There is no chance at all a 2k team can beat a 4k team, I do not care how dedicated the 2ks are. All NW players should be able to play PVP and earn rewards, not just 4ks. Removing rewards is a non-starter.
Again, I don't think you're reading what I'm saying. The solo Q does not pit just 2k against 4k, it pits random against random. So you will have some 4k, you will have some 2k. Equal chances to get rewards, thus you should have to fight for them. If you want welfare, then call it what it is. Otherwise, if you actually want to play the game, and improve your gear, build, and abilities... you should have to fight for the rewards and win to get them.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
I totally get your point about people being rewarded for minimal efforts. I'm just not sold that an entire team should be penalized for one player's lack of effort.
To flip the scenario in the other direction, let's say the campfire sitter is on the winning team. He's still being rewarded for minimal effort merely because he got on the better team. Meanwhile, the inferior team has 5 players working their butts off to win but can't get it done. Now they get nothing for their efforts in your system. That leads to people saying "Why the heck should I PVP when i'm not even going to get anything for my effort".
Do campfire sitters ruin matches? Yes. But do I think your system is the best idea? Not really. Do I have a better idea? Not a clue lol. Maybe they should scale rewards based on points earned for your team. So if you do minimum needed and get 600 points but the rest of your team is breaking 1500 points you get the smallest piece of the pie.
If campfire sitter team is winning then he has a PM on his team and hasn't Q'd solo. If the other 5 man team can't even pull out a win against 4 people then they should NOT get a reward. You are actually illustrating my point.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
to be honest i see many former premadist who are bis now using solo que....
why? why they shouldnt use premade que face another premade? they were asking for premade que for ages, but why they dont use it? i see zero activity in my alliance to form premades for example. please answer
I'm going to guess it's because everyone wants to see what this new queue is like. You do realize that BIS pvpers will be everywhere in PVP? They're not limited to one Q system (people have asked for IL Q systems to be more effective for just this reason).
Not only that, but premades vs premades aren't even guaranteed to go up against each other. This has been the complaint all along. PMs want their own lobby so they can guarantee sync'd Q's. For example, my guild has tried to do inhouses and sync against other guilds where we've spent 2 hours in Q and still never gotten one another.
That said, I think a lot of BIS players will still be involved in Solo Q's because certain classes have a lot of fun Solo Qing. Especially strong classes can potentially carry teams or at least rack up a huge kill streak.
Perhaps this helps to explain.
not helps, not really satisfied with answer
so players who run premades whenever they want all of the sudden now run solo whenever they want? isnt it odd? lack of consistency? lazyness? fear? did you try premade que now or you are talking about old experience?
honest question ... how many players still asking for premade lobby que now? Isnt it that only few guys at synergy constantly pushing this subject only?
to be honest i see many former premadist who are bis now using solo que....
why? why they shouldnt use premade que face another premade? they were asking for premade que for ages, but why they dont use it? i see zero activity in my alliance to form premades for example. please answer
Almost all of the BIS players will probably solo queue and ruin the whole event. They do not want fair matches or PM v PM, they want easy wins and kills like they have now. They will not let the pugs rest, even for a week.
I called it.
So they release a new PVP mode, and BIS players want to try it out. You are a visionary my friend, truly.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
The best option is to equalize players through scaling. Like is done in CTA, but an improved version. Take the advantage away from 4ks. Also remove mounts, insignias and boons.
I think the Q should simply take IL into account. If one team has a 4k then the other team gets a 4k. Pretty simple. In group matches there should be solo, Duo/trio, and PM Q. The PM should ignore IL or be a lobby, the Solo, Duo/Trio should simply match 4k's in one group with 4K's in the other.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
The best option is to equalize players through scaling. Like is done in CTA, but an improved version. Take the advantage away from 4ks. Also remove mounts, insignias and boons.
Agreed. Too much of an advantage. You can be at 1K iLvL and still have a huge advantage over a 2K that doesn't have the same mounts/bonuses that you do.
The best option is to equalize players through scaling. Like is done in CTA, but an improved version. Take the advantage away from 4ks. Also remove mounts, insignias and boons.
