To be fair, if we follow the logic from 'Parallels' that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made (which is a point of divergence in itself), then it stands to reason that there would be at least one alternate reality where events did unfold as they did in the Mirror Universe. If time is infinite, then choices are also infinite, and since choices represent one form of divergence point by which a parallel reality might be formed, we must also conclude that there are infinite parallel realities, following an infinite number of divergences not only from our reality but from their own as well. Law of probability says that there must be at least one reality where events unfolded in any given way.
That doesn't make the MU any better a literary device, but it isn't completely preposterous.
But on the flipside, the infinite number of divergences means the odds of encountering that universe are infinitesimally small.
What amazes me is that professional writers thought the MU idea was good. It gives me little hope that Hollywood can create anything but cop-shows based on misapplications of criminal psychology and headlines from the news.
I mean, the MU was a product of TOS, not modern Hollywood. It was comic-book quality writing. These days, movies of actual comic books are deeper than that. One movie I can point to that's about the human condition, empowerment, and improvement in our way of thinking is How to Train Your Dragon. It's like Devil in the Dark, but moreso.
...Though I will share your amazement at just how lame so many of the ideas we get from professional writers are. I mean, everybody comes up with lame ideas but part of being a professional writer is being able to discard those lame ideas or put them aside for a while and come back when you've figured out how to refine them into good ideas.
The way I understand it their initial contract was for 3 movies, Thus the studio had to negotiate new contracts for films beyond that.
Yes the cast had a 3 picture deal... this is about ST4 thou. They had a new deal in place for the new movie(s) and it was all announced before 3 was released... big names = more investors. You know how well 3 did... so studio went back and asked for pay cuts... personally I think all actors are overpaid, but a deal is a deal and should be honored. course they could always pull an Iron Man 2 and recast.
What amazes me is that professional writers thought the MU idea was good. It gives me little hope that Hollywood can create anything but cop-shows based on misapplications of criminal psychology and headlines from the news.
I mean, the MU was a product of TOS, not modern Hollywood. It was comic-book quality writing. These days, movies of actual comic books are deeper than that. One movie I can point to that's about the human condition, empowerment, and improvement in our way of thinking is How to Train Your Dragon. It's like Devil in the Dark, but moreso.
Heh, Thing is.... the MU ISN'T identical but evil. It's canon that a lot of people DON'T have mirror counterparts at all. There's actually only a few important characters who are nearly the same but evil.
The one thing Discovery did right though was treat the Mirror Universe as more than a campy "mirror image" of everything. They actually made the Terran Empire feel like a legit threat. This wasn't Snively Whiplash campy moustache twisting evil. This was Full on Dark Side Evil.
They did keep many of the elements that were first introduced with TOS, like assassination can lead to promotion on a ship, but it was done in a way that really did make you feel that this is a window into the really dark places in humans. We ARE capable of this kind of evil. We just choose not to.
To be fair, if we follow the logic from 'Parallels' that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made (which is a point of divergence in itself), then it stands to reason that there would be at least one alternate reality where events did unfold as they did in the Mirror Universe. If time is infinite, then choices are also infinite, and since choices represent one form of divergence point by which a parallel reality might be formed, we must also conclude that there are infinite parallel realities, following an infinite number of divergences not only from our reality but from their own as well. Law of probability says that there must be at least one reality where events unfolded in any given way.
That doesn't make the MU any better a literary device, but it isn't completely preposterous.
But Parallels didn't follow the idea that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made. From Data in the Parallels episode, "There is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities." So if there is an infinite number of parallel universes, then every possible decision would be made in a parallel universe. All of the parallel universes would be created at the same time as our universe and not created due to someone deciding to drink Pepsi instead of Coke.
To be fair, if we follow the logic from 'Parallels' that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made (which is a point of divergence in itself), then it stands to reason that there would be at least one alternate reality where events did unfold as they did in the Mirror Universe. If time is infinite, then choices are also infinite, and since choices represent one form of divergence point by which a parallel reality might be formed, we must also conclude that there are infinite parallel realities, following an infinite number of divergences not only from our reality but from their own as well. Law of probability says that there must be at least one reality where events unfolded in any given way.
That doesn't make the MU any better a literary device, but it isn't completely preposterous.
