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[PC] Personal Endeavors!

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  • voodoopokeyvoodoopokey Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    Well, I got "lucky": yesterday's hard endeavor was to complete ONE Borg STF (Red Alert excluded). Game said all Borg STFs were fair game.

    Take a wild guess about what really happened.

    Conduit: NOPE.
    Hive Onslaught: NOPE.
    Red alert just because why the hell not at this point: NOPE.

    I hope I won't get one broken endeavor every week at best.

    Its the counter that is wrong... for green level its 0/1, for blue its 0/3 (which originally read 0/1 until you did all three) and for red level its 0/5 or 0/6 I think, which has the same issue that blue level did, reading 0/1 until you do all of them... and red alerts don't count.

    Compared to most red level PEs, the TFO one takes a whole lot of time, often requiring more TFOs than exist for that faction type, so you can't accomplish it without doubling up on some.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,919 Arc User
    I have a personal Endeavor called "Deal Disruptor Damage (Ground)". It shows completed.

    I did NO content where I was using energy weapons, at all. I have only been doing Omega games and DOFFing along the way. I have not found the Endeavor reward box anywhere....so obviously, a different type of false indication.

    And....just switched to the Federation side (Ferengi) and it cleared...though I switched through 3 KDF characters before this.

    Note: The Ferengi is the only one who did content over the weekend and completed a couple of odd ball Endeavor requirements. The two new Captain Killy missions....but I did those on Saturday and dropped one part way when Torp Damage Personal Endeavor completed. The Klingon Engineer played Dabo (Drozana, she was there for Omegas) to complete a different Personal Endeavor on Sunday.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,836 Arc User
    edited January 28
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    guriphu wrote: »
    I would like these a lot more if there was a way to share them with a team. As they are, it completely fragments everyone into individual grind. The old endeavors brought people together, this pushes us to be alone.
    Yup, I've been saying exactly this: The system actively destroys social cohesion: you can't play with your friends because none of your friends are going to share your objectives. What's more, a lot of these objectives are fundamentally antisocial, and I don't mean the commonly misused way of "non-social". I mean they're actively antisocial: You're encouraged to pursue selfish objectives that are detrimental to the now total strangers you're pursuing this in the presence of. If my goal is to "kill 5 badguys", and these badguys are not found anywhere but this one specific narrow subset of the queues, I'm forced to attend a queue that I don't really want to be in, but not for purposes of actually completing the queue, but simply to kill those 5 guys at the very start of the mission, after which I must now move on to the next objective because hanging around for 20 minutes in a queue in which I have nothing to gain is a complete waste of valuable time. Perhaps shooting those enemies is actually counterproductive to the mission on top, so, I'm gonna TRIBBLE up your queue and then ditch you. I got mine, you're on your own, pal.

    This is not really the kind of thing the system should be encouraging, and in some cases, forcing, players to do. There is no cooperation in these endeavors, and, in fact, the exact opposite: Other players are at best inconveniences and at worst actively hostile to your goals by stealing your kills.

    It's a firmly antisocial system that is going to degrade social cohesion and make players hate each other even more.

    If this is your attitude, then that's a failing on your part, not the system. No system of play can counteract players being a TRIBBLE.
    It is not a problem with player attitude it’s a flaw in the way the system is designed. A far better design would be able to pick out of a selection of easy, medium, hard TFO endeavours and be able to do them as a group with friends and all work together towards the same endeavour. That would improve social cohesion and give a more positive play experience. Perhaps something like a team of friends could queue up for a random TFO or pick out of 3 random choices with the same endeavours requirement attached to everyone in the team. Still keep the current options so solo players can team up with Randoms.

    Or better yet make an Epic endeavour that promotes and is designed around being social and playing with your friends.

    I have directly experienced the degrade in social cohesion from way current endeavour system has been designed. It’s not a failing with the players it’s the failing in the system design. I agree with Ruinthefun certain parts of endeavours actively breaks down social cohesion. That's not to say I think endeavour should go away the overall idea is great. But its clear the endeavour system has been badly implanted in more ways then one. The actual play experience for me has been pretty horrible so far. But it has a lot of possibility with tweaks of being one of the best features in game.

  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,919 Arc User
    edited January 28
    I see what you guys mean....I am definitely only doing what I need to get by, even as I am doing Solo content. I will even dump a mission midway because I completed what I wanted (torpedo damage, see my previous post).

