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10 Anniversary...Please bring back missed items by new/inactive players. And other Suggestions.

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  • pork77pork77 Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    The Kamarag is still available as a mission reward and has been for years same with it's fed counter part. Unless there is another version I don't know about.
    I was talking about the T5 anniversary version. Sorry, should have mentioned that in the first place.

    Edit: azrael605 already answered that... that's what you get from answering before reading the rest of the thread :blush:
    3U3C0SJ.jpg

    ... and of course, I'd love to have a T5/6 Kamarag, like there is a T5/6 Ambassador.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    The whole point of MMORPG is to get stuff.
    Incorrect. The whole point of a MMORPG is to have fun playing a game, be that via narratives, hardcore content, or w/e. MMOs are not just about gear grind, and the idea that they are is why your argument is wrong headed from the start.

    I suppose that is the precise reason why Mirror AFK was such a huge success. Players all tended to it because it is so much fun, and not at all because they got a reward for doing so. Same with stories; they are just fun to be replayed multiple times and don’t at all complete gear-sets if you do.

    You really make a good point for how a game should be designed here though; unfortunatly STO, to vast extends, is not. ;)

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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    reyan01 wrote: »

    And again, judging by the number of players I routinely see with the new shiny from whatever event is running on the day the event started, the skip token package DOES sell.

    Oh yep the buyout tokens definitely do. I bought one the second I got the completion message for my first Peril over Pahvo run. So did two others of my team. Felt like an awsome deal even. :)

    At least at the moment one can save ahead a bit on tokens by running events you like twice or more (so with 2 or more chars) and then skip events you dislike entierly if you only want the special reward.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »

    And again, judging by the number of players I routinely see with the new shiny from whatever event is running on the day the event started, the skip token package DOES sell.

    Oh yep the buyout tokens definitely do. I bought one the second I got the completion message for my first Peril over Pahvo run. So did two others of my team. Felt like an awsome deal even. :)

    At least at the moment one can save ahead a bit on tokens by running events you like twice or more (so with 2 or more chars) and then skip events you dislike entierly if you only want the special reward.
    That's the great thing about the F2P model. You have the players who want to earn rewards through gameplay and the players who want to pay to skip ahead and they can both be happy.

    It's only when some people don't want to do either, instead demanding to be given things for free or jealously objecting to the very existence of things they don't want to do as something nobody should be allowed to do, that a problem comes up. And the problem is that Cryptic listens to them too much, over those of us who actually do want to do spend our time and/or money with the game.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I only bought the ship token package for the ultimate upgrades.
    Post edited by avoozuul on
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    The whole point of MMORPG is to get stuff.
    Incorrect. The whole point of a MMORPG is to have fun playing a game, be that via narratives, hardcore content, or w/e. MMOs are not just about gear grind, and the idea that they are is why your argument is wrong headed from the start.

    Incorrect. Your personal opinion notwithstanding, evidence suggests otherwise.
    Evidence suggests that a large number of players have a 'something for nothing' mindset. If this were not the case we would NOT see scenarios where, as @peterconnorfirst stated, players actively AFK events (Mirror Invasion, the recent Pahvo event) and some TFOs.
    And if not for players trying to avoid "having fun" it would NOT have been viable for The Powers That Be to introduce the event 'Skip token' package. They clearly saw a market for it - players who don't care about "having fun playing the the game" and just want the new shiny. Put this into context; players are willing to PAY to avoid "having fun" repeat playing event content.
    Heck, I've used it myself at least once since I don't unreservedly love every event STO pops out.

    And again, judging by the number of players I routinely see with the new shiny (from whatever event is running) on the day the event started, the skip token package DOES sell.

    I am of the belief that limited time events, especially grind events are highly detrimental to the overall fun aspect of any game, certainly this one. It leads to the whole mindset of "gotta play it now or I won't get another chance." And this game has only gotten far worse in that regard over time. Its fairly ridiculous in a theme park kind of game like this, to encourage people to all jump on the same rides at the same time, with the understanding that the ride won't be quite the same if they don't do it now because of limited time rewards.

    Content removal like the exploration clusters adds an extra layer of difficulty, since a player knows that at any point they may just take away content and if you had been lazily working towards accolades or kitting out each character, you have to speed up that process or you might not be able to do it in the future.

    The dilithium refining and dailies are also tragic in this regard, because it pushes a player towards playing multiple characters as often as possible rather than letting you focus on one. You can't get 24000 dilithium ore on one character per day and make use of it, instead you have to split it over 3 characters. You are discouraged from grinding out 300 marks a day on one character, instead the daily rewards make it more efficient to spread that out. And events are the same way, instead of doing 3 event runs back to back to get 3 tokens on a single character, you have to do 3 different characters (and lets not get started on how punishingly frustrating daily cooldowns are if your daily playtimes aren't very regular.)

