Did they send the Constitution through a Debigulator between 2257 and 2265?
Despite the "its prime" hype from CBS it is obviously a different ship made with completely different, less efficient technology in a timeline close to but not quite that of the shows produced before ENT, one that requires a ship with the same number of crew and roughly equivalent systems to be over 50% larger just to do the same job.
Or at least a lesser version of the same job anyway. If the weapons and targeting systems were up to TOS standards that "fighter" trick would never have worked for instance.
I remember watching that season finale, watching those swarms of fighters and shuttles. I almost threw my glass across the room, "Where the hell do these ships keep all those craft???"
I'm told that the DSC Constitution is 150% the size of the TOS Constitution as far as the game's ship models go.
So it's almost the size of the KT then.. isn't?
Ingame, sort of. The ingame Konni is about Galaxy sized, so 600ish metres and the DSC Conni ingame is about 450ish.
In terms of the films/TV, the DSC/TOS Conni (450ish m) is about 100m longer than the KT Conni (360ish m).
Ahh, i see, thanks… i'm trying to put the ship in perspective with my other ships… i have the T6 version and the KT, i always found that the KT is too big, and the Temporal too small, so that size is kind of nice, actually… a middle ground..
If they'd taken the ENT MSD as the scale for the TOS Conni instead of some non-canon figures from a 50 year old book in the first place and taken the actual model scale for the Konni instead of some calculation errors from the Blu-ray special features then, (with a little fudging to make the Konni slightly bigger) you'd be able to mix and match all 8 versions of the Conni together.
What "50 year old book" are you talking about? The TOS Enterprise length was officially set by Matt Jefferies which is about as canon as you can get. The old tech manual and deck plans drawn by Franz Joseph and other possibilities for the book you are referring to just used the official canon length from Jefferies for the most part.
Why would the ship need to be bigger anyway? Bigger is not always better. The TOS version was about the same length as an Iowa-class battleship from WWII or a Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier from the UK today, and only had about 440 people rattling around in it.
The temporal cold war seems to have done rather extensive damage to the tech level in DSC since it apparently has not advanced as far from the ENT era as the TOS/Cage technology did despite the "cooler" looks. In fact, if you take a very close look at the DSC Enterprise it has a lot of details directly from the ENT era that the TOS Federation obviously left behind sometime before 2245 when their version of the NCC-1701 was built but are still present in the DSC Federation.
Even the lcars on the Discovery GAVE the size of the Enterprise......it is of the TOS size...and the display had STRAIGHT struts.
A sorta middle finger to TOS fans?
Discovery seems to really champion Enterprise, and try to chuck away TOS for some reason.
I'm told that the DSC Constitution is 150% the size of the TOS Constitution as far as the game's ship models go.
So it's almost the size of the KT then.. isn't?
Ingame, sort of. The ingame Konni is about Galaxy sized, so 600ish metres and the DSC Conni ingame is about 450ish.
In terms of the films/TV, the DSC/TOS Conni (450ish m) is about 100m longer than the KT Conni (360ish m).
Ahh, i see, thanks… i'm trying to put the ship in perspective with my other ships… i have the T6 version and the KT, i always found that the KT is too big, and the Temporal too small, so that size is kind of nice, actually… a middle ground..
If they'd taken the ENT MSD as the scale for the TOS Conni instead of some non-canon figures from a 50 year old book in the first place and taken the actual model scale for the Konni instead of some calculation errors from the Blu-ray special features then, (with a little fudging to make the Konni slightly bigger) you'd be able to mix and match all 8 versions of the Conni together.
What "50 year old book" are you talking about? The TOS Enterprise length was officially set by Matt Jefferies which is about as canon as you can get. The old tech manual and deck plans drawn by Franz Joseph and other possibilities for the book you are referring to just used the official canon length from Jefferies for the most part.
Why would the ship need to be bigger anyway? Bigger is not always better. The TOS version was about the same length as an Iowa-class battleship from WWII or a Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier from the UK today, and only had about 440 people rattling around in it.
The temporal cold war seems to have done rather extensive damage to the tech level in DSC since it apparently has not advanced as far from the ENT era as the TOS/Cage technology did despite the "cooler" looks. In fact, if you take a very close look at the DSC Enterprise it has a lot of details directly from the ENT era that the TOS Federation obviously left behind sometime before 2245 when their version of the NCC-1701 was built but are still present in the DSC Federation.
Even the lcars on the Discovery GAVE the size of the Enterprise......it is of the TOS size...and the display had STRAIGHT struts.
A sorta middle finger to TOS fans?
Discovery seems to really champion Enterprise, and try to chuck away TOS for some reason.
I'm not a fan of the TOS designs, they have not aged well. The Discovery Connie is superior in every way.
Please don't aim the phaser at me
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I'm told that the DSC Constitution is 150% the size of the TOS Constitution as far as the game's ship models go.
So it's almost the size of the KT then.. isn't?
Ingame, sort of. The ingame Konni is about Galaxy sized, so 600ish metres and the DSC Conni ingame is about 450ish.
In terms of the films/TV, the DSC/TOS Conni (450ish m) is about 100m longer than the KT Conni (360ish m).
Ahh, i see, thanks… i'm trying to put the ship in perspective with my other ships… i have the T6 version and the KT, i always found that the KT is too big, and the Temporal too small, so that size is kind of nice, actually… a middle ground..
If they'd taken the ENT MSD as the scale for the TOS Conni instead of some non-canon figures from a 50 year old book in the first place and taken the actual model scale for the Konni instead of some calculation errors from the Blu-ray special features then, (with a little fudging to make the Konni slightly bigger) you'd be able to mix and match all 8 versions of the Conni together.