    I can't imagine that is good in a team environment like a TFO.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    guriphu wrote: »
    I would like these a lot more if there was a way to share them with a team. As they are, it completely fragments everyone into individual grind. The old endeavors brought people together, this pushes us to be alone.
    Yup, I've been saying exactly this: The system actively destroys social cohesion: you can't play with your friends because none of your friends are going to share your objectives. What's more, a lot of these objectives are fundamentally antisocial, and I don't mean the commonly misused way of "non-social". I mean they're actively antisocial: You're encouraged to pursue selfish objectives that are detrimental to the now total strangers you're pursuing this in the presence of. If my goal is to "kill 5 badguys", and these badguys are not found anywhere but this one specific narrow subset of the queues, I'm forced to attend a queue that I don't really want to be in, but not for purposes of actually completing the queue, but simply to kill those 5 guys at the very start of the mission, after which I must now move on to the next objective because hanging around for 20 minutes in a queue in which I have nothing to gain is a complete waste of valuable time. Perhaps shooting those enemies is actually counterproductive to the mission on top, so, I'm gonna TRIBBLE up your queue and then ditch you. I got mine, you're on your own, pal.

    This is not really the kind of thing the system should be encouraging, and in some cases, forcing, players to do. There is no cooperation in these endeavors, and, in fact, the exact opposite: Other players are at best inconveniences and at worst actively hostile to your goals by stealing your kills.

    It's a firmly antisocial system that is going to degrade social cohesion and make players hate each other even more.

    If this is your attitude, then that's a failing on your part, not the system. No system of play can counteract players being a TRIBBLE.
    It is not a problem with player attitude it’s a flaw in the way the system is designed. A far better design would be able to pick out of a selection of easy, medium, hard TFO endeavours and be able to do them as a group with friends and all work together towards the same endeavour. That would improve social cohesion and give a more positive play experience. Perhaps something like a team of friends could queue up for a random TFO or pick out of 3 random choices with the same endeavours requirement attached to everyone in the team. Still keep the current options so solo players can team up with Randoms.

    Or better yet make an Epic endeavour that promotes and is designed around being social and playing with your friends.

    I have directly experienced the degrade in social cohesion from way current endeavour system has been designed. It’s not a failing with the players it’s the failing in the system design. I agree with Ruinthefun certain parts of endeavours actively breaks down social cohesion. That's not to say I think endeavour should go away the overall idea is great. But its clear the endeavour system has been badly implanted in more ways then one. The actual play experience for me has been pretty horrible so far. But it has a lot of possibility with tweaks of being one of the best features in game.

    That is just baddmoonrizin trolling & attacking a player ... the type of stuff that is suppose to be monitored by a forum community manager I suppose. Our earned progress should be allowed to carry-over in this PE but perhaps it is more difficult for them to program. Cryptic wouldn't want us to be playing yet not progressing would they? The: Easy, Medium, & Hard definitely needs some more calibration & balance. While they're at it re-verify that all PE missions that pop are able to be completed within their own descriptions because that's not happening. Speaking of "tribble" isn't that where a lot of these actions should've been tested & vetted before going active?
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 2,910 Arc User
    Well, I got "lucky": yesterday's hard endeavor was to complete ONE Borg STF (Red Alert excluded). Game said all Borg STFs were fair game.

    Take a wild guess about what really happened.

    Conduit: NOPE.
    Hive Onslaught: NOPE.
    Red alert just because why the hell not at this point: NOPE.

    I hope I won't get one broken endeavor every week at best.

    Its the counter that is wrong... for green level its 0/1, for blue its 0/3 (which originally read 0/1 until you did all three) and for red level its 0/5 or 0/6 I think, which has the same issue that blue level did, reading 0/1 until you do all of them... and red alerts don't count.

    Compared to most red level PEs, the TFO one takes a whole lot of time, often requiring more TFOs than exist for that faction type, so you can't accomplish it without doubling up on some.

    I have done Hard/Red Endeavors and it did not take more than 2... I do em on Advanced thou for the Elite Marks.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,537 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    guriphu wrote: »
    I would like these a lot more if there was a way to share them with a team. As they are, it completely fragments everyone into individual grind. The old endeavors brought people together, this pushes us to be alone.
    Yup, I've been saying exactly this: The system actively destroys social cohesion: you can't play with your friends because none of your friends are going to share your objectives. What's more, a lot of these objectives are fundamentally antisocial, and I don't mean the commonly misused way of "non-social". I mean they're actively antisocial: You're encouraged to pursue selfish objectives that are detrimental to the now total strangers you're pursuing this in the presence of. If my goal is to "kill 5 badguys", and these badguys are not found anywhere but this one specific narrow subset of the queues, I'm forced to attend a queue that I don't really want to be in, but not for purposes of actually completing the queue, but simply to kill those 5 guys at the very start of the mission, after which I must now move on to the next objective because hanging around for 20 minutes in a queue in which I have nothing to gain is a complete waste of valuable time. Perhaps shooting those enemies is actually counterproductive to the mission on top, so, I'm gonna TRIBBLE up your queue and then ditch you. I got mine, you're on your own, pal.

