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First impression: Peril over Pahvo

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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,545 Arc User
    edited March 23
    The other, perhaps less excusable issue: heal immunity. There is zero justification for this nonsense, seeing as it removes an avenue for players to contribute outside of firepower. Consider by way of contrast Counterpoint and Cure Found (and Kobayashi Maru) wherein something like the Lukari protomatter field console gets to shine... in that vein I would present the following solution for Dranuur Gauntlet and this copy-paste thereof:
    Every single MMORPG I have played that has an objective to prevent something from falling below X hp has it to where you either cannot heal it at all, or healing it doesn't actually change the fact it fell below that threshold.

    Which doesn't mean that -every- defense target should not be healable, such that you could throw this out as a valid example for why folks here shouldn't complain about Dranuur/Pahvo Gauntlet (the fools, how could gaming be otherwise?) Take for example: the Kobayashi Maru. Some defense objectives in MMO's/gaming can be healed or revived, others cannot. There are multiple strategies and the existence or even prevalence of one (to give your argument the best possible chance) doesn't invalidate the other's application in specific contexts (or requests for that.)

    I liked Peril over Pahvo. I play Dranuur Gauntlet a lot, this one is more or less the same thing, but nice and easy. No Iconians camping on the respawn point here. I'd recommend Peril over Pahvo for players with little experience with TFOs, it's straightforward and has both interaction (satellites) and stuff to blow up. It's definitely not as much of a challenge as an Advanced Borg queue, or the original Dranuur, but it was nice entertainment.

    I think the variable respawn points are a good update, but the waves still feel a little too static. Eventually you still pick up the new pattern, the question becomes adding a few extra moves in and reacting to flanking. I'd like to see this concept applied to a multi-faction invasion scenario where randomized 3rd party spawns could inject a little more stochasticity into what's still a wee bit of a grind (by focused design in the original but now we're between the spawns as extended gauntlets and spawns per ordinary combat dynamics.)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • laughinxanlaughinxan Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    I liked Peril over Pahvo. I play Dranuur Gauntlet a lot, this one is more or less the same thing, but nice and easy. No Iconians camping on the respawn point here. I'd recommend Peril over Pahvo for players with little experience with TFOs, it's straightforward and has both interaction (satellites) and stuff to blow up. It's definitely not as much of a challenge as an Advanced Borg queue, or the original Dranuur, but it was nice entertainment.

    Speaking of the engineering upgrades to the satellites - I found I had to fly around the energy shields to attack the enemy, the shields were like walls between me and the Terrans, both impossible to fly through and impossible to shoot through. That was a small nuisance, but otherwise, a nice easy TFO.

    I literally one time got stuck by a barrier on one of my engineers the first time running on that engineer(it spawned such it was overlapped with my exact spot and I couldn't move). So you can get stuck by the cardboard barricade until the enemy npc's decide to shoot it. But it's certainly not impossible to shoot through. I saw the klingons blast through the barrier faster than they could shoot through one of my lesser-defended characters when I'm not doing a thing to survive anything.

    If the barrier isn't targetted or shot at it seems it lasts but other then that, I'm not very fond of the barrier upgrade at all. I'd rather 4 tactical satellites any day as it helps create a critical mass of firepower and especially the planet-side satellites as they act as a nice reserve for those enemies getting to close. I think ultimately though it's still how you yourself defend the shield generators. I had a science build protect a satellite single-handedly without any effort and I decided to give all the satellites science upgrades.

    I do agree with you though that peril over pahvo is a good tfo for newbies. It's much easier than the original dranuur(mostly because it's disco enemies and they don't tend to have much beyond tractor beams).


    It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of him. And when the truth is undeniable, you create your own. - Conrad - Spec ops the Line

    Every time I see a wannabe-pro-gamer, the tryhard, I'm instantly thinking of how they often think they are the heroes of supposedly hard games. How it's there words that make sense only to them, but in the end, they are the ones actually hurting and harming the challenging game industry. From defending obvious game-breakers, or demanding others use a mechanic that fundamentally removes challenge. Sorry dudes, your not helping. Your not even helping games become challenging or hard in a good way again.

    Games don't feel like games when you can't lose, and also don't feel the same if you can't win fairly either.
  • laughinxanlaughinxan Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    The other, perhaps less excusable issue: heal immunity. There is zero justification for this nonsense, seeing as it removes an avenue for players to contribute outside of firepower. Consider by way of contrast Counterpoint and Cure Found (and Kobayashi Maru) wherein something like the Lukari protomatter field console gets to shine... in that vein I would present the following solution for Dranuur Gauntlet and this copy-paste thereof:
    Every single MMORPG I have played that has an objective to prevent something from falling below X hp has it to where you either cannot heal it at all, or healing it doesn't actually change the fact it fell below that threshold.

