The AD changes are good, here are a few suggestions to round out the economy.

ltgamesttv

The changes to leadership AD have been massive and have lead to an overall healthier economy imho. The prices of everything are coming down on the market. The Zax is becoming more and more manageable. The changes to GMoPs are helping to make this transition fluid and bolster the economy more. The changes to awards from Dungeons, PVP, and Skirmishes are beginning to empower players who play the content (Although these could probably use a little bit more AD rewards it is something that can be adjusted on the fly). All this is good change. That said, there are a few vestigial AD sinks leftover from the Leadership AD sink, if these are remedied the economy will look even better imho.

Firstly, and most importantly, are the Stronghold coffers which are going to be very problematic considering the massive amounts of AD required for upgrading structures. These costs are obviously based on the prior model of AD gain. This is the first change that really needs to take place so that guilds do not find themselves against an AD wall while they're farming like mad for all the other coffer currencies based off of content.

Secondarily, there are bazaar market items with prices which still reflect the devalued AD from leadership inflation that need to be addressed. Things such as the mount upgrade tomes and various transmutes/items.

Thirdly, the cost to upgrade companions is highly inappropriate considering the new AD paradigm. 750k is an enormous sum of AD now and should quickly be reconsidered and adjusted. This is especially so with the new legendary upgrades that people hope to achieve with all their companions.

Lastly, transmutations are too expensive at this point 50k ad has become a large expenditure now. Everyone loves to make a character their own both during the character creation screen as well as afterwards by trying to change the appearance of their armor and dyes so as to be unique. The AD cost is too steep considering the goal of simply looking different from other players, and it needs to be reevaluated/reduced imho.

Preservation and Coalescent wards are becoming more manageable considering the changes to Zax associated with a decrease in AD expenditure. The drop rates on Coals and Pres wards from weekly invocation coffers should be reevaluated and perhaps increased imho to help aid in this transition to this new system.

If these changes are made, in combination with those already made we will finally see "New" Players sporting BIS or very nearly before long allowing for more fun PVE farming and more viable PVP players to contend with. All this combined is like a rebirth for NWO that will finally allow a relatively pain free advancement with the potential of realizing BIS gear and farming end game content from every spectrum.

Well done devs for the changes, thanks for listening to the players, and watching the market closely! Keep making those good decisions! Thanks for your time.

andorrabell

There needs to be a route to AD for solo players, sooner rather than later. This game should not require you to farm dungeon and skirmish content if you are a solo player.

I'd also like to see leadership fixed before the next expansion. It should take weeks not months to jazz it up, even if it needs to be a two step process (fix tasks that make NO SENSE now, re-evaluate everything later)

ltgamesttv

andorrabell said:

There needs to be a route to AD for solo players, sooner rather than later. This game should not require you to farm dungeon and skirmish content if you are a solo player.

I'd also like to see leadership fixed before the next expansion. It should take weeks not months to jazz it up, even if it needs to be a two step process (fix tasks that make NO SENSE now, re-evaluate everything later)

I would think AD for solo players in an MMO is a bit of a non sequitur. You gain AD by doing dungeons, skirmishes, quests, and PVP just like everyone else. As a solo player the main things you'll lose out on is the guild Stronghold and the increase of success in content that comes from not having to PUG for dungeons, PVP, and the like. That said, what changes in leadership would you like to see?

tripsofthrymr

tolkienbuff said:

I would think AD for solo players in an MMO is a bit of a non sequitur. You gain AD by doing dungeons, skirmishes, quests, and PVP just like everyone else.

I have heard this request many times over the past week or so. Personally I like the group content, but completely understand that some people are here more for the social experience or perhaps to run dailies with a friend/partner.