    Instead of playing what you want, when you want, its play this now or else-but only up to how much they want you to play it-herding players towards certain things instead of just rewarding them for what they would rather do. It thrusts forth an ADD style of play that isn't conducive towards fun, as it takes you away from a more natural playstyle, of being able to really get into things and just go where it takes you. Does it work to do what the devs/suits want? Sure, but players end up resenting it all the same.

    Final note, though, I have worked to save up the tokens on one character or another to allow for day one buyouts of the event without buying a skip token. Thankfully I can skip events I don't like by doing that, and that is a welcome side effect of account wide rewards (nowadays) and the universal token.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,403 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    The whole point of MMORPG is to get stuff.
    Incorrect. The whole point of a MMORPG is to have fun playing a game, be that via narratives, hardcore content, or w/e. MMOs are not just about gear grind, and the idea that they are is why your argument is wrong headed from the start.

    Incorrect. Your personal opinion notwithstanding, evidence suggests otherwise.
    Evidence suggests that a large number of players have a 'something for nothing' mindset. If this were not the case we would NOT see scenarios where, as @peterconnorfirst stated, players actively AFK events (Mirror Invasion, the recent Pahvo event) and some TFOs.
    And if not for players trying to avoid "having fun" it would NOT have been viable for The Powers That Be to introduce the event 'Skip token' package. They clearly saw a market for it - players who don't care about "having fun playing the the game" and just want the new shiny. Put this into context; players are willing to PAY to avoid "having fun" repeat playing event content.
    Heck, I've used it myself at least once since I don't unreservedly love every event STO pops out.

    And again, judging by the number of players I routinely see with the new shiny (from whatever event is running) on the day the event started, the skip token package DOES sell.

    I am of the belief that limited time events, especially grind events are highly detrimental to the overall fun aspect of any game, certainly this one. It leads to the whole mindset of "gotta play it now or I won't get another chance." And this game has only gotten far worse in that regard over time. Its fairly ridiculous in a theme park kind of game like this, to encourage people to all jump on the same rides at the same time, with the understanding that the ride won't be quite the same if they don't do it now because of limited time rewards.

    Content removal like the exploration clusters adds an extra layer of difficulty, since a player knows that at any point they may just take away content and if you had been lazily working towards accolades or kitting out each character, you have to speed up that process or you might not be able to do it in the future.

    The dilithium refining and dailies are also tragic in this regard, because it pushes a player towards playing multiple characters as often as possible rather than letting you focus on one. You can't get 24000 dilithium ore on one character per day and make use of it, instead you have to split it over 3 characters. You are discouraged from grinding out 300 marks a day on one character, instead the daily rewards make it more efficient to spread that out. And events are the same way, instead of doing 3 event runs back to back to get 3 tokens on a single character, you have to do 3 different characters (and lets not get started on how punishingly frustrating daily cooldowns are if your daily playtimes aren't very regular.)

    Instead of playing what you want, when you want, its play this now or else-but only up to how much they want you to play it-herding players towards certain things instead of just rewarding them for what they would rather do. It thrusts forth an ADD style of play that isn't conducive towards fun, as it takes you away from a more natural playstyle, of being able to really get into things and just go where it takes you. Does it work to do what the devs/suits want? Sure, but players end up resenting it all the same.

    Final note, though, I have worked to save up the tokens on one character or another to allow for day one buyouts of the event without buying a skip token. Thankfully I can skip events I don't like by doing that, and that is a welcome side effect of account wide rewards (nowadays) and the universal token.

    I on the contrary am not against limited-time events. Every MMO has grind. I do not believe it is detrimental and you can still have fun. It does not lead to the mindset that you described, the players decide to have the attitude in regards to FOMO, no one is forcing you to get the item and stuff is being added to the Phoenix box, which is another conversation in itself. According to the EULA, the game can be changed at any time. Working on accolades and kitting out a character is not laziness. This game is set up for alts, I personally choose to focus on my main. Also, you can now do the event on one character, get the reward on that, and have it unlocked on the others. There is no play this now or else, you can still play what you want, you are under no obligation to participate in the event. You can already speed up the process through accelerators, upgrades, upgrade weekends, Omega upgrades with the slivers, and Phoenix box upgrades. Thanks. :)
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I am of the belief that limited time events, especially grind events are highly detrimental to the overall fun aspect of any game, certainly this one. It leads to the whole mindset of "gotta play it now or I won't get another chance." And this game has only gotten far worse in that regard over time. Its fairly ridiculous in a theme park kind of game like this, to encourage people to all jump on the same rides at the same time, with the understanding that the ride won't be quite the same if they don't do it now because of limited time rewards.
    In my opinion limited-time events are pretty much the only fun in a game like this. The limited rewards going away give me a reason to go get them, as opposed to the always-on stuff I can just put off indefinitely, seeing as I don't actually need them for anything and they aren't going anywhere. If there are no events running, I don't necessarily log in at all.