    This is not really the kind of thing the system should be encouraging, and in some cases, forcing, players to do. There is no cooperation in these endeavors, and, in fact, the exact opposite: Other players are at best inconveniences and at worst actively hostile to your goals by stealing your kills.

    It's a firmly antisocial system that is going to degrade social cohesion and make players hate each other even more.

    If this is your attitude, then that's a failing on your part, not the system. No system of play can counteract players being a TRIBBLE.
    It is not a problem with player attitude it’s a flaw in the way the system is designed. A far better design would be able to pick out of a selection of easy, medium, hard TFO endeavours and be able to do them as a group with friends and all work together towards the same endeavour. That would improve social cohesion and give a more positive play experience. Perhaps something like a team of friends could queue up for a random TFO or pick out of 3 random choices with the same endeavours requirement attached to everyone in the team. Still keep the current options so solo players can team up with Randoms.

    Or better yet make an Epic endeavour that promotes and is designed around being social and playing with your friends.

    I have directly experienced the degrade in social cohesion from way current endeavour system has been designed. It’s not a failing with the players it’s the failing in the system design. I agree with Ruinthefun certain parts of endeavours actively breaks down social cohesion. That's not to say I think endeavour should go away the overall idea is great. But its clear the endeavour system has been badly implanted in more ways then one. The actual play experience for me has been pretty horrible so far. But it has a lot of possibility with tweaks of being one of the best features in game.
    We HAD an Epic system that was designed around being social and playing with your friends. It was called the Fleet Holdings system and it greatly promoted fleetmates to play together, because the only way to get fleet marks was to play content dedicated for that purpose. People ruined it by whining until they turned the marks from a precious resource you earned with your buddies to ubiquitous garbage people couldn't dump fast enough (until they put in an otherwise useless project with the sole purpose of dumping marks).

    The play experience for me has been overwhelmingly positive. This system has finally given me a reason to play something other than Admiralty and the token-once-a-day events. Today I got to play Undine Infiltration for, like, the first time ever to get undine ground kills for the endo and I wasn't even upset I didn't get enough kills and had to finish it in the Foundry, because yeah, I hadn't used the Foundry in ages, either. Having any kind of pick-your-own mechanic would ruin that just like pick-your-own marks ruined the reps, because the only rational choice would be 3 copies of the easiest bunk there is, every day.

    And of course, real friends would be quite capable of doing Endeavors together, even if they all have different ones. "You need destructable torpedoes so let's pop into PvP I'll chuck some at you, and then you can shoot me a bit so I can do shield healing, and then we'll go do your ground phaser damage and my borg kills on Defera..." That is, if the Endeavors weren't all so effin easy the only help anyone realistically might need is being told where the fastest farming spot is.

    As for people leaving queues after getting their endos, that should indeed be blocked if it becomes a thing. I would suggest holding the Endeavor until the mission is over, so that if you leave early the game can deny your progress.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,836 Arc User
    edited January 28
    warpangel wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    guriphu wrote: »
    I would like these a lot more if there was a way to share them with a team. As they are, it completely fragments everyone into individual grind. The old endeavors brought people together, this pushes us to be alone.
    Yup, I've been saying exactly this: The system actively destroys social cohesion: you can't play with your friends because none of your friends are going to share your objectives. What's more, a lot of these objectives are fundamentally antisocial, and I don't mean the commonly misused way of "non-social". I mean they're actively antisocial: You're encouraged to pursue selfish objectives that are detrimental to the now total strangers you're pursuing this in the presence of. If my goal is to "kill 5 badguys", and these badguys are not found anywhere but this one specific narrow subset of the queues, I'm forced to attend a queue that I don't really want to be in, but not for purposes of actually completing the queue, but simply to kill those 5 guys at the very start of the mission, after which I must now move on to the next objective because hanging around for 20 minutes in a queue in which I have nothing to gain is a complete waste of valuable time. Perhaps shooting those enemies is actually counterproductive to the mission on top, so, I'm gonna TRIBBLE up your queue and then ditch you. I got mine, you're on your own, pal.

    This is not really the kind of thing the system should be encouraging, and in some cases, forcing, players to do. There is no cooperation in these endeavors, and, in fact, the exact opposite: Other players are at best inconveniences and at worst actively hostile to your goals by stealing your kills.

    It's a firmly antisocial system that is going to degrade social cohesion and make players hate each other even more.

    If this is your attitude, then that's a failing on your part, not the system. No system of play can counteract players being a TRIBBLE.
    It is not a problem with player attitude it’s a flaw in the way the system is designed. A far better design would be able to pick out of a selection of easy, medium, hard TFO endeavours and be able to do them as a group with friends and all work together towards the same endeavour. That would improve social cohesion and give a more positive play experience. Perhaps something like a team of friends could queue up for a random TFO or pick out of 3 random choices with the same endeavours requirement attached to everyone in the team. Still keep the current options so solo players can team up with Randoms.

