How do Icy Rays crit/interact with Focused Wizardry?

khashir

For solo fights (esp, ones best fought from afar), I'm debating whether to include Icy Rays or Chill Strike (alongside CoI, Disintegrate, and RoE), in terms of DPS. From the tooltip, it seems they deal roughly the same damage vs a single target, though Chill Strike has a lower CD. So, the difference makers would be:

1. Crit chance: When casting vs a single target, does IR count as 2 attacks (so, 2 chances to crit/proc all the CW goodies) or as 1?
   
2. Focused wizardry: Does it benefit from the 30% buff or the 10% 'debuff'? (Is this included in the tooltip?)
   

In short, vs. single target boss fights, which yields better DPS, and why? (Attending to the factors above)

thefabricant

Chill Strike:

Effect: Hits a single target , adds a stack of chill and briefly stuns the target. Deals listed tooltip damage.
Mastery: It is now splash (target limit 5).
Notes: Single target fights it’s a good option. A drawback of it is that the animation is about slow, and can be hard to cancel, leading to getting smashed. Whilst its animation may be slow, if you chain it with other encounter powers, it does allow you to get both off quicker, but by itself it is long.

Icy Rays:

Effect: Nuke spell that can hit two opponents. The tooltip lists the damage for a single ray. It deals this damage to each target if you hit 2 enemies. If you aim at a single enemy, it instead deals 1.75 times the listed tooltip damage. Each ray can proc stuff independently if targeting 2 opponents, but count as 1 spell against a single opponent.
Mastery: Deals 1.5 times as much damage, this change is not registered on the tooltip. (So if targeting 2 targets, each take 1.5 * tooltip damage, but if targeting 1 opponent, they take 1.75 * 1.5 * tooltip damage)
When to use: Single target fights.
Notes: Note that when feated icy rays deals 25% more damage when used on the same target twice and if used on 2 different targets, it reduces the cooldown by 5 seconds.

Chill Strike is AoE on tab and Single Target off tab.

Icy Rays is always single target. regardless of whether you target 1 opponent or 2 opponents and use it on or off tab.

armadeonx

@thefabricant So for a boss fight (e.g. Orcus) you'd have Icy Rays on mastery? Would your other encounters be Disintegrate, Chill Strike & Ray of Enfeeblement?

khashir

thefabricant said:

Chill Strike:

Effect: Hits a single target , adds a stack of chill and briefly stuns the target. Deals listed tooltip damage.
Mastery: It is now splash (target limit 5).
Notes: Single target fights it’s a good option. A drawback of it is that the animation is about slow, and can be hard to cancel, leading to getting smashed. Whilst its animation may be slow, if you chain it with other encounter powers, it does allow you to get both off quicker, but by itself it is long.

Icy Rays:

Effect: Nuke spell that can hit two opponents. The tooltip lists the damage for a single ray. It deals this damage to each target if you hit 2 enemies. If you aim at a single enemy, it instead deals 1.75 times the listed tooltip damage. Each ray can proc stuff independently if targeting 2 opponents, but count as 1 spell against a single opponent.
Mastery: Deals 1.5 times as much damage, this change is not registered on the tooltip. (So if targeting 2 targets, each take 1.5 * tooltip damage, but if targeting 1 opponent, they take 1.75 * 1.5 * tooltip damage)
When to use: Single target fights.
Notes: Note that when feated icy rays deals 25% more damage when used on the same target twice and if used on 2 different targets, it reduces the cooldown by 5 seconds.

Chill Strike is AoE on tab and Single Target off tab.

Icy Rays is always single target. regardless of whether you target 1 opponent or 2 opponents and use it on or off tab.

*Sigh* of course I would've found the answer on your guide... If only we could set the trolls on fire. Thanks man, much appreciated.

So, unless there's something wrong on my end (bug?), Icy Rays and Chill Strike tooltips' show massive power difference.

IR: 2,400-2,900 cold damage, 14.8 sec CD
CS: 8,400-10,000 cold damage, 11.1 sec CD.

That can't be right--not even if each ray hit independently for full damage, does the the DPS come close. What do your numbers say?

armadeonx said:

@thefabricant So for a boss fight (e.g. Orcus) you'd have Icy Rays on mastery? Would your other encounters be Disintegrate, Chill Strike & Ray of Enfeeblement?

Good question too: I was trying to figure out one or the other (between Icy Rays and Chill Strike), because (if I remember the guide correctly), CoI should always be on the bar—off-tab for bosses—because its DoTs proc all the good stuff we know and love (SS, Nightmare, Chaos Magic, Phantasmal Destruction).

jabsolum

@thefabricant

You mention that Icy Rays is always single target. regardless of whether you target 1 opponent or 2 opponents and use it on or off tab.

This does not seem to be the case with Far Spell feated. Is this a bug then?

thefabricant

jabsolum said:

@thefabricant

You mention that Icy Rays is always single target. regardless of whether you target 1 opponent or 2 opponents and use it on or off tab.

This does not seem to be the case with Far Spell feated. Is this a bug then?

