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[STAR TREK DiSCOVERY] | SEASON TWO |

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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,274 Arc User
    khan5000 wrote: »

    Every time they tease a little bit more about the enemy I get more and more Iconian vibes, even though I know that won't happen.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 9,743 Arc User
    Kobayashi Maru
    redvenge wrote: »
    As I was re-posting the "Pheremone Head Sensor-thing" articles, I came across some choice quotes from former clueless showrunner, Aaron Harberts, leading up to season one of Star Trek: Discovery. Having endured this fellow's various kernels of wisdom when doing research, I feel compelled to inflict them on the rest of you.

    Gee, thanks!

    Cracked me up! :smiley:

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > khan5000 wrote: »
    >
    > New trailer:
    >
    > https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=9o8kFyeOdfY
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Every time they tease a little bit more about the enemy I get more and more Iconian vibes, even though I know that won't happen.

    I will be surprised if it’s not an Iconian
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,359 Arc User
    So I sort of skipped over all the pages and pages of back and forth "What would Spock do?" in the thread. I was fairly ambivalent about the whole thing, until I read what Kurtzman actually said about his take on Spock:
    What gets me so excited about the story that we get to tell with Spock this season is that it’s the unwritten chapter of Spock. This is not the Spock that you know from the beginning of TOS, this is pre-TOS. He is not that formed Vulcan yet. His experience with the Red Angel and the signals has fried his logical brain. He cannot make sense of it. And he is emotionally ill-equipped to deal with it. So both logic and emotion are failing him, totally. And he is totally unsure of himself and trying to figure out how to make sense of the mystery and where he fits into the world. And it’s through his complicated relationship with his sister that he’s able to figure out how to become and actualize himself as the Spock that we know from TOS. And that’s really exciting to us because it in no way violates canon, it just builds on what’s been set before.
    https://trekmovie.com/2018/10/15/interview-star-trek-discovery-producers-talk-planets-canon-and-why-season-2-needs-spock/

    So... let me get this straight. Because no one has written about Spock in this time, you can "fill in the blanks" by creating a completely new character, calling him Spock, and no one can say you are "violating canon" because... you said so?

    This sounds like the justification you gave for the new Kling-orks. Kurtzman, you realize one of the biggest draws of the Bad Robot movies (that you worked on) was how accurately the actors cosplayed established characters, right? Karl Urban's portrayal of Doctor McCoy has been lauded by several critics and fans for how good it was. Now, you want to make a "completely new fresh take" on Spock, because you "fried his brain". If you want to make an entirely new character, why name him Spock? Just... make a new character. If this character is going to be nothing like the Spock we have seen, what are you doing?

    It's like they chose to make a prequel because "Well, this happened BEFORE they became who they are, so we can do whatever we want because NO ONE KNOWS what stuff was like BEFORE. The sky is the limit!". If you don't want to write about these characters in this setting, why are you here? Make new characters or write for some other setting. I'm not opposed to new characters. Stop re-writing existing characters because you are hacks who lack faith in your own creative works.
  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,298 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Kobayashi Maru
    we have seen in TOS, that spock do a lot of non Vulcan stuff. tuvok didn't like working with humans when he was in Excelsior. when it comes to rapid personality changes Vulcans are the perfect race...
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    I look at it as their attempt to bridge the Spock from The Cage and the Spock from TOS. How do we go from this yelling and smiling Spock to the Mister Spock we know from the series
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,605 Arc User
    khan5000 wrote: »
    I look at it as their attempt to bridge the Spock from The Cage and the Spock from TOS. How do we go from this yelling and smiling Spock to the Mister Spock we know from the series

    The easiest way to do it would be to kill Burnham and have Spock blame himself for her death. It also gives a very good excuse for why Spock never mentioned he had a human sister in TOS.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    He also didn’t mention his parents, fiancé and half brother
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,605 Arc User
    khan5000 wrote: »
    He also didn’t mention his parents, fiancé and half brother

    Sure he did. It just took decades for him to mention his half-brother and years to mention his parents and fiance. A traumatic experience could make him less likely for him to open up about his family. We will just have to wait and see how much of a difference there is between Discovery Spock and TOS Spock.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    I expect Disco Spock (TM) to be different than TOS Spock
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 10,605 Arc User
    And we will have to see what turns jovial Disco Spock into stoic TOS Spock.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,594 Arc User
    Which is even more terrible than in-universe 'explanations' of costume differences. It was a unaired pilot, Spock just wasn't written yet. This is not where they should set theor priorities.
    2r2u1s2.jpg
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 9,909 Bug Hunter
    People change at different times in their lives!? Sometimes the change can even be dramatic!?