    Or better yet make an Epic endeavour that promotes and is designed around being social and playing with your friends.

    I have directly experienced the degrade in social cohesion from way current endeavour system has been designed. It’s not a failing with the players it’s the failing in the system design. I agree with Ruinthefun certain parts of endeavours actively breaks down social cohesion. That's not to say I think endeavour should go away the overall idea is great. But its clear the endeavour system has been badly implanted in more ways then one. The actual play experience for me has been pretty horrible so far. But it has a lot of possibility with tweaks of being one of the best features in game.
    We HAD an Epic system that was designed around being social and playing with your friends. It was called the Fleet Holdings system and it greatly promoted fleetmates to play together, because the only way to get fleet marks was to play content dedicated for that purpose. People ruined it by whining until they turned the marks from a precious resource you earned with your buddies to ubiquitous garbage people couldn't dump fast enough (until they put in an otherwise useless project with the sole purpose of dumping marks).

    The play experience for me has been overwhelmingly positive. This system has finally given me a reason to play something other than Admiralty and the token-once-a-day events. Today I got to play Undine Infiltration for, like, the first time ever to get undine ground kills for the endo and I wasn't even upset I didn't get enough kills and had to finish it in the Foundry, because yeah, I hadn't used the Foundry in ages, either. Having any kind of pick-your-own mechanic would ruin that just like pick-your-own marks ruined the reps, because the only rational choice would be 3 copies of the easiest bunk there is, every day.

    And of course, real friends would be quite capable of doing Endeavors together, even if they all have different ones. "You need destructable torpedoes so let's pop into PvP I'll chuck some at you, and then you can shoot me a bit so I can do shield healing, and then we'll go do your ground phaser damage and my borg kills on Defera..." That is, if the Endeavors weren't all so effin easy the only help anyone realistically might need is being told where the fastest farming spot is.

    As for people leaving queues after getting their endos, that should indeed be blocked if it becomes a thing. I would suggest holding the Endeavor until the mission is over, so that if you leave early the game can deny your progress.
    For me it was a bunch of x damage which I can accidently complete without thinking about it. Then it was a wasted 2+ hours trying and failing to get the Lukari TFOs before given up as it just was not working. Then it was a “Defeat Gorn on Nimbus” which was incorrectly labeled as none of the Gorn I was killing on Nimus was counting. When I figured out what it meant it turned out to be go to a tiny area of the map and kill steal from other players. Hardly a friendly social thing to do.

    I do agree that leaving a group queue early after getting an endeavor is wrong and I can see how after a rebalance and some fix’s it could be overwhelmingly positive. It just is not right now from my experience of things being broken, mislabelled or just not balanced correctly like the Destroy Dreadnaughts one. I don’t mind that one but it should offer a way different XP reward, how is killing a mass of Dreadnaughts remotely the same as shooting weapon for 60 seconds. I still want to see real hard Endeavors. We need an Epic level of Endeavors.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Then it was a wasted 2+ hours trying and failing to get the Lukari TFOs before given up as it just was not working.
    I got the Lukari TFO endeavor today, got it after completing Gravity Kills once, no problems.

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,537 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    guriphu wrote: »
    I would like these a lot more if there was a way to share them with a team. As they are, it completely fragments everyone into individual grind. The old endeavors brought people together, this pushes us to be alone.
    Yup, I've been saying exactly this: The system actively destroys social cohesion: you can't play with your friends because none of your friends are going to share your objectives. What's more, a lot of these objectives are fundamentally antisocial, and I don't mean the commonly misused way of "non-social". I mean they're actively antisocial: You're encouraged to pursue selfish objectives that are detrimental to the now total strangers you're pursuing this in the presence of. If my goal is to "kill 5 badguys", and these badguys are not found anywhere but this one specific narrow subset of the queues, I'm forced to attend a queue that I don't really want to be in, but not for purposes of actually completing the queue, but simply to kill those 5 guys at the very start of the mission, after which I must now move on to the next objective because hanging around for 20 minutes in a queue in which I have nothing to gain is a complete waste of valuable time. Perhaps shooting those enemies is actually counterproductive to the mission on top, so, I'm gonna TRIBBLE up your queue and then ditch you. I got mine, you're on your own, pal.

    This is not really the kind of thing the system should be encouraging, and in some cases, forcing, players to do. There is no cooperation in these endeavors, and, in fact, the exact opposite: Other players are at best inconveniences and at worst actively hostile to your goals by stealing your kills.

