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Rise of the TFO trolls

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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    The point is that they are getting rewarded for that: just standing there. It's not fair

    How is it not fair?

    I am not trying to be snarky, I just really don't understand that opinion.

    They're taking nothing from you, and if you don't like the idea of them doing less then you and getting the same reward.. you have the option to also do nothing.

    I don't see anything unfair about it.. you can play how you want and so can they. Again, if this behavior was making things tougher for the other players.. I would totally agree, but in this case it's completely harmless.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    They don't get the same reward, they get a much higher and better reward. You by running around are the one getting the smaller reward.

    So what, should I just stay put and cave to the "afk god"? I've lost count of how many times I've lost the optional on PoP - on characters that could've really used all the marks from the run, 'cause they're still getting their reputations to Tier 5 at least - because we had 2, one time even 3!, people going afk after killing the first group.
    And yet, higher than mine or not, they still get rewarded for doing nothing!
    On the other hand, people at level 20 that queue for any stf - like RIM, which is available for characters 10+(!!) - might get an AFK penalty for, simply put, not being able to keep up with much higher level players they get grouped with.
    How is that fair to anyone?​​
    There is a massive difference between complaining about someone being AFK in a situation that has zero impact on you and someone being AFK and causing your to fail a mission objective. I see nothing wrong with people being AFK in First Contact Day as it has zero impact on you. Its perfectly fair.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    a
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    They don't get the same reward, they get a much higher and better reward. You by running around are the one getting the smaller reward.

    So what, should I just stay put and cave to the "afk god"? I've lost count of how many times I've lost the optional on PoP - on characters that could've really used all the marks from the run, 'cause they're still getting their reputations to Tier 5 at least - because we had 2, one time even 3!, people going afk after killing the first group.
    And yet, higher than mine or not, they still get rewarded for doing nothing!
    On the other hand, people at level 20 that queue for any stf - like RIM, which is available for characters 10+(!!) - might get an AFK penalty for, simply put, not being able to keep up with much higher level players they get grouped with.
    How is that fair to anyone?​​
    There is a massive difference between complaining about someone being AFK in a situation that has zero impact on you and someone being AFK and causing your to fail a mission objective. I see nothing wrong with people being AFK in First Contact Day as it has zero impact on you. Its perfectly fair.
    Or it would, if the queues still had fail conditions.
  • kirstieinkirstiein Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    There are a lot of ppl who don't build a rocket in this event. I was just in one that I was the only one who wasn't afk. This is unacceptable! It is not okay that ppl who don't participate still get rewards. There should be an afk penalty if a player does not build a rocket.
    Helping people is my passion in life. If I see someone without a smile I try to give them mine. :)
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    @kirstiein Since your thread topic was already being discussed in this thread, I went ahead and merged it here. You might also find some useful advice here for your issue as well. :smile:
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  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    @seaofsorrows @pottsey5g again, the point is not that they are not taking anything away from me, the point is that they are getting rewarded for doing nothing. And stop with this business of hiding behind the "you can play how you want" card. There is an AFK penalty in place, so clearly going AFK is against the rules of the game. The fact that the usual "limits" doesn't work for the First Contact queue doesn't mean the rules have changed.
    This behaviour shows a feeling of entitlement that should have no place here. I know we are all humans, and because of that we're not perfect and feeling entitled is almost a must these days, but there should be limits.
    The game already have enough problems without people thinking they deserve to be rewarded simply for logging in and/or queueing for something.

    More in general, though, I used this as the last of many examples. I was kinda shocked when I went and found myself with four other people - except the one that got one part, probably for fear of not getting the token if they didn't - that I thought to bring it here.
    It was not meant to be anything more than example. If people thinks that stooping so low as to go AFK for something so simple as this queue is ok, then what's stopping them for doing it during a regular, much harder, one?
    And with the Random System in place, they can potentially get a lot of reward for queueing, shooting something just to get hull damage recorded, then fly away or simply let themselves be destroyed and respawn just before the end.
    The problem of AFKers does exist and it's becoming a pain in the TRIBBLE to work with. Not everyone can go in with a full premade group - whether it's trhough a private queue or not is irrelevant. Not everyone likes to do it, either.
    And while pugging always have the chances of grouping you with someone that doesn't know what to do/perform poorly/is still leveling/gearing/whatever, those are different kind of problems that should not be addressed in this thread.
    And believe me: I'd much prefer having to explain on the fly or working around someone pulling barely no DPS than having to work against AFKers.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    The AFK penalty on other queues is triggered for failing to do X amount of damage. First Contact Day does not have any requirement to deal damage, so an AFK penalty cannot be implemented on it. Also, the point behind the typical AFK penalty is to discourage players from not participating in a TEAMED event, where everyone's efforts helps the ground succeed/fail as a TEAM. In those situations, someone refusing to participate can have a negative impact on the other players' rewards. In First Contact Day, it's all individual performance. Someone else's failure to participate does not prevent you from getting your reward. It's best in this one instance to not worry about what some other player is or isn't doing.
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
    ----> Contact Customer Support <----
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    If people thinks that stooping so low as to go AFK for something so simple as this queue is ok, then what's stopping them for doing it during a regular, much harder, one?” ​​
    That’s not a problem. No one is stopping low by going AFK in this event. Just because they are going AFK in a solo event it does not mean they will be AFK when something involves team work.

