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KDF disinvestment tangent

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  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    warpangel wrote: »
    Yes, the iconian war could've been just a single cutscene in which they gated bombs into every military facility and murdered all the faction leaders in their sleep and then roll credits it's game over, the bad guys win.

    But making us fight dark space wizards in their black spiky ships of evil instead makes for a better game. ;)
    No, it does not. Especially since we can respawn. It just highlights how toothless and stupid the Iconians are.

    The Iconians share traits with the Elder Gods of Lovecraftian stories: unstoppable, unknowable cosmic entities that will end all life as we know it. Classically, such entities are defeated not with brute force because, you'll lose) but with guile, cunning, or not waking them up in the first place. Heralds were already a thing. There was no need to actually face Iconians in battle, and was boring and anti-climatic when it happened (to say nothing of the slap fight between Kah'less and T'Ket. set cringe to "kill", indeed).
    Your entire post ignores the fact that the Iconians didn't want to kill everyone in the galaxy, nor did they want to entirely destroy the functionality of all the worlds who stood up to them, they simply wanted to take over everyone in the galaxy for much of the same reasons why The Dominion do. Entirely destroying the infrastructure of world you plan to take over is counter productive to the overall goal.
    For space gods who can teleport anywhere they want to go, and build MULTIPLE DYSON SPHERES, restoring power and communication to a planet would be child's play.

    Surrender, and we make you a productive member of the Iconian Empire. With the intel they gathered over millennia this should be a trival task.
    As for the gateway tech, given that they never do it, we can infer that they can't open gateways inside ships easily. The Iconians needed the Borg to bring some of their tech onto their ship before they could portal the inside out.
    We cannot infer anything because we do not know how it works. To quote the Todd "It Just Works". The Iconians have unlimited resources and technology that far exceeds our own. The fact that the Iconian War lasted more than a few minutes reveals more about the Iconians stupidity than the Alliance's strength.

    Edit: I'm not going to continue derailing a KDF Rant with an Iconian Rant. I'll be happy to comment in another thread.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    For a Disinvestment strategy sell stocks and bonds and buy Silver. It's in high demand, and supplies are running out. :)
    Post edited by ltminns on
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    There is another reason why they could not destroy the Iconian sphere even with all the technology, Omega Particles. Like the other sphere in the game. I can imagine it working off an Omega Particle Engine. It provides enough power to allow the spheres to jump from place to place. The Terrans were able to destory the Iconians but then their future selves did help them out. In fact Starfleets Temporal Police according to one of the articles might even be the ones to make sure Terrans history isn't changed as much as it could be. As they would act like the Temporal Liberation Front in their universe. Changing the timeline to suit their own wants and desires. As such I think in one of the blogs it hints at Starfleet Temporal Police also policing the Mirror Universe.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10058533-my-own-worst-enemy
    Terrans seems do the way they operate seem to be able to do a lot more and maybe because of this don't lose as much as the Federation and the alliance has. But yeah with future technology or the Spore Drive Starfleet and the alliance might have been more successful in such a mission. But I do think it was good the way The Alliance Handled it in the end. Even though it inadvertently caused the destruction of Romulus.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    It doesn't matter one bit what Kagran's plan was or what tech the iconians or the alliance had. This is a videogame and that means the war was always going to be won by the Player Character doing his/her thing. Any NPC attempt to resolve the conflict, whether allied or iconian, no matter what the outcome, was obviously going to fail because the point of a videogame is for the player to resolve the plot. Anything else would've made the player and therefore the game pointless.
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Well Some might think Kagran was not a very good battle strategist, but then they were desperate Iconians would have overran everything. Which was the reason why they had to go back in time. But Kagran had true honor, instead of murdering them he helped them and by doing so, led the way to the end of the iconian war and the happy ending. Like him or Hate him without him the Iconian's would have all been wiped out and history would have been changed so much. So much the Federation and everything else might not have existed. So in the end he made the right choice even if people felt he made some very bad choices.
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    The main issue is that outside of one or two instances in the starter quests, you never get a chance to be a Klingon.

