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FTC on going discussion on loot boxes

speedforce73#7331 speedforce73 Member Posts: 11 Arc User


Hopefully these discussions will force all gaming companies from selling loot boxes.

Comments

  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 6,227 Arc User
    I have the same opinion of anything YongYea says that I do about the dirt on the bottom of my shoe.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,574 Arc User
    Why do people keep insisting on posting YouTube videos as if they proved anything? I thought by now you'd have caught on that the plausibility level here is about the same as "I saw it on the internet, so it must be true!"

    As I've told my roommate, I can find you several series on YouTube about twentysomethings being harassed by the Slenderman, but that doesn't make him real.
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  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    edited August 11
    I do not agree with forcing anyone from not selling lockboxes. I still do not understand the uproar about them. I understand the Star Wars Battlefront 2 case but none of the others. To those who were mad that the Discovery Constitution was in the Infinity R & D pack, it was following the precedent (that can always change) set by the TOS Constitution being in the Infinity R & D pack as well. The items in the lockboxes are not needed to play the game, most is cosmetics. I also do not agree with getting rid of a source of income for Cryptic and other gaming companies, what with how expensive it is to live in California, the cost of the servers (even with the Akamai security server being on the fritz these days), etc. May this never happen. Thanks. :)
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • speedforce73#7331 speedforce73 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Here you go then, the FTC work shop recordings

    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/audio-video/video/inside-game-unlocking-consumer-issues-surrounding-loot-boxes-session-1

    At the bottom of the webpage is the second workshop around the psychological impact of loot boxes
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    edited August 11
    Here you go then, the FTC work shop recordings

    https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/audio-video/video/inside-game-unlocking-consumer-issues-surrounding-loot-boxes-session-1

    At the bottom of the webpage is the second workshop around the psychological impact of loot boxes

    So various things can cause a psychological impact on the person including war. Every person is different and affected differently. Also, humans have an ability called self-control that can be exercised even if one has an addiction-prone personality. I just don't get it. Is Cryptic going to soon have to put a 1-800-GAMBLER number or something like that in the game if you have a gambling problem? It is getting ridiculous.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 4,395 Arc User
    It isn't the gaming industry's responsibility to worry about a person's mental health. It's the responsibility of the person. Too many times the blame game goes on with people blaming everyone except themselves for the things they do.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    It isn't the gaming industry's responsibility to worry about a person's mental health. It's the responsibility of the person. Too many times the blame game goes on with people blaming everyone except themselves for the things they do.

    I agree.
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    It isn't the gaming industry's responsibility to worry about a person's mental health. It's the responsibility of the person. Too many times the blame game goes on with people blaming everyone except themselves for the things they do.

    It is the gaming industry's responsibility to make a profit for as long as possible. To make the most amount of profit from their customer, then worrying about their customer's mental health might be part of the gaming industry's responsibility. Sadly, too many industries are concerned with just short-term profits and not long-term profits.
  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,546 Arc User
    sto 's system is fine . it can even be a example for other companies.
  • speedforce73#7331 speedforce73 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    garaks31 wrote: »
    sto 's system is fine . it can even be a example for other companies.

    How are the gamble boxes fine and an example ? You think spending $1000s of dollars to get one ship is a good system?

  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,546 Arc User
    edited August 12
    buy keys low from exc. and sell them high. when it's event is over. 0 mula . a system that gives this and similar abilitis is a good system.

    gambling = only price or nothing ( only way to get that price )
    not gambling = 50+ different +lobi items ( at least 5 different ways to reach the price )
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,090 Arc User
    garaks31 wrote: »
    sto 's system is fine . it can even be a example for other companies.
    How are the gamble boxes fine and an example ? You think spending $1000s of dollars to get one ship is a good system?
    Because you can trade in game currency to get the stuff. NONE of the stuff in STO's lock boxes actually requires you to spend money. It requires SOMEONE to spend money, but not YOU.
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,210 Arc User
    How are the gamble boxes fine and an example ? You think spending $1000s of dollars to get one ship is a good system?

    Spending thousands of dollars to try and get a ship is an prime example of the stupidity of the individual, not the lootbox. If you are doing that, it is 100% entirely on you and you are a victim of your own making.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,210 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    It is the gaming industry's responsibility to make a profit for as long as possible. To make the most amount of profit from their customer, then worrying about their customer's mental health might be part of the gaming industry's responsibility.

    How about the individual take responsibility for their own well being instead of companies?

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,921 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    It is the gaming industry's responsibility to make a profit for as long as possible. To make the most amount of profit from their customer, then worrying about their customer's mental health might be part of the gaming industry's responsibility.

    How about the individual take responsibility for their own well being instead of companies?

    Some individuals can't take responsibility for their own well being. However having companies taking care of an individual's well being can result in a Science Fiction Nightmare.

