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KDF disinvestment tangent

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 177,983 Arc User
This discussion was created from comments split from: Endgame disappointing as a new player.
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  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,534 Arc User
    laiwaisan wrote: »
    Wait your telling me the codes i got for the scorpion fighter and the road island ship i think its called i later can unlock so my Kling can use it guys also on a side not when i did the codes says they redeem correctly but i didnt see the scorp ship or the rhoad island one ?

    well, there's your mistake right there! you're playing KDF instead of Fed-Romulan!
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, TRIBBLE them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur

  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,534 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    May be the "most optimal" but it isn't the ONLY option. "Optimal" does not equal "Only". Just like you don't have to run ONLY Tactical Romulan or anything Meta. We have options.

    If I wanted to be locked down on what to run, I'd play a rail shooter.

    Um...okay, so show me where in the game any of your choices as a player have any impact whatsoever.

    hint: this IS a rail shooter. every choice available to you as a player boils down to "widest collection of options" (Fed-Romulan) vs. "Most expensive and limited options" (KDF-anything). As a Fed-Rom you get everything you would get running KDF, plus everything you get for Romulan, plus everything you get for playing Fed.

    it's "Optimal" because you don't give up anything at all by doing it, while opting for KDF, you're essentially choosing to get less of everything, at higher cost, with more bugs that last longer and never get fixed, plus lots of things that don't work because the player faction is just this side of abandoned by development, having only slightly higher priority than PvP, which is a format utterly abandoned by the development staff entirely.

    In terms of storyline, your KDF character does Starfleet's bidding for the first 20 or so levels, after which, you get to do exactly the same things your Fed did, for exactly the same reasons your fed did them, using exactly the same dialogue your fed used. this continues for the rest of the game.

    the only real difference being access to fewer good ships in the C-store, lack of an End-game carrier unless you're a lover of lockboxes, and having non-functional starship traits being the only ones unique to the KDF side, having ships that are inferior (for the most part) to their Fed counterparts, lack of useful space traits (Pirate is teh only one on KDF side and it doesn't stack-and is available fedside via a mission boff), and while Fed players can count on the consolation prize consoles being the best from the KDF's c-store offerings, the opposite is not so; instead KDF gets the worst and least useful ones from that same tech-trade (including systems that never worked as advertised).

    For Admiralty choices, Fed-Rom gets the best selection-having access to both the vast FEderation ship-list, and the Romulan list by default. KDF's list is short, costs a lot to get good stats (more than for Fed) and is extremely limited.

    Doffing provides lots of Doffs that are best used on Federation builds and have only limited utility on KDF builds. To get useful ones costs a lot on the exchange and may not be compatible.

    Community-wise, KDF is pretty empty. the majority of KDF toons are there to generate contraband for Fed mains, which is a function that is largely superseded by Admiralty at this point. There is very little (compared to past eras when, believe it or not, the faction had an active player community) activity or opportunity to do roleplaying, and less relevance to the game now than in the past.

    This probably has a lot to do with sustained neglect and marginalization by the developer staff, along with the one-way homogenization of the faction (KDF abilities were apparently tested on KDF, and then transferred in improved and less expensive form to Federation/cross faction for Feds.) Leaving no gameplay uniqueness and little in the way of story or plotline differentiation, thus, nothing but some cosmetics that are heavily bugged remains, along with the aforementioned sustained, long term neglect.

    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, TRIBBLE them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur

  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,617 Arc User
    Yeah, only play Klingon if you LOVE Klingon.
    If you want gamer advantages...go Romulan and go Federation aligned.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." -- Captian Jean-Luc Picard

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,534 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Yeah, only play Klingon if you LOVE Klingon.
    If you want gamer advantages...go Romulan and go Federation aligned.

    you put it so very much more succinctly than I did.
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, TRIBBLE them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur

  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,617 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    patrickngo wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Yeah, only play Klingon if you LOVE Klingon.
    If you want gamer advantages...go Romulan and go Federation aligned.

    you put it so very much more succinctly than I did.