But Parallels didn't follow the idea that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made. From Data in the Parallels episode, "There is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities." So if there is an infinite number of parallel universes, then every possible decision would be made in a parallel universe. All of the parallel universes would be created at the same time as our universe and not created due to someone deciding to drink Pepsi instead of Coke.
Which doesn't change the fact that there would be an infinite number of points of divergence, which was the main, central point of my post.
To be fair, if we follow the logic from 'Parallels' that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made (which is a point of divergence in itself), then it stands to reason that there would be at least one alternate reality where events did unfold as they did in the Mirror Universe. If time is infinite, then choices are also infinite, and since choices represent one form of divergence point by which a parallel reality might be formed, we must also conclude that there are infinite parallel realities, following an infinite number of divergences not only from our reality but from their own as well. Law of probability says that there must be at least one reality where events unfolded in any given way.
That doesn't make the MU any better a literary device, but it isn't completely preposterous.
But Parallels didn't follow the idea that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made. From Data in the Parallels episode, "There is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities." So if there is an infinite number of parallel universes, then every possible decision would be made in a parallel universe. All of the parallel universes would be created at the same time as our universe and not created due to someone deciding to drink Pepsi instead of Coke.
Which doesn't change the fact that there would be an infinite number of points of divergence, which was the main, central point of my post.
It doesn't change the conclusion, but it does change that there is an infinite number of points of divergence. Divergence has to be originally connected in some way while an infinite number of parallel universe means that there was no connection. The only reason why two parallel universes are identical is due to probability.
BUT... wouldn't that infinite number of parallel realities also cover realities that DON'T have the same technology? I mean wouldn't that mean that in some alternate reality, we have the UNSC fighting the Covenant, and in another we havethe Earth Alliance from Babylon 5?
BUT... wouldn't that infinite number of parallel realities also cover realities that DON'T have the same technology? I mean wouldn't that mean that in some alternate reality, we have the UNSC fighting the Covenant, and in another we havethe Earth Alliance from Babylon 5?
The technology might be different due to the possibility of different universes having different laws, but parallel universes allows the Federation fighting the Galactic Empire provided that warp travel, hyperspace, and the Force is possible in that reality. So it is possible that all fiction and [shudder]fan fiction[/shudder] is real in a parallel universe.
Remember that alternate universes are still constrained by what is possible. You can have a universe that is developed in a way that is infinitely improbable, but not one that developed in a way that is actually impossible. If something like, say hyperspace is actually impossible, you're not going to find a universe where exists.
BUT... wouldn't that infinite number of parallel realities also cover realities that DON'T have the same technology? I mean wouldn't that mean that in some alternate reality, we have the UNSC fighting the Covenant, and in another we havethe Earth Alliance from Babylon 5?
The technology might be different due to the possibility of different universes having different laws, but parallel universes allows the Federation fighting the Galactic Empire provided that warp travel, hyperspace, and the Force is possible in that reality. So it is possible that all fiction and [shudder]fan fiction[/shudder] is real in a parallel universe.
But the question arises: why would different universes have different laws?
Also, don't diss fanfiction! Most of it is terrible, yes, but most of everything is terrible. It's just as possible to write outstanding fanfiction as it is to write outstanding original fiction.
BUT... wouldn't that infinite number of parallel realities also cover realities that DON'T have the same technology? I mean wouldn't that mean that in some alternate reality, we have the UNSC fighting the Covenant, and in another we havethe Earth Alliance from Babylon 5?
The technology might be different due to the possibility of different universes having different laws, but parallel universes allows the Federation fighting the Galactic Empire provided that warp travel, hyperspace, and the Force is possible in that reality. So it is possible that all fiction and [shudder]fan fiction[/shudder] is real in a parallel universe.
This is the premise behind Heinlein's Number Of The Beast. It also featured in The Cat Who Walks Through Walls.
To be fair, if we follow the logic from 'Parallels' that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made (which is a point of divergence in itself), then it stands to reason that there would be at least one alternate reality where events did unfold as they did in the Mirror Universe. If time is infinite, then choices are also infinite, and since choices represent one form of divergence point by which a parallel reality might be formed, we must also conclude that there are infinite parallel realities, following an infinite number of divergences not only from our reality but from their own as well. Law of probability says that there must be at least one reality where events unfolded in any given way.
That doesn't make the MU any better a literary device, but it isn't completely preposterous.
