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The Borg VS the Galatic Empire who would Win and Way

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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,713 Arc User
    kaloriaa4 wrote: »
    1. Borg adapts to energy weapons.
    4. Borgs can use Transwarp conduits.
    5. Borgs can drain shields.

    Depends on the physics in the Star Wars universe whether the Borg are able to do any of these things. Transwarp conduits might not be possible in the Star Wars universe and the Borg would have to learn how to adapt to Empire energy weapons and shields before they could adapt to energy weapons and drain shields.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,567 Arc User
    The Borg
    starswordc wrote: »
    Also, while assimilating a TIE pilot might not give useful info, that's not true of ALL Imperial personnel. Oh and the Borg can steal computer databases too. So, if they do assimilate a Star Destroyer, they know have the entire database from it's computer.

    I'm guessing your retort is to say the Imperials would wipe the computer if they thought they'd lose the ship. Problem with that is the Imperials aren't going to know for sure until it's too late.
    There's this little thing called "need to know" with classified information. It boils down to Ben Franklin's line about how three can keep a secret if two of them are dead: the fewer people who know a secret, the less the chance of it getting out. Every star destroyer isn't going to have the location of major classified installations in its computer. In fact I'd be surprised if any ship not assigned to the installation's support fleet has it.
    Heh, even if they don't have the coordinates of Starkiller base they DO have: fleet movements of dozens or hundreds of ships, Imperial navigation charts, and most crucially, a list of places ship captains are told to say out of.

    Would it be enough for a positive ID? probably not, but it'd greatly narrow the search area.
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  • kaloriaa4kaloriaa4 Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    The Borg
    starkaos wrote: »
    kaloriaa4 wrote: »
    1. Borg adapts to energy weapons.
    4. Borgs can use Transwarp conduits.
    5. Borgs can drain shields.

    Depends on the physics in the Star Wars universe whether the Borg are able to do any of these things. Transwarp conduits might not be possible in the Star Wars universe and the Borg would have to learn how to adapt to Empire energy weapons and shields before they could adapt to energy weapons and drain shields.

    Regardless the borgs main goal is to assimilate people into the collective. All races all nations everyone. If left unchecked the borg can take over a galaxy. They won't one stop till they are the prime ruler of the universe. Which make the borg that dangerous. One borg drone was enough to half way assimilate and entire ship of Enterprise E in first contact. One turns into two then 4 then 8. left unchecked the whole ship becomes borg drones.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,724 Arc User
    The Borg
    The only chance the Empire has imho is if it's only a single cube, first contact involves the Death Star, and they fire the superlaser as soon as the borg appear. Otherwise, before they realize the threat the cube poses to them the Borg would have already beamed a few drones aboard and started taking control of the computer systems and assimilating crew members.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 47,434 Arc User
    kaloriaa4 wrote: »
    Regardless the borgs main goal is to assimilate people into the collective. All races all nations everyone. If left unchecked the borg can take over a galaxy. They won't one stop till they are the prime ruler of the universe. Which make the borg that dangerous. One borg drone was enough to half way assimilate and entire ship of Enterprise E in first contact. One turns into two then 4 then 8. left unchecked the whole ship becomes borg drones.

    The Borg don't even want the Kazon though.

    And I don't think it was a single drone. I think it was the Queen and a small group.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    The Borg
    The only chance the Empire has imho is if it's only a single cube, first contact involves the Death Star, and they fire the superlaser as soon as the borg appear. Otherwise, before they realize the threat the cube poses to them the Borg would have already beamed a few drones aboard and started taking control of the computer systems and assimilating crew members.
    Lasers based weapons don’t harm Star Trek ships even when shields are down. I don’t see why the Borg would be bothered by the superlaser. Even the Enterprise can shrug lasers off without shields. In Star Trek lasers are deflected away ship and are harmless.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 30,982 Arc User
    edited April 7
    not this TRIBBLE again...it's 20-forking-19!

    STAR WARS LASERS ARE NOT LASERS! THEY ARE PARTICLE WEAPONS!​​
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    edited April 7
    The Borg
    not this TRIBBLE again...it's 20-forking-19!