    You are more than welcome to hijack those words.
    Rather have you writing your book, than writing rants on Forums.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." -- Captian Jean-Luc Picard

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 4,851 Community Moderator
    Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy: Convince everyone that Klingon is a bad choice, because there's not enough players and not enough dev support; People then don't choose Klingon and it goes round and round.
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,080 Arc User
    That particular cycle was started by the devs and has been perpetuated by them with each revolution of the wheel, the players only keep it rotating and can't do anything to change the direction.

    Pick whatever class and whatever faction you want, words like optimal shouldn't come into the equation. Personally I find tacs really rather bland and one dimensional, sci on the other hand is much more interesting even if they suffer from having been the "healer" in the old days when sto tied them into the unholy trinity of mmo's.

    You are the only one who dictates what you find fun.
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,534 Arc User
    Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy: Convince everyone that Klingon is a bad choice, because there's not enough players and not enough dev support; People then don't choose Klingon and it goes round and round.

    Tried it the other way, BMR. Didn't work. When we were extolling the virtues of KDF, every time we got traction the devs would move something else over to Fedside, or another bug would manifest, or another advantage would be nullified.

    at some point, you learn not to mention anything good about KDF, because if you do, the Devs will make sure it's either nullified or given to the Feds post-haste (usually in improved form). They've managed to that with just about everything at this point, afaict.
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, TRIBBLE them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur

  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 4,851 Community Moderator
    You guys are aware that the Community Manager is a huge Klingon fan and pushes for more KDF stuff all the time, right? :smirk:
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    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of PWE/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of PWE/Cryptic
    Contact Customer Support --> https://support.arcgames.com
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
    Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,534 Arc User
    You guys are aware that the Community Manager is a huge Klingon fan and pushes for more KDF stuff all the time, right? :smirk:

    He's a community manager, that, if nothing else, is a sign of someone who lives to experience pain and frustration, of course he's a Klingon fan! :)

    only us mentally unstable, emotionally defective types have the endurance to be Klingon fans...
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, TRIBBLE them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur

  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,534 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    brian334 wrote: »
    Still nothing as fun in STO as performing a perfect decloak alpha hit. Things go bla-boom! and you do your best to be ahead of the debris.

    BoPpin' is fun, when you aren't respawning...

    And that is the KEY to this game.
    You have to use your creativity and make something out of what you have and are given. Leave envy on the shelf.

    (Yes, Patrickngo, even with PvP in a world where things are not competitively balanced.)

    Same thing my Fleet Leader said to me when I was railing about no female characters for ViL.
    You can't wait for the Devs to come up with "something" FOR you.
    Find your niche and what motivates you. DO THAT.

    Everything else kinda falls into place. OR just falls away...and it doesn't matter any more.

    I kind of stopped asking for things from the devs once I realized it was pointless, Where2r1.

    Fact is, I wouldn't be here still, if some of it wasn't still fun. but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be criticized, because it could be a lot more than it is, and it opened with all that potential.

    but that potential's been kinda p*ssed away. I mean it's understandable why; Cryptic's a small shop, they have large expenses and can't afford to take many risks, they're a small team and tehy can't afford to have much in the way of conflict, so risk and confict aversion is the name of the game, They can't manage some of the aspects they inherited from the original team, and some aspects they can't manage because the only expert they had they fired back in 2011.

    There are simply aspects of the game the team (and company) have demonstrated they can't manage. It can't be fixed either, because the fixes are risky, they root in psychology that is uncomfortable for the extant corporate culture. The team are like hot-house flowers, they can't handle critics or critical statements, they go straight to the defensive and bunker down, making it really impossible to have a two way dialogue on the places they're just not doing a very good job at.

    Things like handling a game with opposing factions, is simply beyond their ability to comprehend, much less handle. This is why every NPC villain is some combination of ham and cheeze with little to no depth and really a very limp and weak presentation, it's why they repeatedly fail at balancing with powers and combat mechanics, and why their matchmaking algorithm doesn't work=they can't test it reliably. It's beyond the team's ability to grasp.