I think the Q should simply take IL into account. If one team has a 4k then the other team gets a 4k. Pretty simple.
to be honest i see many former premadist who are bis now using solo que....
why? why they shouldnt use premade que face another premade? they were asking for premade que for ages, but why they dont use it? i see zero activity in my alliance to form premades for example. please answer
I'm going to guess it's because everyone wants to see what this new queue is like. You do realize that BIS pvpers will be everywhere in PVP? They're not limited to one Q system (people have asked for IL Q systems to be more effective for just this reason).
Not only that, but premades vs premades aren't even guaranteed to go up against each other. This has been the complaint all along. PMs want their own lobby so they can guarantee sync'd Q's. For example, my guild has tried to do inhouses and sync against other guilds where we've spent 2 hours in Q and still never gotten one another.
That said, I think a lot of BIS players will still be involved in Solo Q's because certain classes have a lot of fun Solo Qing. Especially strong classes can potentially carry teams or at least rack up a huge kill streak.
Perhaps this helps to explain.
not helps, not really satisfied with answer
so players who run premades whenever they want all of the sudden now run solo whenever they want? isnt it odd? lack of consistency? lazyness? fear? did you try premade que now or you are talking about old experience?
honest question ... how many players still asking for premade lobby que now? Isnt it that only few guys at synergy constantly pushing this subject only?
we will see how it goes, still 6 days before us
Not sure what to tell you, except your satisfaction with an honest answer is really not that important. What did you expect out of a PVP event? That noone 3.5K plus would Q for it? Noone would be curious to see what it's like? I'm not sure what to tell you if so, except that you may lack foresight?
The fact that you're complaining that PVPers are taking part in a PVP event really sums up your actual argument to me. I think it's pretty obvious that it's not about the Q system, it's that you wish BIS PVPers would simply disappear. This is the tone that I'm catching and, tbh you're probably not alone. I mean who likes to get wrekt vs. higher geared players? The problem is, it's going to happen in any PVP format unless they take IL/Gear/Boons into account or if they were to listen to players and ask that Tenacity be put on all players and that boons/mounts etc become less of a factor.
These are really the only ways to solve it. Making a solo Q isn't suddenly going to fix PVP, is that what you thought would happen? I don't even know what to make of your statements at this point. Except, perhaps you think all BIS PVPers should not Q for solo Q?
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
No, 4ks should never be in a match against 2ks, period. If a 4k is using the solo queue right now, they should be reported for griefing. They need to make it a bannable offense.
Just LOL
*Queues for Solo Domination
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
I'm not sure why you would want to completely take away rewards from the losing side. Thanks to botting it is already pretty non-existent. In the end you're hurting more players than helping. The matches where a team legitimately tries and won't get rewarded would vastly outnumber the matches in which a team doesn't try and will get rewarded.
Requests to force losing sides to still participate in a game have popped up in the past over and over again. Leaver penalty, repel AFKers off nodes, strip rewards, all sorts of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It's 50% griefing and 50% the lack of a true competitive system.
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
The best option is to equalize players through scaling. Like is done in CTA, but an improved version. Take the advantage away from 4ks. Also remove mounts, insignias and boons.
I think the Q should simply take IL into account. If one team has a 4k then the other team gets a 4k. Pretty simple.
to be honest i see many former premadist who are bis now using solo que....
why? why they shouldnt use premade que face another premade? they were asking for premade que for ages, but why they dont use it? i see zero activity in my alliance to form premades for example. please answer
I'm going to guess it's because everyone wants to see what this new queue is like. You do realize that BIS pvpers will be everywhere in PVP? They're not limited to one Q system (people have asked for IL Q systems to be more effective for just this reason).
Not only that, but premades vs premades aren't even guaranteed to go up against each other. This has been the complaint all along. PMs want their own lobby so they can guarantee sync'd Q's. For example, my guild has tried to do inhouses and sync against other guilds where we've spent 2 hours in Q and still never gotten one another.
That said, I think a lot of BIS players will still be involved in Solo Q's because certain classes have a lot of fun Solo Qing. Especially strong classes can potentially carry teams or at least rack up a huge kill streak.
Perhaps this helps to explain.
not helps, not really satisfied with answer
so players who run premades whenever they want all of the sudden now run solo whenever they want? isnt it odd? lack of consistency? lazyness? fear? did you try premade que now or you are talking about old experience?
honest question ... how many players still asking for premade lobby que now? Isnt it that only few guys at synergy constantly pushing this subject only?
we will see how it goes, still 6 days before us
Not sure what to tell you, except your satisfaction with an honest answer is really not that important. What did you expect out of a PVP event? That noone 3.5K plus would Q for it? Noone would be curious to see what it's like? I'm not sure what to tell you if so, except that you may lack foresight?