    STAR WARS LASERS ARE NOT LASERS! THEY ARE PARTICLE WEAPONS!​​
    Then they couldn't hit the Borg cube anyway due to the slow speed and short range. Either way we end up in the same situation where the Star Wars weapons cannot hit and hurt the Borg. Sublight weapons are no threat and short range wont work either as it his to be longer then the transporter range.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,289 Arc User
    I think it's kinda pointless to speculate what tech might or might not work in the respective universes. Saying something doesn't work because it's a different universe is always giving that side a home advantage and basically settles what is going to happen already.

    Transwarp Gates will work in the Star Wars Universe. Hyperspace Drives will work in the Star Trek Universe.
    If Superlasers can destroy planets, we have to assume they can do so in both universes.
    If the Borg can adapt to energy weapons, we have to assume they can do so in both universes.

    The Borg never seem to use any telepathic or telekinetic abilities, even though they should logically have assimilated species that have such abilities. Why they don't do so is unknown, but if they don't in the Star Trek Universe, they won't use force powers in the Star Wars universe either.

    The only type of tech that the Bor couldn't adapt against, and the only type of species they couldn't adapt to were Species 8472. So we have o assume they could even assimilate people like Vader or Palpatine - provided they could somehow get them into a situation where they can't outrun and outmaneuver the drones which might be hard.

    So open questions would be for example:
    We've never seen Borg adapt to melee attacks, but they aren't often subjected to it. Light Sabers could fall either in the melee category or energy weapon category, so maybe they can, or they can't adapt to them.

    Can the Borg even adapt to the firepower of a Death Star or Starkiller Base? I would actually guess on that they can. Maybe not fast enough to protect their Unimatraxes, though, it takes the Borg a few hits and losses before they adapt to something.

    Star Wars ships definitely are really fast at FTL, so the Empire could always retreat from the Borg, and they can also always outmaneuver them. That might not matter anymore however when the Borg adapt to Blaster Weapons, Turbolasers and Proton Torpedoes.

    The Wild Cards, as always, are "heroic" characters. They might figure out a trick to surprise the Borg. Maybe the same trick Picard used to identify the weak spot on the Cube in First Contact could be replicated with force based telepathic or force premonitions.

    Narratively, the Borg were intended as an unstoppable force that the heroes needed to outwit to escape, but they could never really beat. The Empire was intended as something that looked unbeatable, but could be toppled over.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    edited April 7
    The Borg
    I think it's kinda pointless to speculate what tech might or might not work in the respective universes. Saying something doesn't work because it's a different universe is always giving that side a home advantage and basically settles what is going to happen already.

    Transwarp Gates will work in the Star Wars Universe. Hyperspace Drives will work in the Star Trek Universe.
    If Superlasers can destroy planets, we have to assume they can do so in both universes.
    If the Borg can adapt to energy weapons, we have to assume they can do so in both universes.

    The Borg never seem to use any telepathic or telekinetic abilities, even though they should logically have assimilated species that have such abilities. Why they don't do so is unknown, but if they don't in the Star Trek Universe, they won't use force powers in the Star Wars universe either.

    The only type of tech that the Bor couldn't adapt against, and the only type of species they couldn't adapt to were Species 8472. So we have o assume they could even assimilate people like Vader or Palpatine - provided they could somehow get them into a situation where they can't outrun and outmaneuver the drones which might be hard.

    So open questions would be for example:
    We've never seen Borg adapt to melee attacks, but they aren't often subjected to it. Light Sabers could fall either in the melee category or energy weapon category, so maybe they can, or they can't adapt to them.

    Can the Borg even adapt to the firepower of a Death Star or Starkiller Base? I would actually guess on that they can. Maybe not fast enough to protect their Unimatraxes, though, it takes the Borg a few hits and losses before they adapt to something.

    Star Wars ships definitely are really fast at FTL, so the Empire could always retreat from the Borg, and they can also always outmaneuver them. That might not matter anymore however when the Borg adapt to Blaster Weapons, Turbolasers and Proton Torpedoes.

