the seller to practice due diligence. no one is holding a gun to the head or making a sales pitch pitching it as something it is not. there are no pyramid schemes or what not here. if someone over pays or sells for too little they'll remember it next time and not do it again.
it's not deceit. it is impossible to deceive in this setting. they aren't cleverly renaming the product. they aren't putting up a picture of something other than the item for sale. a person buys what is advertised. if the person doesn't read the description before hitting buy then they have not done due diligence. it's an important life lesson in a virtual setting. I have no patience with actual scams but this isn't that. it isn't deception. it's overpricing. if someone is stupid enough to pay too much that is their own fault. there is nothing out there illegal or wrong with over pricing. just as there is nothing illegal or wrong with underpricing. a scam would be like the person doing a trade showing one thing and then doing a shell game and giving another thing. that's wrong but the ah is set up in a manner where nothing is manipulated. you have no control over what things are named. there are no pictures. you can price as you like.
Well, you might as well call it a "scam" what is currently going on with Lightning Enchantments... those were selling for around 200k AD at most yesterday, and are suddenly priced at 1.2m AD today... now how did that happen?
Well, you might as well call it a "scam" what is currently going on with Lightning Enchantments... those were selling for around 200k AD at most yesterday, and are suddenly priced at 1.2m AD today... now how did that happen?
what I'm reading is that the op bought one of these over priced things without looking and is now looking to blame it on someone other than themselves by calling the seller a scammer. lol.
Well, you might as well call it a "scam" what is currently going on with Lightning Enchantments... those were selling for around 200k AD at most yesterday, and are suddenly priced at 1.2m AD today... now how did that happen?
what is up with that? lol.
No idea, looks like someone bought up all the remaining Lightning Enchantment... just wondering if there is something going on with those specific enchantments, and that's the reason why they are suddenly "sold out"?
what I'm reading is that the op bought one of these over priced things without looking and is now looking to blame it on someone other than themselves by calling the seller a scammer. lol.
Nope i am far from ever making a mistake such as that i just know many of the tricks people try to get over on others.Kinda like your last comment trying to make me look bad or in the wrong so now you troll me. Yet i do know of deceitful people that have pulled this scam in hopes to make crooked ad. Like i have said they prey on young or new players and if they could change pic or descriptions they would but all they can do is blend there lesser item into the lowest price for a greater item and hope they SCAM the person into buying it by mistake.I know i have seen people bragging about doing this and i also know i have heard people that have been victims of it. Yet only thing that stops a player from doing either is how they prefer to conduct themselves in the game .Just to bad we do not have alignments then we could also see the kind of people that we buy from my guess the people posting items that way are Chaotic Evil outside even covin that could make them lawful.
I am NOT trying to make you look bad. I am stating what it reads like. stating my opinion is a "trick" to get something over on you? is that really what you just said? LOL wow. And because I disagree with you I'm "trolling" uh huh. did you know that using emotionally laden wording is also a kind of trick to get people to agree with you. emotional manipulation it's called.
You're doing exactly what you're accusing me of if you want to get down to it.
the fact is they cannot alter anything. if they could is irrelevant. these same poor poor people who might get "scammed" as you say would also happily buy something vastly underpriced. that makes them scammers by your own logic does it not? I can say this because there is virtually no one out there who would not happily jump on a great deal yet people mistakenly price things every day.
if someone can't read and figure things out for themselves then they've no one but themselves to blame. buying and selling is an agreement between two parties. if they failed to do due diligence it isn't the sellers fault in an instance like this. a scam means that one side must be misrepresenting an item. there is NO opportunity to do so in the ah.
a price on it that is lower than something but higher than others like it is just that.. nothing else. you don't represent an item to be this thing or that thing because of the dollar sign next to it. you represent it to be what it is by the item description. the item description is ALWAYS correct in the ah. 1000% of the time.
there are all sorts of instances where by regular sorting (and I do not believe someone as clueless as you are painting the potential rube to be would know any tricks to sorting auction house listings) where similar but different items are going to be near the same price. if they go in and buy the wrong thing was it always a scam? because by your logic it would have to be.
Comments
a bank thief or car jacker doesn't own what they are trying to take or sell. a person selling an item on on the auction house owns it. it's his/her prerogative as to what price they want to sell it for. the onus is always on the buyer to make sure they are buying what they think they are buying.
let me flip the situation.
if someone has an item worth 500k, and list it with a zero less than that, either by intention, or error, is the person who snaps it up a scammer? no, he's an opportunist.
the weight of burden is ALWAYS on the buyer to make sure they are getting what they are after at the right price.
you NEVER use vague search values when buying from the auction house, if you are looking to buy something of any value, you ALWAYS search appropriately.
you want a greater bonding stone, you search for a greater bonding stone. you want a rare RP stone, you search for a rare RP stone.
edit//
read back through the thread, pretty much everyone is telling you this is not a scam, there's a reason for that, and that's because it isn't.
it's OPPORTUNISM.
edit2// since you edited your post to include car jacking, I'll edit mine accordingly
It really is up to the buyer to look at what they are purchasing before they spend the coin to get it. It is up to the seller to make sure they put the proper price on their items. If someone posts something for much higher and someone buys it, more power to them.
I would not consider this scamming.
I do agree that posting fees should be reinstated. Most sellers would think twice about posting something for a price at which an item would probably not sell.
there is nothing to say they have to do this, the seller can list an item at whatever price they decide (after all, it's their item), the prospective buyer is not obliged to buy it.
with regards to posting fees, I don't disagree with you, I wouldn't be against these being put in place for VIP players, but it should be set at a rate that still makes having a VIP membership worthwhile.
The stupid stuff where you are unable to search & find a "Bonding Runestone" as its more expensive than the "Lesser Bonding Runestone" is the root issue of this thread. The AH interface is TERRIBLE.
Suggestion:
* use the known naming convention for Bonding Runestones as for all other runestones - "Lesser Bonding Runstone" => Bonding Runestone, Rank 7"
Do the same with enchantment names.
* make the AH GUI drop boxes useful. I think there is there a "Level" or "Class" in a search for enchantments, but no Rank.
* I also suggest that Cryptic does nothing, as whatever they do nearly everything they "do for the players" has a hook attached.
As for the OP, you assume that the price is set by a scammer. I totally disagree with you.
People can read, there is no scam here. If they think the price is to good to be true and buy without reading a second time what they are buying it's their fault.
again, it's not scamming, stop referring to it as such.
I mean, it's not like someone said "Hey if you put 100$ in the game you will get this item" and then change the item later on. That is deceitful.
Some advice? Don't buy or even sell things when you are half asleep. Heck, don't even refined while you are half asleep, you don't want to forget to remove that Trans. Dread before you use your MH to feed the new one.... OOPS!
I've seen people posting a single item at the price of a stack too - happens with r5s. But what can you say if you misclicked and bought it? I know it's awful that new players get taken advantage of that way but it's a rite of passage. The world of trades is full of treachery they say
Thanks for the good intention behind this post but not much can really be done except spreading awareness - which is what this post is for I suppose!
TL;DR: When you are about to make a purchase, keep your eyes peeled. However, feel free to call out those who does these and ask your friends to not buy from them but that's about as much as you can do.
"'Live and learn!' as my gaffer used to say. Though he was thinking of gardening, not of roosting like a bird, nor of trying to walk like a spider." - Samwise Gamgee
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
If some one else is naive or uninformed enough to make the purchase of a 250 AD item for 10K AD (for example) the fault is with the buyer for not doing their homework and/or not paying attention to the title of the item in the AH listing.
In the original Guild Wars, there is no Auction House, players are free to trade using whatever they deem of value. The main currency is 1 platinum equals 1000 gold coins. There are no other denominations. After some time the players realized they could only fit so much currency on any character and on each account it was limited to 1000 platinum in the chest. So they started trading in globs of ectoplasm (which is a very rare crafting material used for making very rare armor). It is all too common to go into the city of Kamadan and see players asking for items priced in Ectos and not in gold or platinum. While I love the idea of a player's market, when trading this way, people have been "scammed" (not paying attention) the ectos icon is a match for Mursaat Tokens which are only worth 30 gold. Simply hovering the mouse reveals the scam but some people are in a big hurry to trade. Ectos stack up to 250 per slot, one such stack is roughly 2500 to 3000 platinum the last time I checked.
neither is a scam. neither is a con. it is up to the buyer and the seller to practice due diligence. no one is holding a gun to the head or making a sales pitch pitching it as something it is not. there are no pyramid schemes or what not here. if someone over pays or sells for too little they'll remember it next time and not do it again.
what is up with that? lol.
Anyway, carry on...
You're doing exactly what you're accusing me of if you want to get down to it.
the fact is they cannot alter anything. if they could is irrelevant. these same poor poor people who might get "scammed" as you say would also happily buy something vastly underpriced. that makes them scammers by your own logic does it not? I can say this because there is virtually no one out there who would not happily jump on a great deal yet people mistakenly price things every day.
if someone can't read and figure things out for themselves then they've no one but themselves to blame. buying and selling is an agreement between two parties. if they failed to do due diligence it isn't the sellers fault in an instance like this. a scam means that one side must be misrepresenting an item. there is NO opportunity to do so in the ah.
a price on it that is lower than something but higher than others like it is just that.. nothing else. you don't represent an item to be this thing or that thing because of the dollar sign next to it. you represent it to be what it is by the item description. the item description is ALWAYS correct in the ah. 1000% of the time.
there are all sorts of instances where by regular sorting (and I do not believe someone as clueless as you are painting the potential rube to be would know any tricks to sorting auction house listings) where similar but different items are going to be near the same price. if they go in and buy the wrong thing was it always a scam? because by your logic it would have to be.
it just doesn't work that way