    It's a firmly antisocial system that is going to degrade social cohesion and make players hate each other even more.

    If this is your attitude, then that's a failing on your part, not the system. No system of play can counteract players being a TRIBBLE.
    It is not a problem with player attitude it’s a flaw in the way the system is designed. A far better design would be able to pick out of a selection of easy, medium, hard TFO endeavours and be able to do them as a group with friends and all work together towards the same endeavour. That would improve social cohesion and give a more positive play experience. Perhaps something like a team of friends could queue up for a random TFO or pick out of 3 random choices with the same endeavours requirement attached to everyone in the team. Still keep the current options so solo players can team up with Randoms.

    Or better yet make an Epic endeavour that promotes and is designed around being social and playing with your friends.

    I have directly experienced the degrade in social cohesion from way current endeavour system has been designed. It’s not a failing with the players it’s the failing in the system design. I agree with Ruinthefun certain parts of endeavours actively breaks down social cohesion. That's not to say I think endeavour should go away the overall idea is great. But its clear the endeavour system has been badly implanted in more ways then one. The actual play experience for me has been pretty horrible so far. But it has a lot of possibility with tweaks of being one of the best features in game.
    We HAD an Epic system that was designed around being social and playing with your friends. It was called the Fleet Holdings system and it greatly promoted fleetmates to play together, because the only way to get fleet marks was to play content dedicated for that purpose. People ruined it by whining until they turned the marks from a precious resource you earned with your buddies to ubiquitous garbage people couldn't dump fast enough (until they put in an otherwise useless project with the sole purpose of dumping marks).

    The play experience for me has been overwhelmingly positive. This system has finally given me a reason to play something other than Admiralty and the token-once-a-day events. Today I got to play Undine Infiltration for, like, the first time ever to get undine ground kills for the endo and I wasn't even upset I didn't get enough kills and had to finish it in the Foundry, because yeah, I hadn't used the Foundry in ages, either. Having any kind of pick-your-own mechanic would ruin that just like pick-your-own marks ruined the reps, because the only rational choice would be 3 copies of the easiest bunk there is, every day.

    And of course, real friends would be quite capable of doing Endeavors together, even if they all have different ones. "You need destructable torpedoes so let's pop into PvP I'll chuck some at you, and then you can shoot me a bit so I can do shield healing, and then we'll go do your ground phaser damage and my borg kills on Defera..." That is, if the Endeavors weren't all so effin easy the only help anyone realistically might need is being told where the fastest farming spot is.

    As for people leaving queues after getting their endos, that should indeed be blocked if it becomes a thing. I would suggest holding the Endeavor until the mission is over, so that if you leave early the game can deny your progress.
    For me it was a bunch of x damage which I can accidently complete without thinking about it. Then it was a wasted 2+ hours trying and failing to get the Lukari TFOs before given up as it just was not working. Then it was a “Defeat Gorn on Nimbus” which was incorrectly labeled as none of the Gorn I was killing on Nimus was counting. When I figured out what it meant it turned out to be go to a tiny area of the map and kill steal from other players. Hardly a friendly social thing to do.
    Most of the damage ones are indeed easy, but the list includes unusual damage types that most people are unlikely to get by accident (like Physical in space). I got my lukari TFO easy just by queueing to all of them, but I suppose Dranuur Gauntlet is the safe bet if you're worried about sucky pug teams, since it's autowin. Though I've never seen GKA or TFA take more than 20 minutes, either. I have no idea what you mean by "kill steal."

    My toughest so far was shield healing on ground, for which I had to find out which abilities counted as "healing" vs "regeneration." For gameplay purposes these are of course the same, but the endo only counts "healing." The ground shields' tendency to instantly heal regenerate to full if you're not being constantly shot was also rather counterproductive for this objective.
    I do agree that leaving a group queue early after getting an endeavor is wrong and I can see how after a rebalance and some fix’s it could be overwhelmingly positive. It just is not right now from my experience of things being broken, mislabelled or just not balanced correctly like the Destroy Dreadnaughts one. I don’t mind that one but it should offer a way different XP reward, how is killing a mass of Dreadnaughts remotely the same as shooting weapon for 60 seconds. I still want to see real hard Endeavors. We need an Epic level of Endeavors.
    None of mine have been mislabeled so far, but I have heard others mention the longer description in the in progress missions menu gives additional details, like hard endos not counting normals for TFO completion, that they really should include or at least link to in the main objective. It still isn't anywhere near as ambiguous or just plain wrong as some of the original endeavors used to be (like the infamous killing a tholian captain on Nukara). They'll get the descriptions fixed later.