The fact that you're complaining that PVPers are taking part in a PVP event really sums up your actual argument to me. I think it's pretty obvious that it's not about the Q system, it's that you wish BIS PVPers would simply disappear. This is the tone that I'm catching and, tbh you're probably not alone. I mean who likes to get wrekt vs. higher geared players? The problem is, it's going to happen in any PVP format unless they take IL/Gear/Boons into account or if they were to listen to players and ask that Tenacity be put on all players and that boons/mounts etc become less of a factor.
These are really the only ways to solve it. Making a solo Q isn't suddenly going to fix PVP, is that what you thought would happen? I don't even know what to make of your statements at this point. Except, perhaps you think all BIS PVPers should not Q for solo Q?
i have no problems with bis pvpers que for solo if they do it before
I love this event so much that I think it should stay forever.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
The best option is to equalize players through scaling. Like is done in CTA, but an improved version. Take the advantage away from 4ks. Also remove mounts, insignias and boons.
I think the Q should simply take IL into account. If one team has a 4k then the other team gets a 4k. Pretty simple.
to be honest i see many former premadist who are bis now using solo que....
why? why they shouldnt use premade que face another premade? they were asking for premade que for ages, but why they dont use it? i see zero activity in my alliance to form premades for example. please answer
I'm going to guess it's because everyone wants to see what this new queue is like. You do realize that BIS pvpers will be everywhere in PVP? They're not limited to one Q system (people have asked for IL Q systems to be more effective for just this reason).
Not only that, but premades vs premades aren't even guaranteed to go up against each other. This has been the complaint all along. PMs want their own lobby so they can guarantee sync'd Q's. For example, my guild has tried to do inhouses and sync against other guilds where we've spent 2 hours in Q and still never gotten one another.
That said, I think a lot of BIS players will still be involved in Solo Q's because certain classes have a lot of fun Solo Qing. Especially strong classes can potentially carry teams or at least rack up a huge kill streak.
Perhaps this helps to explain.
not helps, not really satisfied with answer
so players who run premades whenever they want all of the sudden now run solo whenever they want? isnt it odd? lack of consistency? lazyness? fear? did you try premade que now or you are talking about old experience?
honest question ... how many players still asking for premade lobby que now? Isnt it that only few guys at synergy constantly pushing this subject only?
we will see how it goes, still 6 days before us
Not sure what to tell you, except your satisfaction with an honest answer is really not that important. What did you expect out of a PVP event? That noone 3.5K plus would Q for it? Noone would be curious to see what it's like? I'm not sure what to tell you if so, except that you may lack foresight?
The fact that you're complaining that PVPers are taking part in a PVP event really sums up your actual argument to me. I think it's pretty obvious that it's not about the Q system, it's that you wish BIS PVPers would simply disappear. This is the tone that I'm catching and, tbh you're probably not alone. I mean who likes to get wrekt vs. higher geared players? The problem is, it's going to happen in any PVP format unless they take IL/Gear/Boons into account or if they were to listen to players and ask that Tenacity be put on all players and that boons/mounts etc become less of a factor.
These are really the only ways to solve it. Making a solo Q isn't suddenly going to fix PVP, is that what you thought would happen? I don't even know what to make of your statements at this point. Except, perhaps you think all BIS PVPers should not Q for solo Q?
i have no problems with bis pvpers que for solo if they do it before
I literally don't know a single BIS PVPer who doesn't at some point solo Q as well before this event. I would also add that, this is a Solo Q event, thus even people who prefer Premade PVP are going to try it out. The fact you're salty about it shows that you must not have thought this through? or that when the game changes people change with it? I'm still not sure where you're going with this. It's not like PMers suddenly got a Lobby for PMs and now they're not using it. It's just that Solo Q became a thing and all PVPers are testing the waters.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Yeah that PVPers are now trying the solo Q shouldn't come as a surprise. And more than that it's necessary because hopefully this event can show what the ELO is capable of doing with a sufficient population.
Ideally matchmaking and a clever queue structure would separate the BIS from the casuals anyway, but that's still a lot of work.