What "50 year old book" are you talking about? The TOS Enterprise length was officially set by Matt Jefferies which is about as canon as you can get. The old tech manual and deck plans drawn by Franz Joseph and other possibilities for the book you are referring to just used the official canon length from Jefferies for the most part.
Why would the ship need to be bigger anyway? Bigger is not always better. The TOS version was about the same length as an Iowa-class battleship from WWII or a Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier from the UK today, and only had about 440 people rattling around in it.
The temporal cold war seems to have done rather extensive damage to the tech level in DSC since it apparently has not advanced as far from the ENT era as the TOS/Cage technology did despite the "cooler" looks. In fact, if you take a very close look at the DSC Enterprise it has a lot of details directly from the ENT era that the TOS Federation obviously left behind sometime before 2245 when their version of the NCC-1701 was built but are still present in the DSC Federation.
Even the lcars on the Discovery GAVE the size of the Enterprise......it is of the TOS size...and the display had STRAIGHT struts.
A sorta middle finger to TOS fans?
Discovery seems to really champion Enterprise, and try to chuck away TOS for some reason.
I'm not a fan of the TOS designs, they have not aged well. The Discovery Connie is superior in every way.
Please don't aim the phaser at me
I am the opposite.
To me, either makes a prequel that looks right, or make no prequel.
And, to me, TOS is fine and has aged well.
I'm going to admit it, CBS did drop the ball on that.
That said, the Discovery Connie is a beautiful looking ship
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
What "50 year old book" are you talking about? The TOS Enterprise length was officially set by Matt Jefferies which is about as canon as you can get. The old tech manual and deck plans drawn by Franz Joseph and other possibilities for the book you are referring to just used the official canon length from Jefferies for the most part.
Nope. If it's onscreen it's canon. Not what some guy says and some other guys then reprint in 50 year old books. Don't like it? Take it up with CBS, they own the IP, they say it dosn't count unless it's onscreen.
Why would the ship need to be bigger anyway? Bigger is not always better. The TOS version was about the same length as an Iowa-class battleship from WWII or a Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier from the UK today, and only had about 440 people rattling around in it.
Nobody said it had to be 'bigger to be better'. The reason for the MSD sizing the ship to 400 odd metres in ENT was because it needed to fit the interior sets in realistically and the non-canon tiny size was far too small to do that, so an official canonical MSD set the size.
The temporal cold war seems to have done rather extensive damage to the tech level in DSC since it apparently has not advanced as far from the ENT era as the TOS/Cage technology did despite the "cooler" looks. In fact, if you take a very close look at the DSC Enterprise it has a lot of details directly from the ENT era that the TOS Federation obviously left behind sometime before 2245 when their version of the NCC-1701 was built but are still present in the DSC Federation.
All of that is bollocks. DSC is a retcon to the Cage to make the Conni fit in the iniage established by every film or show since TMP. It'll probably still be refitted into the Where No Man... version and into the TOS version at some point in the future, all that was retconned was the Cage build.
The visuals of DSC are supposed to look like technology from ENT and the USS Kelvin slowly becoming the technology from TWoK up to NEM. It's ignoring The Cage because it (like TOS) deviates from that lineage. The Conni was never a ship of the TS era, it was always old, the angular DSC ships are the modern ships of the TOS era. The Conni will still get it's TOS refit in a attempt to bring the aging design up to scratch with the modern ships like the Crossfield, but it's obviously going to be unsuccessful prompting the massive refit in the 70s.
The Temporal Cold War is a closed loop, it has no effect on DSC because DSC is TOS' past. The DSC Conni is a straight retcon not some time travel malaky.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Did they send the Constitution through a Debigulator between 2257 and 2265?
Kurtzman, as does, JJ, think 'bigger is better' and no sense of subtlety, as the designer of the Beyond Enterprise A said on Trek Yards.
Funny how Kurtzman said he'll be 'free of cannon' in season 3.....he was barely 'imprisoned' by cannon to begin with. <_<;;
It dosn't matter what they say, it only matters what is shown onscreen and that is that the TOS Enterprise is bigger than it was originally designed as soon as the interiors were built. Conversely the KT Conni is much smaller than Abrams thinks it is due to the interiors shown.
But you like the controversy so you'll listen to writers spewing headcanon over what's onscreen for... reasons.
And writers aren't allowed cannons because they're not battleships.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
You can never have enough dakka, I prefer much more industrial colours myself
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Each to their own really on that, I'm into my warships in sci-fi.
The Discovery Connie makes me think Battleship
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Andromeda Ascendant makes me think "advanced" and "battleship"--especially when the battle blades deploy. Disco Connie makes me think "aw, old Star Trek" which is neither a good nor a bad thing intrinsically. I am quite fond of Miranda and Excelsior. More modern ships designs like Vengeance, Scimitar, Nero's... doohickey... etc. make me think "aw, a six-year-old designed this on Take Your Kid to Work Day". Kelvin Connie makes me think "JJ Abrams can go eat a bag of mekleths"...
What "50 year old book" are you talking about? The TOS Enterprise length was officially set by Matt Jefferies which is about as canon as you can get. The old tech manual and deck plans drawn by Franz Joseph and other possibilities for the book you are referring to just used the official canon length from Jefferies for the most part.
Nope. If it's onscreen it's canon. Not what some guy says and some other guys then reprint in 50 year old books. Don't like it? Take it up with CBS, they own the IP, they say it dosn't count unless it's onscreen.
Except that the official big shooting model has "1:48" marked on it which agrees with all the paperwork for the show that put it at about 288 meters. It was designed to be that size and aside from the occasional error was shown to be that size in every episode. They simply never said the numbers in dialog since there was no valid reason to do so in any of the scripts they filmed and Roddenberry was a stickler for keeping the dialog clean and free of extraneous technobabble.
