While I agree it IS (or at least was) possible for F2P players to eventually 'catch up' to the credit card warriors... my entire point is that it is no longer feasible or even possible.
For the record, it is. The meta has changed though. Still, the new method is considerably simpler.
To buy/upgrade pvp gear requires you to gain glory and seals, and they cannot be had when you are constantly 'matched' with those you have absolutely no chance to compete with. It isn't 'on occasion'... it isn't 'the exception'... it is almost constantly an issue. And yet the 'fix' is so simple, it's frustrating.
Which is why I mentioned in my previous comment that something has to be done about the issue.
So how do you fix it? While it is certainly not a perfect solution, there IS never the less an easy answer. Make pvp queue single person only, no group entries. Meaning, you can't join as a 'pre-made' 5 person team.
This does NOT solve the issue. The ELO system is obviously not working very well atm, so your solution simply introduces a new scenario - there's now a chance someone with good gear is going to end up in a group with people using greens and who barely even know what they're supposed to be doing in PvP. And then that player is forced to watch as his team very slowly loses, because the enemy team has more experienced/skilled people. This was the case pre-mod 3-4, mostly during peak hours when the matching system was a lot more random. It was HELL for everyone.
Since you claim to be a rational person then surely you must be able to figure out for yourself that only a small number of well-geared people playing the game are actually whales. It's common sense - if you're filthy rich, then there's A LOT of flashier, more entertaining but relatively expensive games you could be playing right now. Hell these people should be enjoying a luxury cruise instead of playing an F2P game on a Sunday, based on how much money you people claim they're spending on the game. Besides whales the list of well-geared people include old F2Pers, clever RL money spenders, people who play the game legitimately but use underhanded tactics like kicking undesirables off the party, and bug abusers. These a very diverse bunch, so they normally don't join queues as a party. What this means is that a big part of why you always seem to land in a group against geared well-people is because of the RNG. Your solution does absolutely nothing to remedy this. Given your luck, there's STILL a very good chance that you're going to end up facing an enemy group with legendaries/mythicals simply because (as I mentioned )there's a LOT of old F2P players (among others) running around with ~4k and higher iLvL.
A better solution is needed, which is why I also mentioned that the devs badly needed to think this one through for everyone's sake. Apparently that's what the PvP Alpha testing forums is for.
So those credit card warriors will have to face one another, ergo... people of equal gear, and the rest of us have a chance to get on a winning team in order to gain the seals and glory we need to 'catch up'.
It's starting to get annoying being lumped with the "credit card warriors". And mildly insulting, for everyone involved.
Post edited by tyrtallow on
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
The easiest fix would be to just add a queue where no gear, no enchantments, no boons, no weapons, no items, no companions, nothing at all counts for the match except your base attributes, powers and feats, and pure skill.
All mounts in PVP should be set to the same speed, and any equip bonuses removed.
I don't think all gear should be made equal (otherwise there's no progression), but I do think some restrictions are really needed, e.g. people at level 10 should not be able to use rank 12 enchantments. And yes, that does happen.
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
Geez...
I am no powerhouse
But
People develop a Char for PVP and should not be penalized to help out players who only play for the AD
Your right pvp is so broken and I don't think cryptic care that's some take advantage of broken feats/boons to gain an unbelievable advantage it a like to exploiting no difference in my opinion. The gap in item level is laughable and those that exploited Ad before the change are the ones with high item level. The only way to get this changed is when you get in a match with one side that's totally slaughtering you is to not fight and not fight if your on a winning side that is slaughtering to show that you want fair even matches its this or boycott pvp till they change it as they cannot test pvp them selves cryptic or they would see the laughable joke that pvp has become and the huge no massive unbalance. Cryptic do you even care about people who exploit all the broken and feats enchants ect to get a silly advantage or the class unbalance? I guess not or you would have sorted it long ago. Its sad as pvp could be great in this game and a tonne more would join in if it was fair and balanced.
This does NOT solve the issue. The ELO system is obviously not working very well atm, so your solution simply introduces a new scenario - there's now a chance someone with good gear is going to end up in a group with people using greens and who barely even know what they're supposed to be doing in PvP. And then that player is forced to watch as his team very slowly loses, because the enemy team has more experienced/skilled people.