    The rather extreme rarity of reruns is a bit unfortunate for newer players, though. At least for the ships that are too rare in the phoenix box to reasonably get that way.
    The dilithium refining and dailies are also tragic in this regard, because it pushes a player towards playing multiple characters as often as possible rather than letting you focus on one. You can't get 24000 dilithium ore on one character per day and make use of it, instead you have to split it over 3 characters. You are discouraged from grinding out 300 marks a day on one character, instead the daily rewards make it more efficient to spread that out. And events are the same way, instead of doing 3 event runs back to back to get 3 tokens on a single character, you have to do 3 different characters (and lets not get started on how punishingly frustrating daily cooldowns are if your daily playtimes aren't very regular.)
    I do believe the limits for things like that should indeed be account-wide. The "account is the player" or whatever it is they said. The game should not so strongly favor playing alts.

    The event tokens in particular have caused no end of problems for the game in the past. Like the infamous 2014 ship event token hoarding scandal that started from making the rewards account-wide but leaving the cooldowns for earning the tokens per-character, and ended with printing expiration dates on the tokens so you can't keep spares at all anymore. A mistake they've now repeated with the FTFO tokens and I'm just waiting for the hammer to fall on those, too.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Sure it does, and a large number of those people who get the buyout package STILL play the event TFO even after getting the item. So, they obviously find some enjoyment in it, or else they would just never play it at all.

    Like most of what you say on here, this is nothing but your own opinion and conjecture based on nothing but your irrational desire to argue against anyone who's not a cheerleader for Cryptic.

    You have no idea how many people that use the buy out still play the event.. if someone says something like this that's counter to your biased opinion you demand data.. so where is yours?

    Didn't think so.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,697 Community Moderator
    just poking my head in to remind you folks I'm still watching this thread. attack the logic, not the player.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    cheerleader for Cryptic.

    We play ISA cuz it's so TRIBBLE easy and play Mirror Event just for fun. Yea...

    Go Cryptic, go! :D
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    The primary feature about ISA that makes it so popular isn't the easyness (most of the auto-win queues are easier than it, including some that will win themselves 100% by themselves with no player action at all), but rather the speed at which it can be completed.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    rather the speed at which it can be completed.
    Which is due to the fact its TRIBBLE easy, and lacks any sort of real mechanics to it that would actually make it longer.
    Because waiting out a 15 minute timer is oh so very hard? :D
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Like most of what you say on here, this is nothing but your own opinion and conjecture based on nothing but your irrational desire to argue against anyone who's not a cheerleader for Cryptic.

    You have no idea how many people that use the buy out still play the event.. if someone says something like this that's counter to your biased opinion you demand data.. so where is yours?

    Didn't think so.
    A post of nothing but name calling, and outright falsehoods. Its great to see the forums being so mature.

    I didn't call you a single name, I attacked your rationale and your history of one sided arguing. I then asked for you to back up your claim.

    Obviously, you can't.

    I can see from the fact that you are willing to die on this hill that there is no reasoning with you which should not be a surprise to me.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • tribbulatertribbulater Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    rather the speed at which it can be completed.
    Which is due to the fact its TRIBBLE easy, and lacks any sort of real mechanics to it that would actually make it longer.

    That's simply not true. I don't "grind" any content for rewards, I do content to complete specific objectives. From discussion, I know quite a few other players that do the same thing. Those objectives in the past were:

    - I need a bit more ship XP, char XP, Dil ore to complete today's 8k, marks/FM for a project, etc.
    - I need to combat-test a ship fit

    With current systems, more often than not, I am looking to complete some objective for an Endeavour. Damage types, heals, Borg kills, Dread kills, TFO completions, whatever. Since my play time is limited, I look for the most efficient way to complete whatever the objective is. Often that is set by the endeavour or goal - if I need Iconian stuff then obviously ISA is out.

    However, if the goal can be completed by ISA, CCA, SB1 or Azure Nebula, I will almost always run those. They are fast, convenient, offer a lot of action in a short time, give decent amounts of XP/dil/damage/kills/healing opportunities, and I know they will pop quickly because lots of other people run them too.

    For 'objective completion', I never, ever run a TFO that features long, complicated mechanics; that takes a long time to pop, that doesn't offer good opportunity for the XP/damage dealing/healing/kills counters, or that has those time-gated phases which you simply have to wait through while (generally) doing nothing.

