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Analyzing ST: First Contact . The Star Trek SOAP OPERA

jake477jake477 Member Posts: 456 Arc User
edited September 19 in Ten Forward
First Contact is known for being one of the best Trek movies if not the best Trek movie ever created. I remember when I was only 7 watching it for the first time.....it scared the living hell out of me. I couldn't sleep for a weeks without thinking some Borg was coming in and assimilating me. When I got older I started to realize something....its 90210 in space. Its essentially about a woman being rejected by a man and is out for revenge against him. The Borg Queen was head over heals for Picard during his stint in the Collective during TNG and wanted him as her equal or should I say possibly lover. Seems like Picard has that effect on women even ones as dark and scary as the Queen of Borg. So think about this, once Picard rejected the Queens advances...she wants to hit him where it hurts, and for Picard that's history and space exploration. What better way to take revenge on a man like Picard, destroy the one thing he loves just as much as the Enterprise. I mean you already robbed him of his invulnerability we saw in early TNG, you broke the man, now you break his soul, which she almost did. That is until she banged Data and tried to turn one his best friends against him, the very man who literally broke Picard out of the Borg Cube. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and considering the great lengths of planning it must have taken, the Queen was very angry.

Funny the Borg always talk about perfection and the need to surpass the confines of humanity, when in fact the Queen is far more human then she realizes and that means just as imperfect as those she assimilates.

In my opinion the very antithesis of an SJW Mary Sue movie, yet the Queen is a very strong and likable female character.
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Comments

  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,648 Arc User
    This analysis is extremely flawed, starting with the claim that
    jake477 wrote: »
    First Contact is known for being one of the best Trek movies if not the best Trek movie ever created.

    Not even, pal. And it only gets worse from there.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,570 Arc User
    > @jonsills said:
    > This analysis is extremely flawed, starting with the claim that(Quote)
    >
    > Not even, pal. And it only gets worse from there.

    Actually ....

    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a871507/star-trek-movies-ranked/

    As you can see FC is #3 behind TWOK and ST09, neither of which would be ranked that high if I wrote the list. I don't care for "analyzing" movies so I won't be getting into that, but FC is well regarded by the general fandom.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,617 Arc User
    Umm...wut?!? No seriously, this literally hurt my brain.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,640 Arc User
    The best Star Trek movie? Maybe the best TNG movie but the best of them all?
    Your pain runs deep.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,845 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Umm...wut?!? No seriously, this literally hurt my brain.

    We may have disagreed on some things in the past coldnapalm... but in this case... I agree.
    WTF did I just read?
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,619 Arc User
    First Contact was more a horror movie
    NMXb2ph.png



  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    edited September 20
    First Contact has been reviewed in detail too many times already.

    Personally, I feel FC contradicts too many events seen on TNG and thus, the Borg Queen and Picard going mad feel totally cheap, forced and artificial. Also... Starfleet doesn't trust Picard to fight the Borg, but a few years earlier he was ordered to lead a Taskforce investigating an attack by the Borg... yeh… sure. Nice try, movie.
    Also... Picard defying his (idiotic and undeserved) standing orders so he could join the battle was very shallow; the battle would have been won without the Enterprise, albeit under more severe losses… when the Enterprise arrives the cube is already heavily damaged, and a rather large portion of the now fairly well-prepared SF-armada is still combat-capable.
    On a sidenote, if SF would have acted in a realistic fashion, they'd have assigned somebody else to command the Enterprise temporarily, so there's that as well.

    Structure and storyboard of the movie are a mess, too. The battle in the beginning is the most spectacular part of the movie and thus has no business being in Act 1 - unless it can be topped later. It would all work so much better if the landing of the vulcans was the beginning of the movie and more like a flashback-kinda thing but relevant to something that's gonna happen in the movie, in a more meaningful manner than it actually ended up being.

    The visual effects are great and hold up very well, but that's about all the positives. Some of the "Horror"-Scenes are good, but are ruined by how the Borg act like zombies more than borg..

    Bottom-line… the movie's fine if you enjoy it without thinking about it. If you start to actually break it down bit by bit, you will see that it's incredibly flawed, shallow, and incompetently written.
    Post edited by redeyedraven on
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,793 Arc User
    First Contact has been reviewed in detail too many times already.