As was clearly stated, the proposed 'solution' is not ideal. It is, however, leaps and bounds better than what we have now. If a max geared player does not 'want to watch his team lose', he can simply queue during the times when he can enter as a group. He at least, has a choice. Those without max everything, have no choice. And my idea at least gives them a chance to obtain seals/glory to buy/improve their gear. Something they don't have now.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Cheapest route to be pvp viable has always been through whatever op class is out there. right now rolling a OP.. getting a boatload of recovery (as much as you can) and sit around trolling people with dp on as far as you can in perma.
Its a WHOLE heck of a bunch cheaper then gearing out a 4k dps monster right now.
We have gone round and round and around on that.. almost every class (or most of them) have had their moments like this.. several variations of gwf (though none better then the old deep gash monster honestly (bam...bam..bam.....bbbbbamm) dead as you ran around the screen =P , a couple trs, a couple hr builds ect.
These all had feats/class balance issues that made them far cheaper to compete with.. which make them popular, which in turn, also made them nerfed.
Nothing is new really, this happens every few months.
MAKE pvp rewarding and you will see tons of people queue. Just like ncl.. of course at the start it sux, as you need to settle your elo in and of course people complain about it because some matches are wacked.. but at the height of ncl.. it worked REALLY well.. with most matches, pretty even actually.
Instead of making teirs, I would simply make a SOLO queue and a premade queue. That would solve more issues actually.
(and p.s.) I was a tiered fan for awhile, but I dont think that would solve the issue anymore.
The easiest fix would be to just add a queue where no gear, no enchantments, no boons, no weapons, no items, no companions, nothing at all counts for the match except your base attributes, powers and feats, and pure skill.
Wouldnt that make e everybody squishy, and winning by who first shoots?
The easiest fix would be to just add a queue where no gear, no enchantments, no boons, no weapons, no items, no companions, nothing at all counts for the match except your base attributes, powers and feats, and pure skill.
Wouldnt that make e everybody squishy, and winning by who first shoots?
...apart from the bubbladins, but you could wait that out. :^D
I guess it'd be something like standardized gear. But it won't probably happen, C wouldn't harm their income.
We can complain all we want, but, for as long as there are so limited new players playing pvp, there's just no way to balance match making. You'll notice that if you are well below on item level, it takes forever to find a match and when you do, you end up facing pre-mades. While if you are at 3k level it only takes at most 10 mins is queue to get a match. We first have to get what new pvp players think of our pvp system, which will probably around the lines that there are 2 classes in pvp that are just OP and these 2 classes make up about half the pvp players population.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
We can complain all we want, but, for as long as there are so limited new players playing pvp, there's just no way to balance match making. You'll notice that if you are well below on item level, it takes forever to find a match and when you do, you end up facing pre-mades. While if you are at 3k level it only takes at most 10 mins is queue to get a match. We first have to get what new pvp players think of our pvp system, which will probably around the lines that there are 2 classes in pvp that are just OP and these 2 classes make up about half the pvp players population.
But that is my whole point, I am a new player. Only been playing a couple months and running into the problem of not being able to 'catch up' unless I am willing to spend a great deal of money. In any F2P (P2W) game, there has always existed ways for the F2P players to 'catch up' to the credit card warriors. It was tedious, and took time, but it was possible. This game doesn't have that possibility and a simple change would fix that.
I agree with any solution that changes the queuing for pvp. Either eliminate group queuing, or, as was suggested by someone else, add an additional queue where it is either a group join or a solo join, where all other players in that queue (and therefore the eventual match) queued the same way.
I agree, it is not an ideal solution... I am not sure I know an ideal solution. But it IS a simple and viable solution to the problem of having solo (pug) groups 'matched' with pre-made fully maxxed players that simply slaughter them. To me, it's a matter of incentive. As a newer player you have to expect there to be 'growing pains'. You're going to get your butt handed to you by people who have played longer and therefore progressed further than you have... that much is a given. But it's worth doing, if eventually... down the road... you're able to compete with these more senior players.
If you provide the incentive, people will make the effort. Case in point, how many people got leadership to level 25 when it offered the AD? Give incentive to newer players to go to pvp, and you'll see a lot more make the effort to be able to compete will ALL players. It's simple, it's logical, and in the end, you end up with a much larger base for which to form an 'ideal' solution. With the divison of the 'haves' and the 'have nots' so wide, there's simply no incentive for newer (or even non pvp geared older players) to even want to venture into pvp.