    Like them or not, agree with them or not, there is a canon portrayal of Klingons, and outside of the Bat'leth tournament you never get to act that way.

    Example: In the first incarnation of Hakeev's death scene I was given the choice to kill him or not to kill him. My Fed character let him live, my Klingon killed him. That choice was taken away because it was considered inappropriate. But it was a very Klingon thing to do, and there was absolutely no reason for the choice to be removed other than to conform to some Federation ideal about killing, after we've killed dozens of others to get to that point. (And yeah, you can stun with phasers, which we certainly do with our orbital bombardment optionals.)

    Throughout the game there are no opportunities to choose Klingon dialogue options even if my character must end up doing the exact same thing Fed characters must do. At most it would require an extra line of dialogue here and there. All that would take is for the developers to think about things from a Klingon PoV every once in a while.

    Why is that too much to ask?
  • potasssiumpotasssium Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    ...Battlecruisers. High agility Cruisers with the ability to slot DHCs as an option. That was what differentiated KDF Cruisers from Fed Cruisers. Fed Cruisers by tradition did not do DC / DHCs. Battlecruisers did not necessarily mean a LtCmdr TAC Station. We were spanking Feds with Lt TAC Negh'Vars and Lt + Ens TAC Vor'Chas. Fed Cruisers had the same Tactical Station layouts as KDF. It was the agility of KDF Battlecruisers and DC / DHC capability that Feds wanted.

    And they got it, in the form of the Fed Avenger Battlecruiser.

    Carriers. The KDF were the original faction with Carriers in STO. The Vo'Quv was the only Carrier and then the KDF get the C-Store Kar'Fi. If a Fed wanted a Carrier, they needed to fork out for the JHDC. Then the Atrox came out, and the Jupiter in Tier 6 years later. Hell, the KDF still doesn't have a Tier 6 Carrier unless it forks out big. The Vo'Quv and Kar'Fi still have not transitioned into Tier 6.

    Oh, speaking of Kar'Fi, the console it comes with? It doesn't even form a Set Bonus with the new event ship, another Fek'Ihri ship. The new ship is ONLY the 2nd ever ship from this race ever put into the game, and it doesn't even make a set bonus with the first ever. But this isn't the first time. The T6 Multi-Mission SCI Vessels / "Vesta" cross faction releases? The new Gorn ships don't even have a set bonus with the T5 Varanus Repair Platform.

    There's also been an interesting trend with many of these newer "KDF Battlecruisers" that don't behave like KDF Battlecruisers and can't even use DC / DHC weapons. They are all in effect, Fed Cruisers.

    There's all kinds more of oversights (evidence nobody understands the KDF in Cryptic), loss of uniqueness to the faction over the years.

    Federation Battlecruisers, the lack of a T6 Vo'Quv. The are probably the two things that bother me the most about KDF content or the lack there of. While I especially feel this was about the Avenger, this disdain also kept me away from the Federation CBC, while I did purchase the KDF CBC 3pk, as well as the Gorkon. Sadly I like the look of the Geneva, but not it's class. I'll put the Europa in this list too. The only Fed Battle Cruisers I forgive is the Eclipse (which is in my mind covert ops Section 31) and the Temporal ones.

    Battlecruisers without DC access are BC in name only, and just cruisers otherwise, 'meh'

    I will point out the T6 Ambassador/Vor'cha pack as an improvement, The Ambassador certainly isn't sporting DC. Even if the T6 is a Vor'cha/Kamarag hybrid in ways, it is a better execution than some. The Vor'cha has quite a bit of customization parts in contrast to other ships, so that is a big win.

    I never liked the Vesta that much, my go to fed sci ship is the Nebula, but I love the Gorn MMSV, so not too burned on that front. I'm used to the lack of set bonuses on KDF ships, and as such the t5 and t6 vesta sets are seperate sets I believe.

