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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (teaser)

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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,880 Arc User
    It would be interesting if the Empire could take out the Planet Destroyer weapon system of the Death Star and equip it on something the size of a Star Destroyer. Would be able to buy a few Planet-Destroyer Star Destroyers for the price of one Death Star. The Star Destroyer name seems slightly idiotic when it can't even destroy a planet.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 32,135 Arc User
    they did - it's called the conquerer​​
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,236 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    In this case it felt more like trying to break the surviving Resistance fighters. Show them how powerless they are. Prolong the suffering.

    It wasn't tactics. it was just trying to terrorize the Resistance.
    That's exactly what it was, yes. Palpatine was trying to run a new empire, and used some pretty fair military tactics in the process (although the Big Killer Base thing is seldom a good idea, as it represents a single point of failure for any campaign employing it); Snoke and his underlings seemed to be convinced that they could just break the spirits of their opponents and make them submit. As has been said in another context recently, the cruelty is the point. (It's also part of why they lost in the end - they spent too much time and effort trying to frighten the Resistance, rather than simply defeating it. One asteroid dropped from orbit would have destroyed everyone in that base, underground or not. Instead, they took a small fleet of ground vehicles and aerospace fighters in, as if they intended to seize the base and use it themselves.)
    Like with the Death Stars, if the FO had actually bothered to put their fleet and Snoke's mega-super-duper star destroyer around Starkiller Base then the Resistance would have been able to do sod all to it. Hell, if they'd just trained their own weapons on low power inside their atmosphere they could have wiped out Solo's task force.
    But, 1: it had a planetary shield, 2: it didn't have armor. They couldn't just shoot down Solo's guys.

    the purpose of the original Death Star is a bit ambiguous. Sure you can say "Why not build a fleet of Star Destroyers instead?" As has been rightly pointed out there are many things you can use a fleet of Star Destroyers for that you can't use the Death Star for. But.... the Empire already HAD multiple fleets of Star Destroyers. They built it because it could do things Star Destroyers couldn't.

    It had a planetary shield and...? Shields can be breached which is why you need multiple layers of defence. If the planet I can't remember the name of had some bigger ships in atmosphere as well as outside the shield gate, RO would have been a different film. Same with Starkiller Base.

    I'm not disputing the role of the superweapons, just pointing out they aren't as flawed as they are shown to be if only the Empire/FO tried a bit harder to defend them.​​
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    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

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    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,880 Arc User
    they did - it's called the conquerer​​

    Trading Card Games don't count and the Darksaber in the novels never worked.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,466 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    It would be interesting if the Empire could take out the Planet Destroyer weapon system of the Death Star and equip it on something the size of a Star Destroyer. Would be able to buy a few Planet-Destroyer Star Destroyers for the price of one Death Star. The Star Destroyer name seems slightly idiotic when it can't even destroy a planet.
    It is a Star Destroyer in the same sense a Starship is a Starship. It's a prefix to indicate it's something in space. A starship doesn't actually ship stars. A Star Destroyer isn't something that destroys stars, it's a destroyer flying between the stars.

    Of course, it's also a horrible misnomer for its role by naval standards.
    It could probably be called something like "Star Flight Deck Cruiser" or "Star Cruiser" or "Star Dreadnought" or "Star Carrier"...
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 32,135 Arc User
    dreadnought is not a modern naval ship type either...despite so many instances of sci-fi using it as one while also following naval classification otherwise perfectly

    it stopped being used after WW1​​
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,466 Arc User
    dreadnought is not a modern naval ship type either...despite so many instances of sci-fi using it as one while also following naval classification otherwise perfectly

    it stopped being used after WW1​​

    I don't think it's required that the ship type has to be "modern".

    It seems to me the dreadnought is basically just a type that a modern navy doesn't need. Or, maybe, isn't even possible anymore. I mean, the name literally suggests "fear nothing", but what lone ship class could say that from it now?
    There is always a air-to-ship missile or torpedo that could sink your ship, and probably no one is going to try sink your ship with cannons.

    With Sci-fi space combat, you could of course decide otherwise.
    In Star Wars it doesn't seem like there are ship-killer missiles or torpedoes*. You always need a large amount of bombs or torpedoes do take out any ship, so "Dreadnought" might still have a somewhat meaningful role.