But Parallels didn't follow the idea that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made. From Data in the Parallels episode, "There is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities." So if there is an infinite number of parallel universes, then every possible decision would be made in a parallel universe. All of the parallel universes would be created at the same time as our universe and not created due to someone deciding to drink Pepsi instead of Coke.
Which doesn't change the fact that there would be an infinite number of points of divergence, which was the main, central point of my post.
If you want to go that route though, why would each have a SINGLE point of divergence? As pointed out in Sliders, if the premise is that the universes are different naturally because they started that way, the divergence point is always the moment the universes came into existence. Thus scrutinizing decisions made by specific people is missing the forest for the trees.
BUT... wouldn't that infinite number of parallel realities also cover realities that DON'T have the same technology? I mean wouldn't that mean that in some alternate reality, we have the UNSC fighting the Covenant, and in another we havethe Earth Alliance from Babylon 5?
Another thing often ignored utterly and IMO unrealistically in "alt-universe" fiction is that plots where "a single decision changed history" are usually things with a RECENT decision. In some cases it could be such an ancient decision that the universe is unrecognizable. But that makes for a different kind of story than what Alt-U tropes are usually used for.
Submitted for your approval, a look at a possible history of what in our time is called the Beta Quadrant, but that once had a very different name. A name that, if things had gone slightly differently, would still be it's name today. Let us now peer through the mists of time to an event that happened several years before the bombardment of what is called by modern scholars Iconia.
Hehehe.... I'm sure you can guess where this is going. What if Iconia hadn't been reduced to rubble and thus the Iconian civilization still ruled the Beta Quadrant? Now THAT is a point of divergence for you. Nothing silyl like "what if Bob had worn a green tie to work on Aug 23 1972?"
BUT... wouldn't that infinite number of parallel realities also cover realities that DON'T have the same technology? I mean wouldn't that mean that in some alternate reality, we have the UNSC fighting the Covenant, and in another we havethe Earth Alliance from Babylon 5?
The technology might be different due to the possibility of different universes having different laws, but parallel universes allows the Federation fighting the Galactic Empire provided that warp travel, hyperspace, and the Force is possible in that reality. So it is possible that all fiction and [shudder]fan fiction[/shudder] is real in a parallel universe.
This is the premise behind Heinlein's Number Of The Beast. It also featured in The Cat Who Walks Through Walls.
DS9 also dealt with this concept with Benny Russell in Far Beyond the Stars. Currently reading a similar series where people collectively watching a movie and obsessing over it creates parallel universes of that particular movie. So a bunch of people watching Star Wars creates a Star Wars parallel universe. It is similar to the idea used in various fictional novels that human beliefs create god instead of god creates humans.
BUT... wouldn't that infinite number of parallel realities also cover realities that DON'T have the same technology? I mean wouldn't that mean that in some alternate reality, we have the UNSC fighting the Covenant, and in another we havethe Earth Alliance from Babylon 5?
Another thing often ignored utterly and IMO unrealistically in "alt-universe" fiction is that plots where "a single decision changed history" are usually things with a RECENT decision. In some cases it could be such an ancient decision that the universe is unrecognizable. But that makes for a different kind of story than what Alt-U tropes are usually used for.
Submitted for your approval, a look at a possible history of what in our time is called the Beta Quadrant, but that once had a very different name. A name that, if things had gone slightly differently, would still be it's name today. Let us now peer through the mists of time to an event that happened several years before the bombardment of what is called by modern scholars Iconia.
Hehehe.... I'm sure you can guess where this is going. What if Iconia hadn't been reduced to rubble and thus the Iconian civilization still ruled the Beta Quadrant? Now THAT is a point of divergence for you. Nothing silyl like "what if Bob had worn a green tie to work on Aug 23 1972?"
This is probably ignored in most franchises because the farther back you go for points of divergence, the less it looks like the universe you're used to. You might be saying "well duh," but from the point of view of a Hollywood fiction writer this comes with numerous disadvantages:
1. You usually can't draw on the audience's attachment to existing characters, because they're unlikely to have been born. As a corollary, this usually means you can't use your regular actors either.