0
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
The best option is to equalize players through scaling. Like is done in CTA, but an improved version. Take the advantage away from 4ks. Also remove mounts, insignias and boons.
I think the Q should simply take IL into account. If one team has a 4k then the other team gets a 4k. Pretty simple.
to be honest i see many former premadist who are bis now using solo que....
why? why they shouldnt use premade que face another premade? they were asking for premade que for ages, but why they dont use it? i see zero activity in my alliance to form premades for example. please answer
I'm going to guess it's because everyone wants to see what this new queue is like. You do realize that BIS pvpers will be everywhere in PVP? They're not limited to one Q system (people have asked for IL Q systems to be more effective for just this reason).
Not only that, but premades vs premades aren't even guaranteed to go up against each other. This has been the complaint all along. PMs want their own lobby so they can guarantee sync'd Q's. For example, my guild has tried to do inhouses and sync against other guilds where we've spent 2 hours in Q and still never gotten one another.
That said, I think a lot of BIS players will still be involved in Solo Q's because certain classes have a lot of fun Solo Qing. Especially strong classes can potentially carry teams or at least rack up a huge kill streak.
Perhaps this helps to explain.
not helps, not really satisfied with answer
so players who run premades whenever they want all of the sudden now run solo whenever they want? isnt it odd? lack of consistency? lazyness? fear? did you try premade que now or you are talking about old experience?
honest question ... how many players still asking for premade lobby que now? Isnt it that only few guys at synergy constantly pushing this subject only?
we will see how it goes, still 6 days before us
Not sure what to tell you, except your satisfaction with an honest answer is really not that important. What did you expect out of a PVP event? That noone 3.5K plus would Q for it? Noone would be curious to see what it's like? I'm not sure what to tell you if so, except that you may lack foresight?
The fact that you're complaining that PVPers are taking part in a PVP event really sums up your actual argument to me. I think it's pretty obvious that it's not about the Q system, it's that you wish BIS PVPers would simply disappear. This is the tone that I'm catching and, tbh you're probably not alone. I mean who likes to get wrekt vs. higher geared players? The problem is, it's going to happen in any PVP format unless they take IL/Gear/Boons into account or if they were to listen to players and ask that Tenacity be put on all players and that boons/mounts etc become less of a factor.
These are really the only ways to solve it. Making a solo Q isn't suddenly going to fix PVP, is that what you thought would happen? I don't even know what to make of your statements at this point. Except, perhaps you think all BIS PVPers should not Q for solo Q?
i have no problems with bis pvpers que for solo if they do it before
I literally don't know a single BIS PVPer who doesn't at some point solo Q as well before this event. I would also add that, this is a Solo Q event, thus even people who prefer Premade PVP are going to try it out. The fact you're salty about it shows that you must not have thought this through? or that when the game changes people change with it? I'm still not sure where you're going with this. It's not like PMers suddenly got a Lobby for PMs and now they're not using it. It's just that Solo Q became a thing and all PVPers are testing the waters.
so deal with with hopeless pugs are not that unbearable like always stated. thanks
The best option is to equalize players through scaling. Like is done in CTA, but an improved version. Take the advantage away from 4ks. Also remove mounts, insignias and boons.
I think the Q should simply take IL into account. If one team has a 4k then the other team gets a 4k. Pretty simple.
to be honest i see many former premadist who are bis now using solo que....
why? why they shouldnt use premade que face another premade? they were asking for premade que for ages, but why they dont use it? i see zero activity in my alliance to form premades for example. please answer
I'm going to guess it's because everyone wants to see what this new queue is like. You do realize that BIS pvpers will be everywhere in PVP? They're not limited to one Q system (people have asked for IL Q systems to be more effective for just this reason).
Not only that, but premades vs premades aren't even guaranteed to go up against each other. This has been the complaint all along. PMs want their own lobby so they can guarantee sync'd Q's. For example, my guild has tried to do inhouses and sync against other guilds where we've spent 2 hours in Q and still never gotten one another.
That said, I think a lot of BIS players will still be involved in Solo Q's because certain classes have a lot of fun Solo Qing. Especially strong classes can potentially carry teams or at least rack up a huge kill streak.