    *) Well, with TLJ, I expect the rapid development of Holdo-Class Hyper-Space Missiles that can actually do that... Well, if the Resistance somehow finds the resources to build them, if not, they'll probably be developed by someone else and carry another name, maybe Tarkin-Class Hypers-Space Missile.)
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,817 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    they did - it's called the conquerer​​

    Trading Card Games don't count and the Darksaber in the novels never worked.

    Legends also had the Eclipse Super Star Destroyer, the superlaser was less powerful than the one on the Death Star but it could still devastate an entire planet, it just couldn't completely destroy it like the Death Star .
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,236 Bug Hunter
    starkaos wrote: »
    It would be interesting if the Empire could take out the Planet Destroyer weapon system of the Death Star and equip it on something the size of a Star Destroyer. Would be able to buy a few Planet-Destroyer Star Destroyers for the price of one Death Star. The Star Destroyer name seems slightly idiotic when it can't even destroy a planet.
    It is a Star Destroyer in the same sense a Starship is a Starship. It's a prefix to indicate it's something in space. A starship doesn't actually ship stars. A Star Destroyer isn't something that destroys stars, it's a destroyer flying between the stars.

    Of course, it's also a horrible misnomer for its role by naval standards.
    It could probably be called something like "Star Flight Deck Cruiser" or "Star Cruiser" or "Star Dreadnought" or "Star Carrier"...

    It's not a destroyer by navel standards because it's not a ship. It's a starship, it's a destroyer because it destroys things. They're also bigger than cruisers because destroy is a stronger word than cruise.
    The big ones are even called Super-Star Destroyers and the smaller ones are Light Destroyers because they're not weight classes like a Navy, they're just descriptions of what they do.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,903 Arc User
    So that "hiatus" has an announced endpoint already.

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/three-star-wars-films-added-164910115.html

    2 years, and not even that long because the first one will have to start filming early next year to make the announced release date.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,903 Arc User
    > @rattler2 said:
    > Yea... the "running them down at sublight" thing was kind of... stupid. The Hyperspace Tracker though was an interesting gubbin and clear technological advancement. But that one particular thing is a rather glaring issue, and evilmark is right. The smart, tactical thing to do would be to get some forces ahead and do a pincer move, leaving your prey with nowhere to go. In this case it felt more like trying to break the surviving Resistance fighters. Show them how powerless they are. Prolong the suffering.
    >
    > It wasn't tactics. it was just trying to terrorize the Resistance. Honestly the Emperor had better tactics at Endor with setting the trap for the Alliance.

    According to every single incarnation of the Star Wars visual dictionaries, cross section books, and essential guides to vehicles and weapons all ships use fuel, fuel is not infinite, it can't be. As for why they didn't jump a force ahead and cut them off, Ren and Snoke were completely distracted with Rey and Hux is the kind of officer Vader would have chocked out 5 minutes after promoting him because he has no imagination.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,817 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    So that "hiatus" has an announced endpoint already.

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/three-star-wars-films-added-164910115.html

    2 years, and not even that long because the first one will have to start filming early next year to make the announced release date.

    So from 2021 to 2027 each Christmas is going to alternate between star wars and avatar, interesting.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,543 Arc User
    Given that the next trilogy is going to come from the guys who ran Game of Thrones, I just hope Disney insists that they have to light each scene well enough that you can see what the characters are doing.
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,903 Arc User
    > @evilmark444 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > So that "hiatus" has an announced endpoint already.
    >
    > https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/three-star-wars-films-added-164910115.html
    >
    > 2 years, and not even that long because the first one will have to start filming early next year to make the announced release date.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > So from 2021 to 2027 each Christmas is going to alternate between star wars and avatar, interesting.

    I honestly don't care at all about Avatar, the first one was abysmal.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,903 Arc User
    > @jonsills said:
    > Given that the next trilogy is going to come from the guys who ran Game of Thrones, I just hope Disney insists that they have to light each scene well enough that you can see what the characters are doing.

    There is no confirmation if the next trilogy will be from the GoT guys or from Rian Johnson, both are developing a new trilogy and as yet it has not been officially announced which one is up first.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,454 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    I honestly don't care at all about Avatar, the first one was abysmal.

    It was alright... but it was pretty much Pocahantas in Space.
    There is no confirmation if the next trilogy will be from the GoT guys or from Rian Johnson, both are developing a new trilogy and as yet it has not been officially announced which one is up first.