    Urgh mi gods!?!?!!!! Muh cannnnon.

    It's like some people can't even handle real life never mind fictional people.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Which is even more terrible than in-universe 'explanations' of costume differences. It was a unaired pilot, Spock just wasn't written yet. This is not where they should set theor priorities.

    An unaired pilot that became canon when it was part of a two part episode.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,594 Arc User
    > @khan5000 said:
    > angrytarg wrote: »
    >
    > Which is even more terrible than in-universe 'explanations' of costume differences. It was a unaired pilot, Spock just wasn't written yet. This is not where they should set theor priorities.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > An unaired pilot that became canon when it was part of a two part episode.

    They didn't reshoot the material. That still stems from the pilot and we know it looks like it did because of that. It's exactly the same with Klingon looks that were never an issue until someone brought it up decades later and decided it was a huge issue. The result was cringeworthy. This will repeat itself.
    2r2u1s2.jpg
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    It depends on how they handle it. I absolutely 100% love Discovery’s reasoning behind why Sarek and Spock fall out over what TOS presented us.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,133 Arc User
    From the trailer it looks like mini-skirts are just coming back in Starfleet Fashion.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • lordrezeonlordrezeon Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Kobayashi Maru
    I'm not particularly upset about a slightly more emotional Spock for this time period. The original TOS pilot hadn't pegged down Spock as having suppressed emotions, hence the infamous scene of him with a wide grin. There is also the ST5 tidbit of young Spock wanting to go with his brother when he left (I think that one might have been from one of the deleted/trimmed down scenes).

    However the writer attitude that they have free reign to do anything they please with long established characters in a prequel setting is a bit disturbing. It only reinforces my belief that most modern writers don't respect the work of those who came before them, but are to lazy to make their own settings.

    edit:


    The Saru mini-sode also tends to make Georgiou and Starfleet look like a bunch of idiots. The writers interpretation of the Prime Directive is cringeworthy at best, disgusting at worst. Most other captains would have found some way to help, even if it was merely chasing off the alien cannibals.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,310 Arc User
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    The Saru mini-sode also tends to make Georgiou and Starfleet look like a bunch of idiots. The writers interpretation of the Prime Directive is cringeworthy at best, disgusting at worst. Most other captains would have found some way to help, even if it was merely chasing off the alien cannibals.
    Honestly? the Prime Directive often ends up being used that way. In TOS it was a randomly inconvenient law that Kirk found ways to bypass regularly.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    > @lordrezeon said:
    > I'm not particularly upset about a slightly more emotional Spock for this time period. The original TOS pilot hadn't pegged down Spock as having suppressed emotions, hence the infamous scene of him with a wide grin. There is also the ST5 tidbit of young Spock wanting to go with his brother when he left (I think that one might have been from one of the deleted/trimmed down scenes).
    >
    > However the writer attitude that they have free reign to do anything they please with long established characters in a prequel setting is a bit disturbing. It only reinforces my belief that most modern writers don't respect the work of those who came before them, but are to lazy to make their own settings.
    >
    > edit:
    >
    >
    > The Saru mini-sode also tends to make Georgiou and Starfleet look like a bunch of idiots. The writers interpretation of the Prime Directive is cringeworthy at best, disgusting at worst. Most other captains would have found some way to help, even if it was merely chasing off the alien cannibals.

    But that’s the beauty of prequels. You can do what you want with a character as long as it leads to the end result. Example: if I got tasked with doing a James Bond series before he became an agent, I can really do what I want with the character (with in reason) as long as I know it should lead to him joining the British Navy and ultimately MI-6.