    The Wild Cards, as always, are "heroic" characters. They might figure out a trick to surprise the Borg. Maybe the same trick Picard used to identify the weak spot on the Cube in First Contact could be replicated with force based telepathic or force premonitions.

    Narratively, the Borg were intended as an unstoppable force that the heroes needed to outwit to escape, but they could never really beat. The Empire was intended as something that looked unbeatable, but could be toppled over.
    First off I have not watched every single bit of Star Wars and some of it was a long time ago. So correct me if I am wrong. But my understanding of hyperdrive is that is can only go down prepathed nodes. While it is faster it is not flexible like warp/transwarp drive. Hyperdrive is like a train track is can only go on those tracks and so cannot outmanoeuvre the Borg as the Borg can go FTL away from the track and outmanoeuvre hyperdrive.

    Once the Borg assimilate one single person with the right information or ship they know gravity wells disable Hyperdrive and gravity wells do not disable the Borg FTL. So all the Borg need to do is produce gravity wells to stop the Star Wars ships escaping. One single Gravimetric torpedo travelling at warp speed will do the job.

    Going by Star Trek TNG the Borg will not just fly straight into the stronghold middle of the Empire. They will start at the fringe and pick away at outskirts colonies and trade ships to assimilate and get a base idea of what they are facing and build up numbers.

    Also I have never seen Star Wars ships use weapons at long range against moving ships or use weapons at above FTL speeds. As Star Trek Ships can do both they can just fight at range flying in circles at FTL and be immune to all incoming Star Wars firepower while disabling the Star Wars ships FTL.


  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,724 Arc User
    edited April 7
    The Borg
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Lasers based weapons don’t harm Star Trek ships even when shields are down.
    "Laser" weapons in Star Wars are not actually lasers, they actually fire plasma generated from tibanna gas. Regardless though, if a weapon is outputting enough energy to violently and instantaneously destroy a planet then I highly doubt any ship would be able to withstand it, even if standard turbolasers have no effect.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    edited April 7
    The Borg
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Lasers based weapons don’t harm Star Trek ships even when shields are down.
    "Laser" weapons in Star Wars are not actually lasers, they actually fire plasma generated from tibanna gas. Regardless though, if a weapon is outputting enough energy to violently and instantaneously destroy a planet then I highly doubt any ship would be able to withstand it, even if standard turbolasers have no effect.
    Even if the Borg cannot adapt against those weapons which believe they could do the main problem is those weapons are not able to get into range, track and hit the Borg ship in the first place so the Borg do not even need to adapt against them. Plus those Star Wars weapons pale in comparison against the more powerful weapons the Borg have access to. I just do not see given the primitive state of Star Wars technology how they could defend against a Borg Attack.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,567 Arc User
    The Borg
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    First off I have not watched every single bit of Star Wars and some of it was a long time ago. So correct me if I am wrong. But my understanding of hyperdrive is that is can only go down prepathed nodes. While it is faster it is not flexible like warp/transwarp drive. Hyperdrive is like a train track is can only go on those tracks and so cannot outmanoeuvre the Borg as the Borg can go FTL away from the track and outmanoeuvre hyperdrive.
    It's not that they can't do it, it's that it's a known safe route. Like with the gravity well thing. If you plot a risky course you might get forced out of Hyperdrive in a dangerous location and get wrecked. It's part of why they use unmanned probes for scouting.

    Which is an advantage for the Borg as they can use manned Probe ships to scout that are fully capable of infecting any soft targets they encounter.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    The Borg
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    First off I have not watched every single bit of Star Wars and some of it was a long time ago. So correct me if I am wrong. But my understanding of hyperdrive is that is can only go down prepathed nodes. While it is faster it is not flexible like warp/transwarp drive. Hyperdrive is like a train track is can only go on those tracks and so cannot outmanoeuvre the Borg as the Borg can go FTL away from the track and outmanoeuvre hyperdrive.
    It's not that they can't do it, it's that it's a known safe route. Like with the gravity well thing. If you plot a risky course you might get forced out of Hyperdrive in a dangerous location and get wrecked. It's part of why they use unmanned probes for scouting.