    Which doesn't mean that -every- defense target should not be healable, such that you could throw this out as a valid example for why folks here shouldn't complain about Dranuur/Pahvo Gauntlet (the fools, how could gaming be otherwise?) Take for example: the Kobayashi Maru. Some defense objectives in MMO's/gaming can be healed or revived, others cannot. There are multiple strategies and the existence or even prevalence of one (to give your argument the best possible chance) doesn't invalidate the other's application in specific contexts (or requests for that.)

    I suspect that the devs had my kind of mindset in that, they didn't want people to rely entirely on healing(like the often do in some things) or waiting around for it when they designed this TFO. And while healing has it's uses I don't think it's very good to be over-dependent on it nor should games cater to that constantly. Not to mention by itself healing depends to much on enemy damage being to low. And my experience, when players can rely on healing to defend something in a game, they tend to eschew everything else.

    They want to encourage players to try to use other means of protecting the power stations which they obviously exist. Some damage will be taken but lets think about the sheer amount of damage we prevent by crowd controlling the klingons/terrans or blasting them quickly. Especially if both are used in spades and someone even uses threatening stance, it can be the difference between a station dropping down to 50% and a station staying above 80% throughout the run. Thats a lot of damage prevention.

    I like to think of that damage prevented as damage already healed.


    It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of him. And when the truth is undeniable, you create your own. - Conrad - Spec ops the Line

    Every time I see a wannabe-pro-gamer, the tryhard, I'm instantly thinking of how they often think they are the heroes of supposedly hard games. How it's there words that make sense only to them, but in the end, they are the ones actually hurting and harming the challenging game industry. From defending obvious game-breakers, or demanding others use a mechanic that fundamentally removes challenge. Sorry dudes, your not helping. Your not even helping games become challenging or hard in a good way again.

    Games don't feel like games when you can't lose, and also don't feel the same if you can't win fairly either.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,896 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    That's not even true of STO. You can heal all protected objectives...except the generators in Dranuur/Disco Gauntlet.
    Now this is totally false. The lack of ability to heal many objects you are supposed to defend has been a complaint in the game for a long while.
    warpangel wrote: »
    Games that have actual challenge don't need to artificially gimp players like that. Everyone just healing would get the team overwhelmed and wiped out. Not to mention the players would probably have to actually do something to win, instead of waiting for the enemy to get bored and leave.
    Except that isn't artificially gimping by any measure.

    And this is actual challenge. What you suggest would be removing ACTUAL challenge from the game, in this case, being able to heal something you have no reason to be able to heal, when the whole point is to prevent it from being damaged in the first place.
    Which doesn't mean that -every- defense target should not be healable, such that you could throw this out as a valid example for why folks here shouldn't complain about Dranuur/Pahvo Gauntlet (the fools, how could gaming be otherwise?) Take for example: the Kobayashi Maru. Some defense objectives in MMO's/gaming can be healed or revived, others cannot. There are multiple strategies and the existence or even prevalence of one (to give your argument the best possible chance) doesn't invalidate the other's application in specific contexts (or requests for that.)
    The only things that should be healable in such a manner are NPCs and quest objects in story missions, since story missions aren't supposed to be that difficult. TFOs, which are STO's dungeon equivalent, should be difficult in that manner.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,461 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    That's not even true of STO. You can heal all protected objectives...except the generators in Dranuur/Disco Gauntlet.
    Now this is totally false. The lack of ability to heal many objects you are supposed to defend has been a complaint in the game for a long while.
    Name them.
    warpangel wrote: »
    Games that have actual challenge don't need to artificially gimp players like that. Everyone just healing would get the team overwhelmed and wiped out. Not to mention the players would probably have to actually do something to win, instead of waiting for the enemy to get bored and leave.
    Except that isn't artificially gimping by any measure.

    And this is actual challenge. What you suggest would be removing ACTUAL challenge from the game, in this case, being able to heal something you have no reason to be able to heal, when the whole point is to prevent it from being damaged in the first place.
    I'm not "suggesting" anything. There was a time when I would've suggested making the mission fail if the gens blow, but like they'd ever do that.