    After Ep 7 do you really expect Disney to let Johnson anywhere NEAR Star Wars?
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,903 Arc User
    > @rattler2 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > I honestly don't care at all about Avatar, the first one was abysmal.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > It was alright... but it was pretty much Pocahantas in Space.
    > There is no confirmation if the next trilogy will be from the GoT guys or from Rian Johnson, both are developing a new trilogy and as yet it has not been officially announced which one is up first.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > After Ep 7 do you really expect Disney to let Johnson anywhere NEAR Star Wars?

    Disney themselves have vehemently denied that Johnson has left Star Wars in any way. As recently as 2 weeks ago Kathleen Kennedy and Bob Iger flat out stated that Johnson's trilogy is still in development, and that he is working extremely closely with the story group and the GoT guys developing another trilogy. Disney quite clearly don't give a tribble about the so called problems with episode 7 (best SW movie since ROTJ).
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,543 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @jonsills said:
    > Given that the next trilogy is going to come from the guys who ran Game of Thrones, I just hope Disney insists that they have to light each scene well enough that you can see what the characters are doing.

    There is no confirmation if the next trilogy will be from the GoT guys or from Rian Johnson, both are developing a new trilogy and as yet it has not been officially announced which one is up first.
    Actually, it has been confirmed. Rian Johnson is still developing his trilogy as well; apparently it will be the trilogy to follow this one.

    ('Cause a long-term contract I have signed,
    We're gonna make these movies 'til the end of time
    With my Yoda,
    Y-O-D-A, Yoda...


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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,236 Bug Hunter
    rattler2 wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    I honestly don't care at all about Avatar, the first one was abysmal.

    It was alright... but it was pretty much Pocahantas in Space.
    There is no confirmation if the next trilogy will be from the GoT guys or from Rian Johnson, both are developing a new trilogy and as yet it has not been officially announced which one is up first.

    After Ep 7 do you really expect Disney to let Johnson anywhere NEAR Star Wars?

    Why wouldn't they? It was a successful film. I don't know if Johnson himself would want to do one after the flaming hatred thrown at him by the toxic sewage that litters the internet but unless they're actually concerned for his safety Disney has no reason not to put the director of a successful film onto new work for them.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,466 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Given that the next trilogy is going to come from the guys who ran Game of Thrones, I just hope Disney insists that they have to light each scene well enough that you can see what the characters are doing.

    Space is dark. And no one can hear you scream.

    They'll double down on it. Probably good for cost-cutting!
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,236 Bug Hunter
    jonsills wrote: »
    Given that the next trilogy is going to come from the guys who ran Game of Thrones, I just hope Disney insists that they have to light each scene well enough that you can see what the characters are doing.

    Providing they don't hire the DP of Solo it should be light enough.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,903 Arc User
    > @rattler2 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > I honestly don't care at all about Avatar, the first one was abysmal.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > It was alright... but it was pretty much Pocahantas in Space.
    >

    Being "pocahantas in space" is a huge huge part of the problem given that the real Pocahontas was a kidnapped 12 year old r.a.p.e.d by john smith and the whole story of her saving him from being killed by her people waz a lie he used in several other places in the world when he stole other children. It is disgusting and offensive to perpetuate the myth a pedo made up to protect himself by making pastices of it and Cameron should be ashamed.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,600 Arc User
    I think Avatar was more Dances With Wolves than Pocahontas.

    But even more than that... a story about a crippled guy who is chosen to receive an alien body, and while at first he's clueless and dismissive of the alien culture, he eventually embraces it to the point that he falls in love with an alien lady and sides with the aliens when the relationship with the humans goes sour due to human greed. By the end, he thinks of himself as one of the aliens rather than a human. I am speaking, of course, of Timothy Zahn's 2002 novel, Manta's Gift. Way better than Avatar, with more interesting aliens and a more interesting world (Jupiter), and no clueless hamfisted attempt at a green aesop.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,056 Arc User
    I think Avatar was more Dances With Wolves than Pocahontas.