    The problem is you seem to be lumping all AFK together and acting like all AFK is bad. Well it’s not, many forms of AFK are acceptable, good and at times beneficial to players. This event is made in a way so its more rewarding to be AFK as you get a higher reward for not taking part. As being AFK rewards the player better and does zero harm to anyone else there is nothing wrong with being AFK.

    It’s got nothing to do with a feeling of entitlement; it’s about doing something in the most fun or most rewarding way possible.

    While I agree AFkers can be a problem its not a blanket problem in that all AFKers are bad. There are times where its acceptable to be AFK.

    Post edited by pottsey5g on
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    People win the mission by doing nothing because Cryptic designed the mission to require doing nothing to win. They want Super Ultra Easy Mode Everyone Wins Every Time gameplay, so auto-win it is.

    If you don't like it, whine to Cryptic for all the good it'll do. It's not the players' fault just playing it like it is.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Is this rocket thing considered a TFO, now? LOL! Get out!?!? It is more solo stuff on a map with other people.

    I can't even put out the fire on someone else's rocket!!!! Though someone killed the spiders for me this morning. Didn't even see them chasing me!
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    @seaofsorrows @pottsey5g again, the point is not that they are not taking anything away from me, the point is that they are getting rewarded for doing nothing.

    Again, this has absolutely no effect on you at all.
    And stop with this business of hiding behind the "you can play how you want" card. There is an AFK penalty in place, so clearly going AFK is against the rules of the game.

    Unnecessarily hostile, no one is 'hiding' behind anything. The game has an AFK penalty to prevent players from leeching off others.. this is not happening here.
    The fact that the usual "limits" doesn't work for the First Contact queue doesn't mean the rules have changed.

    Of course it does.
    This behaviour shows a feeling of entitlement that should have no place here. I know we are all humans, and because of that we're not perfect and feeling entitled is almost a must these days, but there should be limits.

    You're calling others entitled? You're the one saying you're right, everyone else is wrong and you're the only one that deserves the rewards. I am not sure the word 'entitled' means what you think it means.

    The game already have enough problems without people thinking they deserve to be rewarded simply for logging in and/or queuing for something.

    Normally, I would be right there with you. I do not support AFK'ing queued events at all.. but this event is clearly different. AFK'ing is troublesome because players push the burden off onto their team, make the mission harder and then expect the same rewards. Clearly, that situtation does not apply here.. again, we're just talking about the 1st contact event here where an AFK player has absolutely no consequence of any type to the other 4 people. This is not a TFO mission, it's a single player mission with other people on the screen.
    I'd much prefer having to explain on the fly or working around someone pulling barely no DPS than having to work against AFKers.​​

    Again, in normal TFO missions.. 100% agreed. In this case though.. it absolutely doesn't matter, and getting upset about it is a waste of time and effort.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    AFK in First Contact Day doesn't matter as has already been demonstrated above. In addition to this, you should actually be thankful for anyone joining your First Contact pug since I'm pretty sure that you can't load it up solo. Therefore even the humble AFK player is helping you just by showing up. You literally couldn't even start it without other people joining.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Authoritarian jerk? Entitled? Boy, this forums just gets better everyday!

    If wanting people to be rewarded for what they do instead of for doing nothing makes me an authoritarian jerk, so be it.
    If wanting the game to be as fair to everyone as possible makes me entitled, so be it.
    But do yourselves a favour and look up the meaning of "meritocracy".

    Thank you all for this illuminating discussion.​​
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,165 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Authoritarian jerk? Entitled? Boy, this forums just gets better everyday!

    If wanting people to be rewarded for what they do instead of for doing nothing makes me an authoritarian jerk, so be it.
    If wanting the game to be as fair to everyone as possible makes me entitled, so be it.
    But do yourselves a favour and look up the meaning of "meritocracy".

    Thank you all for this illuminating discussion.​​
    You are the one that came in here all aggressive and called people who are doing absolutely nothing wrong as “stooping so low” so don’t be surprised at the response.

    This is a game; it’s about fun and people playing it in the most fun way possible. What you are complaining about with the recent event was neither unfair or have anything to do with being fair for everyone. Telling other people how they should play there own solo content is being Authoritarian. I will play my solo content how I find it most fun, not how you say I should play it and I am not stooping low just because you do not like how I play my solo content.

    So yes it is illuminating but it says more about you then us.