    And yes, I agree on needing harder tiers.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,865 Community Moderator
    If your attitude is, "TRIBBLE you guys, I got mine!" and you bail on your team, then you're being a TRIBBLE, and yes, that is on you, not the system. No system of play is going to convince a TRIBBLE to not act like a TRIBBLE.
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,919 Arc User
    edited January 28
    LOL!! Yeah, because: there are no TRIBBLE playing this game at all.

    "I am leaving the rTFO if it is Ground", "I will do minimal rounds on Sompek or Kobayashi Maru", "AFK in Mirror Invasion or the Breach", etc.

    You know this from being the forum moderator....the prevailing attitude is "I will do what I want, do not care about you, and I will moan and groan because my way is the only way".

    Which is why I stopped all the team sports in this game. It is fake. Which is why them pushing the Endeavor goals to be met by solo work, is fine by me!

    But I understand, now, what they are talking about.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,836 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Then it was a wasted 2+ hours trying and failing to get the Lukari TFOs before given up as it just was not working.
    I got the Lukari TFO endeavor today, got it after completing Gravity Kills once, no problems.
    I didn't try that one but I did 5 runs over the others like Beach Assault and Gauntlet and I couldn't get it to complete. 4 runs with pugs and 1 run from the DPS channel we passed all the missions but it wouldn’t trigger.


    “If your attitude is, "TRIBBLE you guys, I got mine!" and you bail on your team, then you're being a TRIBBLE, and yes, that is on you, not the system. No system of play is going to convince a TRIBBLE to not act like a TRIBBLE.”
    While that bit is player attitude and I agree it’s wrong it doesn’t invalidate the rest of the post about how parts of the Endeavour system are causing a degrade in social cohesion due to bad design. Which has nothing to do with player attitude.


    warpangel wrote: »
    “but the list includes unusual damage types that most people are unlikely to get by accident (like Physical in space).”
    I guess it can be unusual for some people. For me I have Temporal Operative spec so I get that by accident no matter what weapon I use. The biggest problem with Physical in space is it lists none physical powers like Gravity Well as a way to complete it, yet another bug. Thinking about it nearly all the problems I have with Endeavours are incorrect text telling you the wrong information. A few more patches and this system is going to be great.


    warpangel wrote: »
    “I have no idea what you mean by "kill steal."”
    The Nimbus Endeavour incorrectly says kill Gorn on Nimbus. I first beamed down and there was a mass of people at the main gate I assume waiting for the rare beam in of Gorn. It was a race to kill steal to get the Endeavour. When it’s got a high player population you have to kill before other players stopping them getting the Endeavour or they stop you hence kill steal. So I thought I will be friendly and move to a quite area. Only after 30+mins of wondering around from the prisons to the crashed ships and other areas it turned out none of the Nimbus Gorn counted despite the text saying kill Gorn on Nimbus. The only other area I could find that counted was Gorn Canyon which was a race to kill steal from other players if you wanted to get anything. With the x damage ones I always make a private solo queue but I couldn’t find a way to do the Nimbus one without having a negative impact on other players likewise other players where trying to steal my kills because it was the only way to get the Endeavour. While I had problems on Nimbus, Borg kills on Defera was good because the entire map counted so players could avoid kill stealing and spread around. Nimbus needs fixing to work on the entire map.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 2,910 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    The Nimbus Endeavour incorrectly says kill Gorn on Nimbus. I first beamed down and there was a mass of people at the main gate I assume waiting for the rare beam in of Gorn. It was a race to kill steal to get the Endeavour. When it’s got a high player population you have to kill before other players stopping them getting the Endeavour or they stop you hence kill steal. So I thought I will be friendly and move to a quite area. Only after 30+mins of wondering around from the prisons to the crashed ships and other areas it turned out none of the Nimbus Gorn counted despite the text saying kill Gorn on Nimbus. The only other area I could find that counted was Gorn Canyon which was a race to kill steal from other players if you wanted to get anything. With the x damage ones I always make a private solo queue but I couldn’t find a way to do the Nimbus one without having a negative impact on other players likewise other players where trying to steal my kills because it was the only way to get the Endeavour. While I had problems on Nimbus, Borg kills on Defera was good because the entire map counted so players could avoid kill stealing and spread around. Nimbus needs fixing to work on the entire map.