The game offers solo content, so it seems reasonable that AD should be obtainable that way. I think I saw one of the devs post that they're specifically looking at something for solo players too, but without a dev tracker and with the walls of forum posts, don't think I can find it now.

titanorion

My only gripe is that they took away the hour long events that happened throughout the day. I rather liked those and they gave me incentive to actually do the skirmishes and dungeons...

edit: Just to be clear I'm a relatively new player and I don't have any level 70s (or much of anything really) so the new system gives me some very scaled down rewards that, to be completely honest, are not rewarding at all.

santralafax

Tolkienbuff, you play your game, we'll play ours.

darkstarcrash

tolkienbuff said:

I would think AD for solo players in an MMO is a bit of a non sequitur. You gain AD by doing dungeons, skirmishes, quests, and PVP just like everyone else. As a solo player the main things you'll lose out on is the guild Stronghold and the increase of success in content that comes from not having to PUG for dungeons, PVP, and the like. That said, what changes in leadership would you like to see?

But "solo play" does not just mean anti-social, unguilded players.

What do you think Stronghold quests from the Builder, Ranger, and Master of Coin ("Sharandar Support" et al.) are? They are solo quests that are needed to build your guild's stronghold.

You can spend 45 minutes doing those, contributing to the guild but getting no rAD in return.

Or a social, grouping player who does not have all their boons will need to run campaign areas - again, with no rAD reward for their time spent.

santralafax

darkstarcrash said:

But "solo play" does not just mean anti-social, unguilded players.

Running Campaign lairs is a form of solo play--for boons, as a Stronghold request, or simply for fun.

The main thing that drew me to this game was the multi-level content. There were dungeons, campaigns, professions, PVP, role playing, etc. You could mix and match as you like. Everyone had their own way of enjoying the game: there was no right or wrong way.

Now SOME people would like to tell you what you can play.

I did campaigns, professions (yes Leadership AD from one character--WAI) and pvp. Leadership no longer pays anything and PVP only pays half the wages it used to. I'm told I can go "do dungeons...." And the variance of dungeons uh, isn't there. Campaigns continue to be an AD sink.

bilitheaxe66

tolkienbuff said:

andorrabell said:

There needs to be a route to AD for solo players, sooner rather than later. This game should not require you to farm dungeon and skirmish content if you are a solo player.

I'd also like to see leadership fixed before the next expansion. It should take weeks not months to jazz it up, even if it needs to be a two step process (fix tasks that make NO SENSE now, re-evaluate everything later)

I would think AD for solo players in an MMO is a bit of a non sequitur. You gain AD by doing dungeons, skirmishes, quests, and PVP just like everyone else. As a solo player the main things you'll lose out on is the guild Stronghold and the increase of success in content that comes from not having to PUG for dungeons, PVP, and the like. That said, what changes in leadership would you like to see?

It really is not that difficult of an answer. All of the story-line, and campaign, quests should also reward AD for their completion as it something that rewards everyone for playing the game.

santralafax

bilitheaxe66 said:

It really is not that difficult of an answer. All of the story-line, and campaign, quests should also reward AD for their completion as it something that rewards everyone for playing the game.

+1

ltgamesttv

santralafax said:

Tolkienbuff, you play your game, we'll play ours.

I can only guess that you took my statement as an insult and decided to retort. Firstly we both play the same game as is evident by the fact you're reading and posting in the Neverwinter forums. Secondarily, my statement was not meant to be an insult. I play as a "solo"player as well as a "guild" player. The difference I suppose was in terminology. If you mean by "solo" content that you don't need to be in a group at all in order to complete it, then I wasn't using that definition and I apologize for what seemed to be insulting. What I meant was you can play with "groups" while soloing in any PVE or PVP content by pugging. I think the reason that AD isn't granted by doing solo content is that there are other gains for those quests (i.e. campaign currency, boon progression, level specific gear, experience gains, gold, etc.). If you think that AD should be added to doing campaign quests repeatedly perhaps they will consider it but it may also has the potential to be botted imho if it's soloable content.

ltgamesttv

santralafax said:

darkstarcrash said:

But "solo play" does not just mean anti-social, unguilded players.