    Personally, I feel FC contradicts too many events seen on TNG and thus, the Borg Queen and Picard going mad feel totally cheap, forced and artificial. Also... Starfleet doesn't trust Picard to fight the Borg, but a few years earlier he was ordered to lead a Taskforce investigating an attack by the Borg... yeh… sure. Nice try, movie.
    Also... Picard defying his (idiotic and undeserved) standing orders so he could join the battle was very shallow; the battle would have been won without the Enterprise, albeit under more severe losses… when the Enterprise arrives the cube is already heavily damaged, and a rather large portion of the now fairly well-prepared SF-armada is still combat-capable.
    On a sidenote, if SF would have acted in a realistic fashion, they'd have assigned somebody else to command the Enterprise temporarily, so there's that as well.

    Structure and storyboard of the movie are a mess, too. The battle in the beginning is the most spectacular part of the movie and thus has no business being in Act 1 - unless it can be topped later. It would all work so much better if the landing of the vulcans was the beginning of the movie and more like a flashback-kinda thing but relevant to something that's gonna happen in the movie, in a more meaningful manner than it actually ended up being.

    The visual effects are great and hold up very well, but that's about all the positives. Some of the "Horror"-Scenes are good, but are ruined by how the Borg act like zombies more than borg..

    Bottom-line… the movie's fine if you enjoy it without thinking about it. If you start to actually break it down bit by bit, you will see that it's incredibly flawed, shallow, and incompetently written.

    I actually completely agree. I don't hate First Contact but I DO think it is painfully overrated.

    Although am kinda mirroring your comments, I found the way they turned Picard into an angry action hero pathetic and completely out of character; to quote Dirk Baecker "Captain Picard, is the exact opposite of a Hollywood action-hero". Well, he was during TNG anyway.

    Picard's orders were laughable too - although, in terms of how the movie was written, were blatantly just an excuse to have Robot the Sidekick say "to hell with our orders" for cheap laughs.

    To be honest, once the 'Battle of Sector 001' was over I found the movie rather boring.

    3U3C0SJ.jpg

  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 738 Arc User
    edited September 20
    First Contact has been reviewed in detail too many times already.

    Personally, I feel FC contradicts too many events seen on TNG and thus, the Borg Queen and Picard going mad feel totally cheap, forced and artificial. Also... Starfleet doesn't trust Picard to fight the Borg, but a few years earlier he was ordered to lead a Taskforce investigating an attack by the Borg... yeh… sure. Nice try, movie.
    Also... Picard defying his (idiotic and undeserved) standing orders so he could join the battle was very shallow; the battle would have been won without the Enterprise, albeit under more severe losses… when the Enterprise arrives the cube is already heavily damaged, and a rather large portion of the now fairly well-prepared SF-armada is still combat-capable.
    On a sidenote, if SF would have acted in a realistic fashion, they'd have assigned somebody else to command the Enterprise temporarily, so there's that as well.

    Structure and storyboard of the movie are a mess, too. The battle in the beginning is the most spectacular part of the movie and thus has no business being in Act 1 - unless it can be topped later. It would all work so much better if the landing of the vulcans was the beginning of the movie and more like a flashback-kinda thing but relevant to something that's gonna happen in the movie, in a more meaningful manner than it actually ended up being.

    The visual effects are great and hold up very well, but that's about all the positives. Some of the "Horror"-Scenes are good, but are ruined by how the Borg act like zombies more than borg..

    Bottom-line… the movie's fine if you enjoy it without thinking about it. If you start to actually break it down bit by bit, you will see that it's incredibly flawed, shallow, and incompetently written.

    The script was definitely way too front-loaded. They could have shifted it back to a more conventional action climax format easily enough by doing things like having the hook be Cochrane and company cautiously do the "first contact" meeting with the aliens unseen until they get close and a cyborg arm reaches into view as if to shake his hand, then suddenly grabs and injects him with nanites before slamming to black and moving on to the TNG era or something along those lines.