    Which is an advantage for the Borg as they can use manned Probe ships to scout that are fully capable of infecting any soft targets they encounter.
    Do the probes return to ships? I assume the Borg could capture some, infiltrate and send them back?
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,724 Arc User
    The Borg
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Lasers based weapons don’t harm Star Trek ships even when shields are down.
    "Laser" weapons in Star Wars are not actually lasers, they actually fire plasma generated from tibanna gas. Regardless though, if a weapon is outputting enough energy to violently and instantaneously destroy a planet then I highly doubt any ship would be able to withstand it, even if standard turbolasers have no effect.
    Even if the Borg cannot adapt against those weapons which believe they could do
    They must likely would adapt, but my first post on the topic was that the Empire's only chance was if there was only one Borg ship involved, first contact involved the Death Star, and they fired the superlaser as soon as the Borg appeared (which is very unlikely anyway). In such a situation adaptation wouldn't play a role because only one shot would be fired, while any other sequence of events would result in the assimilation of all imperial forces.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,567 Arc User
    The Borg
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    First off I have not watched every single bit of Star Wars and some of it was a long time ago. So correct me if I am wrong. But my understanding of hyperdrive is that is can only go down prepathed nodes. While it is faster it is not flexible like warp/transwarp drive. Hyperdrive is like a train track is can only go on those tracks and so cannot outmanoeuvre the Borg as the Borg can go FTL away from the track and outmanoeuvre hyperdrive.
    It's not that they can't do it, it's that it's a known safe route. Like with the gravity well thing. If you plot a risky course you might get forced out of Hyperdrive in a dangerous location and get wrecked. It's part of why they use unmanned probes for scouting.

    Which is an advantage for the Borg as they can use manned Probe ships to scout that are fully capable of infecting any soft targets they encounter.
    Do the probes return to ships? I assume the Borg could capture some, infiltrate and send them back?
    I think they mainly transmit telemetry data. They might have a refueling protocol that causes them to return home though.
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Lasers based weapons don’t harm Star Trek ships even when shields are down.
    "Laser" weapons in Star Wars are not actually lasers, they actually fire plasma generated from tibanna gas. Regardless though, if a weapon is outputting enough energy to violently and instantaneously destroy a planet then I highly doubt any ship would be able to withstand it, even if standard turbolasers have no effect.
    Even if the Borg cannot adapt against those weapons which believe they could do
    They must likely would adapt, but my first post on the topic was that the Empire's only chance was if there was only one Borg ship involved, first contact involved the Death Star, and they fired the superlaser as soon as the Borg appeared (which is very unlikely anyway). In such a situation adaptation wouldn't play a role because only one shot would be fired, while any other sequence of events would result in the assimilation of all imperial forces.
    Voyager made a point with the Undine to show that Undine cube busters worked by brute force. The Borg managed to defend, but it was mainly a matter of increasing the number of shots it took before their shields failed.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 47,434 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Do the probes return to ships? I assume the Borg could capture some, infiltrate and send them back?

    The Collective nature of the Borg means they don't have to bring things back that they assimilate. The Knowledge gained through assimilation is instantly spread to the rest of the Borg unless something isolates the assimilator, like in STO how the damaged Cube couldn't send the information on how to assimilate the Undine back to the Collective.

    While we have seen one instance of the Borg using stealth infiltration tactics (Enterprise episode Regeneration) I don't think they use it often. The Borg seem to favor the direct approach.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    edited April 7
    The Borg
    rattler2 wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Do the probes return to ships? I assume the Borg could capture some, infiltrate and send them back?

    The Collective nature of the Borg means they don't have to bring things back that they assimilate. The Knowledge gained through assimilation is instantly spread to the rest of the Borg unless something isolates the assimilator, like in STO how the damaged Cube couldn't send the information on how to assimilate the Undine back to the Collective.

    While we have seen one instance of the Borg using stealth infiltration tactics (Enterprise episode Regeneration) I don't think they use it often. The Borg seem to favor the direct approach.
    I mean the probes the Star Wars Ships send out. My thinking was the Borg capture the Star Wars probes, assimilate it and send it back to the Star War main ship then once it docks assimilate that ship from inside.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,643 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Do the probes return to ships? I assume the Borg could capture some, infiltrate and send them back?