    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, TRIBBLE them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,165 Arc User
    Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy: Convince everyone that Klingon is a bad choice, because there's not enough players and not enough dev support; People then don't choose Klingon and it goes round and round.
    Yes, Klingons are smelly and stupid. :p Play Orion! Orions are much better!
    dcfhfbp-6639eb3d-a982-40c4-a30c-64ea2182c354.png
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,165 Arc User
    That particular cycle was started by the devs and has been perpetuated by them with each revolution of the wheel, the players only keep it rotating and can't do anything to change the direction.
    This is absolute garbage. I've been around long enough to know that this is one step from being a bald-face lie. It IS true that the KDF has never had as much stuff as Feds. The idea that the devs want to make things worse for KDF though... Utter nonsense.
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,080 Arc User
    So the addition of fed v fed during a time when pvp was the only content for klinks was move that made things better for the kdf playerbase?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,165 Arc User
    So the addition of fed v fed during a time when pvp was the only content for klinks was move that made things better for the kdf playerbase?
    "only content"? Uh.. what season are you talking about again? 'cause I don't think you an actually support your claim.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 7,997 Arc User
    Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy: Convince everyone that Klingon is a bad choice, because there's not enough players and not enough dev support; People then don't choose Klingon and it goes round and round.
    But it's not a prophecy at all, it's the current state of the game. There are significantly less players and less dev support on KDF. What else are we supposed to say, lie to new players about it?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,165 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy: Convince everyone that Klingon is a bad choice, because there's not enough players and not enough dev support; People then don't choose Klingon and it goes round and round.
    But it's not a prophecy at all, it's the current state of the game. There are significantly less players and less dev support on KDF. What else are we supposed to say, lie to new players about it?
    Lie? playing KDF IS FUN! Telling newbies otherwise IS lying!!!!
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,080 Arc User
    So the addition of fed v fed during a time when pvp was the only content for klinks was move that made things better for the kdf playerbase?
    "only content"? Uh.. what season are you talking about again? 'cause I don't think you an actually support your claim.

    Given you played the length of time card I assumed you'd played long enough to remember the time when all the KDF had was starting life at level 20ish, a nebula to wander about in and pvp.

    Which was crippled overnight by the addition of fed v fed.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 7,997 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Things like handling a game with opposing factions, is simply beyond their ability to comprehend, much less handle.
    Thing is, whether you agree with it or not, they aren't trying to handle a game with opposing factions. The exact opposite is true, they've constantly been trying to bring them together. We've been allied for 4 years, the war ended a good 8 months before that. The "factions" haven't been opposing for a long time and if it weren't for engine limitations I doubt we'd have much factions left at all.

    The best if not only hope for faction equality is when Cryptic finishes what they started and makes all the content and materiel available for everyone no restrictions. Then the factions will properly be origin stories, for flavor and character history, with no gameplay advantages.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,165 Arc User
    So the addition of fed v fed during a time when pvp was the only content for klinks was move that made things better for the kdf playerbase?
    "only content"? Uh.. what season are you talking about again? 'cause I don't think you an actually support your claim.
    Given you played the length of time card I assumed you'd played long enough to remember the time when all the KDF had was starting life at level 20ish, a nebula to wander about in and pvp.

    Which was crippled overnight by the addition of fed v fed.
    No, I remember when KDF started at level 8. I walked the halls of the Great Hall map before it got changed to the current First City map.

    KDF has always had story missions. It's just that, prior to reworking the starting level to 20-something, they didn't have enough to level from 8 to 50. Which meant gaps where they had to grind nebula exploration missions and PvP for XP. Honestly allowing mixed teams in PvP had as it's main effect making PvP matches quicker to start.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 45,977 Arc User
    This is starting to get a little ugly...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 1,153 Arc User
    I've never found that I was punished for playing KDF and I got 2 KDF chars (an orion engineer and a klingon warrior aka tactical), dispite what some people imply.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    KDF is fairly solid. Contrary to popular belief, even at budget level, especially on the engineer or tactical side, you're really competitive. Some may even argue if you're full f2p that KDF>Rom. Romulans are more difficult to master and a warbird is a way of playing the game on Hard, especially in terms of survivability.

    Now there is a mass of trolls that are gonna say how their scimitar is made out of stone, but their stone scimitar dies in four shots instead of three and their dps is taking a fall for that.

    Federation is indeed the favored child in this family because, let's face it, Star Trek is Federation.

    But KDF remains a solid choice, both boff-wise and ship wise. Play a Tac or an Engineer if you wanna stick with the KDF.