Perhaps this helps to explain.
not helps, not really satisfied with answer
so players who run premades whenever they want all of the sudden now run solo whenever they want? isnt it odd? lack of consistency? lazyness? fear? did you try premade que now or you are talking about old experience?
honest question ... how many players still asking for premade lobby que now? Isnt it that only few guys at synergy constantly pushing this subject only?
we will see how it goes, still 6 days before us
Not sure what to tell you, except your satisfaction with an honest answer is really not that important. What did you expect out of a PVP event? That noone 3.5K plus would Q for it? Noone would be curious to see what it's like? I'm not sure what to tell you if so, except that you may lack foresight?
The fact that you're complaining that PVPers are taking part in a PVP event really sums up your actual argument to me. I think it's pretty obvious that it's not about the Q system, it's that you wish BIS PVPers would simply disappear. This is the tone that I'm catching and, tbh you're probably not alone. I mean who likes to get wrekt vs. higher geared players? The problem is, it's going to happen in any PVP format unless they take IL/Gear/Boons into account or if they were to listen to players and ask that Tenacity be put on all players and that boons/mounts etc become less of a factor.
These are really the only ways to solve it. Making a solo Q isn't suddenly going to fix PVP, is that what you thought would happen? I don't even know what to make of your statements at this point. Except, perhaps you think all BIS PVPers should not Q for solo Q?
i have no problems with bis pvpers que for solo if they do it before
I literally don't know a single BIS PVPer who doesn't at some point solo Q as well before this event. I would also add that, this is a Solo Q event, thus even people who prefer Premade PVP are going to try it out. The fact you're salty about it shows that you must not have thought this through? or that when the game changes people change with it? I'm still not sure where you're going with this. It's not like PMers suddenly got a Lobby for PMs and now they're not using it. It's just that Solo Q became a thing and all PVPers are testing the waters.
so deal with with hopeless pugs are not that unbearable like always stated. thanks
I'm not sure what these means, could you clarify? "so deal with with hopeless pugs are not that unbearable like always stated" I'm not sure what this means m8.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I think he means that everyone should just accept that the nature of the beast means you're still going to get queued at some point with people who are a bad match for you.
No complaining about either 4k BiS players who are liable to wipe the floor with everyone else, *or* about someone who's going to get 600 points and stop trying. Just deal with each match as it comes, for good or ill.
I think that it's important that everyone who has an interest in the outcome should participate. If none of the BiS players take part, whatever data Cryptic is collecting from the event isn't going to represent who would use this if it were a permanent feature.
I think the only way to have... hmm... playground PvP? would be to make it an entirely different game mode, with everyone completely stripped. But I doubt it would be worth the effort, honestly. And it's a weirdly contradictory concept. I guess like nonalcoholic beer. Some people just want the taste with none of the other effects.
I think he means that everyone should just accept that the nature of the beast means you're still going to get queued at some point with people who are a bad match for you.
No complaining about either 4k BiS players who are liable to wipe the floor with everyone else, *or* about someone who's going to get 600 points and stop trying. Just deal with each match as it comes, for good or ill.
I think that it's important that everyone who has an interest in the outcome should participate. If none of the BiS players take part, whatever data Cryptic is collecting from the event isn't going to represent who would use this if it were a permanent feature.
I think the only way to have... hmm... playground PvP? would be to make it an entirely different game mode, with everyone completely stripped. But I doubt it would be worth the effort, honestly. And it's a weirdly contradictory concept. I guess like nonalcoholic beer. Some people just want the taste with none of the other effects.
As far as accepting the "nature of the beast" I think we'd all like to see PVP bettered, we just have differing perspectives on how to go about it. I think separating IL is more important than making a solo Q. I think making a PM lobby is more important than making a solo Q.
I think getting rid of players who only want the "free" ad from PVP is important as well. There are a number of issues we could discuss to make PVP better or more fun. I don't, however, think it's realistic to expect a solo Q to suddenly be somehow different than what already exists without changing requirements to get into it.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I think separating IL is more important than making a solo Q. I think making a PM lobby is more important than making a solo Q.
I agree that these are important.
I really do think that the current queue UI seems to have the pieces in place to allow two teams of five to form a queue group to ensure that they meet each other. If you can do it for Demogorgon, you can do it for Domination. Needs to happen.