We can complain all we want, but, for as long as there are so limited new players playing pvp, there's just no way to balance match making. You'll notice that if you are well below on item level, it takes forever to find a match and when you do, you end up facing pre-mades. While if you are at 3k level it only takes at most 10 mins is queue to get a match. We first have to get what new pvp players think of our pvp system, which will probably around the lines that there are 2 classes in pvp that are just OP and these 2 classes make up about half the pvp players population.
Oh, but there would.
When queueing, offer a selection dialog:
-------------------------------- [ ] - Fast match assignment / shortest wait [ ] - Stringent ILvl matching -------------------------------- [ ] - Avoid preformed teams [ } - Allow preformed teams [ ] - Prefer preformed teams --------------------------------
...might lead to you doing all your dailies while in queue limbo, but fairly simple to implement, and it'd do the trick.
We can complain all we want, but, for as long as there are so limited new players playing pvp, there's just no way to balance match making. You'll notice that if you are well below on item level, it takes forever to find a match and when you do, you end up facing pre-mades. While if you are at 3k level it only takes at most 10 mins is queue to get a match. We first have to get what new pvp players think of our pvp system, which will probably around the lines that there are 2 classes in pvp that are just OP and these 2 classes make up about half the pvp players population.
Oh, but there would.
When queueing, offer a selection dialog:
-------------------------------- [ ] - Fast match assignment / shortest wait [ ] - Stringent ILvl matching -------------------------------- [ ] - Avoid preformed teams [ } - Allow preformed teams [ ] - Prefer preformed teams --------------------------------
...might lead to you doing all your dailies while in queue limbo, but fairly simple to implement, and it'd do the trick.
This is pretty much how it feels when you are at around 3k ilvl, you rarely get grouped with super low ilvl people. I think the problem is since you end up in queue for such a long time, the match making just sends you out to what ever group is available.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
We can complain all we want, but, for as long as there are so limited new players playing pvp, there's just no way to balance match making. You'll notice that if you are well below on item level, it takes forever to find a match and when you do, you end up facing pre-mades. While if you are at 3k level it only takes at most 10 mins is queue to get a match. We first have to get what new pvp players think of our pvp system, which will probably around the lines that there are 2 classes in pvp that are just OP and these 2 classes make up about half the pvp players population.
But that is my whole point, I am a new player. Only been playing a couple months and running into the problem of not being able to 'catch up' unless I am willing to spend a great deal of money. In any F2P (P2W) game, there has always existed ways for the F2P players to 'catch up' to the credit card warriors. It was tedious, and took time, but it was possible. This game doesn't have that possibility and a simple change would fix that.
I agree with any solution that changes the queuing for pvp. Either eliminate group queuing, or, as was suggested by someone else, add an additional queue where it is either a group join or a solo join, where all other players in that queue (and therefore the eventual match) queued the same way.
I agree, it is not an ideal solution... I am not sure I know an ideal solution. But it IS a simple and viable solution to the problem of having solo (pug) groups 'matched' with pre-made fully maxxed players that simply slaughter them. To me, it's a matter of incentive. As a newer player you have to expect there to be 'growing pains'. You're going to get your butt handed to you by people who have played longer and therefore progressed further than you have... that much is a given. But it's worth doing, if eventually... down the road... you're able to compete with these more senior players.
If you provide the incentive, people will make the effort. Case in point, how many people got leadership to level 25 when it offered the AD? Give incentive to newer players to go to pvp, and you'll see a lot more make the effort to be able to compete will ALL players. It's simple, it's logical, and in the end, you end up with a much larger base for which to form an 'ideal' solution. With the divison of the 'haves' and the 'have nots' so wide, there's simply no incentive for newer (or even non pvp geared older players) to even want to venture into pvp.
This has been suggested so many times already. I'm pretty sure this is obviously a good idea, but I'm also pretty sure we don't have the population needed to sustain this kind of matchmaking process. You'll end up with a queue that lasts hours.
BTW you guys need to review the pre-mades queue, I get mistaken for being in a pre-made team all the time. I always know it will happen because after a 30 min queue I end up in a team where everyone is wearing perfect negation and perfect vorpal/feytouched/terror, when I check opponent line-up, everyone is around 2k ilvl, we're not premade, i think this is just one of those match making algorithms going haywire because queue was taking to long.