    Umm The boss that spawns near beam in is not a Gorn... it's a Nausican. Only a finate number of gorn thugs spawn before boss thou. For Gorns on Nimbus... go to the Canyon where the "Gorn" mission is located at. That was the 1st thing that popped to mind, didnt even bother to read the description. Course there are other gorns on Nimbus but I never bothered going to those locations... Hideout up mountains.
  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,696 Arc User
    You go to the canyon because that is where the majority of Gorn spawn on nimbus. The only other place that has any significant amount is the Stronghold approach, and they're maybe 25% of the things that spawn there, at best. The approach is a larger area, but there's no way that it has more than 4 times the spawns of the canyon.
    Before you say that nobody asked for a feature, remember that an online game is not a democracy.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,080 Arc User
    edited January 30
    I picked up the 'Fistful of Gorn' Mission and went to the canyon. You don't need it as they spawn there all the time. Another group may have gotten there before you so it may be empty for a few minutes.
    Post edited by ltminns on
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,903 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    I see what you guys mean....I am definitely only doing what I need to get by, even as I am doing Solo content. I will even dump a mission midway because I completed what I wanted (torpedo damage, see my previous post).

    I can't imagine that is good in a team environment like a TFO.
    Their explanations of this leave me wondering how many people they expect to actually behave that way.

    Joining a ground TFO because you need to deal disruptor damage on ground. Sure, makes sense. Beaming out midway because you got your endeavor done is so illogical I don't think most people would do it. Sure you can say "I was just here for the endeavor", but, why give up the TFO completion rewards in the process?
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    “I have no idea what you mean by "kill steal."”
    The Nimbus Endeavour incorrectly says kill Gorn on Nimbus. I first beamed down and there was a mass of people at the main gate I assume waiting for the rare beam in of Gorn. It was a race to kill steal to get the Endeavour. When it’s got a high player population you have to kill before other players stopping them getting the Endeavour or they stop you hence kill steal. So I thought I will be friendly and move to a quite area. Only after 30+mins of wondering around from the prisons to the crashed ships and other areas it turned out none of the Nimbus Gorn counted despite the text saying kill Gorn on Nimbus. The only other area I could find that counted was Gorn Canyon which was a race to kill steal from other players if you wanted to get anything. With the x damage ones I always make a private solo queue but I couldn’t find a way to do the Nimbus one without having a negative impact on other players likewise other players where trying to steal my kills because it was the only way to get the Endeavour. While I had problems on Nimbus, Borg kills on Defera was good because the entire map counted so players could avoid kill stealing and spread around. Nimbus needs fixing to work on the entire map.
    Ok, so it means Gorn Faction enemies, not just Gorn species enemies. Meh. Kinda logical to go to the highest clustered area anyways.

    But your definition of "kill stealing" is kinda ridiculous. You're competing to some extent, but any amount of damage done by you or your boffs gets you kill credit. And yes, I have gotten this one. There were several other players wiping the Gorn out faster than they spawned. This is all I had to do was spawn camp Gorn and I got my kill quota. Also, most players don't stick around after they get their quota. So it's not like you'll have to spend all day waiting for things to respawn. I say most because I saw one that appeared to be AFK spawn camping Gorn. Thing is, his boffs only engaged enemies in firing range of his location.
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,229 Arc User
    Welcome to:

    "Grind Trek II: The Brainchild of Geko"
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,903 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    I picked up the 'Fistful of Gorn' Mission and went to the canyon. Without the Mission no Gorn spawn there.
    Actually they're always there unless someone killed them recently.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    edited January 28
    I had a succession of Hard PEs a couple of days ago: Complete an Iconian TFO followed by: Kill 30 Herald Ships. Both for the Hard PE so that pays-out more. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't had the TFOs: Herald Sphere & that Grethor Gateway completed both of those? They were both located under the Iconian TFO Tab. I did each twice yet it never counted for the PE completions. So if the PE doesn't need some fixin' what was incorrect? I'm confident Cryptic won't go back & recognize the effort I put in nor all the other players despite my issuing a support & bug ticket, but I'm also confident that Cryptic should make it where players' efforts & progress maintains instead of getting wiped-out whenever the tick-tock swipe for anew happens & the: Easy, Medium, & hard needs some re-calibrating & balancing. So to paraphrase a statement from earlier in the thread, so if you have a couple of hairy tribbles that are not working but are just broke hanging there then you sir have no tribbles at all. These balance & accounting of completion issues should've easily been addressed during a test & get vetted trial on Tribble.
  • voodoopokeyvoodoopokey Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote:
    It is not a problem with player attitude it’s a flaw in the way the system is designed.

    There's an inherent problem in any system that is designed around players holding a certain attitude. Really, any solution to any problem that can be summarized as "people need to stop being selfish jerks" is not a serious solution - you need to build around the idea that people will act that way fairly reliably.
    tigeraries wrote: »
    I have done Hard/Red Endeavors and it did not take more than 2... I do em on Advanced thou for the Elite Marks.

    Then what it's after is 1 advanced/eliteTFO rather than just the TFO type. The 0/3 reading 0/1 for blue-level endeavors was absolutely an issue until the last patch (it's referenced in the patch notes) so it was the natural assumption that the 0/1 counter on red level was similar. Text issues should be easier to fix than counter issues.
    If your attitude is, "TRIBBLE you guys, I got mine!" and you bail on your team, then you're being a TRIBBLE, and yes, that is on you, not the system. No system of play is going to convince a TRIBBLE to not act like a TRIBBLE.