  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,210 Arc User
    I seriously doubt anyone who is unable to care for themselves is sitting in front of the computer emptying their wallet on lootboxes.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 37,440 Arc User
    Its only a matter of time before more serious legislation actually happens, but it could be another year or 2 before legal things are in place to prevent or limit the sale of lootboxes. For now we have to rely on the developers who look at lootboxes and realize what they are and decide to not greedily exploit their customers.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,210 Arc User
    Businesses wanting to make money is not greedy. The only people being "exploited" are those who are victims of their own stupidity.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 628 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Businesses wanting to make money is not greedy. The only people being "exploited" are those who are victims of their own stupidity.

    The same can be said of poker players, or anyone who gambles in casino's, yet those games are regulated to some degree or another already. I can see how they might want to regulate the boxes the same way, though as usual for anything that involves the internet and gaming it is a ridiculous circus that will probably come up with regulations that have no actual bearing on the problem.

    That said, I never have anything to do with the boxes that require keys because my budget does not stretch to impulse buying vaporitems so I really could not care less about them. I do not buy keys and the only time I buy non-keyed gamble boxes is when they do it as an add on for something I can use (so far just the doff boxes, which of course had nothing but the doffs I wanted in the first place and some useless junk in them).
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,210 Arc User
    Most every business that exists is under some form of regulation. This is not unique to casinos.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,704 Arc User
    edited August 15
    valoreah wrote: »
    How are the gamble boxes fine and an example ? You think spending $1000s of dollars to get one ship is a good system?

    Spending thousands of dollars to try and get a ship is an prime example of the stupidity of the individual, not the lootbox. If you are doing that, it is 100% entirely on you and you are a victim of your own making.

    You hit the nail on the head in the first sentence though, @valoreah - "spending thousands of dollars to try and get a ship".
    THAT is the key here. Buying the boxes for no reason other than wanting to win the 'grand prize’.

    I've won a few R&D Prize ships and count myself extremely lucky. But I did NOT open those boxes either intending or expecting to win a ship - I opened them because I wanted Lobi Crystals (to buy the Tholian Iktomi) which you are 100% GUARANTEED to get from the box. The fact that a ship prize box dropped was a massive bonus, no doubt, but again - I didn't buy the boxes expecting to win a ship. And that's just it - too many people open the boxes expecting to win the grand prize - and then get angry when they don't.
    It's been said a million times before - but anyone who wants the prize ship THAT badly should just sell the promo boxes on the exchange to raise the EC to simply buy that ship.

    And some arguments pertaining to the boxes are tiresome. They are not comprable to casinos; STO's boxes NEVER leave you empty handed. You may not win what you wanted, but you are not left empty handed.
    Its also fair to say that even in the case of the prize ships, they are not so super-awesome that they're game breaking; they're often more desirable and sometimes get little extras to sweeten the deal, but for the most part I'd say that most people want them for bragging rights. I mean, I haver a friend in-game (but who doesn't visit the forum) who HATES the DSC Constitution (considers it "an insult to the original" ), but nonetheless still became jealous when I won mine.

    Post edited by reyan01 on
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,210 Arc User
    ^ Exactly. This is no different than someone blaming the state lottery commission because they spent $100 on tickets and didn't win the million dollar jackpot.

    As I've said before, it will not matter if any new law requires gaming companies to post odds. No matter what any law requires or the gaming companies do, stupid people are going to continue to be stupid and spend money they should not have and look to blame someone else for their poor judgment and decision making.



    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,090 Arc User
    Also, players have calculated the odds via data aggregation. We already KNOW. Officially publishing them changes little.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,500 Arc User
    Also, players have calculated the odds via data aggregation. We already KNOW. Officially publishing them changes little.

    No, people on the forums or reddit that follow this kind of threads know. But you can't assume that's everyone. Or even a significant amount of people compared to the people opening lockboxes.
    Having it out in the open means that you don't know about it by accident, you know it because it is told you before you open the lockbox.
    It seems a reasonable limitation. It doesn't remove the business model of the game, it just makes it more transparent.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,090 Arc User
    Also, players have calculated the odds via data aggregation. We already KNOW. Officially publishing them changes little.
    No, people on the forums or reddit that follow this kind of threads know. But you can't assume that's everyone. Or even a significant amount of people compared to the people opening lockboxes.
    Having it out in the open means that you don't know about it by accident, you know it because it is told you before you open the lockbox.
    It seems a reasonable limitation. It doesn't remove the business model of the game, it just makes it more transparent.
    It gets discussed in-game too. If you ask around in game someone will tell you.

    But officially published odds would make that information easier to get.
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,210 Arc User
    No, people on the forums or reddit that follow this kind of threads know. But you can't assume that's everyone. Or even a significant amount of people compared to the people opening lockboxes.
    Having it out in the open means that you don't know about it by accident, you know it because it is told you before you open the lockbox.
    It seems a reasonable limitation. It doesn't remove the business model of the game, it just makes it more transparent.

    I would agree the information is not out in the open, however it isn't exactly difficult to find out either. One just needs to put in the time to do it.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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