    From there they could have split the big fight scene into alternate versions in "bookend" format, where the first one did not go well. Perhaps the ships start getting mysteriously assimilated as their shields were beaten down or something, or the cube starts getting stronger for no apparent reason in the first version as Enterprise breaks off and chases the sphere, and in the end one Enterprise returns to the still going battle against the main cube where the assimilation never happened or stopped and reversed itself or whatever and the cube is finally overpowered and destroyed interleafed with the hook scene again but a Vulcan arm reaching in and the camera swinging and pulling back to reveal the Vulcans and their ship. Maybe they thought something like that would be too "Back To The Future" or whatever.

    As it was the movie seemed like the writers could not decide if they were primarily doing horror, space procedural, or action movie and botched all three.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,947 Arc User
    First Contact has been reviewed in detail too many times already.

    Personally, I feel FC contradicts too many events seen on TNG and thus, the Borg Queen and Picard going mad feel totally cheap, forced and artificial. Also... Starfleet doesn't trust Picard to fight the Borg, but a few years earlier he was ordered to lead a Taskforce investigating an attack by the Borg... yeh… sure. Nice try, movie.
    Also... Picard defying his (idiotic and undeserved) standing orders so he could join the battle was very shallow; the battle would have been won without the Enterprise, albeit under more severe losses… when the Enterprise arrives the cube is already heavily damaged, and a rather large portion of the now fairly well-prepared SF-armada is still combat-capable.
    On a sidenote, if SF would have acted in a realistic fashion, they'd have assigned somebody else to command the Enterprise temporarily, so there's that as well.

    Structure and storyboard of the movie are a mess, too. The battle in the beginning is the most spectacular part of the movie and thus has no business being in Act 1 - unless it can be topped later. It would all work so much better if the landing of the vulcans was the beginning of the movie and more like a flashback-kinda thing but relevant to something that's gonna happen in the movie, in a more meaningful manner than it actually ended up being.

    The visual effects are great and hold up very well, but that's about all the positives. Some of the "Horror"-Scenes are good, but are ruined by how the Borg act like zombies more than borg..

    Bottom-line… the movie's fine if you enjoy it without thinking about it. If you start to actually break it down bit by bit, you will see that it's incredibly flawed, shallow, and incompetently written.

    The script was definitely way too front-loaded. They could have shifted it back to a more conventional action climax format easily enough by doing things like having the hook be Cochrane and company cautiously do the "first contact" meeting with the aliens unseen until they get close and a cyborg arm reaches into view as if to shake his hand, then suddenly grabs and injects him with nanites before slamming to black and moving on to the TNG era or something along those lines.

    From there they could have split the big fight scene into alternate versions in "bookend" format, where the first one did not go well. Perhaps the ships start getting mysteriously assimilated as their shields were beaten down or something, or the cube starts getting stronger for no apparent reason in the first version as Enterprise breaks off and chases the sphere, and in the end one Enterprise returns to the still going battle against the main cube where the assimilation never happened or stopped and reversed itself or whatever and the cube is finally overpowered and destroyed interleafed with the hook scene again but a Vulcan arm reaching in and the camera swinging and pulling back to reveal the Vulcans and their ship. Maybe they thought something like that would be too "Back To The Future" or whatever.

    As it was the movie seemed like the writers could not decide if they were primarily doing horror, space procedural, or action movie and botched all three.

    The only problem with this is that Enterprise has to be protected from the changes that the Borg made in the 21st Century. Otherwise, the Enterprise would not exist. It only took a few seconds for the 24th Century Earth to go from normal to assimilated after the Borg ship went to the 21st Century. So for this to work, the Enterprise could be studying some ancient ruins that protected the Enterprise from temporal changes and encounters a bunch of Borg ships that shouldn't be in the area with communication with Starfleet HQ being impossible.
  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    edited September 21
    The script was definitely way too front-loaded. They could have shifted it back to a more conventional action climax format easily enough by doing things like having the hook be Cochrane and company cautiously do the "first contact" meeting with the aliens unseen until they get close and a cyborg arm reaches into view as if to shake his hand, then suddenly grabs and injects him with nanites before slamming to black and moving on to the TNG era or something along those lines.

    I would have personally not made it a time-travel plot in the first place, because let's face it: Time-travelling Borg that would actually go after Earth in its past would be instant game over for that branch of the timeline, and it makes the battle in the beginning even more stupid (like.. hey borg, you know you could have just gone to the past BEFORE they shoot your cube, and without a Starfleet-ship accidentally following you).