    ...and this guy is the moderator?
    nommo wrote:
    These balance & accounting of completion issues should've easily been addressed during a test & get vetted trial on Tribble.

    To be fair, you don't get a serious test of anything until you go live with it and expose it to the minions of entropy that are users. You don't get an accurate sample of that sort of chaos on beta/test servers - those are occupied by a certain type of person rather than a wide selection of player types.
  • skk1701jskk1701j Member Posts: 169 Arc User
    Well, I got "lucky": yesterday's hard endeavor was to complete ONE Borg STF (Red Alert excluded). Game said all Borg STFs were fair game.

    Take a wild guess about what really happened.

    Conduit: NOPE.
    Hive Onslaught: NOPE.
    Red alert just because why the hell not at this point: NOPE.

    I hope I won't get one broken endeavor every week at best.

    Its the counter that is wrong... for green level its 0/1, for blue its 0/3 (which originally read 0/1 until you did all three) and for red level its 0/5 or 0/6 I think, which has the same issue that blue level did, reading 0/1 until you do all of them... and red alerts don't count.

    Compared to most red level PEs, the TFO one takes a whole lot of time, often requiring more TFOs than exist for that faction type, so you can't accomplish it without doubling up on some.

    It was one of my first. I did ISA and it worked. ISA and the other 5 old ones were in the description.

    Ico had bug hunt listed, but just registered Gateway to Gre'thor i did after bug hunt.
  • saber1973asaber1973a Member Posts: 1,113 Arc User
    Ok - I just had the Red Endeavor "Complete Borg TFO (not Red Alert)" - and it was not completed until I did one on advanced difficulty - too bad, there was no info about that anywhere in-game :/
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    saber1973a wrote: »
    Ok - I just had the Red Endeavor "Complete Borg TFO (not Red Alert)" - and it was not completed until I did one on advanced difficulty - too bad, there was no info about that anywhere in-game :/

    I have been seeing in chat a few players complain about this. So it has to be an Advanced edition of it, but that is stated nowhere for that PE's description. Thanks for retrying, figuring that omission out, & stating it. Keeping it classy there Cryptic.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    I have been seeing in chat a few players complain about this. So it has to be an Advanced edition of it, but that is stated nowhere for that PE's description. Thanks for retrying, figuring that omission out, & stating it. Keeping it classy there Cryptic.
    I did the Lukari TFO on normal and it counted it for the endeavor.

  • saber1973asaber1973a Member Posts: 1,113 Arc User
    I have been seeing in chat a few players complain about this. So it has to be an Advanced edition of it, but that is stated nowhere for that PE's description. Thanks for retrying, figuring that omission out, & stating it. Keeping it classy there Cryptic.
    I did the Lukari TFO on normal and it counted it for the endeavor.

    I did Borg Disconnected on normal, Infected space on normal and Infected Space on advanced - and only on the last one it was completed - and Endeavor counter was 1x Borg TFO...
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 13,080 Arc User
    Getting Tetryon ground weapons damage for an Endeavor is kind of a pain. Mainly because there are no Ground Sets based off of Tet. :/
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  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 2,910 Arc User
    saber1973a wrote: »
    Ok - I just had the Red Endeavor "Complete Borg TFO (not Red Alert)" - and it was not completed until I did one on advanced difficulty - too bad, there was no info about that anywhere in-game :/

    Had that last night on one toon... was red or hard. Endeavor only listed as 1 time. Did it once on Advanced and it completed. Maybe you will need more than 1 time if doing it on normal /shrug
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 2,910 Arc User
    edited January 29
    Getting Tetryon ground weapons damage for an Endeavor is kind of a pain. Mainly because there are no Ground Sets based off of Tet. :/

    Competitive Rep has Tetryon weapon...

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Duelist_Regalia

    Need T3 of Rep & 5 Elite Marks + Dil, EC, Marks

    Or Exchange for vendor trash tetryon weapon
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,299 Arc User
    Lobi store kenthi gun is tetryon and I think the alt omega rep set is as well. Neither of which is really practical for something thats based off a timer to get done.

    Kind of tragic that the system got delayed and yet the info being given as to whats required is accurate, nevermind whether the game registers it or not. You'd have thought that after the myriad of bad info for the impersonal endeavours (such aiming you to the wrong arc for the complete mission ones) that someone at cryptic might have taken more than a cursory glance to make sure things were accurate.

    As for people being dicks? Well of course they are if the game goes out of its way to aid dickish behaviour.
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