    The Collective nature of the Borg means they don't have to bring things back that they assimilate. The Knowledge gained through assimilation is instantly spread to the rest of the Borg unless something isolates the assimilator, like in STO how the damaged Cube couldn't send the information on how to assimilate the Undine back to the Collective.

    While we have seen one instance of the Borg using stealth infiltration tactics (Enterprise episode Regeneration) I don't think they use it often. The Borg seem to favor the direct approach.
    I mean the probes the Star Wars Ships send out. My thinking was the Borg capture the Star Wars probes, assimilate it and send it back to the Star War main ship then once it docks assimilate that ship from inside.
    Which the Borg has done anything similar to... when?

    Subtlety isn't the Borg Collective's strong suit. Its standard tactic is to fly in a straight line directly to the target, ignoring anything that isn't an immediate threat, and then unloading infantry drones onto or into it, which then advance to melee range in a skirmish line like zombified redcoats. This is how they have behaved in every military encounter with them since their introduction. It's only when they're under immediate threat of complete destruction that their tactics change one iota.

    Up-page you also assume the fallacy that they're perpetual motion machines, that their demonstrated ability to adapt their defenses against incoming fire is infinite. This is first off impossible, and secondly disproven by First Contact and "Scorpion": the First Contact cube was already on the verge of shield failure by the time the Enterprise joined the battle, and the Undine possess Death Star-level firepower that blows away targeted cubes by brute force.
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  • qqqqiiqqqqii Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    Goku.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    The Borg
    starswordc wrote: »
    Up-page you also assume the fallacy that they're perpetual motion machines, that their demonstrated ability to adapt their defenses against incoming fire is infinite.
    You misunderstand they don't need to adapt. They can fight at ranges and speeds that are well outside the Star Wars ships ability to hit.

    As for First Contact that doesn't disprove anything as that was after the Federation had years of experience and tech to get around the Borg adaption and it still took an entire fleet including ships designed as anti Borg ships. What would happen with a Star Wars fleet is more like what happened at the Battle of Wolf 359. The cube walked though an entire fleet without any noticeable damage. It didn't matter how much damage they throw at the Borg as the weapons had no anti Borg tech incorporated into them so the Borg just shrugged them off. I see no reason why a Star Wars fleet wouldn't run into the same problem as the Federation had at the battle of Wolf 359. That battle was also with the Federation having years of notice to get ready and pre knowledge about the Borg. Would the Star Wars Empire have that same pre knowledge and time to get ready?

    Although we don't directly see the Borg use many methods its heavily implied they are highly adaptable to situations and there is talk in Star Trek about the different methods they use and have used even when we do not directly see those methods. For example we never sew them blow up an entire solar system but its talked about that they have that ability and have used it before when they need a different battle method.

    The Borg are not stupid they are not limited to just zombie rush.

    "This is how they have behaved in every military encounter with them since their introduction."
    That's not how I remember it the Borg didn't just fly in a straight line directly to the target, ignoring anything that isn't an immediate threat. When the Borg first got to Federation space they used subtlety to infiltrated and probe the edge of Federation space while remaining hidden. They gathered data, assimilated tech. For a long time the Federation wasn't even sure it was the Borg because the Borg didn't just fly in a straight line they used subtlety.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,567 Arc User
    The Borg
    Yeah in Regeneration the Borg took the approach of assimilating everything in sight, then looking for more things.

    And yeah, they seem to like to win wars by attrition. Take out enemy planets one at a time and use the populations to assimilate even more planets.
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 30,982 Arc User
    and anyone saying the borg have tunnel vision when it comes to operation needs to rewatch whatever episode introduced the brunali, because they made it clear in that episode the borg are essentially 'farming' them by just assimilating a small portion of the population every so often rather than assimilating the entire species at once​​
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 47,434 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    For a long time the Federation wasn't even sure it was the Borg because the Borg didn't just fly in a straight line they used subtlety.