    Nah. Making a good time-travel plot is really not that easy.

    A relatively simple fix would be to structure the movie like this:

    1. We see the Landing of the Vulcans. Perhaps with narration, explaining to the audience what First Contact is.

    //This means the movie would be more accessible to audiences not too familiar with Trek. Also, it would fix an issue with the movie as it is now: FC is the title, but it happens in the very end of the movie, which is plain stupid.

    2. We cut to the Enterprise in present tense. The team goes through the results of the final field-testing of the new ship, the latest reports regarding the situation with the Dominion and sightings of a Borg-vessel that appears to be heading for Earth, also Vulcan Science Academy has requested assistance.

    //this would bring the audience up to speed about what's happening in the ST-universe at that time, and it would capture the tone of TNG a Little better. Enterprise is the flagship, so they've got A LOT TO DO. Also, again, better for general audiences and for those who didn't binge-watch TNG and DS9. FC as we know it doesn't even attempt to explain what is going on other than "Hey look, it's the Borg, you remember the Borg, right!? Oh you didn't know Worf ended up at DS9? You don't know the Defiant? But look here, Borg have a Queen now!".

    3. At Vulcan, my concrete ideas kinda end because from there, the movie would be open for several possible stories that tie back to the original First Contact somehow; Like it's FC-day, the Vulcans have some diplomatic or explorative task, and somewhere halfway through that a transwarp-conduit is detected in relative proximity to Sol, and the battle would be an actual payoff for the aforementioned reports of Borg-activity.

    With better structure and creativity the movie could be decent.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,648 Arc User
    Except the battle in Earth-orbit at the beginning wasn't the payoff of the story. That's why it was kind of dumb to make that the big setpiece, with nothing to top it later in the script.

    Instead, my suggestions would be to have Enterprise too far out to respond in time to get to the battle, but be outfitted with an experimental version of the quantum slipstream drive debuted in VOY. Picard orders its use, hoping to close the gap to Earth; meanwhile, the cube arrives at Earth, disables terrestrial defenses (including ships in orbit), and sends its probe backtime. Enterprise arrives in Earth orbit to find the planet's been Borged, and history changed around them. We have our traditional cut to the conference room:

    DATA: Intriguing, sir. I would theorize that the effects of the quantum slipstream, which take us momentarily out of phase with our universe, protected us from experiencing the change in the timeline. This would be similar to the effects experienced by the away team on the planet of the Guardian of Forever, when it was discovered in the 23rd century. The differences--

    PICARD: Yes, quite interesting, Mr. Data. But is there some way to reverse the changes?

    We Treknobabble a bit, find that the original Borg temporal corridor has left a "wake" of sorts, follow that, and the rest of the plot proceeds from there.

    Still far from the best Trek movie, especially if we insist on keeping the characterization of Zephram Cochrane as a drunk with no interest in space whatsoever beyond its monetary possibilities, but IMO improved in structure at least.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,845 Arc User
    The problem with the Slipstream idea is that First Contact takes place in 2373. I don't think Voyager found Slipstream until 2374.

    As for Cochrane's portrayal... having him start out as the drunk would show how the events changed him into the man people idolize as the father of Warp Drive.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,881 Arc User
    FC is a terrible movie that utterly destroyed the concept of the Borg and showed so many protagonists being out of character. The only reason it is regarded high is because of the ample action scenes - coincidentally, TWOK which is regarded as the best TOS movie, also features the most gracious action scenes. As does DS9, the often mentioned best Trek series. By the time the new installments of Trek came around, action was everywhere and wasn't novel or difficult to pull off any more.​​
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,570 Arc User
    > @angrytarg said:
    > FC is a terrible movie that utterly destroyed the concept of the Borg and showed so many protagonists being out of character. The only reason it is regarded high is because of the ample action scenes - coincidentally, TWOK which is regarded as the best TOS movie, also features the most gracious action scenes. As does DS9, the often mentioned best Trek series. By the time the new installments of Trek came around, action was everywhere and wasn't novel or difficult to pull off any more.​​