I played a couple games last night. The first was pretty fair, maybe a little lopsided, but the second one was a tidal wave, I was just luckily on the tidal wave side. Things are gonna happen, it can't be avoided. I was reminded of a couple thoughts I'd had in the past:
1.) Solo Q Dom matches would be much more even if it was treated as a 10-man Q, then the players are all divided up based matchmaking data to make both teams as equal as possible. With premade groups this idea is utterly useless and not worth mentioning, but a bunch of solos would work beautifully. You could even balance out high power Duo teams, usually.
2.) I may be tarred and feathered for saying this, but I *like* being on teams with wildly different power levels! Of course that's assuming the other team is the same. It adds a tactical dimension where players need to pick their battles and do what makes more sense for their character/team. The weaker characters can play as skirmishers, frustrating the enemy, camping their nodes, etc., while the beefier characters can hold the front line. Also, as a mid-power character, your role can change from game to game. Sometimes you can help carry a weaker team, other times, you need to be more tactical and support a stronger team. It keeps matches fresher.
Ya, that really would kill off PVP for everyone except the BIS players. Without matchmaking, nobody sane is going to queue up to waste time getting stomped with no reward.
If people are going in just for the measly rewards, then the devs should find a different way to give them those rewards and reserve PVP rewards for people who actually want to PVP and be good at it. PVP is already killed off essentially for multiple reasons. They are trying to be creative and come up with potential solutions.
It's very easy to point out exactly where PVP went wrong. Firstly, tenacity... it should be given to all players freely and not be gear dependent. Secondly, gear/boon gap... having full mythics/legendaries/mounts and rank 10 boons is a huge factor in PVP. Thirdly, never fixing certain broken classes in PVP. For entire mods there will be one OP class that literally wrecks every other class and the devs let it go on for a full mod every mod. Lastly but perhaps most importantly the Q system. Matching 2K IL with 4K IL, matching full PMs vs. Pugs. These are the things that killed PVP.
Rewarding people for playing well or for hoping to improve is not going to kill PVP, it will however remove people who don't care about PVP, they just want a few measly AD for the attempt. I would ask, should you get a consolation prize for not being able to defeat bosses in PVE? Because it's basically the same thing.
One problem, is that the rewards aren't necessarily measly. I'm sure that to the BiS/end-game guilds, they might seem so. But, there are a lot of players that haven't managed to be able to get more than 3 - 5 levels in the PvP boon campaign. If I can't compete with the players that populate PvP, how am I ever supposed to get better? I need those "measly rewards" to get better gear. I need EVERY little bit of AD I can scrounge to upgrade my artifacts & enchants. I, for one, am hoping that this lil experiment is finally going to push me over the hump into PvP being something I can enjoy, & maybe even be good at. Up until now, it's been nothing but one more grind. & unlike the other campaigns, where you can measure your progress, PvP seemed like an un-ending task.
I know that this week-long experiment is not the final solution to the problems PvP has been experiencing. But I am hopeful that we can take this, learn from it, & build a better PvP. For everybody.
Ya, that really would kill off PVP for everyone except the BIS players. Without matchmaking, nobody sane is going to queue up to waste time getting stomped with no reward.
If people are going in just for the measly rewards, then the devs should find a different way to give them those rewards and reserve PVP rewards for people who actually want to PVP and be good at it. PVP is already killed off essentially for multiple reasons. They are trying to be creative and come up with potential solutions.
It's very easy to point out exactly where PVP went wrong. Firstly, tenacity... it should be given to all players freely and not be gear dependent. Secondly, gear/boon gap... having full mythics/legendaries/mounts and rank 10 boons is a huge factor in PVP. Thirdly, never fixing certain broken classes in PVP. For entire mods there will be one OP class that literally wrecks every other class and the devs let it go on for a full mod every mod. Lastly but perhaps most importantly the Q system. Matching 2K IL with 4K IL, matching full PMs vs. Pugs. These are the things that killed PVP.
Rewarding people for playing well or for hoping to improve is not going to kill PVP, it will however remove people who don't care about PVP, they just want a few measly AD for the attempt. I would ask, should you get a consolation prize for not being able to defeat bosses in PVE? Because it's basically the same thing.