Why would the ship need to be bigger anyway? Bigger is not always better. The TOS version was about the same length as an Iowa-class battleship from WWII or a Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier from the UK today, and only had about 440 people rattling around in it.
Nobody said it had to be 'bigger to be better'. The reason for the MSD sizing the ship to 400 odd metres in ENT was because it needed to fit the interior sets in realistically and the non-canon tiny size was far too small to do that, so an official canonical MSD set the size.
There is no need to inflate the ship to 400 meters to fit everything seen in TOS in easily (with only one exception). That even includes the fact that the "engineering room" set actually represented THREE different engineering areas: the impulse deck (at the back of the saucer), and the port and starboard warp engineering decks (in the secondary hull). In fact, the only thing that is ever shown in TOS that would not fit the 289 meter ship is the fact that they made a slight scaling error in the shuttlebay miniature set that, if you unbend everything from the forced perspective and compare it to the shuttlecraft, puts the Enterprise at approximately 330 meters, not the ridiculous 400+.
That means either the ENT MSD you talk about is wrong or the Defiant that appeared in ENT was not the same one that was lost in the TOS episode "The Tholian Web". The ENT producers probably inflated the size because they were fixated on the idea that ships would have to get bigger over time, instead of thinking about how new tech tends to be smaller and more efficient than older stuff. That semi-trailer sized unit with the dilithium crystals in it in ENT that Tripp was always dinking with was about the size of an office desk in TOS for instance. With that kind of miniaturization you can pack a lot into a WWII battleship-sized hull. They even show that effect between The Cage and TOS, the dorsal sensor dome was an entire deck high in Cage, but much, much shorter and flatter in TOS.
The temporal cold war seems to have done rather extensive damage to the tech level in DSC since it apparently has not advanced as far from the ENT era as the TOS/Cage technology did despite the "cooler" looks. In fact, if you take a very close look at the DSC Enterprise it has a lot of details directly from the ENT era that the TOS Federation obviously left behind sometime before 2245 when their version of the NCC-1701 was built but are still present in the DSC Federation.
All of that is bollocks. DSC is a retcon to the Cage to make the Conni fit in the iniage established by every film or show since TMP. It'll probably still be refitted into the Where No Man... version and into the TOS version at some point in the future, all that was retconned was the Cage build.
Lol, that would be quite a refit, one that would make the TOS to movie version refit look trivial. The look is totally different, and nothing short of a timeline reset could possibly make the two match up without a lot of problems. For one thing DSC uses a completely different design philosophy from TOS, and that extends to the basic shapes that make up the ship. What are they supposed to do, wave a magic wand and make the off-kilter art-deco shapes suddenly flow into the googie-like shapes of TOS?
And looks are not the only thing different, the technology is a primitive whackadoodle mix of ENT taken only slightly forward and a kind of generic pseudo Star Wars. They treat warp drive almost as if it was a jump drive instead of the realspace FTL drive shown in all the Treks up to (and including) ENT. In fact, in TOS it was standard doctrine to fight in warp (and they even did a little of that in ENT after Reed figured out how to balance the phasing to allow them to shoot out of both the shields and the warp bubble at the same time), but in DSC they apparently have some trouble even talking to other ships in warp much less shooting at them.
And speaking of shooting, the average combat distance in TOS was around 40,000km and they rarely missed, whereas I have some doubts that the DSC ships could even see each other at that range, and they certainly could not hit each other even if they could see them according to the pitiful showing in regard to accuracy in every battle scene in the show. Worse yet for DSC, TOS combat has been done at ranges of at least up to 90,000km if you listen to the dialog during those battles.
Then again, the DSC sensors are so rotten that they get out-performed by a toy telescope aimed out a window in the first episode, so that cannot help much in trying to hit anything. Apparently they cannot see where they are going in warp very well either since the Discovery crew had no idea they were heading into an asteroid field in S2E1, whereas in TOS they chased Mudd through an asteroid field at warp, tracking all the asteroids without undue strain before the loon burned out his engines and lost control while trying to shake off Enterprise.
The visuals of DSC are supposed to look like technology from ENT and the USS Kelvin slowly becoming the technology from TWoK up to NEM. It's ignoring The Cage because it (like TOS) deviates from that lineage. The Conni was never a ship of the TS era, it was always old, the angular DSC ships are the modern ships of the TOS era. The Conni will still get it's TOS refit in a attempt to bring the aging design up to scratch with the modern ships like the Crossfield, but it's obviously going to be unsuccessful prompting the massive refit in the 70s.
The Temporal Cold War is a closed loop, it has no effect on DSC because DSC is TOS' past. The DSC Conni is a straight retcon not some time travel malaky.
Actually they are ignoring TOS because, out of all of Trek, Les Moonves hated TOS the most, and he deliberately hired people who likewise hate (or at least show contempt for) TOS to produce DSC. For example, in a video interview the set designer for DSC talked about how much she hated the TOS esthetics (what she called the "carboard Enterprise") and that in her opinion the only design that was worth anything was for "The Undiscovered Country" and so she based the DSC interiors on that. CBS seems to be making at least a little headway in clearing out that toxic situation, but they have a considerable way to go.
If not the Temporal Cold War then some other time intervention (or the lack of a necessary one) or some other reality-warping event would have had to cause the changes. Star Trek under CBS is rather like The Terminator series in reverse, with technology degrading (in function anyway) instead of improving each loop. And anyway, if the TCW was an isolated "closed loop" as you say then ENT would not have happened at all as far as the outside world was concerned since it was involved in that war and would be just as sealed away as the rest.
I'm going to admit it, CBS did drop the ball on that.