Post edited by oliboyph on
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
- Imbalanced PvP leads to gang[Censor will eat this anyway]-matches. - Low- and mid-gear solo players (especially newer ones) barely get points, Glory and Seals of Triumph - They are frustrated and stop PvPing, - Population declines - Rinse - Repeat
Somewhere someone has to break this vicious cycle...
This has been suggested so many times already. I'm pretty sure this is obviously a good idea, but I'm also pretty sure we don't have the population needed to sustain this kind of matchmaking process. You'll end up with a queue that lasts hours.
BTW you guys need to review the pre-mades queue, I get mistaken for being in a pre-made team all the time. I always know it will happen because after a 30 min queue I end up in a team where everyone is wearing perfect negation and perfect vorpal/feytouched/terror, when I check opponent line-up, everyone is around 2k ilvl, we're not premade, i think this is just one of those match making algorithms going haywire because queue was taking to long.
It's funny you mentioned this... I've had a few people on these over powered teams tell me they solo queued. But you're right, whatever 'system' is used to set up these matches, tends to put all the people with higher gear/item levels on one team. Obviously, this leads to a mismatch and my 'team' ends up sitting in SZ after the first minute or so.
- Imbalanced PvP leads to gang[Censor will eat this anyway]-matches. - Low- and mid-gear solo players (especially newer ones) barely get points, Glory and Seals of Triumph - They are frustrated and stop PvPing, - Population declines - Rinse - Repeat
Somewhere someone has to break this vicious cycle...
I believe this is what is happening now, which is why I made the suggestion for the different queue. I didn't know it had been suggested earlier, but I should have figured. Most days, it takes me 10 or more matches to get my daily seal for a victory. To say it's frustrating, is an understatement. I would have thought, if people have mentioned this before, some sort of 'fix' would have been implemented. I guess that was just a pipe dream.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
implement separated que and bring it to live with new NCL. problem solved. nothing is more easy as this
I'd say at the very most 1 in 10 matches are playable because of the lack of matching. In most cases it's obvious within 30 seconds (after your team are all one shotted before capping anything) that you have no chance. Sometimes the premade teams won't even allow you to cap after this and will just stomp on you if you leave camp, meaning a 30 min ban or just sitting there doing nothing for no reward at all.
I'd say at the very most 1 in 10 matches are playable because of the lack of matching. In most cases it's obvious within 30 seconds (after your team are all one shotted before capping anything) that you have no chance. Sometimes the premade teams won't even allow you to cap after this and will just stomp on you if you leave camp, meaning a 30 min ban or just sitting there doing nothing for no reward at all.
Those are probably not premades. Most premades will let you cap so you can have your AD reward. Those are probably players that have been heavily stomped previously and ended up in an uber team and just want to get their revenge on someone else lol.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
I'd say at the very most 1 in 10 matches are playable because of the lack of matching. In most cases it's obvious within 30 seconds (after your team are all one shotted before capping anything) that you have no chance. Sometimes the premade teams won't even allow you to cap after this and will just stomp on you if you leave camp, meaning a 30 min ban or just sitting there doing nothing for no reward at all.
Those are probably not premades. Most premades will let you cap so you can have your AD reward. Those are probably players that have been heavily stomped previously and ended up in an uber team and just want to get their revenge on someone else lol.
its not true anymore. most players at uber dominating team just want collect as many kills as they can at that time not matter what. not only pugs but pvp guilds too
really? most premades I come across would always tell us to come cap once we say gg. BTW I will always say that you guys need to keep checking if teams you are playing against are in fact premade. It's very common for match making will group up people with high ilvl pvp gear together.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
really, last month i have several caping on last seconds after long begging, proving, explaining
...while there are premades that let you capture to get your reward, then kill you, cap again...
...there's also those whose epeen needs so much stroking...
LOL, I always seem to get 'matched up' with the people with 'needy epeens'. I've had 3+ people chasing me around the entire map over and over, desperate for a kill, because the rest of my team has given up and won't leave the SZ. When I go with my TR, I let them chase me and taunt them because they can't catch/kill me. It's the exception rather than the rule, when I find an over powered team that trades caps. It does happen, but maybe 1 in 10 times. The rest of the times you get the entire enemy team sitting right outside where you spawn just dying for one of your team mates to set foot outside. It's absolutely hilarious to watch them spam CC and gank a single much lower geared player. So ya, these teams I purposely taunt and make chase me, lol. Yes, I know that makes me a b____, but hey, I figure they deserve it for being so pathetic.