    But even more than that... a story about a crippled guy who is chosen to receive an alien body, and while at first he's clueless and dismissive of the alien culture, he eventually embraces it to the point that he falls in love with an alien lady and sides with the aliens when the relationship with the humans goes sour due to human greed. By the end, he thinks of himself as one of the aliens rather than a human. I am speaking, of course, of Timothy Zahn's 2002 novel, Manta's Gift. Way better than Avatar, with more interesting aliens and a more interesting world (Jupiter), and no clueless hamfisted attempt at a green aesop.
    You mean you didn't think of "Fern Gully: the last Rainforest"?

    Synopsis: evul loggers are clearcutting the planet and must be stopped! The main character was a kid fresh out of high school who was nominally employed by the evul guys. Then he learns forests are good after getting shrunken and abducted by the fairies living there. Oh and the center of the forest houses a magic tree that was grown to imprison a pollution monster. Guess how many pieces it ends up in?
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  • alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,600 Arc User
    I think Avatar was more Dances With Wolves than Pocahontas.

    But even more than that... a story about a crippled guy who is chosen to receive an alien body, and while at first he's clueless and dismissive of the alien culture, he eventually embraces it to the point that he falls in love with an alien lady and sides with the aliens when the relationship with the humans goes sour due to human greed. By the end, he thinks of himself as one of the aliens rather than a human. I am speaking, of course, of Timothy Zahn's 2002 novel, Manta's Gift. Way better than Avatar, with more interesting aliens and a more interesting world (Jupiter), and no clueless hamfisted attempt at a green aesop.
    You mean you didn't think of "Fern Gully: the last Rainforest"?

    Synopsis: evul loggers are clearcutting the planet and must be stopped! The main character was a kid fresh out of high school who was nominally employed by the evul guys. Then he learns forests are good after getting shrunken and abducted by the fairies living there. Oh and the center of the forest houses a magic tree that was grown to imprison a pollution monster. Guess how many pieces it ends up in?

    Yeah, that's another common comparison I've seen. Actually, as overblown as Ferngully's conservation message was, I think it was still better than Avatar's. No Magical Native Americans, and the loggers aren't so much evil as they don't really understand what they're destroying. Still had that whole irrational "spirit of nature" thing going on, though...
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,056 Arc User
    I think Avatar was more Dances With Wolves than Pocahontas.

    But even more than that... a story about a crippled guy who is chosen to receive an alien body, and while at first he's clueless and dismissive of the alien culture, he eventually embraces it to the point that he falls in love with an alien lady and sides with the aliens when the relationship with the humans goes sour due to human greed. By the end, he thinks of himself as one of the aliens rather than a human. I am speaking, of course, of Timothy Zahn's 2002 novel, Manta's Gift. Way better than Avatar, with more interesting aliens and a more interesting world (Jupiter), and no clueless hamfisted attempt at a green aesop.
    You mean you didn't think of "Fern Gully: the last Rainforest"?

    Synopsis: evul loggers are clearcutting the planet and must be stopped! The main character was a kid fresh out of high school who was nominally employed by the evul guys. Then he learns forests are good after getting shrunken and abducted by the fairies living there. Oh and the center of the forest houses a magic tree that was grown to imprison a pollution monster. Guess how many pieces it ends up in?
    Yeah, that's another common comparison I've seen. Actually, as overblown as Ferngully's conservation message was, I think it was still better than Avatar's. No Magical Native Americans, and the loggers aren't so much evil as they don't really understand what they're destroying. Still had that whole irrational "spirit of nature" thing going on, though...
    Well, the locals in Fern Gully were literally magic fairies, sooo….
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  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 13,172 Arc User
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,903 Arc User
    > @zedbrightlander1 said:
    > Looks like The Internet MEMEd the * bleep * out of this.
    > https://google.com/search?source=hp&ei=y6rqXJ_9Haj45gK0v7uQCg&q=no+one's+ever+really+gone+meme&oq=No+one’s+ever+really+gone.&gs_l=psy-ab.1.2.0i22i30l10.3106.3106..6180...1.0..0.229.340.0j1j1......0....2j1..gws-wiz.....6..35i39.-yZmowCdmIA
    >
    > Of course...
    >
    > ...this whole meme thing has jumped the shark.

    Wasn't there some random on the forum a few weeks/months ago convinced some new EU law was the end of memes?
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 32,135 Arc User
    yes, and as i recall...the law passed - but good luck actually enforcing it, especially given most memes originate in america​​
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    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

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    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.

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