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Stretched STO for wide aspect ratios

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,018 Arc User
edited January 2010 in PC Gameplay Bug Reports
Kudos so far on improving the client. I do see a huge difference from early closed beta to now.

However, we are still at a point where the UI and all sorts of game elements (even characters) are stretched for users with very wide aspect ratios. This is always going to plague STO unless we can fix it. I've mentioned this, bugged it, and even complained about it during closed beta, so hopefully we can get this fixed in open beta. It's really not a difficult or time-consuming thing to fix; it's easy to do from a programmer's or graphic artist's perspective.

Here's an example of what I mean. Note how the menus are way too wide. Not only that, but the female character there looks like someone took and stretched here way out of proportion.

open_beta_stretch1.jpg

I run three monitors for a combined gaming resolution of 3840x1024 (three 1280x1024 monitors). I do this with a Matrox TripleHead2Go device, but ATI 5000 series card owners can now do this with ATI's "Eyefinity" software too without special hardware. Therefore my aspect ratio is 15:4.

Normally this is fine in MMOs, especially when developers take this into account and size UI elements on absolute sizes (possibly have them resizeable too). But when developers base things on percentages of the gaming screen size, things go wrong. We can't just arbitrarily decide to have a menu take up 70% of a screen and expect everyone to be running something like 1680x1050 or 1600x1200, etc. 70% of 3840x1024 is huge, distorting menus and even overlapping UI elements if they're scaled independently of each other.

Now, there will be a handful of people running these new ATI cards with three 1680x1050 monitors for a combined gaming screen width of 5040. What you developers think is a reasonable 60% of a 1280x1024 or 1280x960 screen width (768 pixels) becomes 3,024 pixels on a 5040x1050 setup, stretching way too wide.

Please, can we get some love here for those of us who actually invested in our gaming rigs and want to enjoy STO? If we have money to pour into our gaming rigs, we probably have money to pour into Micro-transactions, subscriptions, collector's editions, etc., etc.

Thanks. :)

I will post more images in this thread as I encounter them and take time to grab screenshots.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I support this!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Same problem - I am running at 5040x1050 (via triplehead2go) and it's crashing for me during character creation. I just got a beta key yesterday and got the client downloaded overnight so I haven't gotten any farther into the game. I am going to get past char creation in windowed then I will try again at 5040.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    schaar wrote:
    Same problem - I am running at 5040x1050 (via triplehead2go) and it's crashing for me during character creation. I just got a beta key yesterday and got the client downloaded overnight so I haven't gotten any farther into the game. I am going to get past char creation in windowed then I will try again at 5040.

    The crashing at the character creation screen is a separate problem that many others are experience (it's a known issue to Cryptic).

    But the stretched menus and other things, like characters on the character creation screen, are results of the STO client not taking wide aspect ratios into account.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I'm also running a triple monitor setup and prefer to use all three while gaming rather than just the 'primary' monitor.

    Single-monitor setups are so last-century. It's time for software to start understanding that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Krenath wrote: »
    I'm also running a triple monitor setup and prefer to use all three while gaming rather than just the 'primary' monitor.

    Single-monitor setups are so last-century. It's time for software to start understanding that.

    Indeed. A user can have any gaming monitor configuration these days, including setups like 3 monitors (1x3), 6 monitors (2x3), etc. I've even seen 5 monitors for flight sims before. With smaller monitors becoming so inexpensive, a 3 monitor solution is far more reasonable than a big 30" beast that runs 2560x1600. A 30" monitor is going to cost 3 to 5 times more than 3 smaller monitors, and the total gaming resolution is close to the same.

    My 3840x1024 setup is just under 4 million pixels, while a 30" with 2560x1600 is 5 million pixels. But a 5040x1050 is 7.5 million pixels!

    Heck, even Cryptic's demo in Las Vegas in 2009 was shown across a grid of 12 to 16 monitors!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I'm curious, why do you play the game at 3840x1024 when you can play it at 5040x1050. Are you using smaller monitors?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    schaar wrote:
    Same problem - I am running at 5040x1050 (via triplehead2go) and it's crashing for me during character creation. I just got a beta key yesterday and got the client downloaded overnight so I haven't gotten any farther into the game. I am going to get past char creation in windowed then I will try again at 5040.
    I also use TH2GO at 5040x1050 I logged on last night for the first time and I did not crash. It was a very good experince for me.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I support this change.

    Running a 5040 setup myself.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I'm curious, why do you play the game at 3840x1024 when you can play it at 5040x1050. Are you using smaller monitors?

    I'm using 19" 1280x1024 monitors. For starters, I don't really have the desk space for 1680x1050 monitors, nor would I have the GPU power to push 7 million pixels. My GTX 295 struggles enough for 4 million pixels to keep around 60 FPS at high settings, but not maxed in STO.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Wife is going to hate all of you guys now lol. Now to talk her into it lol. Whats the better way to go, with the ati card and use thier software to do this or buy the box?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Riyx wrote:
    Wife is going to hate all of you guys now lol. Now to talk her into it lol. Whats the better way to go, with the ati card and use thier software to do this or buy the box?