I'd say at the very most 1 in 10 matches are playable because of the lack of matching. In most cases it's obvious within 30 seconds (after your team are all one shotted before capping anything) that you have no chance. Sometimes the premade teams won't even allow you to cap after this and will just stomp on you if you leave camp, meaning a 30 min ban or just sitting there doing nothing for no reward at all.
Those are probably not premades. Most premades will let you cap so you can have your AD reward. Those are probably players that have been heavily stomped previously and ended up in an uber team and just want to get their revenge on someone else lol.
They're usually from the well known pvp guilds, and who group in 3s to avoid going against other premades, i.e. to pug stomp.
I'd say at the very most 1 in 10 matches are playable because of the lack of matching. In most cases it's obvious within 30 seconds (after your team are all one shotted before capping anything) that you have no chance. Sometimes the premade teams won't even allow you to cap after this and will just stomp on you if you leave camp, meaning a 30 min ban or just sitting there doing nothing for no reward at all.
Those are probably not premades. Most premades will let you cap so you can have your AD reward. Those are probably players that have been heavily stomped previously and ended up in an uber team and just want to get their revenge on someone else lol.
They're usually from the well known pvp guilds, and who group in 3s to avoid going against other premades, i.e. to pug stomp.
This is what I'm trying to say. We keep saying that what needs to happen in pvp is separating premades from pugs, but on the other hand we avoid being in premades so we don't have to face off against other premades. I think the separation of premades from pugs is already happening, something else is wrong with pvp match making. Another suggestion is separating players in terms of per item level, which sounds like a good idea, I just don't think we will be happy with the result (1 hour queue).
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
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lonewolfmk1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
There is a simple solution to the decline in pvp, basically 2 steps. First you need to make pvp rewarding again, i mean really rewarding, like the NCL event (which would have been a very good milestone to get PVP running again but as usual Cryptik missed the opportunity) only a step more (i am thinking about RP chests (BOA) or similar stuff). That should get more players intrested again in doing pvp. Then you can rework the que system so that you get more ballanced teams. Everybody wins.
I'd say at the very most 1 in 10 matches are playable because of the lack of matching. In most cases it's obvious within 30 seconds (after your team are all one shotted before capping anything) that you have no chance. Sometimes the premade teams won't even allow you to cap after this and will just stomp on you if you leave camp, meaning a 30 min ban or just sitting there doing nothing for no reward at all.
Those are probably not premades. Most premades will let you cap so you can have your AD reward. Those are probably players that have been heavily stomped previously and ended up in an uber team and just want to get their revenge on someone else lol.
They're usually from the well known pvp guilds, and who group in 3s to avoid going against other premades, i.e. to pug stomp.
This is what I'm trying to say. We keep saying that what needs to happen in pvp is separating premades from pugs, but on the other hand we avoid being in premades so we don't have to face off against other premades. I think the separation of premades from pugs is already happening, something else is wrong with pvp match making. Another suggestion is separating players in terms of per item level, which sounds like a good idea, I just don't think we will be happy with the result (1 hour queue).
A premade of 3 is still a premade, especially when they're 3.5k+ against pugs.
I've noticed lately that it's very rare to see people below 2.3k or so at all any more. This is quite clearly because people know that you'll get stomped and it's a total waste of time.
As I was told off about starting a separate thread here's what I said elsewhere slightly updated in light of the discussion:
I have been thinking about PVP and the matching system for some time. It appears the system doesn't really take into account how powerful characters are in order to match them up and perhaps this cannot be fixed (the examples here are pretty much normal experience for anyone doing PVP). This leads to crazy imbalances. Rarely is a match challenging but winable. It tends to be a kerb-stomp for one side or the other (although I did have a lovely 1999 to 2000 win with 9 v 10 - the person on our side having left when we were 100 points behind 400 to 500 - a clear sign of the reaction many people have to this problem). My proposal to fix this is simple - introduce a gated epic pvp. I would suggest if you have a 3k pvp version for domination, gg, and maybe even stronghold with a minimum tenacity level perhaps also that would got a long way to restoring balance. Now of course a 2,999 IL character will still kick a 1.6k IL character around the block, but just not as much as 4.1k character. And yes, some people around the 3k border might remove an enchant or two to drop back below. But frankly it is still a lot better. The draw back is that perhaps initially there will be longer q times (fewer people in the two brackets) but I would imagine because it will make PVP more fun there will be more people PVPing. I have had feedback from a lot of people that the experience of being utterly helpless in PVP put them off permanently. I think this would be a great way of fixing this and keeping the PVP interesting for higher IL people. Some people have suggested there be more brackets. I don't agree with that. The q is already too long, and I think this alone will be a huge step in the right direction. Once you get more people pvping again you could refine it further but there is definitely a massive step up in power around 3k, where it goes from "this is hard" to "this is ridiculous".