Yes.

khashir said:

thefabricant said:

Chill Strike:

Effect: Hits a single target , adds a stack of chill and briefly stuns the target. Deals listed tooltip damage.
Mastery: It is now splash (target limit 5).
Notes: Single target fights it’s a good option. A drawback of it is that the animation is about slow, and can be hard to cancel, leading to getting smashed. Whilst its animation may be slow, if you chain it with other encounter powers, it does allow you to get both off quicker, but by itself it is long.

Icy Rays:

Effect: Nuke spell that can hit two opponents. The tooltip lists the damage for a single ray. It deals this damage to each target if you hit 2 enemies. If you aim at a single enemy, it instead deals 1.75 times the listed tooltip damage. Each ray can proc stuff independently if targeting 2 opponents, but count as 1 spell against a single opponent.
Mastery: Deals 1.5 times as much damage, this change is not registered on the tooltip. (So if targeting 2 targets, each take 1.5 * tooltip damage, but if targeting 1 opponent, they take 1.75 * 1.5 * tooltip damage)
When to use: Single target fights.
Notes: Note that when feated icy rays deals 25% more damage when used on the same target twice and if used on 2 different targets, it reduces the cooldown by 5 seconds.

Chill Strike is AoE on tab and Single Target off tab.

Icy Rays is always single target. regardless of whether you target 1 opponent or 2 opponents and use it on or off tab.

*Sigh* of course I would've found the answer on your guide... If only we could set the trolls on fire. Thanks man, much appreciated.

So, unless there's something wrong on my end (bug?), Icy Rays and Chill Strike tooltips' show massive power difference.

IR: 2,400-2,900 cold damage, 14.8 sec CD
CS: 8,400-10,000 cold damage, 11.1 sec CD.

That can't be right--not even if each ray hit independently for full damage, does the the DPS come close. What do your numbers say?

armadeonx said:

@thefabricant So for a boss fight (e.g. Orcus) you'd have Icy Rays on mastery? Would your other encounters be Disintegrate, Chill Strike & Ray of Enfeeblement?

Good question too: I was trying to figure out one or the other (between Icy Rays and Chill Strike), because (if I remember the guide correctly), CoI should always be on the bar—off-tab for bosses—because its DoTs proc all the good stuff we know and love (SS, Nightmare, Chaos Magic, Phantasmal Destruction).

A large number of buffs are not counted into the tooltip of Icy Rays which are counted into the tooltip of chill strike. For example, Chilling Presence is not included in Icy Ray's tooltip but it is included in chill strike's tooltip. Both do actually benefit from it though.

khashir

thefabricant said:

jabsolum said:

@thefabricant

You mention that Icy Rays is always single target. regardless of whether you target 1 opponent or 2 opponents and use it on or off tab.

This does not seem to be the case with Far Spell feated. Is this a bug then?

Yes.

khashir said:

thefabricant said:

Chill Strike:

Effect: Hits a single target , adds a stack of chill and briefly stuns the target. Deals listed tooltip damage.
Mastery: It is now splash (target limit 5).
Notes: Single target fights it’s a good option. A drawback of it is that the animation is about slow, and can be hard to cancel, leading to getting smashed. Whilst its animation may be slow, if you chain it with other encounter powers, it does allow you to get both off quicker, but by itself it is long.

Icy Rays:

Effect: Nuke spell that can hit two opponents. The tooltip lists the damage for a single ray. It deals this damage to each target if you hit 2 enemies. If you aim at a single enemy, it instead deals 1.75 times the listed tooltip damage. Each ray can proc stuff independently if targeting 2 opponents, but count as 1 spell against a single opponent.
Mastery: Deals 1.5 times as much damage, this change is not registered on the tooltip. (So if targeting 2 targets, each take 1.5 * tooltip damage, but if targeting 1 opponent, they take 1.75 * 1.5 * tooltip damage)
When to use: Single target fights.
Notes: Note that when feated icy rays deals 25% more damage when used on the same target twice and if used on 2 different targets, it reduces the cooldown by 5 seconds.

Chill Strike is AoE on tab and Single Target off tab.

Icy Rays is always single target. regardless of whether you target 1 opponent or 2 opponents and use it on or off tab.

*Sigh* of course I would've found the answer on your guide... If only we could set the trolls on fire. Thanks man, much appreciated.

So, unless there's something wrong on my end (bug?), Icy Rays and Chill Strike tooltips' show massive power difference.

IR: 2,400-2,900 cold damage, 14.8 sec CD
CS: 8,400-10,000 cold damage, 11.1 sec CD.

That can't be right--not even if each ray hit independently for full damage, does the the DPS come close. What do your numbers say?

armadeonx said:

@thefabricant So for a boss fight (e.g. Orcus) you'd have Icy Rays on mastery? Would your other encounters be Disintegrate, Chill Strike & Ray of Enfeeblement?

Good question too: I was trying to figure out one or the other (between Icy Rays and Chill Strike), because (if I remember the guide correctly), CoI should always be on the bar—off-tab for bosses—because its DoTs proc all the good stuff we know and love (SS, Nightmare, Chaos Magic, Phantasmal Destruction).