That said, the Discovery Connie is a beautiful looking ship
It's a ok design....but not a connie. Also.....I don't like the grey....looks like it's made from steel or something. >_>
According to what Burnham says in S2E1the hulls are titanium (and her pronunciation of that is very clear), not tritanium like they are in TOS, but ordinary garden variety titanium like a cold war era Russian attack sub.
Ok, so just my opinion. I don't "like" the connie being in the box. I understand it, I have come to accept it, and I actually have 3 (2 TLCs, 1 Kelvin) and am about to have the discoprise. So I have what I want. But yes, I also understand how "it sucks" for people new to the game who don't have an army of alts for grinding. Those people aren't wrong to feel that way, and they aren't wrong to feel turned off. It's not a great situation, but it's one I've learned to "deal with". But if someone else isn't ok with it, that's ok too.
Ok, so just my opinion. I don't "like" the connie being in the box. I understand it, I have come to accept it, and I actually have 3 (2 TLCs, 1 Kelvin) and am about to have the discoprise. So I have what I want. But yes, I also understand how "it sucks" for people new to the game who don't have an army of alts for grinding. Those people aren't wrong to feel that way, and they aren't wrong to feel turned off. It's not a great situation, but it's one I've learned to "deal with". But if someone else isn't ok with it, that's ok too.
I agree. I wish lockboxes and Promos were not part of STO. But, I am lucky enough to be able to treat myself on stuff like the when I want it. I have the Temporal & Kelvin Connie as well as the Vengeance, Atlas, NX Refit on my original character and I'm about to grab the Disco Connie on my new main/co-main. I wish everyone else who wanted to do that could.
I really do think Cryptic needs to do Tier 6 Mastery account unlocks on these Promo/Lobi/Lockbox ships like the Jemmie ships to take the sting out of this class of purchase.
@thegrandnagus1 I said it there but I'll say it here too: Kudos to you for your community service Reddit thread in regards to this. Also, I think you're right, the Disco D7 does look a lot darker in the show. I don't know if I agree with you that it's black, but it definitely is as dark as gray can be before being black, I will say that.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
Nope, only to those desperately looking for something to be offended over.
Indeed. I'm a TOS fan who was a Star Trek fan since TOS was all there was and I love the damned thing.
Funny story about that: When Thomas re-did the Constitution movie-era refit model on his spare time, I took my Temporal Light Cruiser and started using the TMP/TWoK refit nacelle pylons, the Exeter neck, and the 8b hull material. When I saw the finale of Season 1 of Discovery and saw the Enterprise I thought, "Wow, that's MY ship!". When the Swarm was a new TFO, I was in a random PUG and someone on the team said "Hey, check out this guy in the Disco Enterprise!". So yeah, I'm super lucky they made the Disco Connie to look the way it does since it's exactly to my tastes and there are not customization options. I do hope someone at Cryptic finds the time to put in the straight pylons from the concept art though.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
According to what Burnham says in S2E1the hulls are titanium (and her pronunciation of that is very clear), not tritanium like they are in TOS, but ordinary garden variety titanium like a cold war era Russian attack sub.[/quote]
Watch the ships be made the same way we saw in the JJ trailer....sweaty guys with welders ticking away for several years.
Watch cinder block walls come next......
Ok, so just my opinion. I don't "like" the connie being in the box. I understand it, I have come to accept it, and I actually have 3 (2 TLCs, 1 Kelvin) and am about to have the discoprise. So I have what I want. But yes, I also understand how "it sucks" for people new to the game who don't have an army of alts for grinding. Those people aren't wrong to feel that way, and they aren't wrong to feel turned off. It's not a great situation, but it's one I've learned to "deal with". But if someone else isn't ok with it, that's ok too.
The things are that part of this is CBS, they want these things rare...the pet spam alone is a another good reason it can't be a c-store ship. (They'd have to patch out launching pets in public zones as well) People are blaming Cryptic for their greed but no one seems to blame CBS.
The uproar I see from some people on here, like I said earlier they had their head in the clouds if they thought it was going to be anything but a R&D ship. At least people have the option to obtain it for free, there are many games where you can't obtain shiny things without paying out money.
The things are that part of this is CBS, they want these things rare...the pet spam alone is a another good reason it can't be a c-store ship. (They'd have to patch out launching pets in public zones as well) People are blaming Cryptic for their greed but no one seems to blame CBS.
CBS has nothing to do with how cryptic decides to monetise their game. They can have in various story and ship design decisions but not on the price tags and rarity. The way of pricing is 100% Cryptic and familiar to many of us over the years
yes but this time they went too far its totally unfair that EVERY connie in a Star Trek Game is lootbox.......... i lost the fun at the game
OMG, "I want my shiny toys without having to pay for it"
This is a Free-To-Play Game. As much I really wanted and hoped that the DSC Connie and D7 would be C-Store, I totally understand why they are not. The have to have a way to fund the game, or we can kiss it goodbye. Hero ships (for the most part) have always been lockbox ships since the change to F2P. Plenty of DSC ships in the C-Store - just not the hero ones. Lots of DSC content in game, and more coming. But the premium stuff? Yes, that's going to be hard to get/rare.
I'm slightly disappointed, but not so silly that I'm going to throw my toys out of the pram and stop playing this game - I shall continue playing it, and enjoying it. So I don't have a DSC Connie. I have a couple of DSC Fed ships and Klingon Ships, I'm not going without content, lol. I just wont have a specific ship. That's life.
If STO was a sub-only game (no F2P option) things would be different. But it isn't. These two ships are going to be added to the R&D Promo Boxes, and every time the R&D promo comes round you'll have a chance to get them. It's how the game earns money so new content can be created. Don't like it? Campaign to get the game back to be subscription based only.