Running Campaign lairs is a form of solo play--for boons, as a Stronghold request, or simply for fun.

The main thing that drew me to this game was the multi-level content. There were dungeons, campaigns, professions, PVP, role playing, etc. You could mix and match as you like. Everyone had their own way of enjoying the game: there was no right or wrong way.

Now SOME people would like to tell you what you can play.

I did campaigns, professions (yes Leadership AD from one character--WAI) and pvp. Leadership no longer pays anything and PVP only pays half the wages it used to. I'm told I can go "do dungeons...." And the variance of dungeons uh, isn't there. Campaigns continue to be an AD sink.

I don't want to tell anyone how to play, I just think that people can now play most any type of endgame content (i.e. dungeons, skirmishes, PVP, etc.) and make AD. Invoking returns AD. Buying low and selling high makes AD. I do agree, and just recently posted, that they need to bring back all the old dungeons.

I am not opposed to AD associated with "solo" quests or campaigns but my concern is that they may be hesitant to do so because of the bot ability of solo quests, however this may just be my assumption.

vordayn

Hi Tolkienbuff, I'm not saying I initially agreed with the leadership changes, but there has been some positives to come out of it. I think your suggestions are good and I agree that the AD sinks need looking into now that leadership has been nerfed.

However, there are a few things besides your post that should get looked into also:

• Leadership: Some tasks e.g. the 24 hour one (Battle Elemental Cultists) give less rewards versus the 4 hour one (Guard Young Noble on Trip) by the way of -1000XP. We were told that the tasks which formerly gave AD would be more rewarding, but this has not eventuated. People who have spent months legitimately getting Leadership to level 25 have been screwed in more ways than the Leadership nerf to AD. Increased XP would be good to achieve those elusive power points, or perhaps more refinement stones or profession resources. Nothing game-breaking or bottable. To further prevent the botting of Leadership, making refinement stones Bind on Account may also help in the long-term.
  
• Rewarding solo players: Not everyone has the time or inclination to run queued content. Perhaps AD could be rewarded after finishing a set list of tasks (e.g. by Sergeant Knox at Dread Ring after doing 3/3 daily tasks). Each zone (IWD, Sharandar, WoD, DR) should have an AD reward for players who solo-play the daily tasks for that day. Hopefully by making the AD rewards task orientated (i.e. you need to speak with the correct person and complete a different set of tasks per day) it will make it less bottable.
  

bilitheaxe66

tolkienbuff said:

santralafax said:

darkstarcrash said:

But "solo play" does not just mean anti-social, unguilded players.

Running Campaign lairs is a form of solo play--for boons, as a Stronghold request, or simply for fun.

The main thing that drew me to this game was the multi-level content. There were dungeons, campaigns, professions, PVP, role playing, etc. You could mix and match as you like. Everyone had their own way of enjoying the game: there was no right or wrong way.

Now SOME people would like to tell you what you can play.

I did campaigns, professions (yes Leadership AD from one character--WAI) and pvp. Leadership no longer pays anything and PVP only pays half the wages it used to. I'm told I can go "do dungeons...." And the variance of dungeons uh, isn't there. Campaigns continue to be an AD sink.

I don't want to tell anyone how to play, I just think that people can now play most any type of endgame content (i.e. dungeons, skirmishes, PVP, etc.) and make AD. Invoking returns AD. Buying low and selling high makes AD. I do agree, and just recently posted, that they need to bring back all the old dungeons.

I am not opposed to AD associated with "solo" quests or campaigns but my concern is that they may be hesitant to do so because of the bot ability of solo quests, however this may just be my assumption.