    However after that they went straight for Earth. Even bypassing Mars, which had a MAJOR Federation facility. And again in First Contact, the cube goes straight for Earth.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,567 Arc User
    The Borg
    rattler2 wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    For a long time the Federation wasn't even sure it was the Borg because the Borg didn't just fly in a straight line they used subtlety.
    However after that they went straight for Earth. Even bypassing Mars, which had a MAJOR Federation facility. And again in First Contact, the cube goes straight for Earth.
    Was that their ONLY target or one of many? I'd suggest that it's one of many. Remember Picard's motivational speech when the Ent-E is being over-run by the Borg boarding party? "They assimilate whole worlds, and we fall back!! NO! I say it ends! Right here! Right now!" This suggests the battle in First contact was a part of a larger conflict we didn't see on screen.
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,393 Arc User
    The Borg
    I really hate how these threads go. Have seen so many ST vs SW threads over too many years dating right back to the very first iteration of the Star Trek.com forum and chatroom.

    Though I will at least note that this thread hasn't lowered itself to level of quoting how uber-powerful and unstoppable the (absurdly named and now irrelevant due to new canon rules) turbolasers are.
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 30,982 Arc User
    they're as uber-powerful as ANY particle weapon that can vaporize an entire good-sized asteroid with a single shot - of course, without knowing what the asteroids in the hoth field are actually MADE of, the general power of a single bolt could still vary wildly​​
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,745 Arc User
    The Borg
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I really hate how these threads go. Have seen so many ST vs SW threads over too many years dating right back to the very first iteration of the Star Trek.com forum and chatroom.

    Though I will at least note that this thread hasn't lowered itself to level of quoting how uber-powerful and unstoppable the (absurdly named and now irrelevant due to new canon rules) turbolasers are.
    That 2nd paragraph is a good example of a conclusion I came to in a different forum. Part of the problem is technology is so inconsistence both in SW and ST it’s not really possible to do a reasonable comparison without making large assumptions that can be interrupted differently.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 47,434 Arc User
    The only thing that can accurately be compared really is tactics.

    Star Wars tactics typically involve ye olde broadsides with fighters darting around. Basically its a contest of who has the better weapons and armor. Their ships are generally slow with low maneuverability.

    Star Trek on the other hand, is more of a combination of knife fight and submarine warfare, where the ships are actually fast and maneuverable enough to try and gain an advantage over each other. While we really don't see that in practice until the Dominion War (at least in terms of seeing it on screen), it is how combat in the games and books were mostly dipicted. After DS9, space combat in Star Trek has been depicted as ships maneuvering against each other in an attempt to gain an advantage.

    Now... if we pit say a Sovereign class Starship against an Imperial-II Star Destroyer, maneuverability comes into play, meaning advantage Sovy. The ISD mitigates this with the overall design of the ship and turreted turbolasers. However this only applies to the forward arc really. Broadsides still only use half the weapons they can use forward, and based on the design, an ISD has virturally squat for rear weapons.

    Another factor to consider is the style of weapons. The ISD's turbolasers are bolt firing plasma weapons, whereas the Sovy's phasers are beam based. For warheads, the ISD most likely has a supply of Proton Torpedos and Concussion Missiles. The Sovy's got Photon Torpedos and Quantum Torpedos. If we use the X-Wing series of games as a reference, Proton Torpedos are more useful in taking out capital ships than Concs. However the yield isn't devastating. A Photon Torpedo, on the other hand, can have a variable yield, and in some circumstances has been a powerful finisher. Now back to the energy weapons, the turbolasers may not be able to track fast enough to get a bead on the Sovy, so they would probably have to rely on the "wall of lead" strategy to land a hit. Meanwhile the Sovy can fire a sustained beam that could potentially carve up the ISD like a turkey, especially focusing on vital systems like the overly exposed shield generators and the large ion engines. And the Sovy is maneuverable enough to stay in the ISD's "blind spot".

    Note I was not using any Hero ships like the USS Enterprise-E or Vader's ISD from A New Hope. This was random generic ISD vs random generic Sovy.