People need to grow-up. This is just a game, it's entertainment - not real life. The world has plenty of major things going on that truly deserve the time and energy that some have put into rants about a couple of ships.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
Except that the official big shooting model has "1:48" marked on it which agrees with all the paperwork for the show that put it at about 288 meters. It was designed to be that size and aside from the occasional error was shown to be that size in every episode. They simply never said the numbers in dialog since there was no valid reason to do so in any of the scripts they filmed and Roddenberry was a stickler for keeping the dialog clean and free of extraneous technobabble.
Is that supposed marking visible onscreen? As it's not then it's not canon.
There is no need to inflate the ship to 400 meters to fit everything seen in TOS in easily (with only one exception). That even includes the fact that the "engineering room" set actually represented THREE different engineering areas: the impulse deck (at the back of the saucer), and the port and starboard warp engineering decks (in the secondary hull). In fact, the only thing that is ever shown in TOS that would not fit the 289 meter ship is the fact that they made a slight scaling error in the shuttlebay miniature set that, if you unbend everything from the forced perspective and compare it to the shuttlecraft, puts the Enterprise at approximately 330 meters, not the ridiculous 400+.
Well obviously Drexler thought so when he drew up the MSD that took the sets into account. Obviously as he has actual measurements of those I'm more inclined to take his word over yours. Especially as his MSD appeared onscreen.
That means either the ENT MSD you talk about is wrong or the Defiant that appeared in ENT was not the same one that was lost in the TOS episode "The Tholian Web".
No. It means your assumptions are wrong and that your headcanon based on what some people thought 50 years ago doesn't trump what is shown.
The ENT producers probably inflated the size because they were fixated on the idea that ships would have to get bigger over time, instead of thinking about how new tech tends to be smaller and more efficient than older stuff. That semi-trailer sized unit with the dilithium crystals in it in ENT that Tripp was always dinking with was about the size of an office desk in TOS for instance. With that kind of miniaturization you can pack a lot into a WWII battleship-sized hull. They even show that effect between The Cage and TOS, the dorsal sensor dome was an entire deck high in Cage, but much, much shorter and flatter in TOS.
Well that goes against Drexlers directly stated intent so I can safely ignore it. But it does show, that, interestingly, the same few people keep making wild assumptions for why ships get rescaled. And those are always TOS centric. TNG did not miniturise compared to TOS just because things were more advanced.
Lol, that would be quite a refit, one that would make the TOS to movie version refit look trivial. The look is totally different,
Sure thing. Except, no. It would require the rebuild of the slope of the saucer, a new bridge dome, a new impulse assembly, new pylons, and new nacelles. Far less that the complete overhaul the TMP got. The DSC one needs some components swapping out, the TMP one needs stripping down to the bones and building up.
and nothing short of a timeline reset could possibly make the two match up without a lot of problems. For one thing DSC uses a completely different design philosophy from TOS, and that extends to the basic shapes that make up the ship. What are they supposed to do, wave a magic wand and make the off-kilter art-deco shapes suddenly flow into the googie-like shapes of TOS?
Oh look, it's the same stupid argument TMP got. The single difference is you've had 40 years to headcanon TMP plus a hefty dose of nostalgia filter whereas DSC has only had a year so far.
And looks are not the only thing different, the technology is a primitive whackadoodle mix of ENT taken only slightly forward and a kind of generic pseudo Star Wars. They treat warp drive almost as if it was a jump drive instead of the realspace FTL drive shown in all the Treks up to (and including) ENT. In fact, in TOS it was standard doctrine to fight in warp (and they even did a little of that in ENT after Reed figured out how to balance the phasing to allow them to shoot out of both the shields and the warp bubble at the same time), but in DSC they apparently have some trouble even talking to other ships in warp much less shooting at them.
Oh look, more TOS worship. TOS was a flawed and dull premise that every instance of the franchise from TMP onwards ignored as it tried to iron out more realistic and reasonable rules and looks for the franchise. Obviously DSC draws more from ENT than TOS, because ENT is a more relevant part of the franchise and works more like the TNG era than TOS did.
Actually they are ignoring TOS because, out of all of Trek, Les Moonves hated TOS the most, and he deliberately hired people who likewise hate (or at least show contempt for) TOS to produce DSC.
For example, in a video interview the set designer for DSC talked about how much she hated the TOS esthetics (what she called the "carboard Enterprise") and that in her opinion the only design that was worth anything was for "The Undiscovered Country" and so she based the DSC interiors on that. CBS seems to be making at least a little headway in clearing out that toxic situation, but they have a considerable way to go.
Not liking TOS is not 'Toxic', it is an opinion. You do not get to enforce what shows other fans like, you do not get to enforce what shows they do not like, you are not part of the production team so don't get to enforce what their staff use for influence, and you do not get to enforce a mandatory enjoyment of TOS onto anybody else.
As it happens I agree with her. TOS is an aberration, it is anomalus. It does not look, sound, or feel like any other part of the franchise. From TMP to ENT the franchise ignore it and DSC should continue to do so. That is not related to my enjoyment of TOS (I like it, mostly), it's an objective fact. Elements of every other TV show and film carries into others except TOS.
If not the Temporal Cold War then some other time intervention (or the lack of a necessary one) or some other reality-warping event would have had to cause the changes.
According to what Burnham says in S2E1the hulls are titanium (and her pronunciation of that is very clear), not tritanium like they are in TOS, but ordinary garden variety titanium like a cold war era Russian attack sub.
Being made of a real metal (which forms parts of actual space craft and not just subs, though that would make your point look stupid) is different from being made from a fiction metal, why?
I thought the JJprise was supposed to be closer to 700m which as I remember set off a huge amount of unnecessary nerd rage.
No. The Konni is 366m long. The model work, with its windows and cutaways show it to be the size it was built at. The larger size comes from the DVD features which are based on a last minute change where the shuttlebay was given two decks. Unlike the TOS Conni being scaled up in ENT, the structure of the ship was not changed for the new model work done for IN and then for BEY meaning they still considered the ship 366m and the shuttlebay a mistake (the shuttlebay reverts to one deck at a later point in 09).