2. You usually can't draw on the audience's understanding of the politics of the universe.
3. You usually can't draw on iconic designs of costumes, ships, sets, or equipment.
The farther back you go with your point of divergence, the closer you come to basically writing a new IP, which could turn off (less adventurous) audience members, endangering the all-important Corporate Bottom Line. It also takes sustained thought and creativity to pull off, things which the corporate bigwigs don't usually have the patience to let you take the time to do. The more manageable approach in these situations is to write "for want of a nail" stories which focus on a very limited set of differences due to recent divergence, failure of imagination, or just plain author fiat. It makes for a lower-quality story (except perhaps for recent divergence, which is merely unadventurous), but it's easier to make.
Proper alternate history stories are usually confined to their own stand-alone works (or fanfiction). After all, why bother making it part of an existing IP if you have to discard all the elements that form the core of the IP's image?
It is similar to the idea used in various fictional novels that human beliefs create god instead of god creates humans.
Sounds similar to something from the Warhammer universe, where belief is made manifest in the Warp, and godlike entities do exist. Hell... a Chaos God was born because of the hubris of the Eldar, and then most of the Eldar Gods, save 2 or 3... were slaughtered. If the God-Emperor of Mankind dies... its possible a 5th Chaos God will be born from that.
This is probably ignored in most franchises because the farther back you go for points of divergence, the less it looks like the universe you're used to.
Was actually covered in a couple instances I can think of. A Syfy channel movie where they did time travel safari hunts, making sure to stay on some energy path to avoid disturbing the environment, and making sure that the hunted animal dies where it is supposed to. A guy got scared, stepped off, and stepped on a bug. Ripples from that basically altered history so much humans never evolved, and the environment was a lot warmer.
And in an episode of Stargate SG-1, when the team had to travel back in time to try and get a ZPM from Ra in Ancient Egypt... Carter was afraid of just stepping on a bug because of the potential fallout it could cause.
Was actually covered in a couple instances I can think of. A Syfy channel movie where they did time travel safari hunts, making sure to stay on some energy path to avoid disturbing the environment, and making sure that the hunted animal dies where it is supposed to. A guy got scared, stepped off, and stepped on a bug. Ripples from that basically altered history so much humans never evolved, and the environment was a lot warmer.
Probably thinking of A Sound of Thunder which came out in 2005. It was originally a Ray Bradbury short story and has a few differences to the movie. There is no going back in time to fix their mistakes in the short story. Civilization is not on the brink of destruction, but it is altered for the worst. The Simpsons' Treehouse of Horror V segment called Time and Punishment is based on the short story.
Heinlein's multiverse was Pantheistic Multiple Solipsism. The universe had six dimensional axes, of which we can only perceive four at a time (three spatial and one temporal). By rotating among these various frames, one could access six to the sixth to the sixth universes; "nearby" universes, in one's own sheaf, might be only slightly dissimilar (Dr. Jacob Burroughs' first trip was to a universe so like his own that he nearly thought he hadn't succeeded, until he found that the destination universe lacked a letter "J" in their English alphabet), but swapping, say, tau for length can get you to a very different baseline. Turned out that each universe that hosted conscious thought generated "fictons", units of reality, that would create other universes, and the more people loved and wanted to believe in a given universe, the easier it was to find. The kicker was that two universes could create each other, somewhat like the worm Ouroborous endlessly eating its own tail. (The heroes of the story, aboard their tiny craft TRIBBLE Deceiver, made a jump using the Burroughs-Carter Continua Device, and were picked up by the starship Dora, which they recognized from reading the stories about Lazarus Long. Turned out Lazarus also faintly remembered in his youth reading a serialized tale of four people in a universe-skipping car, being hailed by a starship, "to be continued." Each universe appeared to have created the other.)
So by PMS (and no, I don't think the acronym is a coincidence) the universe of Star Trek exists, improbable as that may seem. Fanfic side universes like the Masterverse exist as well, but with fewer minds generating ficta, they aren't as easy to reach.