    The Prime Directive is one of the worst things to happen to Star Trek. It’s a drama plot device that is not defined and is never used the same way twice. It prevented Picard from helping a planet of addicts that were being prey upon by another planet.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,359 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    People change at different times in their lives!? Sometimes the change can even be dramatic!?

    Urgh mi gods!?!?!!!! Muh cannnnon.

    It's like some people can't even handle real life never mind fictional people.
    Melting Spock's brain and having him act "weird and crazy" is not character development. At best, it's an "exciting tweest" on amnesia tropes. If you have designed a brand new character from the ground up, why not just go with a new character?

    Oh, I know. Because the writers of Star Trek: Discovery (or CBS) has no faith in their own creation and/or someone wants the "nostalgia bucks".
    khan5000 wrote: »
    But that’s the beauty of prequels. You can do what you want with a character as long as it leads to the end result. Example: if I got tasked with doing a James Bond series before he became an agent, I can really do what I want with the character (with in reason) as long as I know it should lead to him joining the British Navy and ultimately MI-6.
    The problem is that Burnham is going to "make Spock the man we know today", and they botched her redemption arc. She has to redeem herself, and these hacks want to do it through Spock. "Look, guys, she fixed Spock (after we broke him)! She's totally redeemed from murdering T'Kuvma instead of taking him prisoner!". Lazy. Hack. Writers.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 9,743 Arc User
    Kobayashi Maru
    starkaos wrote: »
    Sure he did. It just took decades for him to mention his half-brother and years to mention his parents and fiance.

    Spock mentioned them because the situation required him to as he didn't have much of a choice otherwise. It's perfectly clear he doesn't discuss personal/family matters with his lifelong friends, so it's perfectly reasonable he never mentioned Burnham.



    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 9,909 Bug Hunter
    From the trailer it looks like mini-skirts are just coming back in Starfleet Fashion.

    There's something they could have retconned instead of melting the Klingon's ears, giving Spock a beard, or putting windows on the Enterprise.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 9,909 Bug Hunter
    lordrezeon wrote: »
    The Saru mini-sode also tends to make Georgiou and Starfleet look like a bunch of idiots. The writers interpretation of the Prime Directive is cringeworthy at best, disgusting at worst. Most other captains would have found some way to help, even if it was merely chasing off the alien cannibals.

    TNG S1/2 Picard would probably have got some popcorn and watched them die to apeas the PD. Archer would probably have killed them all personally if he thought it might help his dog. Janeway would flip between setting the Borg on them and flying past them depending on which schizophrenic writer was in control of her that week.

    Bypassing the PD is not a common Starfleet trend and TNG and VGR especially went out of their way to give pats on the back to their leads for slavishly following it to whatever monstrous end the letter of the law allowed.

    Kirk and Sisko violated it more often than not because they would rather be morally right than legally right. Picard followed it because Roddenberry was a bit of a loonatic. Janeway followed it more often than not because the writers needed to make a TNG clone. Archer pre-dates it and Lorca was evil.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,594 Arc User
    > @artan42 said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > From the trailer it looks like mini-skirts are just coming back in Starfleet Fashion.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > There's something they could have retconned instead of melting the Klingon's ears, giving Spock a beard, or putting windows on the Enterprise.​​

    You mean miniskirts and thigh-high ringed socks aren't proper uniforms? They are on MY ship Mister 😜
    2r2u1s2.jpg
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 30,144 Arc User
    if an organization says something is a proper uniform, and it matches what everyone else in that organization is wearing (allowing for whatever differences may be in place for gender and rank, of course), it's a proper uniform, regardless of what type of clothing article it is or what material it's made out of​​
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    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"

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    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.

    Stand with Star Trek: The Animated Series content for STO! #TASforSTO
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 9,909 Bug Hunter
    angrytarg wrote: »
    > @artan42 said:
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > From the trailer it looks like mini-skirts are just coming back in Starfleet Fashion.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > There's something they could have retconned instead of melting the Klingon's ears, giving Spock a beard, or putting windows on the Enterprise.

    You mean miniskirts and thigh-high ringed socks aren't proper uniforms? They are on MY ship Mister 😜

    Until we see a male Starfleet office in one then they're not proper uniforms unlike the Skants. They're just extensions of set design.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
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