    If there was a 2 pc set for the Catian ships and not the Fek'Ihri, or Nausican, or Orion, etc... then I would be annoyed.

    KDF have gotten some great stuff too, the Mat'ha (my love and joy), the QeHpu' which I quite like, and the Kor come to mind. Only complaint on the Kor is the stupid t5 shipyard requirement.
    Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
    New Content Wishlist
    T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
    Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
    Dahar Master Jacket

  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    brian334 wrote: »
    The main issue is that outside of one or two instances in the starter quests, you never get a chance to be a Klingon.

    Like them or not, agree with them or not, there is a canon portrayal of Klingons, and outside of the Bat'leth tournament you never get to act that way.

    Example: In the first incarnation of Hakeev's death scene I was given the choice to kill him or not to kill him. My Fed character let him live, my Klingon killed him. That choice was taken away because it was considered inappropriate. But it was a very Klingon thing to do, and there was absolutely no reason for the choice to be removed other than to conform to some Federation ideal about killing, after we've killed dozens of others to get to that point. (And yeah, you can stun with phasers, which we certainly do with our orbital bombardment optionals.)

    Throughout the game there are no opportunities to choose Klingon dialogue options even if my character must end up doing the exact same thing Fed characters must do. At most it would require an extra line of dialogue here and there. All that would take is for the developers to think about things from a Klingon PoV every once in a while.

    Why is that too much to ask?

    Did they say that was the reason why they removed the option? They are currently revamping several federation missions and they took out nimbus as a main storyline for every faction except Romulan Republic and we won't know what they are doing with them they might be removing some more choices with them. I believe they revamped a lot of the romulan missions to account for the romulan republic from what I know. might have changed it so the romulan republic would be the one to kill him and no one else. It could even be for the reasons you described. As it is you do have an option to kill the orion or capture him with Nimbus.So at least there is that. Hopefully they don't move to remove that option. But who knows they might.
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    brian334 wrote: »
    The main issue is that outside of one or two instances in the starter quests, you never get a chance to be a Klingon.

    Like them or not, agree with them or not, there is a canon portrayal of Klingons, and outside of the Bat'leth tournament you never get to act that way.

    Example: In the first incarnation of Hakeev's death scene I was given the choice to kill him or not to kill him. My Fed character let him live, my Klingon killed him. That choice was taken away because it was considered inappropriate. But it was a very Klingon thing to do, and there was absolutely no reason for the choice to be removed other than to conform to some Federation ideal about killing, after we've killed dozens of others to get to that point. (And yeah, you can stun with phasers, which we certainly do with our orbital bombardment optionals.)

    Throughout the game there are no opportunities to choose Klingon dialogue options even if my character must end up doing the exact same thing Fed characters must do. At most it would require an extra line of dialogue here and there. All that would take is for the developers to think about things from a Klingon PoV every once in a while.

    Why is that too much to ask?

    The short answer is yes.

    Long Answer....

    In this game you are on a single narrative that don’t care about your choices in any way.
    Romulan, Klingon, Human, Liberated Borg, Jem’Hadar, and any other race makes no difference, Your choice of profession Engineer, Tactical, or Science likewise makes no difference. Regardless of skills, ship, Equipment, the only outcome you change is how fast you kill something.

    Even the last few missions why trying something new and a change of pace is nice you as the character Are not even part of the story it’s a group of Ferengi. Why I am not saying I am upset by that the point is its even less of your story and more along the lines of you have became a side kick to the story at best.
    And the fiction blogs nice as they may be are not even tied in to the game it’s just what amounts to fan fiction. The developers are not going to spend one hour of time to make any changes in the script based on your choices or anyone else. They are going to do what CBS and PWI direct man hours in to regardless of what we the player base may want. Why some dev’s put in there own time on special projects the foundry for instance it’s not going to bring about the changes you are speaking of.