Heinlein's multiverse was Pantheistic Multiple Solipsism. The universe had six dimensional axes, of which we can only perceive four at a time (three spatial and one temporal). By rotating among these various frames, one could access six to the sixth to the sixth universes; "nearby" universes, in one's own sheaf, might be only slightly dissimilar (Dr. Jacob Burroughs' first trip was to a universe so like his own that he nearly thought he hadn't succeeded, until he found that the destination universe lacked a letter "J" in their English alphabet), but swapping, say, tau for length can get you to a very different baseline. Turned out that each universe that hosted conscious thought generated "fictons", units of reality, that would create other universes, and the more people loved and wanted to believe in a given universe, the easier it was to find. The kicker was that two universes could create each other, somewhat like the worm Ouroborous endlessly eating its own tail. (The heroes of the story, aboard their tiny craft TRIBBLE Deceiver, made a jump using the Burroughs-Carter Continua Device, and were picked up by the starship Dora, which they recognized from reading the stories about Lazarus Long. Turned out Lazarus also faintly remembered in his youth reading a serialized tale of four people in a universe-skipping car, being hailed by a starship, "to be continued." Each universe appeared to have created the other.)
So by PMS (and no, I don't think the acronym is a coincidence) the universe of Star Trek exists, improbable as that may seem. Fanfic side universes like the Masterverse exist as well, but with fewer minds generating ficta, they aren't as easy to reach.
Quick, we should all imagine together that there in some Star Trek like Universe, a Starfleet ship is deciding to get us Star Trek fans over to their universe. If that universe doesn't exist yet, it might come into existence, and if enough of us imagine it together, it should be easier for them to get here!
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Then there is The Long Earth by Terry Pratchett. The vast majority of the series is based around Parallel Earths were people are allowed to travel in two different directions to parallel Earths. The vast majority of parallel Earths don't have sapient life with there only being a few species of sapient life capable of naturally jumping to parallel Earths and only the original Earth where humans existed until they migrated. If I remember correctly, there was only one civilization that developed technology. It had a ton of weird versions of Earth where life developed differently and some where life never developed.
There was also one Parallel Earth that was either destroyed or never formed so it allowed for easy space exploration since there was no Earth to worry about. Just jump from the adjacent Earth in a spacecraft to the non-existent parallel Earth and end up in space with no need to worry about escaping Earth's atmosphere. No need to worry about vibrational tolerances, thermal tolerances, or anything else NASA has to worry about in launching spacecraft to orbit and back. It allows for The Long Mars novel which deals with the same concept as The Long Earth, but on Mars.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
BUT... wouldn't that infinite number of parallel realities also cover realities that DON'T have the same technology? I mean wouldn't that mean that in some alternate reality, we have the UNSC fighting the Covenant, and in another we havethe Earth Alliance from Babylon 5?
Another thing often ignored utterly and IMO unrealistically in "alt-universe" fiction is that plots where "a single decision changed history" are usually things with a RECENT decision. In some cases it could be such an ancient decision that the universe is unrecognizable. But that makes for a different kind of story than what Alt-U tropes are usually used for.
Submitted for your approval, a look at a possible history of what in our time is called the Beta Quadrant, but that once had a very different name. A name that, if things had gone slightly differently, would still be it's name today. Let us now peer through the mists of time to an event that happened several years before the bombardment of what is called by modern scholars Iconia.
Hehehe.... I'm sure you can guess where this is going. What if Iconia hadn't been reduced to rubble and thus the Iconian civilization still ruled the Beta Quadrant? Now THAT is a point of divergence for you. Nothing silyl like "what if Bob had worn a green tie to work on Aug 23 1972?"
This is probably ignored in most franchises because the farther back you go for points of divergence, the less it looks like the universe you're used to. You might be saying "well duh," but from the point of view of a Hollywood fiction writer this comes with numerous disadvantages:
1. You usually can't draw on the audience's attachment to existing characters, because they're unlikely to have been born. As a corollary, this usually means you can't use your regular actors either.
2. You usually can't draw on the audience's understanding of the politics of the universe.
3. You usually can't draw on iconic designs of costumes, ships, sets, or equipment.
The farther back you go with your point of divergence, the closer you come to basically writing a new IP, which could turn off (less adventurous) audience members, endangering the all-important Corporate Bottom Line. It also takes sustained thought and creativity to pull off, things which the corporate bigwigs don't usually have the patience to let you take the time to do. The more manageable approach in these situations is to write "for want of a nail" stories which focus on a very limited set of differences due to recent divergence, failure of imagination, or just plain author fiat. It makes for a lower-quality story (except perhaps for recent divergence, which is merely unadventurous), but it's easier to make.
Proper alternate history stories are usually confined to their own stand-alone works (or fanfiction). After all, why bother making it part of an existing IP if you have to discard all the elements that form the core of the IP's image?