Comments
The meta has changed though. Still, the new method is considerably simpler.
Which is why I mentioned in my previous comment that something has to be done about the issue.
Wrong. This does NOT solve the issue. The ELO system is obviously not working very well atm, so your solution simply introduces a new scenario - there's now a chance someone with good gear is going to end up in a group with people using greens and who barely even know what they're supposed to be doing in PvP. And then that player is forced to watch as his team very slowly loses, because the enemy team has more experienced/skilled people.
This was the case pre-mod 3-4, mostly during peak hours when the matching system was a lot more random. It was HELL for everyone.
Since you claim to be a rational person then surely you must be able to figure out for yourself that only a small number of well-geared people playing the game are actually whales. It's common sense - if you're filthy rich, then there's A LOT of flashier, more entertaining but relatively expensive games you could be playing right now. Hell these people should be enjoying a luxury cruise instead of playing an F2P game on a Sunday, based on how much money you people claim they're spending on the game.
Besides whales the list of well-geared people include old F2Pers, clever RL money spenders, people who play the game legitimately but use underhanded tactics like kicking undesirables off the party, and bug abusers. These a very diverse bunch, so they normally don't join queues as a party.
What this means is that a big part of why you always seem to land in a group against geared well-people is because of the RNG. Your solution does absolutely nothing to remedy this.
Given your luck, there's STILL a very good chance that you're going to end up facing an enemy group with legendaries/mythicals simply because (as I mentioned )there's a LOT of old F2P players (among others) running around with ~4k and higher iLvL.
A better solution is needed, which is why I also mentioned that the devs badly needed to think this one through for everyone's sake. Apparently that's what the PvP Alpha testing forums is for. It's starting to get annoying being lumped with the "credit card warriors". And mildly insulting, for everyone involved.
I don't think all gear should be made equal (otherwise there's no progression), but I do think some restrictions are really needed, e.g. people at level 10 should not be able to use rank 12 enchantments. And yes, that does happen.
I am no powerhouse
But
People develop a Char for PVP and should not be penalized to help out players who only play for the AD
Split the queues and leave the rest alone
Urlord
Cryptic do you even care about people who exploit all the broken and feats enchants ect to get a silly advantage or the class unbalance? I guess not or you would have sorted it long ago. Its sad as pvp could be great in this game and a tonne more would join in if it was fair and balanced.
Its a WHOLE heck of a bunch cheaper then gearing out a 4k dps monster right now.
We have gone round and round and around on that.. almost every class (or most of them) have had their moments like this.. several variations of gwf (though none better then the old deep gash monster honestly (bam...bam..bam.....bbbbbamm) dead as you ran around the screen =P , a couple trs, a couple hr builds ect.
These all had feats/class balance issues that made them far cheaper to compete with.. which make them popular, which in turn, also made them nerfed.
Nothing is new really, this happens every few months.
MAKE pvp rewarding and you will see tons of people queue. Just like ncl.. of course at the start it sux, as you need to settle your elo in and of course people complain about it because some matches are wacked.. but at the height of ncl.. it worked REALLY well.. with most matches, pretty even actually.
Instead of making teirs, I would simply make a SOLO queue and a premade queue. That would solve more issues actually.
(and p.s.) I was a tiered fan for awhile, but I dont think that would solve the issue anymore.
I guess it'd be something like standardized gear. But it won't probably happen, C wouldn't harm their income.
I agree with any solution that changes the queuing for pvp. Either eliminate group queuing, or, as was suggested by someone else, add an additional queue where it is either a group join or a solo join, where all other players in that queue (and therefore the eventual match) queued the same way.