    If you think ISA has no mechanics that make it longer, you've clearly never run it with a group that isn't strong enough to insta-pop all the targets. ISA is currently defeated quickly by players being aggressive with strong ship builds and having full knowledge of the mechanics/pattern of the run, not because it is badly designed. Players build for it, play it hard, run it because it is worthwhile, and complete it quickly because they have other things to do.

    Not saying it is the best possible design, but it is good for what it is: a nice fast change of pace. Putting artificial time gates, timed pauses between phases, and complex mechanics doesn't make a TFO 'better'. It only makes it longer, less fun, and more likely to be AFK'd.

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Because waiting out a 15 minute timer is oh so very hard?
    The timer isn't the point.
    No, that's the thing. The timer IS the point in those missions. Victory is scheduled in 15 minutes, everything else is optional.
    The point is that the game actively encourages you to do something besides just sit there and spam space bar. It doesn't matter if you HAVE to do it or not. When playing video games, people will generally try to overcome any sort of challenge you put before them, regardless of if its necessary to complete the mission or not.
    On the previous page of this thread you argued that "90%" of players won't ever try anything challenging. Do try to make up your mind. ;)
    TFOs like Pahvo Dissension, Defense of Starbase One, and Battle at the Binary Stars, have gotten the fairly positive reception that they have because they offer objectives that you do have to participate in to achieve, but don't fall back on the old "its only hard because we jammed enemy HP and resistances to 2 billion" like optionals in older TFOs like the "defeat the three dreadnoughts in X time" optional in Borg Disconnected.
    No, they don't have objectives you have to participate in. They have objectives that you may choose to participate in if you happen to feel like it (or are just bored and can't be bothered to go get yet another cup of coffee while waiting), but you don't have to do anything at all because they win themselves automatically. They are literally the easiest of easy that is at all possible to make.

    Nor does having optional distractions to pass the time with while the actual mission is decided by a timer "actively encourage" players to do anything, it's the exact opposite. It's telling players to "do whatever, or don't, it's all the same."
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,265 Arc User
    edited August 2019
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Not saying it is the best possible design, but it is good for what it is: a nice fast change of pace. Putting artificial time gates, timed pauses between phases, and complex mechanics doesn't make a TFO 'better'. It only makes it longer, less fun, and more likely to be AFK'd.

    Also yea. :)

    I think the obvious choice would have been to simply offer the so far deliberately left out elite versions of the 6 old Borg maps. Adjust the critters to HSE/HGE levels, maintain the core principles of the maps and call it a day.

    Cryptic still could do that but of course don’t as it would offer an even greater incentive to focus on those maps as they now would not only be fun to play but also would suddenly start to hand out something players like me would realize as a reward. Trouble is they want us to play all maps, no matter how bad they are.

    For PvE ground maps this questionable, promotional strategy towards newer content worked out to some degree and most elite maps we have managed to get consumed regularly while the 3 borg ground maps dust away. Cryptic did a rather solid job on most ground maps we have. Their design is diversified, any time gates are integrated in a motivating way via to the terrain to cover and/or tasks to fulfill. The challenges vary from reasonable to actually elite which is ok as it simply works for most teams with 2-3 good players in it. Rewards feel alright for everybody here.

    For space PvE Crpytic failed miserably as so many maps have such a bad design that those 2-3 good players who could handle stuff rather skip the prospect of any elite rewards, and just stick to Advanced Difficulty on popular maps to have a good time in space in STO. I don’t know how often you have got a call in dedicated PvE channels for “elite space tours” the past 5 years, I for my part got none. Elite teams may pick one of them selectively if anybody happens to need anything but the second peeps got what they came for they are back to Borg smashing. GG Cryptic!
    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
    Y'all have already been asked to stop attacking one another. Last warning.
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  • tribbulatertribbulater Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    So anyways, back to the 10th Anniversary suggestions:

    Someone suggested a mega-event which allows people to unlock anything from the past. Good basic idea, bad timing in that if someone misses that one event they get nothing (which just adds to the 'exclusive timed event' problem).

    How about if each of the 'ship' events in 10th Anni year (Anniversary, Summer, Winter) had an option for a 'choice pack' box that unlocks one of the past event ships? You can run the event on multiple chars so each character could unlock a different ship for the account.

    This would potentially lead to more logins, more characters playing each event, possibly even to char slot sales and new characters being created. Also, if Cryptic let it be known that this would happen on every '5th year' anniversary, people would still be motivated to play 'each event as it happens', but also know they had a catch-up mechanic in the future if they should miss something. That would in turn lead to players thinking longer-term in their STO plans (which might encourage life sub sales, since the frequent question there is "will I still be playing/game still be here in 2+years?").

    So, win-win, and should be doable in terms of Cryptics programming ability since it is in effect just a box of event reward boxes. It could even have reduced Dil/Mark payout since it is an 'extra' event task.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    wow!, I don't remember this esd, when it was removed?
This discussion has been closed.