    Science would really benefit more from the Federation part. The amount of choices regarding science ships is simply the real difference.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,545 Media Corps
    patrickngo wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    brian334 wrote: »
    Still nothing as fun in STO as performing a perfect decloak alpha hit. Things go bla-boom! and you do your best to be ahead of the debris.

    BoPpin' is fun, when you aren't respawning...

    And that is the KEY to this game.
    You have to use your creativity and make something out of what you have and are given. Leave envy on the shelf.

    (Yes, Patrickngo, even with PvP in a world where things are not competitively balanced.)

    Same thing my Fleet Leader said to me when I was railing about no female characters for ViL.
    You can't wait for the Devs to come up with "something" FOR you.
    Find your niche and what motivates you. DO THAT.

    Everything else kinda falls into place. OR just falls away...and it doesn't matter any more.

    I kind of stopped asking for things from the devs once I realized it was pointless, Where2r1.

    Fact is, I wouldn't be here still, if some of it wasn't still fun. but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be criticized, because it could be a lot more than it is, and it opened with all that potential.

    but that potential's been kinda p*ssed away. I mean it's understandable why; Cryptic's a small shop, they have large expenses and can't afford to take many risks, they're a small team and tehy can't afford to have much in the way of conflict, so risk and confict aversion is the name of the game, They can't manage some of the aspects they inherited from the original team, and some aspects they can't manage because the only expert they had they fired back in 2011.

    There are simply aspects of the game the team (and company) have demonstrated they can't manage. It can't be fixed either, because the fixes are risky, they root in psychology that is uncomfortable for the extant corporate culture. The team are like hot-house flowers, they can't handle critics or critical statements, they go straight to the defensive and bunker down, making it really impossible to have a two way dialogue on the places they're just not doing a very good job at.

    Things like handling a game with opposing factions, is simply beyond their ability to comprehend, much less handle. This is why every NPC villain is some combination of ham and cheeze with little to no depth and really a very limp and weak presentation, it's why they repeatedly fail at balancing with powers and combat mechanics, and why their matchmaking algorithm doesn't work=they can't test it reliably. It's beyond the team's ability to grasp.



    Having personally talked to some members of the Cryptic STO team in both officially and unofficially, I can agree with most of what you said, but it applies to some members of their team. For every mean-spirited, immature, and unprofessional Cryptic employee I have encountered, I have had the pleasure of interacting with a good-natured, mentally stable, and professional Cryptic employee. This, ironically, mirrors the opinions held about the experiences in this game; some aspects you have disgust for, while others you love, and you wish there was more of that kind of feeling throughout the entire game.

    This is why some people are confused when we sing both praises and contempt for this game; we're not being cryptic about how our interactions are in this game, we're just telling it like it is, both subjectively and objectively.
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
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  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,534 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    brian334 wrote: »
    Still nothing as fun in STO as performing a perfect decloak alpha hit. Things go bla-boom! and you do your best to be ahead of the debris.

    BoPpin' is fun, when you aren't respawning...

    And that is the KEY to this game.
    You have to use your creativity and make something out of what you have and are given. Leave envy on the shelf.

    (Yes, Patrickngo, even with PvP in a world where things are not competitively balanced.)

    Same thing my Fleet Leader said to me when I was railing about no female characters for ViL.
    You can't wait for the Devs to come up with "something" FOR you.
    Find your niche and what motivates you. DO THAT.

    Everything else kinda falls into place. OR just falls away...and it doesn't matter any more.

    I kind of stopped asking for things from the devs once I realized it was pointless, Where2r1.

    Fact is, I wouldn't be here still, if some of it wasn't still fun. but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be criticized, because it could be a lot more than it is, and it opened with all that potential.

    but that potential's been kinda p*ssed away. I mean it's understandable why; Cryptic's a small shop, they have large expenses and can't afford to take many risks, they're a small team and tehy can't afford to have much in the way of conflict, so risk and confict aversion is the name of the game, They can't manage some of the aspects they inherited from the original team, and some aspects they can't manage because the only expert they had they fired back in 2011.

    There are simply aspects of the game the team (and company) have demonstrated they can't manage. It can't be fixed either, because the fixes are risky, they root in psychology that is uncomfortable for the extant corporate culture. The team are like hot-house flowers, they can't handle critics or critical statements, they go straight to the defensive and bunker down, making it really impossible to have a two way dialogue on the places they're just not doing a very good job at.