    Overall... matching up two franchises that have two drastically different fighting doctrines is difficult without really getting into the fanboy fights. Then again even if two franchises have similar fighting doctrines, like if we were to compare Star Wars to say Wing Commander or Battlestar Galactica, we would still kinda flirt with those who feel one is superior to the other and therefor always wins by default because fangasm.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,289 Arc User
    Note that the "overly exposed shield generators" might actually not be shield generators at all, but sensor domes. The dialog regarding the shields and the domes on the bridge might have bee misunderstood. Of course, it was common in secondary material to refer to them as shield domes.

    And of course, there are background sources that state that Imperial Star Destroyers have 60 Turbolasers and 60 Ion Cannons, but these are not visible on the actual ship model, and it looks more like it might have something like 8 huge turrets and multiple other smaller guns.

    The Galaxy Class supposedly has 12 beam arrays, and while we rarely (if ever) see it fire them all, we can see that there are a sufficient amount of beam arrays on the model, going by the look established for them. (Though I think one of the 12 beam arrays is only visible when it's saucer is seperated. I am not sure if one can recognize the 3rd photon torpedo launcher)

    I don't think we ever see any Star Wars Capital ships fire torpedoes or missiles, though secondary sources and games occasionally did give them that capability.

    And regarding on-screen evidence on firepower - even though Star Trek usually completely undersells the destructive capabilities of antimatter torpedoes, it seems it is kinda reasonably consistent here. Even the TOS Enterprise is stated as capable of devastating a planet (and DSC actually shows us how that might be possible, though in the scene I am thinking of it's the Charon eventually firing on the planet, not the Shenzou. It is just using torpedoes, however, so it shouldn't need any special weaponry for that). We've seen the Enterprise D drill holes with high precision into a planet, and the TOS Enterprise did stun people from space. This is an interesting mixture of flexibility, control and firepower in one.

    We have seen Romulan and Cardassian fleets obliterating a planetary surface down to its crust within minutes of firing. If that was possible for regular Star Destroyer fleets, I kinda feel the Death Star would be superfluous. But - maybe it was. It might have been more a matter of prestige and intimidation to create a weapon like that, not practicality.

    We never actually see a Star Destroyer make any orbital bombardments, except by that First Order Dreadnought that had special guns used for that purpose. Now it might be that on Hoth the Star Destroyers would have bombarded the planet, but they were disabled by the Ion Cannons before they could do so, and the planet had shields.
    Hoth also shows us that it is possible to circumvent Star Wars shields - at least those meant for planetary protection - by sending ground troops to disable them. Of course, there is a possibility that this was due to the nature of the Hoth basis - it wasn't a planet that might be completely shielded. But we don't actually hear about planet-encompassing shields in Star Wars, that's a concept from Spaceballs.

    We also know the Borg are capable of lifting off the surface of a planet with presumably their tractor beams. I don't think we've seen a comparable feat in Star wars, but then there was also never really a need to do so for anyone. The Borg might be the only ones crazy like that.

    I guess one of the best "conventional" defenses against the Borg might be a Storm Trooper army equipped with suicide capsules (poison or bomb?) and blades. Once the blasters stop working, engage the Borg in melee, and use the suicide capsules to ensure that anyone caught by a Borg assimilated tube dies in ways that make the body unusable. It would be costly, but if the Borg can't assimilate your troops, the sheer size of the population in the Empire might be able to just swarm over the Borg. Of course, there is one practical problem - getting enough people drafted in time and equip them with those suicide capsules (everything else is pretty much optional, but you must make sure your soldiers aren't turned against you). The Borg method of "drafting" seems a lot faster

    I think the Empire methods and the methods of the Imperium of Man might be similar here - once a planet has reported a Borg (Chaos/Tyranid) presence, they will blow the planet up as quickly as they possible can. If they catch them early, the Borg presence will likely be too weak to provide a defense against a Death Star Laser or Star Killer Base, even if the Collective has "adapted" to the attack.
    Even with Transwarp the Borg might still be slower than the imperial ships, so there is a chance they could isolate the Borg in a death zone. Of course, the Borg don't need planets to spread, so ... Difficult.
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