    I sincerely and wholeheartedly disagree with either TWOK or DS9 being the best. Always have. I do not rank FC high for action, I rank it high for Picard finally facing his trauma, for being the only TNG film with a good reason for Worf to be there, lots of stuff. This whole "ruining the Borg" thing is not something I would ever have cared about.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,640 Arc User
    I found Nemesis to be a better reason why Worf was on the Enterprise (Riker and Troi’s Wedding). FC was kind of a weak reason. No one else from DS9 was on the Defiant?
    Your pain runs deep.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,845 Arc User
    But Nemesis was just... bad...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,232 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    But Nemesis was just... bad...
    My two favorites of the TNG movies are Nemesis and Insurrection actually.
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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,640 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    But Nemesis was just... bad...

    I agree but it still had a better reason for Worf being around than any other TNG movie after he joined DS9

    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,793 Arc User
    edited September 22
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @angrytarg said:
    > FC is a terrible movie that utterly destroyed the concept of the Borg and showed so many protagonists being out of character. The only reason it is regarded high is because of the ample action scenes - coincidentally, TWOK which is regarded as the best TOS movie, also features the most gracious action scenes. As does DS9, the often mentioned best Trek series. By the time the new installments of Trek came around, action was everywhere and wasn't novel or difficult to pull off any more.​​

    I sincerely and wholeheartedly disagree with either TWOK or DS9 being the best. Always have. I do not rank FC high for action, I rank it high for Picard finally facing his trauma, for being the only TNG film with a good reason for Worf to be there, lots of stuff. This whole "ruining the Borg" thing is not something I would ever have cared about.

    Picard "Faced his Trauma" in '', in a far more character appropriate way in the episode 'Family'
    "You don't know, Robert, you don't know. They took everything I was. They used me to kill and to destroy, and I couldn't stop them! I should have been able to stop them! I tried. I tried so hard. But I wasn't strong enough! I wasn't good enough! I should have been able to stop them. I should, I should."

    It's a heartbreaking, moving, scene and is infinitely more powerful than Picard being some angry, brooding, Rambo-type character who yells at people and smashes things.

    And yeah, so convienient that Worf was there. Not so convienient that it was the one time that the Defiant shipped out with no-one else from DS9's senior staff aboard....
    3U3C0SJ.jpg

  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    edited September 22
    jonsills wrote: »
    We Treknobabble a bit, find that the original Borg temporal corridor has left a "wake" of sorts, follow that, and the rest of the plot proceeds from there.

    There should be no temporal shenanigans at all. Time-travelling Borg would (when written with realistic thoughts about what they'd do) ruin the universe for everybody in that branch of the timeline. There'd be no way to stop them from annihilating something they know they won't defeat quickly enough, and they would just time-travel to points in time where they could get super-powerful technologies and use those in the past. They could never be defeated by anyone if they would start time-travelling.

    reyan01 wrote: »

    Picard "Faced his Trauma" in '', in a far more character appropriate way in the episode 'Family'

    Not only in 'Family'.
    In fact, some sources claimed that the "best scene" of FC is the one where Picard has his tantrum with Lily, but the basic frame of that scene was essentially copy-pasted from 'I, Borg' and decorated with quotes from Moby TRIBBLE; there's that scene where Guinan is getting unusually angry with Picard about not wanting to use Hugh as a tool for genocide. And it's really not much different, except Guinan is the one who starts yelling.

    While at first Picard was considering to take the opportunity, he quickly realized that a Borg-drone is still a life-form. He was actually advocating for the disconnected drone while Guinan initially was was like "U mad bro?".

    And later, in 'Descent', Picard shows absolutely no sign of particular fear or hate against the Borg at all, and Admiral Nechayev even dissed Picard for actually acting like a rolemodel of a Starfleet-captain. Granted, it's not the collective itself he faces in 'Descent', but Lore's drones didn't look different from Borg within the collective - if Picard would still be traumatized at that point, he'd have had a mental breakdown when Lore presented himself surrounded with drones.





  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,648 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    But Nemesis was just... bad...
    My two favorites of the TNG movies are Nemesis and Insurrection actually.
    I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you feel better soon.