Harrison also says the Dreadnought Class is twice as long. Later Harrison jumps from the bridge of the Vengeance to the saucer rim, a jump with Sulu places at 40 metres, making the Dreadnought Class around 750ish metres and the Conni, therefor, 350ish metres. This is in ID, a whole film and a few years after 09 supposedly scaled it up.
Another reason often cited is the need to for the National Ignition Facility and Budweiser Brewery into the ship, however, even a Galaxy Class sized Konni would be far too small to fit those sets and the Koni would have to be the size of an Imperial Star Destroyer to do so. So with the model easily scalable due to the open windows and exposed decking, the two deck shuttlebay can be dismissed as an error in the same way Voyagers magic shuttlebay (that can launch a Delta Flyer wider than it's doors, with room to spare) or the HMS Bounty tripling in size from Vulcan to hovering over the whaling ship.
Also, semi-unrelated, the Eaglemoss collection prints sizes on its magazines, and with ships from 2002 onwards they use the original CGI files CBS provides them. The Konni has no size given in the magazine at all (unusual) but the Kelvin has a relatively small size of 215m listed where as the non-canon blu-ray extras seem to think it was larger.
Something similar happened with the DS9 technical manual, where the sizes of all ships were inflated, but for some reason 'fans' just ignored those but took the inaccurate DVD extras sizes to heart and used them as another beating stick against the KT films, because they're a certian type of 'fan' who're just desperate for something to hate.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I remember that TOS Episode with Bill Nye, the Science Guy who spent an entire Act going over the measurements of the Constitution. Yep, there it was right on film, so it has to be canon.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
I remember watching that season finale, watching those swarms of fighters and shuttles. I almost threw my glass across the room, "Where the hell do these ships keep all those craft???"
Even the lcars on the Discovery GAVE the size of the Enterprise......it is of the TOS size...and the display had STRAIGHT struts.
A sorta middle finger to TOS fans?
Discovery seems to really champion Enterprise, and try to chuck away TOS for some reason.
Kurtzman, as does, JJ, think 'bigger is better' and no sense of subtlety, as the designer of the Beyond Enterprise A said on Trek Yards.
Funny how Kurtzman said he'll be 'free of cannon' in season 3.....he was barely 'imprisoned' by cannon to begin with. <_<;;
I'm not a fan of the TOS designs, they have not aged well. The Discovery Connie is superior in every way.
Please don't aim the phaser at me
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I am the opposite.
To me, either makes a prequel that looks right, or make no prequel.
And, to me, TOS is fine and has aged well.
That said, the Discovery Connie is a beautiful looking ship
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Nope. If it's onscreen it's canon. Not what some guy says and some other guys then reprint in 50 year old books. Don't like it? Take it up with CBS, they own the IP, they say it dosn't count unless it's onscreen.
Nobody said it had to be 'bigger to be better'. The reason for the MSD sizing the ship to 400 odd metres in ENT was because it needed to fit the interior sets in realistically and the non-canon tiny size was far too small to do that, so an official canonical MSD set the size.
All of that is bollocks. DSC is a retcon to the Cage to make the Conni fit in the iniage established by every film or show since TMP. It'll probably still be refitted into the Where No Man... version and into the TOS version at some point in the future, all that was retconned was the Cage build.
The visuals of DSC are supposed to look like technology from ENT and the USS Kelvin slowly becoming the technology from TWoK up to NEM. It's ignoring The Cage because it (like TOS) deviates from that lineage. The Conni was never a ship of the TS era, it was always old, the angular DSC ships are the modern ships of the TOS era. The Conni will still get it's TOS refit in a attempt to bring the aging design up to scratch with the modern ships like the Crossfield, but it's obviously going to be unsuccessful prompting the massive refit in the 70s.
The Temporal Cold War is a closed loop, it has no effect on DSC because DSC is TOS' past. The DSC Conni is a straight retcon not some time travel malaky.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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It dosn't matter what they say, it only matters what is shown onscreen and that is that the TOS Enterprise is bigger than it was originally designed as soon as the interiors were built. Conversely the KT Conni is much smaller than Abrams thinks it is due to the interiors shown.
But you like the controversy so you'll listen to writers spewing headcanon over what's onscreen for... reasons.
And writers aren't allowed cannons because they're not battleships.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It's a ok design....but not a connie. Also.....I don't like the grey....looks like it's made from steel or something. >_>
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
To me, I want more colors....I hate industrial, looks so.....primitive.
to me, less is more, and TOS has what I like. If the Discoprise was some older ship, it would work, it looks less advanced to me.
The Discovery Connie makes me think Battleship
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Except that the official big shooting model has "1:48" marked on it which agrees with all the paperwork for the show that put it at about 288 meters. It was designed to be that size and aside from the occasional error was shown to be that size in every episode. They simply never said the numbers in dialog since there was no valid reason to do so in any of the scripts they filmed and Roddenberry was a stickler for keeping the dialog clean and free of extraneous technobabble.
There is no need to inflate the ship to 400 meters to fit everything seen in TOS in easily (with only one exception). That even includes the fact that the "engineering room" set actually represented THREE different engineering areas: the impulse deck (at the back of the saucer), and the port and starboard warp engineering decks (in the secondary hull). In fact, the only thing that is ever shown in TOS that would not fit the 289 meter ship is the fact that they made a slight scaling error in the shuttlebay miniature set that, if you unbend everything from the forced perspective and compare it to the shuttlecraft, puts the Enterprise at approximately 330 meters, not the ridiculous 400+.