    And it's not actual challenge. Actual challenge would be actually having to defend the generators, from an actually competent enemy, instead of having the mere option of playing (or not playing) laser tag for peanuts with the Wet Cardboard Armada while waiting for them to leave for Admiral Cardboard's dentist's appointment and your inevitable victory.
    Which doesn't mean that -every- defense target should not be healable, such that you could throw this out as a valid example for why folks here shouldn't complain about Dranuur/Pahvo Gauntlet (the fools, how could gaming be otherwise?) Take for example: the Kobayashi Maru. Some defense objectives in MMO's/gaming can be healed or revived, others cannot. There are multiple strategies and the existence or even prevalence of one (to give your argument the best possible chance) doesn't invalidate the other's application in specific contexts (or requests for that.)
    The only things that should be healable in such a manner are NPCs and quest objects in story missions, since story missions aren't supposed to be that difficult. TFOs, which are STO's dungeon equivalent, should be difficult in that manner.
    But they aren't.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,896 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    But they aren't.
    STO takes the alternate route some MMOs take by having them just go into a temp down state until either combat is over, or you resuscitate them. And equally viable solution.
    warpangel wrote: »
    I'm not "suggesting" anything. There was a time when I would've suggested making the mission fail if the gens blow, but like they'd ever do that.

    And it's not actual challenge. Actual challenge would be actually having to defend the generators, from an actually competent enemy, instead of having the mere option of playing (or not playing) laser tag for peanuts with the Wet Cardboard Armada while waiting for them to leave for Admiral Cardboard's dentist's appointment and your inevitable victory.
    Well, they probably will on Elite, since that is what elite is for.

    And if you don't defend them you lose out on most of the marks the TFO can reward, which defeats the point of playing the TFO in the first place. I can't image living with this kind of mindset where you "play" games simply to find ways to not play them.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,320 Arc User
    edited March 23
    I can agree that we should be able to heal the gens, though not with the idea that healing is as effective as damage or ccing (healing should be a last ditch effort when the other two are failing). In my opinion we should be able to heal the gens as healing them does not really affect the objective anymore then killing the enemies (we don't get points for how high the gen's hp is, jsut that they survive.), but that that the gens should have some form of healing reduction effect on them to make healing them just as effective as killing the enemies (right now not being able to heal the gens is like making the stf have a cap on damage output in place).

    Edit/additional: I would also say giving the gens some none regening shields, which we as players could heal, while keeping it that the hull-points of the gens are not healable would be fine too. It would allow that we could heal the gens via shield healing as a route other than ccing an damage, but keep it that the hull points being un-healable an make it that you need to use one of the other avenues as well.
    Post edited by asuran14 on
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    About the "no healing to make players find a different route do fulfill the mission objective":

    that would be a nice idea, if said route wasn't "okay guys, blow everything up as fast as you can."

    Which, in my experience, is a much more prevalent player strategy than "heal everything" in STO, no matter whether it is useful in the mission in the first place. Healing something/somebody else than yourself would be the alternative here. Or using engineering satellites and a few abilities to reduce damage - but then you'll still have to blow up everything, and its usefulness may be debatable as well.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • kaggert27kaggert27 Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    I'd like to add: NOT A FAN of it showing up in Random Queue/TFO like, oh 4 times in almost a row on one character. I took a Leaver Penalty to escape it at that point. Please for the sanity of me, and others, remove Pahvo "Gauntlet" from the Random Rotation. It's like having Romulan Minefield show up, pointless to consistently have people random queue for something that is either a dilithium or mark farm, and there is no cool down on said TFO either.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,461 Arc User
    edited March 23
    warpangel wrote: »
    I'm not "suggesting" anything. There was a time when I would've suggested making the mission fail if the gens blow, but like they'd ever do that.

    And it's not actual challenge. Actual challenge would be actually having to defend the generators, from an actually competent enemy, instead of having the mere option of playing (or not playing) laser tag for peanuts with the Wet Cardboard Armada while waiting for them to leave for Admiral Cardboard's dentist's appointment and your inevitable victory.
    Well, they probably will on Elite, since that is what elite is for.
    Which nobody will play, because it will reward nothing of interest over the auto-win Advanced version.
    And if you don't defend them you lose out on most of the marks the TFO can reward, which defeats the point of playing the TFO in the first place. I can't image living with this kind of mindset where you "play" games simply to find ways to not play them.
    The point of playing it is the event token. The 12:50 waiting time is more productively spent doing Admiralty than the peanut optionals. I'd just turn the peanuts into more dil anyway...if the toon I'm doing it with didn't already have over a month's backlog of refining quota.
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 782 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    But they aren't.
    STO takes the alternate route some MMOs take by having them just go into a temp down state until either combat is over, or you resuscitate them. And equally viable solution.
    warpangel wrote: »
    I'm not "suggesting" anything. There was a time when I would've suggested making the mission fail if the gens blow, but like they'd ever do that.

    And it's not actual challenge. Actual challenge would be actually having to defend the generators, from an actually competent enemy, instead of having the mere option of playing (or not playing) laser tag for peanuts with the Wet Cardboard Armada while waiting for them to leave for Admiral Cardboard's dentist's appointment and your inevitable victory.
    Well, they probably will on Elite, since that is what elite is for.