One problem, is that the rewards aren't necessarily measly. I'm sure that to the BiS/end-game guilds, they might seem so. But, there are a lot of players that haven't managed to be able to get more than 3 - 5 levels in the PvP boon campaign. If I can't compete with the players that populate PvP, how am I ever supposed to get better? I need those "measly rewards" to get better gear. I need EVERY little bit of AD I can scrounge to upgrade my artifacts & enchants. I, for one, am hoping that this lil experiment is finally going to push me over the hump into PvP being something I can enjoy, & maybe even be good at. Up until now, it's been nothing but one more grind. & unlike the other campaigns, where you can measure your progress, PvP seemed like an un-ending task.
I know that this week-long experiment is not the final solution to the problems PvP has been experiencing. But I am hopeful that we can take this, learn from it, & build a better PvP. For everybody.
You really should just invest in the tarmalune bar PVP gear, as all beginning PVPers should now. They basically give you two pieces of end game PVP gear for dirt cheap. The other pieces can be purchased off the auction house. This is the best way to get tenacity gear and avoid the hazing process of trying to get glory for gear.
However they should simply give all players tenacity on their character sheet imho. It shouldn't be something you have to earn through a hazing ritual.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
When we say the reward is worthless is because is worthless.. And it was so when we were 2.5k too
And yet, one of the biggest complaints I see form the PvP guild pre-mades, " why do I hafta keeps playings with all dese no-gearz newb scrubz" ... How do we get gear? Winning matches. How do we win matches? Get better gear. Ugh. Don't even get me started on the artifacts/enchants. I KNOW the gear I can get with glory is sub-par, BTW. But it's better than going into a fight naked. PVE gear is WORSE than going into a fight naked. More like going into a fight naked, with one arm broken & blindfolded.
Ya, that really would kill off PVP for everyone except the BIS players. Without matchmaking, nobody sane is going to queue up to waste time getting stomped with no reward.
If people are going in just for the measly rewards, then the devs should find a different way to give them those rewards and reserve PVP rewards for people who actually want to PVP and be good at it. PVP is already killed off essentially for multiple reasons. They are trying to be creative and come up with potential solutions.
It's very easy to point out exactly where PVP went wrong. Firstly, tenacity... it should be given to all players freely and not be gear dependent. Secondly, gear/boon gap... having full mythics/legendaries/mounts and rank 10 boons is a huge factor in PVP. Thirdly, never fixing certain broken classes in PVP. For entire mods there will be one OP class that literally wrecks every other class and the devs let it go on for a full mod every mod. Lastly but perhaps most importantly the Q system. Matching 2K IL with 4K IL, matching full PMs vs. Pugs. These are the things that killed PVP.
Rewarding people for playing well or for hoping to improve is not going to kill PVP, it will however remove people who don't care about PVP, they just want a few measly AD for the attempt. I would ask, should you get a consolation prize for not being able to defeat bosses in PVE? Because it's basically the same thing.
One problem, is that the rewards aren't necessarily measly. I'm sure that to the BiS/end-game guilds, they might seem so. But, there are a lot of players that haven't managed to be able to get more than 3 - 5 levels in the PvP boon campaign. If I can't compete with the players that populate PvP, how am I ever supposed to get better? I need those "measly rewards" to get better gear. I need EVERY little bit of AD I can scrounge to upgrade my artifacts & enchants. I, for one, am hoping that this lil experiment is finally going to push me over the hump into PvP being something I can enjoy, & maybe even be good at. Up until now, it's been nothing but one more grind. & unlike the other campaigns, where you can measure your progress, PvP seemed like an un-ending task.
I know that this week-long experiment is not the final solution to the problems PvP has been experiencing. But I am hopeful that we can take this, learn from it, & build a better PvP. For everybody.
You really should just invest in the tarmalune bar PVP gear, as all beginning PVPers should now. They basically give you two pieces of end game PVP gear for dirt cheap. The other pieces can be purchased off the auction house. This is the best way to get tenacity gear and avoid the hazing process of trying to get glory for gear.
However they should simply give all players tenacity on their character sheet imho. It shouldn't be something you have to earn through a hazing ritual.
Thanks for this advice. I'm about to get my VIP. Once I start opening Lockboxes, I'll look into that.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
You really should just invest in the tarmalune bar PVP gear, as all beginning PVPers should now. They basically give you two pieces of end game PVP gear for dirt cheap. The other pieces can be purchased off the auction house. This is the best way to get tenacity gear and avoid the hazing process of trying to get glory for gear.
However they should simply give all players tenacity on their character sheet imho. It shouldn't be something you have to earn through a hazing ritual.