    I see no reason why they can’t turn out content for the different factions or even given the width and breadth of the IP one off missions with small rewards. Even as simple as say investigation where the TOS left off and have the player check up on what has developed in the present time of sto. For instance what happened after “The Gamesters of Triskelion” Did the brains hold to there word and teach did they decide not to what happened to them?

    When you look under the hood of any game they are just a system of data access and a graphic user interface.

    Missions the dev team uses a better set of tools then they provide for foundry authors it should not be that hard to make missions. Why i understand Good missions and great missions don't happen over night i would think having the writing Staff or single individual as the case may be concentrate on mission story in place of fiction blogs might help improve the speed of getting the missions.

    In any case I could go on for quite a bit but saying any more is pointless on my part and time spent. Part of why PWI wanted cryptic in the first place was this games framework to rapidly produce games with. So some where there has been a issue and i don't know where PWI CBS or Cryptic but at some point there is a bottleneck preventing this.
    Post edited by roguealltrek on
    To be or not to be: B)
  • jtoney3448jtoney3448 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    When it comes down to it Ill go with the old 'Field of Dreams' quote. "If you build it they will come." If you invest little to nothing you get little to nothing back. You want KDF etc faction to be worth investing in well you have to build into it first.
  • potasssiumpotasssium Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    jtoney3448 wrote: »
    When it comes down to it Ill go with the old 'Field of Dreams' quote. "If you build it they will come." If you invest little to nothing you get little to nothing back. You want KDF etc faction to be worth investing in well you have to build into it first.

    Quality over Quantity, most ships they only release Fed Side results in money I didn't spent. My KDF Allied Romulans actually have the most Admiralty card strangely, but I get the impression I am an outlier in that regard.
    Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
    New Content Wishlist
    T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
    Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
    Dahar Master Jacket

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    The main issue is that outside of one or two instances in the starter quests, you never get a chance to be a Klingon.

    Like them or not, agree with them or not, there is a canon portrayal of Klingons, and outside of the Bat'leth tournament you never get to act that way.

    Example: In the first incarnation of Hakeev's death scene I was given the choice to kill him or not to kill him. My Fed character let him live, my Klingon killed him. That choice was taken away because it was considered inappropriate. But it was a very Klingon thing to do, and there was absolutely no reason for the choice to be removed other than to conform to some Federation ideal about killing, after we've killed dozens of others to get to that point. (And yeah, you can stun with phasers, which we certainly do with our orbital bombardment optionals.)
    It's not about any Federation ideals, but of vengeance. The romulan Player Character has a massive personal score to settle with Hakeev, so they kill him themselves (regardless of faction alignment). Whereas the other origins are not as involved so they leave him to Obisek, who is.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    Poor implementation of factions is not diversity.

    The factions should be rock-paper-scissors. (Or rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock.)
    That only makes sense in PvP, basically. In PvE, it wouldn't make much sense to base rock-paper-scissors in factions, because you would normally expect that a PvE mission is more likely to be undertake by members of the same faction.
    Rock-Paper-Scissor is usually something reserved for classes and builds.

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    jtoney3448 wrote: »
    When it comes down to it Ill go with the old 'Field of Dreams' quote. "If you build it they will come." If you invest little to nothing you get little to nothing back. You want KDF etc faction to be worth investing in well you have to build into it first.
    However, Cryptic actually has invested into the Klingons. There was a time where the KLingons had only PvP (and maybe Enemy signal Contacts and those Empire Defense missions?). Then they got access to STFs and, more importantly perhaps, go their own take on the Exploration System (except it wasn'T exploration, but similar principle). Then they got access to Featured episodes. Then they got a fully fledged starting storyline.
    But apparently, it was never enough to justify the investment, or they would have kept doing it. If you build, but not enough come, then at some point you have to admit defeat.

    Sure, fundamentally, maybe the KDF would have been btter off if Federation and KDF had the same stuff from the start. But it's too late for that. And even then it's not guaranteed, since we're talking about an IP where pretty much every show or movie focused on the Starfleet/Federation viewpoint. Cryptic didn't "build" that, but people might come for that, anyway.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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