    And if you don't defend them you lose out on most of the marks the TFO can reward, which defeats the point of playing the TFO in the first place. I can't image living with this kind of mindset where you "play" games simply to find ways to not play them.

    Are you sure about that? Have you weighed how much each generator is worth? Each dreadnought kill is worth two marks. But have you calculated the payout for keeping each satellite propped up or activated? Why do you suppose that people NASCAR the Breach runs? Or people do MIAFK/PAFK runs? Because you really aren't rewarded for going tryhard. Because it's "show up, get paid," with how the devs wired this game. No meaningful loot/carrot at the end, and nobody left behind. At most, going tryhard is the same as urinating in the pool. Warm, fuzzy feeling, but not out of the norm. Negligible marks returns. Since there are no real fail conditions, the optionals aren't gripping enough to make that imaginary brass ring tangible. To the last sentence in the bold/italicized section: It's called "taking a knee to let the clock run out." It works in sports, or in vs games, where you block all day, with the clock being your only attack when you are in a position to not throw the game/match. Where all the opposition can do is score "garbage points."
  • laughinxanlaughinxan Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited March 24
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    But they aren't.
    STO takes the alternate route some MMOs take by having them just go into a temp down state until either combat is over, or you resuscitate them. And equally viable solution.
    warpangel wrote: »
    I'm not "suggesting" anything. There was a time when I would've suggested making the mission fail if the gens blow, but like they'd ever do that.

    And it's not actual challenge. Actual challenge would be actually having to defend the generators, from an actually competent enemy, instead of having the mere option of playing (or not playing) laser tag for peanuts with the Wet Cardboard Armada while waiting for them to leave for Admiral Cardboard's dentist's appointment and your inevitable victory.
    Well, they probably will on Elite, since that is what elite is for.

    And if you don't defend them you lose out on most of the marks the TFO can reward, which defeats the point of playing the TFO in the first place. I can't image living with this kind of mindset where you "play" games simply to find ways to not play them.

    Are you sure about that? Have you weighed how much each generator is worth? Each dreadnought kill is worth two marks. But have you calculated the payout for keeping each satellite propped up or activated? Why do you suppose that people NASCAR the Breach runs? Or people do MIAFK/PAFK runs? Because you really aren't rewarded for going tryhard. Because it's "show up, get paid," with how the devs wired this game. No meaningful loot/carrot at the end, and nobody left behind. At most, going tryhard is the same as urinating in the pool. Warm, fuzzy feeling, but not out of the norm. Negligible marks returns. Since there are no real fail conditions, the optionals aren't gripping enough to make that imaginary brass ring tangible. To the last sentence in the bold/italicized section: It's called "taking a knee to let the clock run out." It works in sports, or in vs games, where you block all day, with the clock being your only attack when you are in a position to not throw the game/match. Where all the opposition can do is score "garbage points."

    Firstly on the last part of that paragraph, most fighting games if you just hold block you'll just get thrown in fighting games. The throw was included specifically to stop turtles hiding behind a block key. It's a fundamental part of them. Otherwise a player would only need to get one good hit in first and hold block all day to win a match.

    On the rest of that though, I generally consider strongly adding players who AFK a run of any kind to the ignore. To me it's straight up dishonorable and rude to do so. In many games I played, doing things like that got you kicked from the server or even banned from a server. Or in a few cases such acts or similar would see rank perma-demoted and creatively rigged against said dishonorable player forever(like half point gains forever in ranked matchups for wins, double losses for losing ect).

    Edit: Clarifiied a section

    Honestly they could just, if a player afk a tfo and a team starts falling below some kind of par score in general, go ahead and make the afker be the only one who pays for it. They lose all marks and the reward and the others who had to carry said afker get what he'd have gotten split among them. Course I guess thats just being mean, not to mention if a hardcore dpser shows up a newbie could get caught by the afk penalty unwittingly. Happened to me a few times in my earlier days and it wasn't fun waiting for 30 minutes because my dps was to low.
    Post edited by laughinxan on


    It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of him. And when the truth is undeniable, you create your own. - Conrad - Spec ops the Line

    Every time I see a wannabe-pro-gamer, the tryhard, I'm instantly thinking of how they often think they are the heroes of supposedly hard games. How it's there words that make sense only to them, but in the end, they are the ones actually hurting and harming the challenging game industry. From defending obvious game-breakers, or demanding others use a mechanic that fundamentally removes challenge. Sorry dudes, your not helping. Your not even helping games become challenging or hard in a good way again.

    Games don't feel like games when you can't lose, and also don't feel the same if you can't win fairly either.
  • laughinxanlaughinxan Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    xyquarze wrote: »
    About the "no healing to make players find a different route do fulfill the mission objective":

    that would be a nice idea, if said route wasn't "okay guys, blow everything up as fast as you can."

    Which, in my experience, is a much more prevalent player strategy than "heal everything" in STO, no matter whether it is useful in the mission in the first place. Healing something/somebody else than yourself would be the alternative here. Or using engineering satellites and a few abilities to reduce damage - but then you'll still have to blow up everything, and its usefulness may be debatable as well.

    Again it really isn't just blow them up as fast as possible. Heck i find they respawn FASTER when you do that. Again, threatening stance. It works wonders for keeping them fro shooting at the shield generators. Or crowd control abilities to stop them in their tracks so they aren't as likely to target those shield generators or do both.

    Support isn't just healing.


    It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of him. And when the truth is undeniable, you create your own. - Conrad - Spec ops the Line

    Every time I see a wannabe-pro-gamer, the tryhard, I'm instantly thinking of how they often think they are the heroes of supposedly hard games. How it's there words that make sense only to them, but in the end, they are the ones actually hurting and harming the challenging game industry. From defending obvious game-breakers, or demanding others use a mechanic that fundamentally removes challenge. Sorry dudes, your not helping. Your not even helping games become challenging or hard in a good way again.

    Games don't feel like games when you can't lose, and also don't feel the same if you can't win fairly either.
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,272 Arc User
    I think it's just fine. It's not lost on me that it's very similar to Dranuur Gauntlet (maybe even an exact copy) but that doesn't bother me, because:
    It has less annoying mobs,
    It's easier and shorter,
    And it has multiple mark choice.
    I'm getting two characters fully ready for all reputations when they hit lvl 50 with Dissention last time and Peril this time.

    No complaints.
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,896 Arc User
    edited March 24
    warpangel wrote: »
    Which nobody will play, because it will reward nothing of interest over the auto-win Advanced version.
    If you are playing elite for "rewards" you wouldn't play elite at all. I know this may be hard for you to understand, but some people don't CARE about the rewards, and simply play things for the FUN, and CHALLENGE. Which is pretty much what elite difficulty in STO is for.
    warpangel wrote: »
    The point of playing it is the event token.
    This
    A. Ignores the fact the TFO will come back after the event is over.
    B. Ignores that the the reward isn't the point.
    warpangel wrote: »
    The 12:50 waiting time is more productively spent doing Admiralty than the peanut optionals. I'd just turn the peanuts into more dil anyway...if the toon I'm doing it with didn't already have over a month's backlog of refining quota.
    I couldn't imagine living my life with such an utterly dull, and defeatist to the entire point of games, attitude like that. Hell, by this argument, your time is more productively spent doing a hobby that can make you money, or better spent on improving your skills for your job so you can get a promotion and make more money. Why are you playing games at all, especially when they are the definition of unproductive time spent, when all you care about is cost/reward ratios?

    What sort of back ***wards argument is this supposed to be?
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,277 Arc User
    Given that this is pretty much the feedback thread (which should have been started when this drivel appeared) I suspect this will be pinned and adpoted as the one.

    Also the feedback probably wasn't wanted since they apparently admitted on a livestream that it was a (lazy) copy pasta job so they likely already realise what the feedback will end up being.
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 782 Arc User
    edited March 24
    laughinxan wrote: »
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    But they aren't.
    STO takes the alternate route some MMOs take by having them just go into a temp down state until either combat is over, or you resuscitate them. And equally viable solution.
    warpangel wrote: »
    I'm not "suggesting" anything. There was a time when I would've suggested making the mission fail if the gens blow, but like they'd ever do that.

    And it's not actual challenge. Actual challenge would be actually having to defend the generators, from an actually competent enemy, instead of having the mere option of playing (or not playing) laser tag for peanuts with the Wet Cardboard Armada while waiting for them to leave for Admiral Cardboard's dentist's appointment and your inevitable victory.
    Well, they probably will on Elite, since that is what elite is for.

    And if you don't defend them you lose out on most of the marks the TFO can reward, which defeats the point of playing the TFO in the first place. I can't image living with this kind of mindset where you "play" games simply to find ways to not play them.

    Are you sure about that? Have you weighed how much each generator is worth? Each dreadnought kill is worth two marks. But have you calculated the payout for keeping each satellite propped up or activated? Why do you suppose that people NASCAR the Breach runs? Or people do MIAFK/PAFK runs? Because you really aren't rewarded for going tryhard. Because it's "show up, get paid," with how the devs wired this game. No meaningful loot/carrot at the end, and nobody left behind. At most, going tryhard is the same as urinating in the pool. Warm, fuzzy feeling, but not out of the norm. Negligible marks returns. Since there are no real fail conditions, the optionals aren't gripping enough to make that imaginary brass ring tangible. To the last sentence in the bold/italicized section: It's called "taking a knee to let the clock run out." It works in sports, or in vs games, where you block all day, with the clock being your only attack when you are in a position to not throw the game/match. Where all the opposition can do is score "garbage points."

    Firstly on the last part of that paragraph, most fighting games if you just hold block you'll just get thrown in fighting games. The throw was included specifically to stop turtles hiding behind a block key. It's a fundamental part of them. Otherwise a player would only need to get one good hit in first and hold block all day to win a match.

    On the rest of that though, I generally consider strongly adding players who AFK a run of any kind. To me it's straight up dishonorable and rude to do so. In many games I played, doing things like that got you kicked from the server or even banned from a server. Or in a few cases such acts or similar would see rank perma-demoted and creatively rigged against said dishonorable player forever(like half point gains forever in ranked matchups for wins, double losses for losing ect).

    Honestly they could just, if a player afk a tfo and a team starts falling below some kind of par score in general, go ahead and make the afker be the only one who pays for it. They lose all marks and the reward and the others who had to carry said afker get what he'd have gotten split among them. Course I guess thats just being mean, not to mention if a hardcore dpser shows up a newbie could get caught by the afk penalty unwittingly. Happened to me a few times in my earlier days and it wasn't fun waiting for 30 minutes because my dps was to low.[
    /quote]

    Counter to that, via the bold text: There is evasion/dodging, or pushback/impact hitting(timed block/riposte) when an attempt to throw is made. Keeping your opponent from closing in to hug you.

    To the bold/italicized part: Good luck with trying to enforce players to all play "your way." You'll find, with how social and chatty the majority of teams are in STF/TFO/Events, that the people who care whether you think they are "dishonorable or rude," are in the vast, vast minority.
    Especially in a game where players keep a step ahead in the gameplay arms race for acquiring what they want. It's in human nature to try and search for the easiest, most efficient way to get what you seek. To get ahead. This game isn't like those others you played, because this one doesn't have **** for competition, or promotion. As you said, those other games you played have a ranking system. STO has a "log in, queue up, get paid," for handing things out. The rewards for going tryhard in STF/TFO/Events don't measure up. The devs don't believe in a reward system to promote doing your best, just as they don't believe in competition.

    Other than a few cases(Red Alert or Brotherhood of the Sword timers mostly), there are not many fail conditions(Tzenkethi Red Alert has one if a torpedo sneaks past your team to pop the planet, Bug Hunt has one that requires you to keep Casper van Diem alive at the end). Only two TFO/STF/Event cases have a skeleton of a 1st/2nd/3rd place reward. And each TFO/STF/Event hands out a static marks/widget reward, modified by a minor/negligible amount by whether or not you do the optionals.

    There are plenty of posts about people complaining about AFKers in the game, and wanting higher punishments to be handed out. Maybe it's time instead, to take a look at whether the devs are capable of adapting/evolving past locked timegates and unlimited spawns, with meager pittance marks rewards for completing optionals. Because a rehashed Dranuur Gate sure as **** isn't all that engaging and gripping enough to go balls out. Just as the Pahvo ground one wasn't. Just as the Breach, or BotBS, or Mirror Invasion's "Defense of Waffle Station" weren't.

    Stupid forum bug making my post a goofy quote. A big can of bugspray mixed with promethium might fix that.
    Post edited by ichaerus1 on
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,896 Arc User
    edited March 24
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    Stupid forum bug making my post a goofy quote. A big can of bugspray mixed with promethium might fix that.
    That isn't a forum bug, that's you accidentally deleting a bracket somewhere when you copied the post that means the quote tags aren't properly closed.

    Having quoted your post and looked at it, I already have found the missing bracket... good luck!
  • jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    It's an ok TFO, could be way worse.. could easily be better. It's tedious for sure I will say, I hang out at Gen A. park by turret 4.. blast the pack ,swing to turret 1. blast the pack. Rinse and repeat for 5 minutes x2. I think AFTER the event it will be a nice way to get marks you need, sorta like DSB1.

    I will say though that I DO sorta like the Engi turrets, well when they plop the barrier correctly, and they also have shields so they dont go down as fast as the tac ones do. I drop rally markers on Alphas #4 turret while blasting things when Im on my engi (but thats the only turret I will turn into an engi one)
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,483 Arc User
    Played it 3 more times today, didn't lose a generator, the protomatter console does seem to heal them as well.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,807 Arc User
    edited March 24
    warpangel wrote: »
    Which nobody will play, because it will reward nothing of interest over the auto-win Advanced version.
    Less people sure, but nobody!!! not by a long shot. Lots of people would play Elite because its more fun and actually requires you to play the game instead of sitting there doing nothing. One of the worst changes in STO was when the devs changed the UI so those of us that like a challenge cannot play Elites together. Followed by bringing out new TFO's in easy mode only.

    When there are tokens to earn I prefer to earn them in the most fun way and that's doing advance over normal and Elite over advanced. I really like the design and play style of Peril over Pahvo but its needs a harder version so we can have more fun earning that token.
  • blitzy4blitzy4 Member Posts: 765 Arc User
    edited March 24
    nixboox wrote: »
    It was terrible. I was literally parked in front of Satellite Alpha for the entire event, first turning my ship to port - blow up the enemies - then turn to starboard - blow up the enemies...repeat. This wasn't any kind of challenge, it was just 'busy work'.

    Wait for the AFK patrol and it becomes a challenge. I did it once yesterday for the daily, and there was an AFK person, while the rest of the team was at alpha. It turned out pretty hard. Then a couple minutes later I did a random TF, and got it again. That one had another AFK person, but we split into pairs so it worked much better.
    jKixCmJ.jpg
    "..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino



  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,461 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Which nobody will play, because it will reward nothing of interest over the auto-win Advanced version.
    Less people sure, but nobody!!! not by a long shot. Lots of people would play Elite because its more fun and actually requires you to play the game instead of sitting there doing nothing. One of the worst changes in STO was when the devs changed the UI so those of us that like a challenge cannot play Elites together. Followed by bringing out new TFO's in easy mode only.
    Considering all the complaining you've done (and are continuing to do in this very post) that the Elite queues are all stone dead empty, your "lots of people" seems like wishful thinking.

    The only thing anyone has any reason to play, is Advanced. Normal and Elite might as well not even exist.

    But I do have to agree that these featured queues only being available on Normal is lame. Because, see above.
    When there are tokens to earn I prefer to earn them in the most fun way and that's doing advance over normal and Elite over advanced. I really like the design and play style of Peril over Pahvo but its needs a harder version so we can have more fun earning that token.
    There is a harder version, it's called Dranuur Gauntlet.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,807 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    “Considering all the complaining you've done (and are continuing to do in this very post) that the Elite queues are all stone dead empty, your "lots of people" seems like wishful thinking.”
    It’s hardly wishful thinking based on passed history. Whenever there is an event and when there is an advance and elite version lots of channels are full of people looking for groups to run those events on advance and Elite. The DPS channels will often have more people forming event Advance/Elite queues then normal event queues.

    Elites are not dead because people do not want to play them. They are dead because of the stupid UI change meaning we cannot join each other to play them. Events are different as its easier to find other people wanting to run that event on Elite.

    warpangel wrote: »
    “There is a harder version, it's called Dranuur Gauntlet”
    Which doesn’t give you the token so it’s not a valid choice. Many of us want to earn the token in the most fun way possible and that’s by doing advance or Elite. Like I said before I like the design of this TFO but if there was an advance or elite version I wouldn't go near normal as the normal version has no feeling of accomplishment or reward.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,461 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Which nobody will play, because it will reward nothing of interest over the auto-win Advanced version.
    If you are playing elite for "rewards" you wouldn't play elite at all.
    And surprise surprise, I don't.
    I know this may be hard for you to understand, but some people don't CARE about the rewards, and simply play things for the FUN, and CHALLENGE. Which is pretty much what elite difficulty in STO is for.
    It's not hard for me to understand at all. But seems to be hard for you to understand that for some people the rewards ARE the fun.
    warpangel wrote: »
    The 12:50 waiting time is more productively spent doing Admiralty than the peanut optionals. I'd just turn the peanuts into more dil anyway...if the toon I'm doing it with didn't already have over a month's backlog of refining quota.
    I couldn't imagine
    Well, there's your problem.
  • laughinxanlaughinxan Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited March 24
    In response to Ichaerus1

    What, your defending people who afk/leech in that statement? Who basically afk/idle/leech in a run? Don't accuse me of being a try hard here sir. Seriously though, afking/idling/leeching in a tfo is rude and lazy. I don't even care if you go for optionals or not its when your afking/idling/leeching, your making everyone in the team pick up the extra weight you could be putting in. Not to mention it has to be very boring to do so.

    I'm not even a major try-hard, ok? Really I don't get angry when players don't play exactly like I demand them to or anything, I don't make up artificial rules that are non-sensible for others to follow. Do tiny bits of damage, who cares just do whatever the heck you can.