Well that's kinda what I was alluding to when I mentioned "what Alt-U tropes are usually used for". Also it's part of why I did a one paragraph long reference to the Twilight Zone. It's an anthology series that used all sorts of weird stories because they had no reason to make them connected to each other. Yeah Alt-U fiction is typically written with these tropes because of narrative convenience not because it makes sense in-universe. Which is why the TOS Mirror Universe has an alternate Enterprise with mostly the same crew.
One of the old Choose-your-own-adventure books actually had a plot related to researching parallel universes. One possible ending to the story was accidentally opening a portal to a reality similar to the subspace domain the Solanae live in, BUT... much like how the Solanae can't live in normal space, organic life can't exist in that other universe and close proximity to the portal would disintegrate you. Oh and this effect is slowly growing. Yeah, it's one of the bad endings. The scientist guy who was testing the portal device basically says, "well... hopefully the portal will collapse on it's own before all life on Earth is destroyed by it." Since the story only devoted one page to this alternate universe there's not a lot said about it other than it's physical laws being different in what is apparently a bad way.
One interesting thing with Sliders is that the main cast hopped dimensions but rarely encountered alternate versions of themselves. So narratively it was the cast the audience identified with and not the specific universe. For example; in one universe the Earth's geomagnetic field has regions and zones instead of being a single massive magnetic field. So a compass from our universe would point to the nearest "north pole" and thus was far less useful as a navigation aid. It didn't go into great detail about how the history of this world was different, just that it wasn't drastically different. The scientists there had done slightly different research into magnetic fields though.
As far as the MU, the comics did an 'origin' for it that I thought was interesting. They basically had Earth lose the Romulan Wars, and Earth get occupied until resistance arose to toss off the jailers. Then went out on an agenda of "we'll never let anyone do this to us again, we'll do it to them before they can do it to us. Not exactly high concept, but I found it interesting enough. ^_^
And yes, not all fanfiction is bad. Nor all the novels set in the eras. Most of which are essentially licensed fanfiction really anyway. Hell, look at the old books and "Dreadnought" and "Battlestations" were blatant mary sue fics that sadly got the official nod from Pocket Books as a licensee, however...
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
And yes, not all fanfiction is bad. Nor all the novels set in the eras. Most of which are essentially licensed fanfiction really anyway. Hell, look at the old books and "Dreadnought" and "Battlestations" were blatant mary sue fics that sadly got the official nod from Pocket Books as a licensee, however...
I actually liked Lt. Piper. I think the only reason she comes across as a Mary Sue is because its a first person perspective from her POV and doesn't really cover what the main crew does. First Person stories do take a lot of getting used to though.
And yes, not all fanfiction is bad. Nor all the novels set in the eras. Most of which are essentially licensed fanfiction really anyway. Hell, look at the old books and "Dreadnought" and "Battlestations" were blatant mary sue fics that sadly got the official nod from Pocket Books as a licensee, however...
I actually liked Lt. Piper. I think the only reason she comes across as a Mary Sue is because its a first person perspective from her POV and doesn't really cover what the main crew does. First Person stories do take a lot of getting used to though.
Okay, point. It can be fun to read, I'll admit, Dreadnought was my first experience with the novels, and yeah. Not much of the 'main' crew, just making of her own version of it for the second book. ^_^
Okay, point. It can be fun to read, I'll admit, Dreadnought was my first experience with the novels, and yeah. Not much of the 'main' crew, just making of her own version of it for the second book. ^_^
I've only got 3 books that are in 1st person. Two of which are Dreadnought and Battlestations. The third is actually a Star Wars book following... Corran Horn I believe as he starts on the path of becoming a Jedi. If I remember correctly his first lightsaber was built out of scrap parts, including a speeder bike handle.
Comments
I mean, the MU was a product of TOS, not modern Hollywood. It was comic-book quality writing. These days, movies of actual comic books are deeper than that. One movie I can point to that's about the human condition, empowerment, and improvement in our way of thinking is How to Train Your Dragon. It's like Devil in the Dark, but moreso.
...Though I will share your amazement at just how lame so many of the ideas we get from professional writers are. I mean, everybody comes up with lame ideas but part of being a professional writer is being able to discard those lame ideas or put them aside for a while and come back when you've figured out how to refine them into good ideas.
Anyway, Sturgeon's Law.
Yes the cast had a 3 picture deal... this is about ST4 thou. They had a new deal in place for the new movie(s) and it was all announced before 3 was released... big names = more investors. You know how well 3 did... so studio went back and asked for pay cuts... personally I think all actors are overpaid, but a deal is a deal and should be honored. course they could always pull an Iron Man 2 and recast.
Oh, wait, they did that with ID already.
My character Tsin'xing
They did keep many of the elements that were first introduced with TOS, like assassination can lead to promotion on a ship, but it was done in a way that really did make you feel that this is a window into the really dark places in humans. We ARE capable of this kind of evil. We just choose not to.
But Parallels didn't follow the idea that every decision creates a new timeline where a different choice was made. From Data in the Parallels episode, "There is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities." So if there is an infinite number of parallel universes, then every possible decision would be made in a parallel universe. All of the parallel universes would be created at the same time as our universe and not created due to someone deciding to drink Pepsi instead of Coke.
Which doesn't change the fact that there would be an infinite number of points of divergence, which was the main, central point of my post.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
It doesn't change the conclusion, but it does change that there is an infinite number of points of divergence. Divergence has to be originally connected in some way while an infinite number of parallel universe means that there was no connection. The only reason why two parallel universes are identical is due to probability.
The technology might be different due to the possibility of different universes having different laws, but parallel universes allows the Federation fighting the Galactic Empire provided that warp travel, hyperspace, and the Force is possible in that reality. So it is possible that all fiction and [shudder]fan fiction[/shudder] is real in a parallel universe.
But the question arises: why would different universes have different laws?
Also, don't diss fanfiction! Most of it is terrible, yes, but most of everything is terrible. It's just as possible to write outstanding fanfiction as it is to write outstanding original fiction.
This is the premise behind Heinlein's Number Of The Beast. It also featured in The Cat Who Walks Through Walls.
Which brings us to: Another thing often ignored utterly and IMO unrealistically in "alt-universe" fiction is that plots where "a single decision changed history" are usually things with a RECENT decision. In some cases it could be such an ancient decision that the universe is unrecognizable. But that makes for a different kind of story than what Alt-U tropes are usually used for.
Submitted for your approval, a look at a possible history of what in our time is called the Beta Quadrant, but that once had a very different name. A name that, if things had gone slightly differently, would still be it's name today. Let us now peer through the mists of time to an event that happened several years before the bombardment of what is called by modern scholars Iconia.
Hehehe.... I'm sure you can guess where this is going. What if Iconia hadn't been reduced to rubble and thus the Iconian civilization still ruled the Beta Quadrant?
My character Tsin'xing
DS9 also dealt with this concept with Benny Russell in Far Beyond the Stars. Currently reading a similar series where people collectively watching a movie and obsessing over it creates parallel universes of that particular movie. So a bunch of people watching Star Wars creates a Star Wars parallel universe. It is similar to the idea used in various fictional novels that human beliefs create god instead of god creates humans.
This is probably ignored in most franchises because the farther back you go for points of divergence, the less it looks like the universe you're used to. You might be saying "well duh," but from the point of view of a Hollywood fiction writer this comes with numerous disadvantages:
1. You usually can't draw on the audience's attachment to existing characters, because they're unlikely to have been born. As a corollary, this usually means you can't use your regular actors either.
2. You usually can't draw on the audience's understanding of the politics of the universe.
3. You usually can't draw on iconic designs of costumes, ships, sets, or equipment.
The farther back you go with your point of divergence, the closer you come to basically writing a new IP, which could turn off (less adventurous) audience members, endangering the all-important Corporate Bottom Line. It also takes sustained thought and creativity to pull off, things which the corporate bigwigs don't usually have the patience to let you take the time to do. The more manageable approach in these situations is to write "for want of a nail" stories which focus on a very limited set of differences due to recent divergence, failure of imagination, or just plain author fiat. It makes for a lower-quality story (except perhaps for recent divergence, which is merely unadventurous), but it's easier to make.
Proper alternate history stories are usually confined to their own stand-alone works (or fanfiction). After all, why bother making it part of an existing IP if you have to discard all the elements that form the core of the IP's image?
Sounds similar to something from the Warhammer universe, where belief is made manifest in the Warp, and godlike entities do exist. Hell... a Chaos God was born because of the hubris of the Eldar, and then most of the Eldar Gods, save 2 or 3... were slaughtered. If the God-Emperor of Mankind dies... its possible a 5th Chaos God will be born from that.
Was actually covered in a couple instances I can think of. A Syfy channel movie where they did time travel safari hunts, making sure to stay on some energy path to avoid disturbing the environment, and making sure that the hunted animal dies where it is supposed to. A guy got scared, stepped off, and stepped on a bug. Ripples from that basically altered history so much humans never evolved, and the environment was a lot warmer.
And in an episode of Stargate SG-1, when the team had to travel back in time to try and get a ZPM from Ra in Ancient Egypt... Carter was afraid of just stepping on a bug because of the potential fallout it could cause.
Probably thinking of A Sound of Thunder which came out in 2005. It was originally a Ray Bradbury short story and has a few differences to the movie. There is no going back in time to fix their mistakes in the short story. Civilization is not on the brink of destruction, but it is altered for the worst. The Simpsons' Treehouse of Horror V segment called Time and Punishment is based on the short story.
So by PMS (and no, I don't think the acronym is a coincidence) the universe of Star Trek exists, improbable as that may seem. Fanfic side universes like the Masterverse exist as well, but with fewer minds generating ficta, they aren't as easy to reach.
Quick, we should all imagine together that there in some Star Trek like Universe, a Starfleet ship is deciding to get us Star Trek fans over to their universe. If that universe doesn't exist yet, it might come into existence, and if enough of us imagine it together, it should be easier for them to get here!
Only one was Star Trek though.
I REALLY need to get back into writing... got three potential projects in mind but no idea which one to work on.
There was also one Parallel Earth that was either destroyed or never formed so it allowed for easy space exploration since there was no Earth to worry about. Just jump from the adjacent Earth in a spacecraft to the non-existent parallel Earth and end up in space with no need to worry about escaping Earth's atmosphere. No need to worry about vibrational tolerances, thermal tolerances, or anything else NASA has to worry about in launching spacecraft to orbit and back. It allows for The Long Mars novel which deals with the same concept as The Long Earth, but on Mars.
oh dog...that means OUR insanity exists too! *runs away screaming in terror*
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
One of the old Choose-your-own-adventure books actually had a plot related to researching parallel universes. One possible ending to the story was accidentally opening a portal to a reality similar to the subspace domain the Solanae live in, BUT... much like how the Solanae can't live in normal space, organic life can't exist in that other universe and close proximity to the portal would disintegrate you. Oh and this effect is slowly growing. Yeah, it's one of the bad endings. The scientist guy who was testing the portal device basically says, "well... hopefully the portal will collapse on it's own before all life on Earth is destroyed by it." Since the story only devoted one page to this alternate universe there's not a lot said about it other than it's physical laws being different in what is apparently a bad way.
One interesting thing with Sliders is that the main cast hopped dimensions but rarely encountered alternate versions of themselves. So narratively it was the cast the audience identified with and not the specific universe. For example; in one universe the Earth's geomagnetic field has regions and zones instead of being a single massive magnetic field. So a compass from our universe would point to the nearest "north pole" and thus was far less useful as a navigation aid. It didn't go into great detail about how the history of this world was different, just that it wasn't drastically different. The scientists there had done slightly different research into magnetic fields though.
My character Tsin'xing
And yes, not all fanfiction is bad. Nor all the novels set in the eras. Most of which are essentially licensed fanfiction really anyway. Hell, look at the old books and "Dreadnought" and "Battlestations" were blatant mary sue fics that sadly got the official nod from Pocket Books as a licensee, however...
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I actually liked Lt. Piper. I think the only reason she comes across as a Mary Sue is because its a first person perspective from her POV and doesn't really cover what the main crew does. First Person stories do take a lot of getting used to though.
MUA HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Okay, point. It can be fun to read, I'll admit, Dreadnought was my first experience with the novels, and yeah. Not much of the 'main' crew, just making of her own version of it for the second book. ^_^
I've only got 3 books that are in 1st person. Two of which are Dreadnought and Battlestations. The third is actually a Star Wars book following... Corran Horn I believe as he starts on the path of becoming a Jedi. If I remember correctly his first lightsaber was built out of scrap parts, including a speeder bike handle.