That means either the ENT MSD you talk about is wrong or the Defiant that appeared in ENT was not the same one that was lost in the TOS episode "The Tholian Web". The ENT producers probably inflated the size because they were fixated on the idea that ships would have to get bigger over time, instead of thinking about how new tech tends to be smaller and more efficient than older stuff. That semi-trailer sized unit with the dilithium crystals in it in ENT that Tripp was always dinking with was about the size of an office desk in TOS for instance. With that kind of miniaturization you can pack a lot into a WWII battleship-sized hull. They even show that effect between The Cage and TOS, the dorsal sensor dome was an entire deck high in Cage, but much, much shorter and flatter in TOS.
Lol, that would be quite a refit, one that would make the TOS to movie version refit look trivial. The look is totally different, and nothing short of a timeline reset could possibly make the two match up without a lot of problems. For one thing DSC uses a completely different design philosophy from TOS, and that extends to the basic shapes that make up the ship. What are they supposed to do, wave a magic wand and make the off-kilter art-deco shapes suddenly flow into the googie-like shapes of TOS?
And looks are not the only thing different, the technology is a primitive whackadoodle mix of ENT taken only slightly forward and a kind of generic pseudo Star Wars. They treat warp drive almost as if it was a jump drive instead of the realspace FTL drive shown in all the Treks up to (and including) ENT. In fact, in TOS it was standard doctrine to fight in warp (and they even did a little of that in ENT after Reed figured out how to balance the phasing to allow them to shoot out of both the shields and the warp bubble at the same time), but in DSC they apparently have some trouble even talking to other ships in warp much less shooting at them.
And speaking of shooting, the average combat distance in TOS was around 40,000km and they rarely missed, whereas I have some doubts that the DSC ships could even see each other at that range, and they certainly could not hit each other even if they could see them according to the pitiful showing in regard to accuracy in every battle scene in the show. Worse yet for DSC, TOS combat has been done at ranges of at least up to 90,000km if you listen to the dialog during those battles.
Then again, the DSC sensors are so rotten that they get out-performed by a toy telescope aimed out a window in the first episode, so that cannot help much in trying to hit anything. Apparently they cannot see where they are going in warp very well either since the Discovery crew had no idea they were heading into an asteroid field in S2E1, whereas in TOS they chased Mudd through an asteroid field at warp, tracking all the asteroids without undue strain before the loon burned out his engines and lost control while trying to shake off Enterprise.
Actually they are ignoring TOS because, out of all of Trek, Les Moonves hated TOS the most, and he deliberately hired people who likewise hate (or at least show contempt for) TOS to produce DSC. For example, in a video interview the set designer for DSC talked about how much she hated the TOS esthetics (what she called the "carboard Enterprise") and that in her opinion the only design that was worth anything was for "The Undiscovered Country" and so she based the DSC interiors on that. CBS seems to be making at least a little headway in clearing out that toxic situation, but they have a considerable way to go.
If not the Temporal Cold War then some other time intervention (or the lack of a necessary one) or some other reality-warping event would have had to cause the changes. Star Trek under CBS is rather like The Terminator series in reverse, with technology degrading (in function anyway) instead of improving each loop. And anyway, if the TCW was an isolated "closed loop" as you say then ENT would not have happened at all as far as the outside world was concerned since it was involved in that war and would be just as sealed away as the rest.
According to what Burnham says in S2E1the hulls are titanium (and her pronunciation of that is very clear), not tritanium like they are in TOS, but ordinary garden variety titanium like a cold war era Russian attack sub.
Nope, only to those desperately looking for something to be offended over.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I agree. I wish lockboxes and Promos were not part of STO. But, I am lucky enough to be able to treat myself on stuff like the when I want it. I have the Temporal & Kelvin Connie as well as the Vengeance, Atlas, NX Refit on my original character and I'm about to grab the Disco Connie on my new main/co-main. I wish everyone else who wanted to do that could.
I really do think Cryptic needs to do Tier 6 Mastery account unlocks on these Promo/Lobi/Lockbox ships like the Jemmie ships to take the sting out of this class of purchase.
@thegrandnagus1 I said it there but I'll say it here too: Kudos to you for your community service Reddit thread in regards to this. Also, I think you're right, the Disco D7 does look a lot darker in the show. I don't know if I agree with you that it's black, but it definitely is as dark as gray can be before being black, I will say that.
Indeed. I'm a TOS fan who was a Star Trek fan since TOS was all there was and I love the damned thing.
Funny story about that: When Thomas re-did the Constitution movie-era refit model on his spare time, I took my Temporal Light Cruiser and started using the TMP/TWoK refit nacelle pylons, the Exeter neck, and the 8b hull material. When I saw the finale of Season 1 of Discovery and saw the Enterprise I thought, "Wow, that's MY ship!". When the Swarm was a new TFO, I was in a random PUG and someone on the team said "Hey, check out this guy in the Disco Enterprise!". So yeah, I'm super lucky they made the Disco Connie to look the way it does since it's exactly to my tastes and there are not customization options. I do hope someone at Cryptic finds the time to put in the straight pylons from the concept art though.
According to what Burnham says in S2E1the hulls are titanium (and her pronunciation of that is very clear), not tritanium like they are in TOS, but ordinary garden variety titanium like a cold war era Russian attack sub.[/quote]
Watch the ships be made the same way we saw in the JJ trailer....sweaty guys with welders ticking away for several years.
Watch cinder block walls come next......
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11186423
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The things are that part of this is CBS, they want these things rare...the pet spam alone is a another good reason it can't be a c-store ship. (They'd have to patch out launching pets in public zones as well) People are blaming Cryptic for their greed but no one seems to blame CBS.
The uproar I see from some people on here, like I said earlier they had their head in the clouds if they thought it was going to be anything but a R&D ship. At least people have the option to obtain it for free, there are many games where you can't obtain shiny things without paying out money.