Thanks for this advice. I'm about to get my VIP. Once I start opening Lockboxes, I'll look into that.
The basic blue PvP equipment you can buy with guild marks is better than nothing, and with double guild marks going on right now, may not be difficult to afford a set right away.
Once you have some tradebars, you can replace pieces with Warborn.
Comments
so players who run premades whenever they want all of the sudden now run solo whenever they want? isnt it odd? lack of consistency? lazyness? fear? did you try premade que now or you are talking about old experience?
honest question ... how many players still asking for premade lobby que now? Isnt it that only few guys at synergy constantly pushing this subject only?
we will see how it goes, still 6 days before us
Matching ilvl to ilvl would be a good place to start. Just like low level PvP is broken down into levels by 10.
The fact that you're complaining that PVPers are taking part in a PVP event really sums up your actual argument to me. I think it's pretty obvious that it's not about the Q system, it's that you wish BIS PVPers would simply disappear. This is the tone that I'm catching and, tbh you're probably not alone. I mean who likes to get wrekt vs. higher geared players? The problem is, it's going to happen in any PVP format unless they take IL/Gear/Boons into account or if they were to listen to players and ask that Tenacity be put on all players and that boons/mounts etc become less of a factor.
These are really the only ways to solve it. Making a solo Q isn't suddenly going to fix PVP, is that what you thought would happen? I don't even know what to make of your statements at this point. Except, perhaps you think all BIS PVPers should not Q for solo Q?
*Queues for Solo Domination
Requests to force losing sides to still participate in a game have popped up in the past over and over again. Leaver penalty, repel AFKers off nodes, strip rewards, all sorts of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It's 50% griefing and 50% the lack of a true competitive system.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
I would also add that, this is a Solo Q event, thus even people who prefer Premade PVP are going to try it out. The fact you're salty about it shows that you must not have thought this through? or that when the game changes people change with it? I'm still not sure where you're going with this. It's not like PMers suddenly got a Lobby for PMs and now they're not using it. It's just that Solo Q became a thing and all PVPers are testing the waters.
Ideally matchmaking and a clever queue structure would separate the BIS from the casuals anyway, but that's still a lot of work.
No complaining about either 4k BiS players who are liable to wipe the floor with everyone else, *or* about someone who's going to get 600 points and stop trying. Just deal with each match as it comes, for good or ill.
I think that it's important that everyone who has an interest in the outcome should participate. If none of the BiS players take part, whatever data Cryptic is collecting from the event isn't going to represent who would use this if it were a permanent feature.
I think the only way to have... hmm... playground PvP? would be to make it an entirely different game mode, with everyone completely stripped. But I doubt it would be worth the effort, honestly. And it's a weirdly contradictory concept. I guess like nonalcoholic beer. Some people just want the taste with none of the other effects.
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I think getting rid of players who only want the "free" ad from PVP is important as well. There are a number of issues we could discuss to make PVP better or more fun. I don't, however, think it's realistic to expect a solo Q to suddenly be somehow different than what already exists without changing requirements to get into it.
I really do think that the current queue UI seems to have the pieces in place to allow two teams of five to form a queue group to ensure that they meet each other. If you can do it for Demogorgon, you can do it for Domination. Needs to happen.
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1.) Solo Q Dom matches would be much more even if it was treated as a 10-man Q, then the players are all divided up based matchmaking data to make both teams as equal as possible. With premade groups this idea is utterly useless and not worth mentioning, but a bunch of solos would work beautifully. You could even balance out high power Duo teams, usually.
2.) I may be tarred and feathered for saying this, but I *like* being on teams with wildly different power levels! Of course that's assuming the other team is the same. It adds a tactical dimension where players need to pick their battles and do what makes more sense for their character/team. The weaker characters can play as skirmishers, frustrating the enemy, camping their nodes, etc., while the beefier characters can hold the front line. Also, as a mid-power character, your role can change from game to game. Sometimes you can help carry a weaker team, other times, you need to be more tactical and support a stronger team. It keeps matches fresher.
I know that this week-long experiment is not the final solution to the problems PvP has been experiencing. But I am hopeful that we can take this, learn from it, & build a better PvP. For everybody.
However they should simply give all players tenacity on their character sheet imho. It shouldn't be something you have to earn through a hazing ritual.
Once you have some tradebars, you can replace pieces with Warborn.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia