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Octopuses alter their own genetic code

mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,359 Arc User
edited March 6 in Ten Forward
https://www.sciencealert.com/octopus-and-squid-evolution-is-officially-weirder-than-we-could-have-ever-imagined
In a surprising twist, in April last year scientists discovered that octopuses, along with some squid and cuttlefish species, routinely edit their RNA (ribonucleic acid) sequences to adapt to their environment.
So basically they alter their own genetic code, however it happens on the RNA level, not the DNA level. Both is possible in principle, but the RNA changes are more rarely found in most life forms.

I remember we had a discussion on life on different planets, and one question was how likely it would be to find lifeforms living in water with technological capability. A big challenge is that a fundamental aspect of technology as we understand it relies on the ability to master fire, and it just doesn't work so well under water, even if we tried to use natural heat sources. So it seems certain high level tech, like "organic" technology involving genetic manipulation, could be unreachable, because it requires highly precise instruments that don't exist in nature.

Apparantly, there are some natural mechanism that don't need this fundament. Of course, RNA and DNA modification are different. DNA changes are inherited to descendants, but RNA changes presumably not, but it still opens up interesting possibilies which can be fun to speculate about.

Fascinating stuff.
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Comments

  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 612 Arc User
    Don’t you remember the Eugenics War we fought in 1996 to stop genetic modification of Humans, remember how Kahn and some of his followers were never found and could still be out there?
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,076 Bug Hunter
    Don’t you remember the Eugenics War we fought in 1996 to stop genetic modification of Humans, remember how Kahn and some of his followers were never found and could still be out there?

    No, the Eugenics wars were fought in 2050 not 1996. Archer's great grandfather was involved in them and they were 200 years into TOS' past and 300 into DS9s past.​​
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,370 Arc User
    In 1966, they were fought in 1996. Of course, in 1966 we had asteroid-mining craft and cryogenic suspension by 1996, so...
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,736 Arc User
    edited March 6
    According to the Space Seed episode:

    SPOCK: No such vessel listed. Records of that period are fragmentary, however. The mid-1990s was the era of your last so-called World War.
    MCCOY: The Eugenics Wars.
    SCOTT: Definitely Earth-type mechanism, sir. Twentieth century vessel. Old type atomic power. Bulky, solid. I think they used to call them transistor units. I'd love to tear this baby apart.
    KIRK: How long have you been sleeping? Two centuries we estimate. Landing party to Enterprise. Come in.
    Spock: From 1992 through 1996, absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world. From Asia through the Middle East.

    It looks like there was a retcon for the last so-called World War from the mid-1990s to the mid-21st Century. Whether Khan was part of the new retconned World War 3, it is not known if the Eugenics War happened in the mid-1990s or if it was moved to the mid-21st Century.

    As far as the 2 centuries comment is concerned, Kirk should have said two and a half centuries to be more accurate. However, the Twentieth Century vessel comment and mid-1990s and 'from 1992 through 1996' comments confirms that according to TOS, the Eugenics War and the 'last so-called World War' happened in the mid-1990s and not 2050.

    If the Eugenics War happened in the 2050s, then it makes more sense for Jonathan Archer's grandfather to have fought in it rather than his great grandfather. If we go by Henry Archer's actor's age when he showed up in Enterprise, he would have been born in 2078 which is 82 years since the end of the Eugenics War according to Space Seed. It is possible for Archer's great grandfather to have fought in the Eugenic Wars in the mid-1990s if they had Jonathan Archer's grandfather in his 40s and Henry Archer when Jonathan Archer's grandfather was in his 40s. Considering that we are not given an age for Henry Archer when he died, he could have been in his 50s or 60s when he died instead of 46. There is also the fact that we don't know how many children Jonathan Archer's grandfather or great grandfather had or when they were born.

  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,076 Bug Hunter
    jonsills wrote: »
    In 1966, they were fought in 1996. Of course, in 1966 we had asteroid-mining craft and cryogenic suspension by 1996, so...

    2050, they were fought in 2050. Two centuries prior to 2267 is 2067 and what's 7 years to a couple of centuries. The rest of the dialogue even spells out it's the same conflict as the Third World War.

    SPOCK: No such vessel listed. Records of that period are fragmentary, however. The mid-1990s was the era of your last so-called World War.

    Obviously Spock misspoke with the 90s line because Kirk clarifies it was basically 200 years

    KIRK: How long have you been sleeping? Two centuries we estimate.

    The 90s are much closer to 300 years than 200 to 2267.

    Confirmed by DS9 which adds a century to the total given by Kirk. Confirmed again by VGR which has the crew travel to a 90s Earth with no WWIII. Confirmed again by ENT which has Archer's great-grandfather involved in the conflict.

    Anyone who believes the Eugenics War happened in the 90s probably thinks the Enterprise runs on lithium and Spock only has a human ancestor.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,359 Arc User
    edited March 6
    In unrelated news, Octopus have also been found to have telepathic abilities to distract people with Starfleet canon trivia discussions, so that humans never really figure out a way to deal with the Octopus capabilities for world domination until it's too late.

    Starfleet is not a military!

    Mustrum "A voice in my head made me write this" Ridcully
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,370 Arc User
    As I said, Artan, in 1966 they happened in 1996. In 1995, they happened sometime after 2024, the year of the Bell Riots. In 2025, there'll probably be another retcon putting the Bell Riots in 2035, and the Eugenics Wars in the later 21st century. Blame the Change War - er, I mean the Temporal Cold War.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,736 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    As I said, Artan, in 1966 they happened in 1996. In 1995, they happened sometime after 2024, the year of the Bell Riots. In 2025, there'll probably be another retcon putting the Bell Riots in 2035, and the Eugenics Wars in the later 21st century. Blame the Change War - er, I mean the Temporal Cold War.

    Good enough reason for the retcons or they could say that the Star Trek universe separated from our universe. Just like what happened with the Prime Universe and STO Universe after Nemesis.
  • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 34,228 Arc User
    edited March 7
    In unrelated news, Octopus have also been found to have telepathic abilities to distract people with Starfleet canon trivia discussions, so that humans never really figure out a way to deal with the Octopus capabilities for world domination until it's too late.

    Starfleet is not a military!

    Mustrum "A voice in my head made me write this" Ridcully

    Can't...breathe...!
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,730 Arc User
    Huh ... this is slightly off-topic but I have never heard 'octopuses' before, I had always known the plural form of octopus to be 'octopi'. A quick Google search showed that I was incorrect though and in fact both are acceptable, with 'octopuses' being technically more correct due to the origins of the word 'octopus'. Fascinating.
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  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    You only use the us to i plural for Latin words. So, fungi and octopuses.

    The three-year life span of octopuses renders any plans they may have for world domination somewhat less than achievable. Now, when they convince some human to come up with a way for them to survive their breeding cycle, they might become something more than very smart animals. And they are, indeed, very smart.

    I encountered exactly one octopus in the wild, (though I probably swam past hundreds and never saw them.) It definitely out-smarted me. I may not be the shining example of human intelligence...

    It left me with rows of hickeys where its tentacles latched onto my arm and try as I might I couldn't get it to let go until it decided it wanted to get away from me, at which time I was more than glad to not bother it again. It was all of ten inches long, or about twenty or so centimeters. My point is, don't reach out and grab that cool-looking octopus. It might grab back.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,359 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    You only use the us to i plural for Latin words. So, fungi and octopuses.

    The three-year life span of octopuses renders any plans they may have for world domination somewhat less than achievable. Now, when they convince some human to come up with a way for them to survive their breeding cycle, they might become something more than very smart animals. And they are, indeed, very smart.

    I encountered exactly one octopus in the wild, (though I probably swam past hundreds and never saw them.) It definitely out-smarted me. I may not be the shining example of human intelligence...

    It left me with rows of hickeys where its tentacles latched onto my arm and try as I might I couldn't get it to let go until it decided it wanted to get away from me, at which time I was more than glad to not bother it again. It was all of ten inches long, or about twenty or so centimeters. My point is, don't reach out and grab that cool-looking octopus. It might grab back.
    I don't know about your intelligence, but I guess you weren't the tastiest humans it found? Or did it have romantic ambitions?
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  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    Well, I happened upon it while it was on the sand. I thought it was a rock because it was just an odd-shaped bump on the sand, so I picked it up. It wrapped its arms around my wrist. I panicked and tried to pull it loose, but I had one free hand and it had eight. It made a football-sized ball of black water and shot off towards real rocks about three seconds into the encounter, and I went up for a breath of air, having lost most of what I had in surprise at the situation. Afterwards I went looking, but never saw the guy again. brian 334 = 0, octopus = 1.
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    > @mustrumridcully0 said:
    > brian334 wrote: »
    >
    > You only use the us to i plural for Latin words. So, fungi and octopuses.
    >
    > The three-year life span of octopuses renders any plans they may have for world domination somewhat less than achievable. Now, when they convince some human to come up with a way for them to survive their breeding cycle, they might become something more than very smart animals. And they are, indeed, very smart.
    >
    > I encountered exactly one octopus in the wild, (though I probably swam past hundreds and never saw them.) It definitely out-smarted me. I may not be the shining example of human intelligence...
    >
    > It left me with rows of hickeys where its tentacles latched onto my arm and try as I might I couldn't get it to let go until it decided it wanted to get away from me, at which time I was more than glad to not bother it again. It was all of ten inches long, or about twenty or so centimeters. My point is, don't reach out and grab that cool-looking octopus. It might grab back.
    >
    >
    >
    > I don't know about your intelligence, but I guess you weren't the tastiest humans it found? Or did it have romantic ambitions?

    Bawhahaha, someone has been watching too many Hentai movies ;D

    Kidding aside this is more evidence that genetic engineering is NOT unnatural.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,076 Bug Hunter
    In unrelated news, Octopus have also been found to have telepathic abilities to distract people with Starfleet canon trivia discussions, so that humans never really figure out a way to deal with the Octopus capabilities for world domination until it's too late.

    Starfleet is not a military!

    Mustrum "A voice in my head made me write this" Ridcully

    Must! Resist! Continuing! Off-topic! Stuff! I! Like! Talking! About!

    Octopuses, cool animals right. It's still impossible for any aquatic animals to develop anywhere near what a surface animal could. Individual intelligence wouldn't be able to overcome the impossibility of not having hands, a solid surface where you could leave stuff, or the ability to mine or harvest raw materials.
    brian334 wrote: »
    You only use the us to i plural for Latin words. So, fungi and octopuses.

    Except both fungus and octopus are now English words not Latin and are therefore subject to English pluralisation rules. The correct pluralisation for both is to add an 's'. Funguses and octopuses.
    'Fungi' is only ever appropriate if you're using the word as a Latin word in the same way we use Latin for genus and species names, in which case the convention is to italicise it. Same with octopodes (but never octopi)​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 47,810 Arc User
    Then explain Cactus and Cacti.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,076 Bug Hunter
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Then explain Cactus and Cacti.

    Explain what? The correct plural is cactuses. Cacti is more common because people think they're being clever. It's an English word like octopus so it gets an 'es'.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 47,810 Arc User
    Acutally...
    Confusion arises over the plural of cactus because its original plural form (cacti) derives from Latin and native English speakers are drawn to cactuses, which adheres to the standard ruling for forming plurals. Both cactuses and cacti are acceptable. Of note, cacti is the more common plural.

    And as it turns out... Octopus isn't actually Latin. Its Greek.
    USAGE The standard English plural of octopus is octopuses. However, the word octopus comes from Greek, and the Greek plural form is octopodes. Modern usage of octopodes is so infrequent that many people mistakenly create the erroneous plural form octopi, formed according to rules for Latin plurals

    So actually... the correct plural form of Octopus is Octopodes.

    Google-fu at work.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 34,228 Arc User
    edited March 7
    In unrelated news, Octopodes' telepathic abilities have also been found to distract people with linguistic trivia debates, believed to also be a part of their scheme for world domination.

    Starfleet is not a military!

    Ryan "stealing another guy's gag, shamelessly" 218
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 47,810 Arc User
    ROFLMAO
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    I for one welcome out Octo...er...eight tentacled Overloads.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,076 Bug Hunter
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Acutally...
    Confusion arises over the plural of cactus because its original plural form (cacti) derives from Latin and native English speakers are drawn to cactuses, which adheres to the standard ruling for forming plurals. Both cactuses and cacti are acceptable. Of note, cacti is the more common plural.

    And as it turns out... Octopus isn't actually Latin. Its Greek.
    USAGE The standard English plural of octopus is octopuses. However, the word octopus comes from Greek, and the Greek plural form is octopodes. Modern usage of octopodes is so infrequent that many people mistakenly create the erroneous plural form octopi, formed according to rules for Latin plurals

    So actually... the correct plural form of Octopus is Octopodes.

    Google-fu at work.

    Except neither of these are true. Both are now English words not Latin or Greek and so don't get Latin or Greek pluralisations unless you're speaking Latin or Greek.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 47,810 Arc User
    So... are you a linguist?

    And... what's the "proper" plural of Moose?
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    According to Bullwinkle the plural of Moose is Meese. (Goose/geese, moose/meese.) Of course, you youngsters know nothing of Bullwinkle. 10 minute shorts with hundred-episode story arcs, serialized for your pleasure, and interrupted by Fractured Fairy Tales, Aesop and Son, World of Commander McBragg, Mr. Peabody's Improbable History, Tennessee Tuxedo, Dudley Do-Right of the Mounties, or Go-Go-Gophers. And they were actually funny as in you laughed from time to time.
  • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 34,228 Arc User
    I know of the adventures of Rocky and Bulwinkle! Admittedly, only from the movie, which I have no idea why I had on VHS.

    Hold on, I need to find my Steve Rogers 'I got that reference!' meme...
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,076 Bug Hunter
    rattler2 wrote: »
    So... are you a linguist?

    And... what's the "proper" plural of Moose?

    Group of moose. Herd of moose. Bloody moose in the pickup again Cheryl, git ma shotgun, there's more than one of dem buggers.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,727 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    So... are you a linguist?

    And... what's the "proper" plural of Moose?

    Group of moose. Herd of moose. Bloody moose in the pickup again Cheryl, git ma shotgun, there's more than one of dem buggers.​​
    so you have groups, herd and bloody mooses eh? :D
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  • aten66aten66 Member Posts: 650 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    So... are you a linguist?

    And... what's the "proper" plural of Moose?

    Group of moose. Herd of moose. Bloody moose in the pickup again Cheryl, git ma shotgun, there's more than one of dem buggers.​​
    so you have groups, herd and bloody mooses eh? :D

    Once he shoots them with that shotgun...
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    I wonder what moose tastes like in a sauce piquant?
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,668 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    As I said, Artan, in 1966 they happened in 1996. In 1995, they happened sometime after 2024, the year of the Bell Riots. In 2025, there'll probably be another retcon putting the Bell Riots in 2035, and the Eugenics Wars in the later 21st century. Blame the Change War - er, I mean the Temporal Cold War.

    I liked Greg Cox's Rise of Khan novels' solution of making the Eugenics Wars into an alternate history/historical fiction piece: he repurposes a lot of real events of the '80s and '90s, e.g. the '84 anti-Sikh riots and the intervention in Somalia, as pieces of a fairly shadowy war with the Augments.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
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