    But there is a line to be drawn and i feel afking/idling/leeching crosses that. It's not fair to the other players in the TFO. You are holding THEM back by literally not doing anything. This shouldn't even be a debate.

    In fact thats practically the only unwritten rule I have around me; Leech and you get my ignore. That and throwing a tantrum over how others are playing(everyone starts somewhere, and at least they are trying!)

    And not all games I played had a ranking system, just a few, and even those WITHOUT ranking systems afking/leeching was considered offensive to players. Actually why am I even replying to that, your kind of straw-manning me here. And I suspect that is ultimately a troll statement and one core reason I don't tend to be very forthcoming on cryptic forums.

    Kind of glad though, I have noticed that I haven't had any leeches so far in the TFO so far.

    Edit: And to clarify: Going afk quickly for a phone call, or urgent bathroom break during something long is one thing. What I'm refering to as many here seem to be, is idling the ENTIRE RUN.


    It takes a strong man to deny whats right in front of him. And when the truth is undeniable, you create your own. - Conrad - Spec ops the Line

    Every time I see a wannabe-pro-gamer, the tryhard, I'm instantly thinking of how they often think they are the heroes of supposedly hard games. How it's there words that make sense only to them, but in the end, they are the ones actually hurting and harming the challenging game industry. From defending obvious game-breakers, or demanding others use a mechanic that fundamentally removes challenge. Sorry dudes, your not helping. Your not even helping games become challenging or hard in a good way again.

    Games don't feel like games when you can't lose, and also don't feel the same if you can't win fairly either.
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 240 Arc User
    laughinxan wrote: »
    In response to Ichaerus1

    What, your defending people who afk/leech in that statement? Who basically afk/idle/leech in a run? Don't accuse me of being a try hard here sir. Seriously though, afking/idling/leeching in a tfo is rude and lazy. I don't even care if you go for optionals or not its when your afking/idling/leeching, your making everyone in the team pick up the extra weight you could be putting in. Not to mention it has to be very boring to do so.

    I'm not even a major try-hard, ok? Really I don't get angry when players don't play exactly like I demand them to or anything, I don't make up artificial rules that are non-sensible for others to follow. Do tiny bits of damage, who cares just do whatever the heck you can.

    But there is a line to be drawn and i feel afking/idling/leeching crosses that. It's not fair to the other players in the TFO. You are holding THEM back by literally not doing anything. This shouldn't even be a debate.

    In fact thats practically the only unwritten rule I have around me; Leech and you get my ignore. That and throwing a tantrum over how others are playing(everyone starts somewhere, and at least they are trying!)

    And not all games I played had a ranking system, just a few, and even those WITHOUT ranking systems afking/leeching was considered offensive to players. Actually why am I even replying to that, your kind of straw-manning me here. And I suspect that is ultimately a troll statement and one core reason I don't tend to be very forthcoming on cryptic forums.

    Kind of glad though, I have noticed that I haven't had any leeches so far in the TFO so far.

    Edit: And to clarify: Going afk quickly for a phone call, or urgent bathroom break during something long is one thing. What I'm refering to as many here seem to be, is idling the ENTIRE RUN.

    Honestly I can't blame them. The missions are programmed to be played afk, boring with a timer and you are forced to do them 14 times if you want the reward unless you want to spend some cash of course. Afk'ler should just sign up together like the do over public queues in the chat. I don't like people afk if they sign up without grouping. The least they can do is click on follow somebody and have weapons on autofire.

    But yeah i noticed plenty of leechers, they die and never respawn ect... There is no challenge, so i don't expect anybody to take this seriously however they should at least make the effort to engage in some way.
    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,896 Arc User
    Honestly I can't blame them. The missions are programmed to be played afk, boring with a timer and you are forced to do them 14 times if you want the reward unless you want to spend some cash of course. Afk'ler should just sign up together like the do over public queues in the chat. I don't like people afk if they sign up without grouping. The least they can do is click on follow somebody and have weapons on autofire.

    But yeah i noticed plenty of leechers, they die and never respawn ect... There is no challenge, so i don't expect anybody to take this seriously however they should at least make the effort to engage in some way.
    Honestly, I don't see many AFKers at all in these missions.

    I play Mirror Invasion about 3 times a day when its running, and during the whole 21 day event I see, maybe, 6-7 AFKErs. So about 6-7 of the 250+ I play with. Same with Pahvo, I played it usually twice a day when it was running, had literally all of one person AFK, and that was until everyone yelled at him enough to where he eventually actually joined for the second half.
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 37,117 Arc User
    I afk a lot for this event but only with other people afking in private matches.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
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