I would say that it is an assumption on your part. If these changes were all about stopping bots, then Ghost Stories would have have locked down at the same time they made the LS change. Unless they add on a Deep Packet Inspection program that checks every hook-up to their game server, and have in game GM's, bots will exist. The changes have made little impact on bots and it does not take in to account that the currency sellers use a variety of methods to obtain their goods/currency. There are multi-boxers that will rotate from account to account and run group content all day long with 1 live body per 5 accounts as they do not solely use unattended automatons. Does that mean they should also remove quality drops and AD from group content?

The rationale behind adding AD to every quest is that it truly will benefit every player. Would even add in a bonus for actually completing every quest as a zone reward. The stated goal of these changes was to level the playing field and have players actually earn their AD by playing the game. Please show me how this simple suggestion is contrary to the stated goal?

phrendon

It costs too many AD to upgrade a companion or to train a horse to be faster. Why offer them if the costs are so high that no one is doing it? Either redesign or remove.

rayrdan

REINFORCEMENTS KITS, dont forget those.
1.4M ads everytime they introduce a new set.

rayrdan

bilitheaxe66 said:

tolkienbuff said:

andorrabell said:

There needs to be a route to AD for solo players, sooner rather than later. This game should not require you to farm dungeon and skirmish content if you are a solo player.

I'd also like to see leadership fixed before the next expansion. It should take weeks not months to jazz it up, even if it needs to be a two step process (fix tasks that make NO SENSE now, re-evaluate everything later)

I would think AD for solo players in an MMO is a bit of a non sequitur. You gain AD by doing dungeons, skirmishes, quests, and PVP just like everyone else. As a solo player the main things you'll lose out on is the guild Stronghold and the increase of success in content that comes from not having to PUG for dungeons, PVP, and the like. That said, what changes in leadership would you like to see?

It really is not that difficult of an answer. All of the story-line, and campaign, quests should also reward AD for their completion as it something that rewards everyone for playing the game.

MMO quests are so stupid any bot would be able to do them. its not going to happen

plasticbat

tolkienbuff said:

andorrabell said:

There needs to be a route to AD for solo players, sooner rather than later. This game should not require you to farm dungeon and skirmish content if you are a solo player.

I'd also like to see leadership fixed before the next expansion. It should take weeks not months to jazz it up, even if it needs to be a two step process (fix tasks that make NO SENSE now, re-evaluate everything later)

I would think AD for solo players in an MMO is a bit of a non sequitur. You gain AD by doing dungeons, skirmishes, quests, and PVP just like everyone else. As a solo player the main things you'll lose out on is the guild Stronghold and the increase of success in content that comes from not having to PUG for dungeons, PVP, and the like. That said, what changes in leadership would you like to see?

You don't get AD from completing quests. If you can get AD from quests, a lot of people will be more happy.
If I have a new character to level up, I would be busy to do quests, getting boons instead of dungeon, skirmishes, etc. You don't get any AD doing so.

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deathbeez

I can not agree that the AD changes were good.

Maybe the AD sinks should of been reevaluated before the biggest source of AD was removed?
Leadership AD is gone, but we're discussing how to fix the economy after-the-fact. It's the chicken before the egg situation.

It's execution was sloppy and not well thought out, at all.

I'm not pointing fingers and certainly not blaming devs, but I am saying the decisions made that have pointed this game on the trajectory it's on had little to no foresite of the impacts they would cause and every discussion about this and related topics is nothing short of 100% damage control.
Shoot first, ask questions later is the reoccurring theme.

If a bomb as big as 'oh, we're removing AD crafting' is coming, there should be a clear roadmap to rectify an economy completely dependent on original monetary systems and plans to manage player-expectation fall-out. Instead we got a few 'we're looking into it.' And the leadership AD crafts are the same, minus the AD, even though tasks that take longer give less rewards. I'm sorry but my good detector must be malfunctioning.

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cjh1983

If by healthier, you mean, far fewer people playing, then yes, it's much healthier

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mattsacre

he should have EVERY activity give AD, just small incriments. This would allow every style of play to get the base currency.
1.Invoke? Welcome to the game today! here have 100 AD.