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    AFK in First Contact Day doesn't matter as has already been demonstrated above. In addition to this, you should actually be thankful for anyone joining your First Contact pug since I'm pretty sure that you can't load it up solo. Therefore even the humble AFK player is helping you just by showing up. You literally couldn't even start it without other people joining.
    Also, the more the other players in FCD don't do the more materials you have to build a rocket!
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Authoritarian jerk? Entitled? Boy, this forums just gets better everyday!

    If wanting people to be rewarded for what they do instead of for doing nothing makes me an authoritarian jerk, so be it.
    If wanting the game to be as fair to everyone as possible makes me entitled, so be it.
    But do yourselves a favour and look up the meaning of "meritocracy".

    Thank you all for this illuminating discussion.​​

    If you can't do content because somebody went AFK and this was a TRUE meritocracy, you would get next to no rewards. And neither would the vast majority of this player base when they get grouped with anyone who does not suck at games. And compared to the top 1% who are actually really good at this game...yeah pretty much NOBODY else would be getting any rewards. A meritocracy does not reward EFFORT, it rewards RESULTS. And yeah, a meritocracy in this game with this player base where a bad player is doing 1/500th what a good player does and the average player is doing 1/10th what an okay player does and a meritocracy would mean you would pretty much get nothing unless you push your DPS. And that is a BAD thing for this game full of casuals who are more into trek than games.
    Yeah, the forum whiners would blow a gasket at the very thought of actually having to WIN the rocket contest to get the event token.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    Authoritarian jerk? Entitled? Boy, this forums just gets better everyday!

    If wanting people to be rewarded for what they do instead of for doing nothing makes me an authoritarian jerk, so be it.
    If wanting the game to be as fair to everyone as possible makes me entitled, so be it.
    But do yourselves a favour and look up the meaning of "meritocracy".

    Thank you all for this illuminating discussion.​​
    The issue is not you. The issue is STO.

    Any form of "progression" is not seen as "valuable". It's often derided as a "crutch" because it is "unnecessary".

    -Tier 6 Ships: Unnecessary
    -Tier 5-U Ships: Unnecessary
    -Fleet Ships ([T6] or [T5-U]): Unnecessary
    -Starship Mastery Traits: Unnecessary
    -Space Reputation Traits: Unnecessary
    -Ground Reputation Traits: Unnecessary
    -Personal Ground Traits: Unnecessary
    -Personal Space Traits: Unnecessary
    -Unlock Extra Trait Slots: Extra Unnecessary
    -Reputation Powers: Unnecessary
    -Reputation Gear: Unnecessary
    -Fleet Gear: Unnecessary
    -Featured Episode Gear: Unnecessary
    _Lockbox Gear: Unnecessary
    -Space Gear Set Bonuses: Unnecessary
    -Ground Gear Set Bonuses: Unnecessary
    -Very Rare (Pink), Ultra Rare (Purple), Epic (Gold) Quality Gear: Unnecessary
    -Mark XII, Mark XIV, Mark XV Level Gear: Unnecessary
    -Equip Space Duty Officers: Unnecessary
    -Equip Ground Duty Officers: Unnecessary

    So, all you need to complete any content in STO, is any T5 Ship and all Mark XII Rare (Blue) equipment for space and ground. Why? Why hasn't Cryptic made any difficult content since 2014?

    Because challenging content causes inefficiency when collecting resources. The content itself is immaterial. No one cares if it is fun or engaging. Do it as fast as possible for the rewards.

    So, you have this bizarre situation where players do not want "progress"; they want "rewards". The best time vs rewards ratio comes from doing content with as little engagement as possible. This is the mentality of most STO players and why you are "behind the curve" in terms of your thought processes.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    So, all you need to complete any content in STO, is any T5 Ship and all Mark XII Rare (Blue) equipment for space and ground. Why? Why hasn't Cryptic made any difficult content since 2014?

    Because challenging content causes inefficiency when collecting resources. The content itself is immaterial. No one cares if it is fun or engaging. Do it as fast as possible for the rewards.

    So, you have this bizarre situation where players do not want "progress"; they want "rewards". The best time vs rewards ratio comes from doing content with as little engagement as possible. This is the mentality of most STO players and why you are "behind the curve" in terms of your thought processes.
    Actually, I'd say it's the exact opposite. Cryptic produces this perpetual Easy Mode content with the expectation that players will want to play it just for laughs. Because they give absolutely no reason to play most of the content at all otherwise.

    For example, they've started running these constant daily-token events that ostensibly involve playing new (or "new") content, but actually only require you to queue up and wait for the automatic win timer to tick down to zero. It's like a login bonus with a time delay. So what's the point of the content? Why not just put in an empty map for players to wait their 15 minutes in? They must expect players to want to play the content anyway, even though it doesn't reward anything that they couldn't get by waiting.

    Of course everyone wants rewards. It's the developers' responsibility to make players earn them. But Cryptic doesn't. They produce content that gives away all the stuff for free and actually doing anything is optional, so obviously they're going to attract players who like to just collect stuff for free.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Forcing you to earn the items provided as rewards and forcing you to play the game are not the same thing.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
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