A large number of buffs are not counted into the tooltip of Icy Rays which are counted into the tooltip of chill strike. For example, Chilling Presence is not included in Icy Ray's tooltip but it is included in chill strike's tooltip. Both do actually benefit from it though.

Ah, got it. Thanks very much.

Still, the CD is significantly longer for IR, and Immobilize is less valuable than Stun—yet many players seem to prefer IR over CS. Is there some other factor missing from the picture?

c1k4ml3kc3

khashir said:

For solo fights (esp, ones best fought from afar), I'm debating whether to include Icy Rays or Chill Strike (alongside CoI, Disintegrate, and RoE), in terms of DPS. From the tooltip, it seems they deal roughly the same damage vs a single target, though Chill Strike has a lower CD. So, the difference makers would be:

1. Crit chance: When casting vs a single target, does IR count as 2 attacks (so, 2 chances to crit/proc all the CW goodies) or as 1?
   
2. Focused wizardry: Does it benefit from the 30% buff or the 10% 'debuff'? (Is this included in the tooltip?)
   

In short, vs. single target boss fights, which yields better DPS, and why? (Attending to the factors above)

CS applies better in a sense since it's having a higher priority than IR. IR's one of those special powers that combine different elements with different stats, furthermore rooting the enemies. It's a life-saver in PvP.
In both cases the Control Strength wouldn't increase their damage nor the freezing power.
You use Icy Rays when you know that there's a huge debuff going on, and you use it on the highHP profile enemies, given that you have enough Arpen. In all other cases I think that CS is actually scaling better than IR.

khashir

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

khashir said:

For solo fights (esp, ones best fought from afar), I'm debating whether to include Icy Rays or Chill Strike (alongside CoI, Disintegrate, and RoE), in terms of DPS. From the tooltip, it seems they deal roughly the same damage vs a single target, though Chill Strike has a lower CD. So, the difference makers would be:

1. Crit chance: When casting vs a single target, does IR count as 2 attacks (so, 2 chances to crit/proc all the CW goodies) or as 1?
   
2. Focused wizardry: Does it benefit from the 30% buff or the 10% 'debuff'? (Is this included in the tooltip?)
   

In short, vs. single target boss fights, which yields better DPS, and why? (Attending to the factors above)

CS applies better in a sense since it's having a higher priority than IR. IR's one of those special powers that combine different elements with different stats, furthermore rooting the enemies. It's a life-saver in PvP.
In both cases the Control Strength wouldn't increase their damage nor the freezing power.
You use Icy Rays when you know that there's a huge debuff going on, and you use it on the highHP profile enemies, given that you have enough Arpen. In all other cases I think that CS is actually scaling better than IR.

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow:

1. What do you mean, having higher priority, and combining different elements from different stats?
   
2. Why would immobilize be better than stun, in PvP?
   
3. (potentially noob question) If Control Strength doesn't increase stun/immobilize (I assume that's what you meant), what does it increase?
   
4. What's the difference between IR and CS, when there's a debuff? What does that have to do with ARP?
   

Thanks for the clarifications!

c1k4ml3kc3

khashir said:

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow:

1. What do you mean, having higher priority, and combining different elements from different stats?
   
2. Why would immobilize be better than stun, in PvP?
   
3. (potentially noob question) If Control Strength doesn't increase stun/immobilize (I assume that's what you meant), what does it increase?
   
4. What's the difference between IR and CS, when there's a debuff? What does that have to do with ARP?
   

Thanks for the clarifications!

1. There are several different spells and damage types which apply before or after the damage itself is applied. So, spells function with priorities such as
- no1 apply damage physical
- no2 apply damage from feat (DoT) and so on.
- Some of the stats will not apply during the rooted sequence
- All of it is a test-on-the-run, I'm afraid. There're too many combinations to choose from.
2. I didn't speak about stun/immobilize, I spoke that Controlling Strength isn't applying to the ALL controlling powers. For instance the Freeze (Frozen) status is not prolonged by using the Control Strength stat, however the duration of the Daze by Steal Time is. I'm unsure just how many powers are actually affected by the Control Strength stat.
3. Some of the controlling aspects, but no all controlling aspects. Controlling Strength will work when you make enemies lay down on the ground after using the Shard of the Endless Avalanche OR when you pick up mobs with Entangling Force.
4. You want your ARP to hit the soft cap at least for PvE, and even more for the PvP. It depends what type of a debuff we're talking about?

tittymonster

So what would be the ideal composition? In single target, if there's no point keeping CoI on tab, which is the best option to replace it with on Mastery?
Not Disintegrate - Fab's guide strongly advocates against that.
Not Chill Strike - because then it'll become AoE.
Not RoE - ref Fab's guide.
So does that mean we slot in Icy Rays over CS just for tab purposes?

asterotg

In single target fights, I keep CoI on Tab and use RoE, Disintegrate and Icy terrain. Peppered with storm pillar and magic missile. If I have to go range, I drop Icy terrain and use CS instead. SS rene build with spell twisting.

CoI keeps the chill stacks up and MM for more arcane stacks. Did anyone test the different rotations and has a better way, to max DPS?