    I researched a lot of options when I started doing this. There's even third-party software out there to do a triple head configuration with two or more video cards, but I wouldn't recommend that (performance hit and all).

    The Matrox device is nice in that you can use any video card with it (either with a dual-link DVI cable or analog D-sub). But it's limited by resolution. Matrox released a firmware update so it supports up to three 1680x1050 monitors now (was limited to 1280x1024 or 1440x900 monitors before). But that's still a limit. With the new ATI 5000 series video cards, the Eyefinity software doesn't necessarily have the same limitations.

    Since you'll need a powerful video card to run this many pixels, I'd opt for the ATI 5970 and use Eyefinity software. At least that's what I'd use now if I was starting from scratch. Cheaper, easier, and less restrictions. The only drawback is that you'll have to run two monitors via the DVI connectors and one via the HDMI. But that works out well if you put the HDMI monitor in the middle so you can still use HDCP for BluRay playback.

    My configuration is from early 2008, so I didn't have the ATI Eyefinity option then.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Riyx wrote:
    Wife is going to hate all of you guys now lol. Now to talk her into it lol. Whats the better way to go, with the ati card and use thier software to do this or buy the box?

    I wouldn't say this is a typical result but I am running the game with maxed graphics with a lone 4870 and it's not having any problems. I don't have problems with it running EVE at maxed graphics either.

    Buy a 5770 from newegg and if it's not enough ponies to pull it off then you can send it back and spring for a bigger card. Keep in mind that if you don't have the cpu or ram the card will be bottle necked anyways.

    I am running a an 2.66ghz i7 with 4 gigs of ram on vista 32 and a bloodrage mobo. Wasn't the cheapest to build a year ago but anything more powerful is a waste of freaking cash.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    RedRaiders wrote:
    I wouldn't say this is a typical result but I am running the game with maxed graphics with a lone 4870 and it's not having any problems. I don't have problems with it running EVE at maxed graphics either.

    Buy a 5770 from newegg and if it's not enough ponies to pull it off then you can send it back and spring for a bigger card. Keep in mind that if you don't have the cpu or ram the card will be bottle necked anyways.

    I am running a an 2.66ghz i7 with 4 gigs of ram on vista 32 and a bloodrage mobo. Wasn't the cheapest to build a year ago but anything more powerful is a waste of freaking cash.

    Well, I know that's not completely true: you're not running max AA on that with three monitors unless you're running at 20 FPS. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Something I would like to add to the request if I could is the ability to relocate where a hail pops up, the minimap, and the interaction buttons.

    I personally am fine with them right now but I get no use out of the mini map because it's 2 feet from the action. The interaction buttons like "Warp to System Space" and "Teleport to Ship" are also way out in left field and get covered up by the tutorial box. Nothing seems to be tethered to the left limit of the screen and everything is tethered to the right limit or centered which means if anything happens on my almost 6ft wide screen it pops up right in the middle of what I am trying to do or it covers up other stuff.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    nice to see ppl using triple-screen setups :)
    I dumped mine because my Parhelia just got too old, but it did handle Lotro quite well ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    RedRaiders wrote:
    Something I would like to add to the request if I could is the ability to relocate where a hail pops up, the minimap, and the interaction buttons.

    Ditto! :)

    We should have all UI elements remember their locations and most of them be resizeable.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Well, I know that's not completely true: you're not running max AA on that with three monitors unless you're running at 20 FPS. ;)

    It's possible because the only things I edited was maxing the view distance and the check box for "Max Graphics".

    I gave the rest a cursory glance and didn't see anything out of place.

    EVE doesn't really have AA either.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Speaking of changing graphic settings did anyone else have problems doing that?

    Anytime I clicked a graphic setting it would immediately go black screen and adjust the setting. Thats nice and all but when you are trying to adjust a slide bar its a bit of a problem. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    RedRaiders wrote:
    It's possible because the only things I edited was maxing the view distance and the check box for "Max Graphics".

    I gave the rest a cursory glance and didn't see anything out of place.

    EVE doesn't really have AA either.

    Ah, then you're not running at true max settings, you're just running at the pre-built config called max or whatever.

    And are we talking STO or EVE? I'm talking about STO, not EVE. EVE requires much less. But EVE probably not max AA either.

    If you choose advanced settings, then look at your anti-aliasing, I bet it's not maxed. And I bet a lot of other settings are not maxed on the max pre-set. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Ah, then you're not running at true max settings, you're just running at the pre-built config called max or whatever.

    And are we talking STO or EVE? I'm talking about STO, not EVE. EVE requires much less.

    If you choose advanced settings, then look at your anti-aliasing, I bet it's not maxed. And I bet a lot of other settings are not maxed on the max pre-set. ;)

    I will have to give it a go once I get off work. As I said I glanced over the advanced settings, which is how I changed the view distance, and everything seemed topped out. I bet I missed AA because it is a pull down with options rather than a slide bar like just about everything else.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I just want to know how is supporting 3 monitors a bug issue?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    RedRaiders wrote:
    I will have to give it a go once I get off work. As I said I glanced over the advanced settings, which is how I changed the view distance, and everything seemed topped out. I bet I missed AA because it is a pull down with options rather than a slide bar like just about everything else.