2.Turn in a quest? NPC:Good job, thanks for helping me out there, I'm a bit pressed for time and you helped my work load, here have 200AD, stop by later I could use some help with other things as well.

3.Run a dungeon? That dirty, rotten, meanie boss has been killing/robbing other adventurers, now that we have killed the boss in revenge, look what's in his treasure container (coffer,purse,backpack,corpse etc.), this gear and AD, sweet! Here is your cut, 1k AD.

4.Skirmish? NPC: Look guys, I gots me some troubles, I need "X guy" very much dead, if you can see to this task...I can see to you having 500AD for you when you return....we got a deal?

5.PvP? Oh look, now that I killed that pesky little TR that's been killing all my friends, I see why he was so tough to deal with, he had great gear! Well the PvP NPC is sure to give me some AD for this..sweet. NPC: This IS good gear..and I got a TR friend that would really like it too, how about 500AD, we got a deal? *shake hands*

So many players post here and say things like solo isn't play this is a MMO, well it might be not YOUR play, but it is someone else's play, who are you to devalue theirs for yours? Other players say this that or the other should or should not get this or that, who are they to judge...leadership AD was something they did, it was WAI, it was legit, now they say not *shrug* might have been too good, I'm not judging 50 alt armies, it was allowed, it was legit.

My premise is this, no play style is any more valid than another, as long as one doesn't take presidence over another who am I to judge? Right NOW, however, solo-content players are getting the shaft, this needs addressed, before other types. Then other content that is getting some AD should be looked at and balanced.

When it comes to doling out AD, they (devs) need to make every activity trickle out AD. It adds up, over time balances. To be idea, AD rewards should be a (TIME*LVL)= N(AD)AD per task, the task shouldn't matter, nor should your group status.

For a dedicated time expenditure there should be a exponential reward capped at an amount per day to avoid exploiting. I.E. Do 1x PvP,skirmish,dungeon,quest task = X amount of AD. Do 2x of the same, get 2x amount of AD, do it a 3rd time, don't get 3x get 4x AD. This will let someone hit max allowable AD per day rewards in a couple-few hours, then the spigot turned off to stop exploit.

theycallmetomu

Moreover, just from a historical perspective, MMOs typically reward play for solo play. You get cold. You use gold to buy HAMSTER. That's rewarding solo play.

It makes no sense not to reward solo play just because it's an MMO. The game isn't an MMO because it's trying to promote people being friends with one another ( ... Strongholds aside ...), it's an MMO because some suits apparently thought NWN3 wouldn't be profitable.

I hate them so much!

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theycallmetomu

It's less alt friendly than the previous module, but the previous module was that your alts not only funded whoever you were actively leveling, but also other characters, because you were frankly richer with multiple characters than with a single character.

So, yes, it's a paradigm shift, but I'd argue the previous paradigm was unintended.

That being said, they're looking into alternative means of getting AD that does not involve running queued content. Now, whether or not that AD will be reasonable in amount or not, I don't know. But you have to remember:

At least for the player economy side of things, AD will be in the hands of people willing to do the content that gives it. That's perfectly natural for a game. In the old economy, AD was in the hands of the people willing to do the content that rewarded it-aka, having a leadership army. Which was a warped incentive.

Now, for the non-player economy (eg fixed costs), I agree that prices remain too high for many items.

rollingonit

I would only agree with the premise of this topic, if those suggestions had been implemented at the time of the change or were clearly communicated in the works. Neither of these has occurred.

It's almost as if you are viewing this change with those adjustments already made.

c0li

Crafting armor kits and jewels, campaign boons and tasks, respec character feats and boons I may add, would need to recalculate as well.

theycallmetomu

Oh man, I'd love it if the price of armor kits declined.

tripsofthrymr

theycallmetomu said:

Oh man, I'd love it if the price of armor kits declined.

The people that invested in the tooling to make them would not like that.