I agree, it is not an ideal solution... I am not sure I know an ideal solution. But it IS a simple and viable solution to the problem of having solo (pug) groups 'matched' with pre-made fully maxxed players that simply slaughter them. To me, it's a matter of incentive. As a newer player you have to expect there to be 'growing pains'. You're going to get your butt handed to you by people who have played longer and therefore progressed further than you have... that much is a given. But it's worth doing, if eventually... down the road... you're able to compete with these more senior players.
If you provide the incentive, people will make the effort. Case in point, how many people got leadership to level 25 when it offered the AD? Give incentive to newer players to go to pvp, and you'll see a lot more make the effort to be able to compete will ALL players. It's simple, it's logical, and in the end, you end up with a much larger base for which to form an 'ideal' solution. With the divison of the 'haves' and the 'have nots' so wide, there's simply no incentive for newer (or even non pvp geared older players) to even want to venture into pvp.
When queueing, offer a selection dialog:
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[ ] - Fast match assignment / shortest wait
[ ] - Stringent ILvl matching
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[ ] - Avoid preformed teams
[ } - Allow preformed teams
[ ] - Prefer preformed teams
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...might lead to you doing all your dailies while in queue limbo, but fairly simple to implement, and it'd do the trick.
BTW you guys need to review the pre-mades queue, I get mistaken for being in a pre-made team all the time. I always know it will happen because after a 30 min queue I end up in a team where everyone is wearing perfect negation and perfect vorpal/feytouched/terror, when I check opponent line-up, everyone is around 2k ilvl, we're not premade, i think this is just one of those match making algorithms going haywire because queue was taking to long.
- Imbalanced PvP leads to gang[Censor will eat this anyway]-matches.
- Low- and mid-gear solo players (especially newer ones) barely get points, Glory and Seals of Triumph
- They are frustrated and stop PvPing,
- Population declines
- Rinse
- Repeat
Somewhere someone has to break this vicious cycle...
Most days, it takes me 10 or more matches to get my daily seal for a victory. To say it's frustrating, is an understatement. I would have thought, if people have mentioned this before, some sort of 'fix' would have been implemented. I guess that was just a pipe dream.
...there's also those whose epeen needs so much stroking...
When I go with my TR, I let them chase me and taunt them because they can't catch/kill me. It's the exception rather than the rule, when I find an over powered team that trades caps. It does happen, but maybe 1 in 10 times. The rest of the times you get the entire enemy team sitting right outside where you spawn just dying for one of your team mates to set foot outside. It's absolutely hilarious to watch them spam CC and gank a single much lower geared player. So ya, these teams I purposely taunt and make chase me, lol. Yes, I know that makes me a b____, but hey, I figure they deserve it for being so pathetic.
I've noticed lately that it's very rare to see people below 2.3k or so at all any more. This is quite clearly because people know that you'll get stomped and it's a total waste of time.
I have been thinking about PVP and the matching system for some time. It appears the system doesn't really take into account how powerful characters are in order to match them up and perhaps this cannot be fixed (the examples here are pretty much normal experience for anyone doing PVP). This leads to crazy imbalances. Rarely is a match challenging but winable. It tends to be a kerb-stomp for one side or the other (although I did have a lovely 1999 to 2000 win with 9 v 10 - the person on our side having left when we were 100 points behind 400 to 500 - a clear sign of the reaction many people have to this problem).
My proposal to fix this is simple - introduce a gated epic pvp. I would suggest if you have a 3k pvp version for domination, gg, and maybe even stronghold with a minimum tenacity level perhaps also that would got a long way to restoring balance. Now of course a 2,999 IL character will still kick a 1.6k IL character around the block, but just not as much as 4.1k character. And yes, some people around the 3k border might remove an enchant or two to drop back below. But frankly it is still a lot better.
The draw back is that perhaps initially there will be longer q times (fewer people in the two brackets) but I would imagine because it will make PVP more fun there will be more people PVPing. I have had feedback from a lot of people that the experience of being utterly helpless in PVP put them off permanently. I think this would be a great way of fixing this and keeping the PVP interesting for higher IL people.
Some people have suggested there be more brackets. I don't agree with that. The q is already too long, and I think this alone will be a huge step in the right direction. Once you get more people pvping again you could refine it further but there is definitely a massive step up in power around 3k, where it goes from "this is hard" to "this is ridiculous".