Official Feedback Thread: Oathbound Paladin Changes (Sea of Moving Ice)

emilemo

hastati96 said:

darthpotater said:

d4rkh0rs3 said:

I want to see a OPP solo tank Orcus without Binding Oath. No cleric, no HR, no companion pulling your threat, no third-party healing or DR allowed, etc. Let's see those amazing temp HPs!



Ready? GO!

And why you want to see that, unrealistic scenario? is like "I want to see that GWFs do FBI with no tank, no healing no nothing blablabla GWFs are underpowered" hell is not so hard to make commens with a bit of sense.

I totally agree. Why should someone be able to solo the content? The content is build for a group of 5 which means a class isnt weak or uselss just because they cant solo content. It is the same with the tanks. The palas arent weak just because they arent able to solo tank orcus now. Like I said some post above. A tank should always NEED a healer on its side.

You got it wrong, the class dealing with Orcus solo is not the Paladin, its the HR and the video is on youtube.

hastati96

emilemo said:

hastati96 said:

emilemo said:

Bottom line:
a Paladin tank needs a reliable way to withstand Orcus at the very least provided the party is adequate and the Paladin is well built and meeting the IL requirements of the dungeon.

Also @hastati96 as you're proud enough to advertise your guild affiliations in your sig do keep the pve and pvp suggestions separate. Ive met plenty of pvp wizards who would have loved to be able to kill my pally instead of just pushing him away and next mod you might actually have a chance. However what we are discussing here is the effectiveness of the Paladin tank in PVE come next mod and I for one dont want to see my main turned into wet tissue paper thank you.

I have never said just one word about PvP. I am an only PvE player. Everything I said meant to PvE changes

A paladin does very fine with a dc in combination. A tank should always need a healer otherwise heal classes would be useless.

You called the Paladin and I quote "the strongest class" and you said we, its players are simply begging for buffs because we want to play the strongest class (lol) again (again?!! x2 lol). Strongest in what regard? Damage wise? Tanking wise? Buffing wise?

You see, when a non specific class player speaks in a class specific feedback thread he usually does one thing - he tries to undermine the class for whatever reason. Usually the reason is pvp. You claim the pally is not only fine with the changes but it was actually "strongest" at some vague field that we, the actual paladin players have yet to discover. The reality is this, the pally came out and got nerf after nerf. BO was the one thing, the one unique ability that allowed paladins to tank. BO is/was for Paladins what is the Block for the GFs. Without BO Paladins are kings of tanking ONLY trash mobs. Any self respecting boss starting with Orcus will destroy a Paladin without BO. And for the last time forget about the bis level. Any class needs to perform its designated role at a medium level of power (IL). The only people who can call the pally "strongest" or say the changes are fine are people who want to kill paladins in pvp easier. Period.

The paladin was the strongest tank class and of course are some people begging for buffs. The palas lost their godmode and now people want a different one as compensation. Tbh I dont care about PvP, the only thing that interests me is the PvE aspect.
You are complaining about situationts that arent true and I am not talking about bis palas. Orcus wont destroy a paladin now. Why? Just because you cant do it solo now? A DC will be a help. Palas wont have problems in any dungeons. The class is still very strong and with support still a more than solid tank. Almost everyone run a BO build and now you have to look for something else. There is more than 1 build for a tank pala.

armadeonx

hastati96 said:

emilemo said:

hastati96 said:

emilemo said:

Bottom line:
a Paladin tank needs a reliable way to withstand Orcus at the very least provided the party is adequate and the Paladin is well built and meeting the IL requirements of the dungeon.

Also @hastati96 as you're proud enough to advertise your guild affiliations in your sig do keep the pve and pvp suggestions separate. Ive met plenty of pvp wizards who would have loved to be able to kill my pally instead of just pushing him away and next mod you might actually have a chance. However what we are discussing here is the effectiveness of the Paladin tank in PVE come next mod and I for one dont want to see my main turned into wet tissue paper thank you.

I have never said just one word about PvP. I am an only PvE player. Everything I said meant to PvE changes

A paladin does very fine with a dc in combination. A tank should always need a healer otherwise heal classes would be useless.

You called the Paladin and I quote "the strongest class" and you said we, its players are simply begging for buffs because we want to play the strongest class (lol) again (again?!! x2 lol). Strongest in what regard? Damage wise? Tanking wise? Buffing wise?

You see, when a non specific class player speaks in a class specific feedback thread he usually does one thing - he tries to undermine the class for whatever reason. Usually the reason is pvp. You claim the pally is not only fine with the changes but it was actually "strongest" at some vague field that we, the actual paladin players have yet to discover. The reality is this, the pally came out and got nerf after nerf. BO was the one thing, the one unique ability that allowed paladins to tank. BO is/was for Paladins what is the Block for the GFs. Without BO Paladins are kings of tanking ONLY trash mobs. Any self respecting boss starting with Orcus will destroy a Paladin without BO. And for the last time forget about the bis level. Any class needs to perform its designated role at a medium level of power (IL). The only people who can call the pally "strongest" or say the changes are fine are people who want to kill paladins in pvp easier. Period.

The paladin was the strongest tank class and of course are some people begging for buffs. The palas lost their godmode and now people want a different one as compensation. Tbh I dont care about PvP, the only thing that interests me is the PvE aspect.
You are complaining about situationts that arent true and I am not talking about bis palas. Orcus wont destroy a paladin now. Why? Just because you cant do it solo now? A DC will be a help. Palas wont have problems in any dungeons. The class is still very strong and with support still a more than solid tank. Almost everyone run a BO build and now you have to look for something else. There is more than 1 build for a tank pala.

How long have you played the game? were you around when the paladin came out? If you were you'll remember that sub 3k groups wanted the pally whilst 3k+ groups wanted the GF. Obviously because one lot needed survival over speed and the other wanted the opposite.

Do you play a paladin? Do you play a GF? Are you able to fully understand not only the actual differences but also the bias that even well specced pallys now have to tolerate?

Do you understand the differences between how the two generate threat & hold aggro? Do you actually understand how their defence mechanics work - or, as I suspect, you simply see that a pally with BO can't be killed?

I suspect you're missing the entire point of what's being said here - pallys are not asking to be better than GF's, they are asking to be given tools that are EQUAL IN WORTH. The fact you believe they already have them puts you in a very small minority, as standing around in PE watching the LFG messages will show you.

If you don't run a tank at all, why are you even here commenting? You have NO FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE COMMENTING ON.

emilemo

hastati96 said:

emilemo said:

hastati96 said:

emilemo said:

Bottom line:
a Paladin tank needs a reliable way to withstand Orcus at the very least provided the party is adequate and the Paladin is well built and meeting the IL requirements of the dungeon.

Also @hastati96 as you're proud enough to advertise your guild affiliations in your sig do keep the pve and pvp suggestions separate. Ive met plenty of pvp wizards who would have loved to be able to kill my pally instead of just pushing him away and next mod you might actually have a chance. However what we are discussing here is the effectiveness of the Paladin tank in PVE come next mod and I for one dont want to see my main turned into wet tissue paper thank you.

I have never said just one word about PvP. I am an only PvE player. Everything I said meant to PvE changes

A paladin does very fine with a dc in combination. A tank should always need a healer otherwise heal classes would be useless.

You called the Paladin and I quote "the strongest class" and you said we, its players are simply begging for buffs because we want to play the strongest class (lol) again (again?!! x2 lol). Strongest in what regard? Damage wise? Tanking wise? Buffing wise?

You see, when a non specific class player speaks in a class specific feedback thread he usually does one thing - he tries to undermine the class for whatever reason. Usually the reason is pvp. You claim the pally is not only fine with the changes but it was actually "strongest" at some vague field that we, the actual paladin players have yet to discover. The reality is this, the pally came out and got nerf after nerf. BO was the one thing, the one unique ability that allowed paladins to tank. BO is/was for Paladins what is the Block for the GFs. Without BO Paladins are kings of tanking ONLY trash mobs. Any self respecting boss starting with Orcus will destroy a Paladin without BO. And for the last time forget about the bis level. Any class needs to perform its designated role at a medium level of power (IL). The only people who can call the pally "strongest" or say the changes are fine are people who want to kill paladins in pvp easier. Period.

The paladin was the strongest tank class and of course are some people begging for buffs. The palas lost their godmode and now people want a different one as compensation. Tbh I dont care about PvP, the only thing that interests me is the PvE aspect.
You are complaining about situationts that arent true and I am not talking about bis palas. Orcus wont destroy a paladin now. Why? Just because you cant do it solo now? A DC will be a help. Palas wont have problems in any dungeons. The class is still very strong and with support still a more than solid tank. Almost everyone run a BO build and now you have to look for something else. There is more than 1 build for a tank pala.

Honestly, I dont know what would I do without control wizards to teach me how to build and play a paladin. Thank you

armadeonx

Exactly so. Maybe we should start calling for a nerf on Disintegrate? I mean after all, the CW is just as good a DPS as a GWF even without it..

Edit - you know, there are actually some parallels between the CW and OP. The CW used to be the 'uber dps' in the game, everybody wanted one or more in their party. In fact, some parties would ONLY have CW's for dps!

Then they were hit with the nerf hammer. Not once, several times - each time adding another nail to their coffin. Well known CW players were making loud noises about it going too far, being unfair etc (kinda like pallies now).

The funny thing is many other (non-CW) players replied by saying things like "why are you complaining? The CW is just a support class, it's not supposed to compete with the real dps classes!"

The number of people playing the class has now dwindled. If you run a CW these days you're considered either a noob or a die hard. Many players simply gave in and rolled a new character.

The thing is, I can still honestly say "yes but I've seen some amazing CW's! they out DPS'd everyone else in my group!" and infer through that, that they are fine where they are. But I run a 3k CW and I know it's not true - and I know that CW's are overlooked in favor of GWFs and SWs and it's not fair. It really isn't. (please note I also run a GWF and SW...)

The OP is currently in a very similar place to where the CW was after its first nerf. It's suffering but hasn't died - but because it conflicts with the developers goals they are going to take the easy option and make the pally worse rather than invest the right amount of time and effort and re-create a paladin class that meets both the needs of the devs and the players.

I play 6 classes and I suffer from the tragically pathetic fate of the CW and OP being my two favorites - because I like their mechanics, their play style.

I like slapping things with a broadsword on my GWF, I like dodging & weaving on my TR and my respecced HB Fury SW is a killer - really is - but you like what you like.

Anyway, my point is if you don't run a pally then you probably don't even understand the problems & limitations and how these changes take away one of the last remaining crutches the class has.

hastati96

armadeonx said:

Exactly so. Maybe we should start calling for a nerf on Disintegrate? I mean after all, the CW is just as good a DPS as a GWF even without it..

lol

nightranger7477

Thank you @armadeonx I couldn't have said it any better, a very thoughtful response, and the only response they could come up with is lol.....smh

d4rkh0rs3

Guys, please stay on topic and be respectful. This is an open discussion and the devs are looking for useful information. If its not fun for me to investigate text walls for useful information then it's likely the same for the devs.



The ability to solo tank Orcus is a benchmark for tanks. This has nothing to do with GWFs, or HRs, or CWs, or any other class soloing Orcus with the intent to kill him or just simply survive. What I mean by solo tanking Orcus is I want to see the Paladin pull Orcus' threat and survive multiple hits without dropping and without using Binding Oath (benefits from other classes or companions not allowed).

Why? Because a GF can do it.

Furthermore, once a fairly geared OPP can solo tank Orcus, the OPP should be able to keep the party alive relatively equivalent to a GF (Knight's Valor encounter). Shield of Faith is inadequate and is a daily power. Divine Protector is useful, but it is a daily power with an exceptionally short duration.

Why? Because a GF can do it.

I haven't touched on the topic of DPS compared to a GF. That comes after the tanking issue is addressed.

Remember: Class Balance.

hastati96

nightranger7477 said:

Thank you @armadeonx I couldn't have said it any better, a very thoughtful response, and the only response they could come up with is lol.....smh

It is pretty funny how fast people going to be upset about something. I just told my opinions about this topic and everyone is shooting at me lol. Probably because I am thinking that the pala is well balanced now compared to GF lol. but nvm I guess I will just harm this thread so I will just leave it here bb o/

tutelo

Has anyone actually tried tanking Orcus in preview with the changes? I havent been able to queue for it so I was curious.

treesclimber

Ok, let's put things in perspective, like i said before the best comparisson to make is Justice with protector GF, the damage is comparable and it excludes AP gain that cannot be provided by OP's i've run some tests post GF patch but ill do again because i forgot ^^.


Paladin:

Bane: How much damage can bane provide?
30 to 35ish %(for devotion paladins), with rank 4 of this power it gets easier to control, does not stack(with other paladins) on target but can be used on teamates for healadins.

Aura of wisdom: 30% recharge speed.

Aura of courage: How much damage can it provide?
Dependent on player HP, but from the logs i've taken since i've reached 70 on my pally (26 april 2015 i think) i have never seen a 25%, from a non pally, ever, i've see 18% from TR's and GWF, 0% from archer's HR's(one of the reasons that lead me to abandon the archery), 12-15% CW's, more or less the same for SW's and for me always above 28% and bellow 38% for me.

Aura gifts: How much damage can it provide?
It is true that it does't stack from companions whatsoever, and i said 100k because it may be possible and i dont know it, i know this:
The maximum steady i've seen from this feat was around 13k, 2 weeks ago, the power of the OP was there, i've tried to simulate a caracter with as much power as i could, without any stacks of power from equipment, completly out of battle i couldn't get there, so more than just the base stats afect the shared power, rings, twisted set, boons, i dont know.
But this is out of battle now, here's what happen in battle, some weeks the damage needed to take to increase the power provided by taking damage (up to 10% of your total HP) was reduced, now if a fly hits you, power up, and that power counts for aura gifts, in the paladin i created i managed to get 210k hp, so to what previously was that 13k power shared is now 18k, 45% damage increase from a feat, that is simply wrong, i dont want the class nerfed, i want buffs well distributed and allowing me to pick a path and have benefits from it. And for the ones that think this buff is too slow or drops easly, 30' is the space between the 2 dummies in the trade of blades, make a circle around the paladin with that radius, there you go.

Radiant champion: 5% recharge speed, 25% movement

Result:
30% more damage on target;
35% recharge speed near paladin to at most 40';
Up to 45% damage bonus to allies
Aura of courage 0 to 38% aditional damage overall in a dungeoun;
Speed.

See the big problems? The share of damage in aura gifts is too big, while GF's investment in recovery will never be that rewarding, see bellow. I sugested auras to be increased in size some posts ago, but they cant, in fact they are too big already, according to D&D wiki on lvl 18 (ignore the level thing) auras get increased to 30', in NWO we have dominating presence, 40', where GF's have more buffs allocated in target instead area like paladin. Back players like archer HR and a CW feat also has something like distance damage increase, will be highly hurt, there is simply no way to get aura gifts(stuck at 30', not 40') and get stillness of the forest, wich is already dificult to get without pulling aggro from enemies.

Now to the damage boost, close range.
At most 36% damage increase (GF's powers also increase his damage, not aura's gift to the paladin)
30% bane;
15% aura of courage (average);
35% recharge speed wich will translate into diferent damage boosts.

Damage decrease in this situation at most: 15% from smite + 30% from bane + 30% SoF (player); Bonus 25% ctrl resist from aura of courage off.hand;


Multi target

DPS:
Aura of courage, Wisdom, 5% recharge speed, Aura gifts;

protectiom:
Binding oath, TW stun, possible burning light stuns or smite damage reduction.



Guardian fighter:

Ok this mark part is a bit messy:

Tide of Iron - 20% alone 40% with GF mark, didnt try with other marks alone because it's usually not needed;

Primary mark (GF mark)- 20% damage + C.A. // With terciary mark = 32%

Secondary mark - 8% damage + C.A. (Mark from ET or Frontline surge), no damage increase paired with GF mark or terciary mark, still 20%, stacks normally with tide of iron.

Terciary mark - 20% damage + C.A.

3 marks : 32% more damage (secondary mark is irrelevant in single target)

3 marks or 2 marks + tide: 52% + C.A.

These are damages increase in PVE not damage resistance decrease so they are not affected by double mitigation (or at least not in IWD polar bears and yetis, if somebody knows more about this please tell me).

Into the Fray: 30% (35% if it was tatician), speed, insignificant temp HP.

Crushing pin : +10%;

Enhanced mark off hand boost: 5%

Final result:

67% more damage on target, no matter where he's attacked from;
30% more damage granted to allies from ITF (+/- 40');
Speed.

Note1: Crushing pin is not easy to mantain without off hand bonus for guarded assault, however i did not say impossible, this is the "perfect build" so an investment in recovery is implied for ITF faster proc and with control bonus stat reaching at least 9,5%, balefull cluch, demonic domination and dragon's grip, also pin down and use of indomitable strenght, buf honestly it's fighting over a bean, the 5% on enhanced mark wont do wonders and can be diched.

Note 2: There is also commander's strike, i didn't include it instead Griphon's wrath because this is single target purpose, for multi target diferent story.

Damage decrease in this situation at most: 5% by united in close range(player), 10% daunting challenge + 20% steel guard + 50% KV(player);

Multi target:

DPS:
Replacement of Off-hand bonus of enhaced mark by guarded assault, and replace Griphons wrath by Commander's strike;
Damage comes down to 48% + CS;

Protection:kv, daunting challenge, steel guard hits and united.




81% damage+ recharge speed, still worse than GF(already taking C.A. appart), seems very close to GF, much easier gameplay, but the share taken by aura gifts is simply wrong, share the light poses no competition. I obviously dont want to take this boost away i would like to see it applied in diferent ways and fix other paths too.


Bullwark- A path that should protect better allies but does not, exept for martyr's blood and laughable divine innervate;
Light - A path that is expected to be a better healer than justice but it's not unless you are a protection OP (bane + vow + bond it's almost all healadins setup in tough situations and hp goes as fast up in both trees).

If you think OP can be as good as GF, you haven't played with the right GF yet, but OP should be as good as GF!!

emilemo

This thread is only 3 pages old and already a wreck. Way I see it the developers already know exactly what they are going to do with the Paladin and will do it regardless just like they do most other things. As you see, we need a really big commotion in order to actually change their intentions (example: chest key change) and I dont see similar level of attention being paid to the pally changes. Its over

armadeonx

I agree, they are going to kill the paladin and it'll probably remain a dead class for a long time. As I said previously I've started saving up for a new GF as I have no faith in them taking the time to do it properly. It's been in intensive care for months but it's one saving grace has been found to work counter to their goals - so off with life support, time to plan the funeral.

darthpotater

Guys you are so pesimistic... Maybe because I main a CW am I am really used to this kind of things. Just look at the CW history we had 4-5 "ends of the world" and "the sky is falling" since the singularity nerf, the dmg nerf, the class remake, the storm spell thing etc. Every change was "they destroyed the class" and here we are. Someones adapted, others left, others copyed another guide, etc.

There is still some people that thinks if you are not top dps or top tank you are useless and is better to take the top class in that role. Those people are just bad players and dont understand how the game works.

A paladin dont have to be another GF. Must be different. For example, the group DPS is better when I run with HRs and GWFs because they are melee and benefit more from Aura of gifts than CWs and SWs.

Just give feedback give suggestions, this attitude doesnt help to change the class. I think the changes need some adjustments (as I said in my feedback) but we all know current Binding Oath and current Divine Protector must change. We all know that. If you cant accept that you are not understanding the problem.

armadeonx

As a CW I'm sure you're familiar with the experience of people saying "no thanks, we want a Warlock".

Edit - actually they will usually take anything except a CW or TR. The pally has been in the same position for months and they are about to make it worse.

The feedback has been given, they will ignore it as they always do and the number of people playing them will shrink as they have for the CW and TR.

The devs priority is to take the shortest route to fixing the issue of too much survivability - which was the central focus in the design of the protection pally. What they should've done is redesign the pally - what they've actually done is just remove it's ability to take very large hits.

edit - you'll notice they haven't even bothered commenting here for about a week. Their internal tester said it's fine so they go through the motions of asking for feedback then roll it out regardless of that feedback.

darthpotater

armadeonx said:

As a CW I'm sure you're familiar with the experience of people saying "no thanks, we want a Warlock".

Well maybe I am lucky but I NEVER and I say NEVER (and I play since beta), were refused by a grup asking for a dps. Maybe because of my IL, I dont know. And I am not Thaum, I am renegade (lower DPS, but more team buffs).

Lots of times I end with more dps than bad GWFs or bad SWs. When I run with good ones, I end with 80% of their dmg but they usually dont know they are being buffed. And hell the main thing is that I dont care about DPS, I only care about run time. Lots of times this "glass cannons kings" die miserably because they cant take a hit or go out of red. The end in the top of paingiver of a double time run

People that only look at paingiver have their mids stucked. Paingiver is not even DPS, is damage dealt, DPS is another thing. You can top paingiver everywhere except FBI just going first and vomiting everything.

Please I even see people opening portals in Demogorgon when gold is done just to get more dmg when others are waitting. This kind of people is those you are talking about. I bet you are one of them.

And stop this nonsense, go back on topic, give feedback or open another threat about the end of the world

razor4lpha

treesclimber said:

Aura gifts: How much damage can it provide?
It is true that it does't stack from companions whatsoever, and i said 100k because it may be possible and i dont know it, i know this:
The maximum steady i've seen from this feat was around 13k, 2 weeks ago, the power of the OP was there, i've tried to simulate a caracter with as much power as i could, without any stacks of power from equipment, completly out of battle i couldn't get there, so more than just the base stats afect the shared power, rings, twisted set, boons, i dont know.
But this is out of battle now, here's what happen in battle, some weeks the damage needed to take to increase the power provided by taking damage (up to 10% of your total HP) was reduced, now if a fly hits you, power up, and that power counts for aura gifts, in the paladin i created i managed to get 210k hp, so to what previously was that 13k power shared is now 18k, 45% damage increase from a feat, that is simply wrong, i dont want the class nerfed, i want buffs well distributed and allowing me to pick a path and have benefits from it. And for the ones that think this buff is too slow or drops easly, 30' is the space between the 2 dummies in the trade of blades, make a circle around the paladin with that radius, there you go.

Aura Gifts is not HP based as far as I know, it is a 30' radius 5/10/15/25% of the paladins power if teammates stay in your range for 6 seconds.
Maybe you are talking about a synergy here, but not entirely clear.

emilemo

My feedback is on page 1 and its the only suggestion that makes sense to me at this point. It seems simple enough of a change, it will remedy the nerf to BO and it will make paladin tanking more pro-active as the player will have to pay attention and block where it matters. Apart from that yes, I am pessimistic because I know Cryptic's MO. I've been playing their games before Neverwinter even came out and I also know there was a time when the GF class could not tank and was excluded from dungeon delves. I am pessimistic because they have a history of killing classes, especially melee fighters/tanks and there is a good chance they will do that to the OP.

The CW did go thru many changes as well but was it ever truly useless? I mean really. Don't forget @panderus mains a CW or at least he used to.

Here's a copy of my original suggestion as a memo.

emilemo said:

If BO and Absolution are shipped as they are on preview the Paladin will need something else in order to tank. Easiest way to do that in my opinion is make Sanctuary into a separate layer of damage resistance and lower the value from 80 back to 60%

oggycz

emilemo

If BO and Absolution are shipped as they are on preview the Paladin will need something else in order to tank. Easiest way to do that in my opinion is make Sanctuary into a separate layer of damage resistance and lower the value from 80 back to 60%




Yes, it would be very elegant solution. And decrease sanctuary casting time.

tutelo

"emilemo said:






If BO and Absolution are shipped as they are on preview the Paladin will need something else in order to tank. Easiest way to do that in my opinion is make Sanctuary into a separate layer of damage resistance and lower the value from 80 back to 60%"


I'm with you here, and I've voiced this as well. Also, it would be good if the healing done was increased and it generated threat while Sanctuary is active.

armadeonx

darthpotater said:

armadeonx said:

As a CW I'm sure you're familiar with the experience of people saying "no thanks, we want a Warlock".

Well maybe I am lucky but I NEVER and I say NEVER (and I play since beta), were refused by a grup asking for a dps. Maybe because of my IL, I dont know. And I am not Thaum, I am renegade (lower DPS, but more team buffs).

Lots of times I end with more dps than bad GWFs or bad SWs. When I run with good ones, I end with 80% of their dmg but they usually dont know they are being buffed. And hell the main thing is that I dont care about DPS, I only care about run time. Lots of times this "glass cannons kings" die miserably because they cant take a hit or go out of red. The end in the top of paingiver of a double time run

People that only look at paingiver have their mids stucked. Paingiver is not even DPS, is damage dealt, DPS is another thing. You can top paingiver everywhere except FBI just going first and vomiting everything.

Please I even see people opening portals in Demogorgon when gold is done just to get more dmg when others are waitting. This kind of people is those you are talking about. I bet you are one of them.

And stop this nonsense, go back on topic, give feedback or open another threat about the end of the world

Haha if I was one of them my three main characters wouldn't be OP, CW & DC (in that order). If I wanted to be top of the board I would've put all my investment into my GWF - who at 2.5k is actually the last to receive any improvements even though I've had him for almost a year. Think again, this time without making negative assumptions simply because I disagreed with you...

armadeonx

oggycz#5356 said:

emilemo

If BO and Absolution are shipped as they are on preview the Paladin will need something else in order to tank. Easiest way to do that in my opinion is make Sanctuary into a separate layer of damage resistance and lower the value from 80 back to 60%

Yes, it would be very elegant solution. And decrease sanctuary casting time.


I agree - them raising it to 80% was probably well intentioned but actually shows a degree of naivete as to what tanks actually need. A separate layer at 60% would be effective but not game breaking.

Edit - it would also be very handy if it increased threat. Unlike the GF we are unable to fire any skills at all with the shield up - unless the seriously boosted Aura of Radiance - that could generate threat whilst shielded, at the moment I don't know anyone who uses it.

Maybe also add an offhand ability? 'whilst shielded you taunt all enemies within 30 ft'?

darthpotater

armadeonx said:

Haha if I was one of them my three main characters wouldn't be OP, CW & DC (in that order). If I wanted to be top of the board I would've put all my investment into my GWF - who at 2.5k is actually the last to receive any improvements even though I've had him for almost a year. Think again, this time without making negative assumptions simply because I disagreed with you...

Well I could be wrong with you, but your comments doenst help. If you are having problems with your CW to get groups I think you are exagerating thats it. I pug a lot just for fun and never had this problem. OPs also dont have problems to have groups because there arent enough tanks for all the runs in the server.

helric9

As long we can't cast anythings under Sanctuary it's really bad idea to make paladin gameplay style based on him.
That will slow down too much our gameplay to make him boring as possible.

emilemo

helric9 said:

As long we can't cast anythings under Sanctuary it's really bad idea to make paladin gameplay style based on him.
That will slow down too much our gameplay to make him boring as possible.

It can work if Sanctuary is used for the really big hits that would otherwise kill you. You gotta have knowledge on the encounter you are in of course, the boss attack pattern, basically to know when to block. So you approach the big bad, you cast your stuff, he swings at your Sanctuary then you go with at wills and repeat. Pretty straight forward and of course one wrong move or lag and you're dead

helric9

Active mitigation like in TESO or Tera is one of the best tank gameplay style, i aggree with you.
But like i said, it's will be really boring for paladin in NW unless we can use others skills at the same time.

emilemo

Well that was our playstyle with BO..but that's gone so we gotta hope for the next best thing

helric9

I was BO user too, so it's a sad day to me too. We'll be not welcome anymore specially in FBI.
I've no hope from the dev, 3 pages of comments, no awnsers and only 1 week before release, no hope left.
As we said, wait and see.

armadeonx

Also, if you're at 80% DR plus some aoe resist, temp health way up and Orcus has at least 2 strikes of Bane applied, you should be able to take the first hit giving you enough time to hit Sanctuary. Hiding behind the double layered protection plus incoming healing from Sanctuary should weather you through it until your encounters are recharged then; shield off, TW, Shield of Faith, crappy new BO, Bane, then back on Shielding Strike for more shield layers = back to where you were before the big hit.

I do still think they need to boost SoF a bit and rewrite DP into a de/buff daily so we have one decent defence daily and one decent de/buff daily. Having two that serve exactly the same purpose is just silly.

nightranger7477

Yeah I'm pretty sure this is just an ignore thread, not one response or explanation from @asterdahl or any of the other Devs as to the suggestions that have been made, OP and SW are in a very bad place now.... and it's not gonna change for at least a couple of mods.