    :wink:

    Raven, without "temporal shenanigans", First Contact isn't First Contact, it's a completely different story. Which might not have been a bad idea - I think Trek went to the Borg well far too many times - but that's not what's under discussion here. I mean, it's a little like saying, "I don't think Khan should have been the Big Bad in TWoK." Fair enough, but then the second Trek movie wouldn't have been a sequel to "Space Seed", but a different thing altogether, and unless someone's going to knock out a spec script for free we'll never know what else it might have been.

    (And no, the proposal for "flashbacks" to the Vulcan landing and then the rest of the movie being about commemorating this wouldn't make for a good movie, unless your goal is to limit ticket sales to the sort of person who argues with Memory Alpha about details of Trek history.)
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,845 Arc User
    I think we might be missing one potential variable here in Picard's behavior besudes they wrote him a bit like an action hero. The presence of a Queen directing actions aboard the Enterprise. Also in Descent, he couldn't hear the Borg because they were disconnected.

    We don't really see any Borg who aren't Disconnected after BoBW until First Contact.

    The primary variables we have are:
    • Presence of a Queen
    • Borg that are not disconnected
    • They're taking HIS ship and crew

    Honestly I feel that any Captain would not take their ship and crew being assimilated lightly.
    Combine that with him being able to hear the Borg and the presence of a Queen... it is possible that those were stress factors that could lead even Picard to go Ahab on them for a while, as we saw in First Contact.
    My two favorites of the TNG movies are Nemesis and Insurrection actually.

    Insurrection is one of my favorites. I personally feel that Nemesis was too much of a fanboy one-up rehash of Undiscovered Country. I mean...
    • Previously antagonistic power seeking diplomacy with the Federation?
    • Supership that can fire while cloaked?

    Honestly the whole concept of Shinzon just... feels awkward. Also Picard did have hair back in his academy days.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,640 Arc User
    I’ve always felt Nemesis was a poor rehash of TWOK
    1) Genetically engineered villain
    2) Weapon of mass destruction
    3) Crewmember sacrifices himself to save the ship and instantly drop hints on how they can be brought back
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,845 Arc User
    Never thought about that angle. I always saw the Undiscovered Country comparisons...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,570 Arc User
    edited September 22
    > @reyan01 said:
    > (Quote)
    >
    > Picard "Faced his Trauma" in '', in a far more character appropriate way in the episode 'Family'
    > "You don't know, Robert, you don't know. They took everything I was. They used me to kill and to destroy, and I couldn't stop them! I should have been able to stop them! I tried. I tried so hard. But I wasn't strong enough! I wasn't good enough! I should have been able to stop them. I should, I should."
    >
    > It's a heartbreaking, moving, scene and is infinitely more powerful than Picard being some angry, brooding, Rambo-type character who yells at people and smashes things.
    >
    > And yeah, so convienient that Worf was there. Not so convienient that it was the one time that the Defiant shipped out with no-one else from DS9's senior staff aboard....

    I have been through trauma of no where near the level of what Picard did and Family did not even come close to being resolution for it. He may have fouund a temporary equilibrium but that is all. His breakdown in FC was so much more, and it was done in a realistic way according to psychiatric medicine. Trauma like his does not go away because you got in a fist fight and then got drunk with your brother, if that was all it took I would have far fewer scars.

    As for the Defiant, during the course of DS9 the ship was often dispatched with only 1 or 2 senior staff members aboard so thats a non-issue.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,232 Arc User
    I think Picard's issue in First Contact is more about how he can feel the Queen's voice in his head. He's kinda high on Borg during most of the movie. Then that internal conflict spills out into his total decision making process.
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 10,570 Arc User
    > @markhawkman said:
    > I think Picard's issue in First Contact is more about how he can feel the Queen's voice in his head. He's kinda high on Borg during most of the movie. Then that internal conflict spills out into his total decision making process.

    Picrad suffers from PTSD from his Borg experience, further exacarbated by his torture at Cardassian hands. He could be just fine for years but when he is triggered (say by hearing the Borg in his head) all rationality can go bye bye in a heartbeat. Even what happened in the film isn't resolution, its just that episode resolving.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,845 Arc User
    The scars left behind by the Borg are deep. Its not something that will heal easily. Or entirely at that. They are scars that will be with him for the rest of his life.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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