    Things like handling a game with opposing factions, is simply beyond their ability to comprehend, much less handle. This is why every NPC villain is some combination of ham and cheeze with little to no depth and really a very limp and weak presentation, it's why they repeatedly fail at balancing with powers and combat mechanics, and why their matchmaking algorithm doesn't work=they can't test it reliably. It's beyond the team's ability to grasp.



    Having personally talked to some members of the Cryptic STO team in both officially and unofficially, I can agree with most of what you said, but it applies to some members of their team. For every mean-spirited, immature, and unprofessional Cryptic employee I have encountered, I have had the pleasure of interacting with a good-natured, mentally stable, and professional Cryptic employee. This, ironically, mirrors the opinions held about the experiences in this game; some aspects you have disgust for, while others you love, and you wish there was more of that kind of feeling throughout the entire game.

    This is why some people are confused when we sing both praises and contempt for this game; we're not being cryptic about how our interactions are in this game, we're just telling it like it is, both subjectively and objectively.

    You don't seem to be understanding me. "Conflict Averse" people tend to be nice. It's not always the case, but on average, they tend to be nice people, and the ones who aren't, tend to be good at 'seeming' to be nice people.

    Unfortunately they don't tend to thrive in conflict, and w/Cryptic's team, they're nice and they're sensitive to criticism.

    Wargame designers that are successful tend to have a bit of "The devil" in them, and to be people who thrive on conflict, the sorts who enjoy a good argument (or a good fight, depending on physicality and conditions).

    NICE people have a rough time designing or managing conflict-based activities (such as PvP games, contact sports, etcetera.)

    I never said they weren't 'nice', and obviously they're professionals, but they're not emotionally or mentally equipped to do wargaming, because they don't handle conflict well.

    In simpler way of putting it, what they would need to hire to actually handle PvP development or really designing conflict/combat based scenarios, is a raging *sshole of a particular variety-unfortunately, such a raging *sshole would last about a week before "Left under amicable circumstances, we swear".

    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, TRIBBLE them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur

  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,534 Arc User
    Let me try to clarify what I mean;

    Conflict thriving people love it when they don't have a guaranteed win (or loss). For example, a person who emotionally thrives on conflict finds their joy in the contest, whether of strength, skill, or will, but is bored and unsatisfied when their opponent is too weak or passive and the 'win' is all but pre-decided by the conditions.

    They want a fight that they can lose.

    Conflict Averse personalities don't thrive in that kind of environment, they thrive on certainty, the certainty of an easy (or simple, or unchallenging) win, and will only fight if victory is already assured.

    When you look at scenario design in PvE, it's almost entirely laid out, (with only a couple of early examples) as something that is essentially guaranteed to end in victory.

    When you look at the storylines, it's the same thing-no matter what, the 'heroes' win in a certain, often narrowly specific, way.

    This is what the Cryptic team are good at, because it's the kind of gameplay they themselves enjoy.

    how a designer builds their scenarios says a lot about the person building it. Cryptic's team are emotionally risk and conflict averse, which is a number one driver for the homogenization of content and the poor handling of first the Klingon/Federation conflict, and then every subsequent conflict they've tried to address-they can imitate battle, but they really don't want to engage in it, and will get it over as quickly as possible, with the most certain outcome they can devise, regardless of player performance.

    It's also why they have such a hard time grasping game-balance. That desire for certainty overcomes any intellectual understanding of challenge.

    basically, you can't teach someone to love uncertainty, to embrace risk, or to thrive in conflict.

    I said what I said, about cryptic's team being unable to do certain things and address certain problems, because those things and problems aren't things you can learn to address in a college course. Game Designers thrive building the games they themselves want to play-forcing them to build game elements they themselves do NOT want to play, will always result in an inferior product, when it results in a product at all.

    It's not a slam on professionalism, because it's not about professionalism. it's about comprehension, it's like asking a woodworker to design a steel structure. at BEST you'll get something barely serviceable, but most of the time you get something that doesn't work in the slightest.