    In all honesty, a 5800 series card will run STO just fine on the triple monitor config (even at 5040x1050), but at near high settings to still get an average of 50-60 FPS.

    To truly get near-max settings, though not completely maxed, one would need a 5970 (ATI's dual GPU 5000 series card) to get smooth gameplay. I can get smooth gameplay on my GTX 295 (NVIDIA's dual GPU 200 series card), but it's at high-settings (no AA, but high everything else except lighting). I get over 60 FPS idle (I have it v-synced to monitor refresh rate), and the FPS may dip down to 50-something in graphically demanding areas.

    To truly get max settings with max AA and everything at the triple monitor resolutions, one would need at least dual SLI or Crossfire of the top-end cards like the GTX 295, 5970, or 5870, if not triple cards.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I just want to know how is supporting 3 monitors a bug issue?

    It's not "supporting 3 monitors". It's supporting wide gaming resolutions like 5040x1050 or 3840x1024. It's not a "monitor" issue, it's a gaming resolution issue. Those who've never done multiple monitor gaming with devices like Matrox or using ATI's Eyefinity software won't ever understand at first.

    To explain it in terms a regular user would understand...

    With the right hardware or software, Windows sees the three monitors as one big display. Games, no matter what they support, see it as one big display. It's not "multiple monitors" to games. It's just large gaming resolution to games.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    It's not "supporting 3 monitors". It's supporting wide gaming resolutions like 5040x1050 or 3840x1024. It's not a "monitor" issue, it's a gaming resolution issue. Those who've never done multiple monitor gaming with devices like Matrox or using ATI's Eyefinity software won't ever understand at first.

    To explain it in terms a regular user would understand...

    With the right hardware or software, Windows sees the three monitors as one big display. Games, no matter what they support, see it as one big display. It's not "multiple monitors" to games. It's just large gaming resolution to games.

    No its running a wider view of the game. I understand all this. but the only set ups i have seen support this kind of gaming is WoW or simulators for flying.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    In all honesty, a 5800 series card will run STO just fine on the triple monitor config (even at 5040x1050), but at near high settings to still get an average of 50-60 FPS.

    To truly get near-max settings, though not completely maxed, one would need a 5970 (ATI's dual GPU 5000 series card) to get smooth gameplay. I can get smooth gameplay on my GTX 295 (NVIDIA's dual GPU 200 series card), but it's at high-settings (no AA, but high everything else except lighting). I get over 60 FPS idle (I have it v-synced to monitor refresh rate), and the FPS may dip down to 50-something in graphically demanding areas.

    To truly get max settings with max AA and everything at the triple monitor resolutions, one would need at least dual SLI or Crossfire of the top-end cards like the GTX 295, 5970, or 5870, if not triple cards.

    Yeah but if he is asking for permission from the misses than price is probably the real issue. A 5870 costs almost twice that of a 5770.

    Trying to help a brother out!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    No its running a wider view of the game. I understand all this. but the only set ups i have seen support this kind of gaming is WoW or simulators for flying.

    It's actually supported or possible in over 500 games. Most people just don't know it.

    Check out the list at this link. You will probably be surprised at some of the titles it works on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    No its running a wider view of the game. I understand all this. but the only set ups i have seen support this kind of gaming is WoW or simulators for flying.


    Multiple monitor gaming is finally starting to go mainstream with Eyefinity and its time for folks to start complaining when a game of this nature is not designed with this in mind. It isn't like we're asking them to use each monitor seperately (like Supreme Commander), just to allow the graphics to scale properly in very wide resolutions.

    The UI issues will hopefully be moot when/if UI mods start hitting the scene, but the limited FOV (chubby people) is surprising on a new game! They should be able to add a variable aspect ratio control (slider instead of drop down).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    No its running a wider view of the game. I understand all this. but the only set ups i have seen support this kind of gaming is WoW or simulators for flying.

    As others have mentioned, ultra-wide screen gaming resolutions are becoming mainstream now with Eyefinity that is already included for ATI 5000 cards. It will probably be included with NVIDIA cards in the future too so that they can remain competitive.

    As for resolutions, there's are tons out there that are common (around 30). Here's an example. Some of these are defined standards and some are not. For example, 1440x900 is a resolution you see on many laptops, but it's not a standard. Even from those list of resolutions, there are many where STO would look bad due to the aspect ratio (17:9 would be stretched too).

    So it's not about multiple monitors, it's about being flexible for any gaming resolution. After all, LCD manufacturers could introduce a new resolution tomorrow for even larger monitors. They already have 2560x1600.

    And guess what, when you run a game in windowed resolution, you can set it to any resolution you like and the game is supposed to scale and handle its graphics accordingly (within reason of course). After all, the STO client automatically detects a user's aspect ratio. They just don't apply it properly to game elements.

    So if all you want to do is argue about something you don't use or have experience with, please do so in a thread other than those in bugs.
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