CBS has nothing to do with how cryptic decides to monetise their game. They can have in various story and ship design decisions but not on the price tags and rarity. The way of pricing is 100% Cryptic and familiar to many of us over the years
Except the T1 TOS Connie and the T2 free Connie cruiser. But you are correct that every T6 Connie is in a box of some kind.
OMG, "I want my shiny toys without having to pay for it"
This is a Free-To-Play Game. As much I really wanted and hoped that the DSC Connie and D7 would be C-Store, I totally understand why they are not. The have to have a way to fund the game, or we can kiss it goodbye. Hero ships (for the most part) have always been lockbox ships since the change to F2P. Plenty of DSC ships in the C-Store - just not the hero ones. Lots of DSC content in game, and more coming. But the premium stuff? Yes, that's going to be hard to get/rare.
I'm slightly disappointed, but not so silly that I'm going to throw my toys out of the pram and stop playing this game - I shall continue playing it, and enjoying it. So I don't have a DSC Connie. I have a couple of DSC Fed ships and Klingon Ships, I'm not going without content, lol. I just wont have a specific ship. That's life.
If STO was a sub-only game (no F2P option) things would be different. But it isn't. These two ships are going to be added to the R&D Promo Boxes, and every time the R&D promo comes round you'll have a chance to get them. It's how the game earns money so new content can be created. Don't like it? Campaign to get the game back to be subscription based only.
People need to grow-up. This is just a game, it's entertainment - not real life. The world has plenty of major things going on that truly deserve the time and energy that some have put into rants about a couple of ships.
Is that supposed marking visible onscreen? As it's not then it's not canon.
Well obviously Drexler thought so when he drew up the MSD that took the sets into account. Obviously as he has actual measurements of those I'm more inclined to take his word over yours. Especially as his MSD appeared onscreen.
No. It means your assumptions are wrong and that your headcanon based on what some people thought 50 years ago doesn't trump what is shown.
Well that goes against Drexlers directly stated intent so I can safely ignore it. But it does show, that, interestingly, the same few people keep making wild assumptions for why ships get rescaled. And those are always TOS centric. TNG did not miniturise compared to TOS just because things were more advanced.
Sure thing. Except, no. It would require the rebuild of the slope of the saucer, a new bridge dome, a new impulse assembly, new pylons, and new nacelles. Far less that the complete overhaul the TMP got. The DSC one needs some components swapping out, the TMP one needs stripping down to the bones and building up.
Oh look, it's the same stupid argument TMP got. The single difference is you've had 40 years to headcanon TMP plus a hefty dose of nostalgia filter whereas DSC has only had a year so far.
Oh look, more TOS worship. TOS was a flawed and dull premise that every instance of the franchise from TMP onwards ignored as it tried to iron out more realistic and reasonable rules and looks for the franchise. Obviously DSC draws more from ENT than TOS, because ENT is a more relevant part of the franchise and works more like the TNG era than TOS did.
Oh goody, a lack of understanding of how drama works and a rose tinted fabrication of TOS in the bargain.
Midnight's Edge conspiracy bollocks.
Not liking TOS is not 'Toxic', it is an opinion. You do not get to enforce what shows other fans like, you do not get to enforce what shows they do not like, you are not part of the production team so don't get to enforce what their staff use for influence, and you do not get to enforce a mandatory enjoyment of TOS onto anybody else.
As it happens I agree with her. TOS is an aberration, it is anomalus. It does not look, sound, or feel like any other part of the franchise. From TMP to ENT the franchise ignore it and DSC should continue to do so. That is not related to my enjoyment of TOS (I like it, mostly), it's an objective fact. Elements of every other TV show and film carries into others except TOS.
Nope.
Nope.
Being made of a real metal (which forms parts of actual space craft and not just subs, though that would make your point look stupid) is different from being made from a fiction metal, why?
No. The Konni is 366m long. The model work, with its windows and cutaways show it to be the size it was built at. The larger size comes from the DVD features which are based on a last minute change where the shuttlebay was given two decks. Unlike the TOS Conni being scaled up in ENT, the structure of the ship was not changed for the new model work done for IN and then for BEY meaning they still considered the ship 366m and the shuttlebay a mistake (the shuttlebay reverts to one deck at a later point in 09).
Harrison also says the Dreadnought Class is twice as long. Later Harrison jumps from the bridge of the Vengeance to the saucer rim, a jump with Sulu places at 40 metres, making the Dreadnought Class around 750ish metres and the Conni, therefor, 350ish metres. This is in ID, a whole film and a few years after 09 supposedly scaled it up.
Another reason often cited is the need to for the National Ignition Facility and Budweiser Brewery into the ship, however, even a Galaxy Class sized Konni would be far too small to fit those sets and the Koni would have to be the size of an Imperial Star Destroyer to do so. So with the model easily scalable due to the open windows and exposed decking, the two deck shuttlebay can be dismissed as an error in the same way Voyagers magic shuttlebay (that can launch a Delta Flyer wider than it's doors, with room to spare) or the HMS Bounty tripling in size from Vulcan to hovering over the whaling ship.
Also, semi-unrelated, the Eaglemoss collection prints sizes on its magazines, and with ships from 2002 onwards they use the original CGI files CBS provides them. The Konni has no size given in the magazine at all (unusual) but the Kelvin has a relatively small size of 215m listed where as the non-canon blu-ray extras seem to think it was larger.
Something similar happened with the DS9 technical manual, where the sizes of all ships were inflated, but for some reason 'fans' just ignored those but took the inaccurate DVD extras sizes to heart and used them as another beating stick against the KT films, because they're a certian type of 'fan' who're just desperate for something to hate.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008