    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, TRIBBLE them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur

  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,617 Arc User
    But Patrickngo....you are not a new player.
    You already know not to wait for the Devs and to make your own fun.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    "The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." -- Captian Jean-Luc Picard

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 1,571 Arc User
    Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy: Convince everyone that Klingon is a bad choice, because there's not enough players and not enough dev support; People then don't choose Klingon and it goes round and round.

    SHHHHHHH do not bring facts and logic into this
    giphy.gif
    We Want Vic Fontaine!!!
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 7,997 Arc User
    After the initial storylines are over, all the "factions" play exactly the same. Sure, some offer larger ship lists but that's generally only relevant for collecting Admiralty cards. Almost all faction ships made in recent years are more or less copypasted for everyone with minimal differences (cloaks, "can mount dual cannons," singularity cores, few points difference in some stat or another). The ones that aren't, still get their consoles and traits boxed up and made available for the other factions (for a fraction of the price of the ship).

    So yeah, if you like to collect huge list of Admiralty cards, Fed-Rom's the ticket. Otherwise, it's pretty much down to what kind of backstory you want your character to have and what kind of clothes you want your character to wear?

    And the simple fact is the answer to that for most players is Starfleet.
  • patrickngopatrickngo Member Posts: 9,534 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    After the initial storylines are over, all the "factions" play exactly the same. Sure, some offer larger ship lists but that's generally only relevant for collecting Admiralty cards. Almost all faction ships made in recent years are more or less copypasted for everyone with minimal differences (cloaks, "can mount dual cannons," singularity cores, few points difference in some stat or another). The ones that aren't, still get their consoles and traits boxed up and made available for the other factions (for a fraction of the price of the ship).

    So yeah, if you like to collect huge list of Admiralty cards, Fed-Rom's the ticket. Otherwise, it's pretty much down to what kind of backstory you want your character to have and what kind of clothes you want your character to wear?

    And the simple fact is the answer to that for most players is Starfleet.

    the term you're looking for, is "Homogenized". Everyone, regardless of their supposed 'Faction' ends up being a Starfleet officer in all but name.

    There's a reason for this, of course. as I said, Cryptic doesn't have (and never had, and likely never will have) the resources to do anything else with the line. They seriously do NOT have the resources to develop the game in any other way-they don't have the manpower, money, time, or necessary permissions from CBS to build their own canon for aspects like the Klingon Empire, Romulans, or Dominion-they're neither inclined, nor allowed to develop those factions beyond "Starfleet's Sidekick" and whatever has been explicitly already done in the canon.

    Futher, as you've noted above; by choosing Starfleet/Federation (or more particularly Federation aligned Romulan) a player gets everything, gameplay-wise, that KDF players get (aside from a few low-level adventures as Starfleet's pawn in the empire and some long-not-updated costume options), while also retaining everything Federation players get, plus better stats over-all.

    there's literally no draw for anyone who wasn't already a Klingon Fan, nor is there gameplay variety to stimulate interest in the less populated F(r)actions. No draw in terms of story, game mechanics, or options/alterations to gameplay. Instead, there are very good reasons to stick with Starfleet's pet Romulan, including superior gameplay mechanics, the ability to really, really, really buff your admiralty stack for fast dilithium earning, and access to everything game-mechanics-wise that you would have from either of the 'main' factions, PLUS better options in doffing and larger fleets and player population.

    and, of course, relevance. as a player faction, KDF is completely irrelevant to the game, with no unique storyline, gameplay or mechanics options, a history of bugs and visible, ongoing neglect for the unique visual aspects, and editorial hostility from the Lead Developer (Al "Captaingeko" Rivera, who's kicked off a feud with the KDF playerbase, and only fed the flames on a constant basis with trolling and disparaging remarks going all the way from 2011 to the present.)

    to remain a KDF player, is to acknowledge that you're never going to be fully supported, and that you're unwelcome at Geko's gaming table, and to be fine with that, because it's not going to change.
    KDF: Not supported by Cryptic, because according to them, we're not 'Real' Star Trek fans.

    Well, TRIBBLE them, I'll play KDF anyway.

    "We are the Federation. Resistance is futile, we will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own."-Cryptic Studios

    Advocacy
    simple logic process:

    The body is filled with so much blood...It's always more than you think!! -Dr. Dinosaur

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