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Age of Discovery, lack of new playable ships

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  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    It could be that Cryptic is working on a Fed/KDF ship bundle for the January Discovery content release.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    lordmerc22 wrote: »
    Actually the Europa is a good ship for engineers that stay on threat and mastery/console is decent - its not a good ship for the average tac or sci char though. I just like to play KDF side more so would like a few ships there(The "Envoy" in the Binary Stars battle, lol)
    STO calls it a Cleave battleship. Allegedly the devs are planning to give it a special power that involves ramming things. :p I can't wait to try that out. :D
    Not just STO: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Klingon_cleave_ship
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    thing is, USS Europa would need to be actively holding themselves in place for that scene to work. (here's why: you know what happens when you hit something in a frictionless environment? it moves. Newton, for every action right? for the Cleave to, well...'cleave' the target has to be held stationary or thrusting against it.)

    ofc, this IS Discovery we're talking, and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they think constant thrust=constant acceleration velocity...
    Yes, it's moving so slowly it should just push the other ship away. That cutscene is almost as implausible as T'kuvma's boasting about "klingon supremacy" at the end...after having his giant fleet casually blown out of the sky by 5 players and he himself only surviving because his plot armored ship doesn't die when we kill it for the umpteenth time. :D
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    I forgot Star Trek was a science documentary and all of the previous series stuck to hard science with regards to Starship movement.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Unless, of course, the Cleave battleship is useing tractor beams to keep her in place.

    Come on, guys, you can find technobabble for this kind of stuff on your own, can you not?
    Actually the Europa was using a tractor beam to hold another ship in place...

    Or we could ascribe it to a side effect of how inertial dampeners work :p
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    thing is, USS Europa would need to be actively holding themselves in place for that scene to work. (here's why: you know what happens when you hit something in a frictionless environment? it moves. Newton, for every action right? for the Cleave to, well...'cleave' the target has to be held stationary or thrusting against it.)

    ofc, this IS Discovery we're talking, and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they think constant thrust=constant acceleration velocity...

    Sci-Fi only cares for such details if they make the scene look cool. At least often enough. The Scimitar/Sovereign crash in Nemesis wasn't particularly realistic either. (In fact, I'd argue most collisions in Star Trek aren't. When these ships have shields up and even unshielded can survive antimatter-fueled explosion, some slow speed collision really shouldn't do much harm.)
    And of course, Star Trek has its tractor beams which generally seem to not obey physics either. And the ship seems to have been using his impulse engines at the same, maybe to get away from the asteroid field or at least for station keeping in the gravity field of the binary stars.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    thing is, USS Europa would need to be actively holding themselves in place for that scene to work. (here's why: you know what happens when you hit something in a frictionless environment? it moves. Newton, for every action right? for the Cleave to, well...'cleave' the target has to be held stationary or thrusting against it.)

    ofc, this IS Discovery we're talking, and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they think constant thrust=constant acceleration velocity...
    Sci-Fi only cares for such details if they make the scene look cool. At least often enough. The Scimitar/Sovereign crash in Nemesis wasn't particularly realistic either. (In fact, I'd argue most collisions in Star Trek aren't. When these ships have shields up and even unshielded can survive antimatter-fueled explosion, some slow speed collision really shouldn't do much harm.)
    And of course, Star Trek has its tractor beams which generally seem to not obey physics either. And the ship seems to have been using his impulse engines at the same, maybe to get away from the asteroid field or at least for station keeping in the gravity field of the binary stars.
    In some cases you can write it off as cinematic license and that it's basically slo-mo.
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  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    > @patrickngo said:
    > markhawkman wrote: »
    >
    > lordmerc22 wrote: »
    >
    > Actually the Europa is a good ship for engineers that stay on threat and mastery/console is decent - its not a good ship for the average tac or sci char though. I just like to play KDF side more so would like a few ships there(The "Envoy" in the Binary Stars battle, lol)
    >
    >
    >
    > STO calls it a Cleave battleship. Allegedly the devs are planning to give it a special power that involves ramming things. :p I can't wait to try that out. :D mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > markhawkman wrote: »
    >
    > mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    >
    > markhawkman wrote: »
    >
    > reyan01 wrote: »
    >
    > We KNOW they are coming - it's only a case of when.
    >
    > I mean, overlooking gameplay and in-game reasoning, they've made high-quality models for these ships that we're get to SEE at least in the currently active event. In fact one could argue that the entire purpose of having our playable ship receive a 'holographic overlay' is to whet our appetite for the eventual C-store model(s).
    >
    > It's only a matter of time.
    >
    >
    >
    > Yes, and giving us a 30 second time period where all we can do is stare at it from multiple angles.... Gave me time to notice one of them seems to have hangar bays...
    >
    >
    >
    > Well, most Starfleet ships have hangar bays, don't they?
    >
    >
    >
    > Yes, but not THIS large. :p Also this one has FORWARD mounted dual hangars.
    >
    >
    >
    > I know one ship that looks like that, but it seems a rather small ship, so while having these two bays in the first place seems a bit excessive and makes me wonder what its purpose was - but the the bays itself aren't that big, just big in comparison to the ship.
    >
    >
    >
    > Yes, it's a rather small hull. But the hangar bays are what makes it different from it's contemporaries.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > you know, the Cleave...
    >
    > hmmmm...
    >
    > so when it shows up in a lockbox, or something, you KNOW someone is gonna name theirs "Yamato". (for those under the age of 30, that's a reference to 'Starblazers')

    Cryptic should get with the folks in Japan who own the Space Battleship Yamato IP an do a crossover collab. They would make a fortune selling Yamatos, especially if the Wave Motion Gun was the "I Win" button it was portrayed as in the various series.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    thing is, USS Europa would need to be actively holding themselves in place for that scene to work. (here's why: you know what happens when you hit something in a frictionless environment? it moves. Newton, for every action right? for the Cleave to, well...'cleave' the target has to be held stationary or thrusting against it.)

    ofc, this IS Discovery we're talking, and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they think constant thrust=constant acceleration velocity...

    Sci-Fi only cares for such details if they make the scene look cool. At least often enough. The Scimitar/Sovereign crash in Nemesis wasn't particularly realistic either. (In fact, I'd argue most collisions in Star Trek aren't. When these ships have shields up and even unshielded can survive antimatter-fueled explosion, some slow speed collision really shouldn't do much harm.)
    And of course, Star Trek has its tractor beams which generally seem to not obey physics either. And the ship seems to have been using his impulse engines at the same, maybe to get away from the asteroid field or at least for station keeping in the gravity field of the binary stars.
    The thing is, that scene DOESN'T look cool. It looks totally stupid and contrived, like a car hitting a pedestrian at 2 mph and the bumper slowly cutting him in half where he stands, when common sense nevermind science would say the man would be pushed back instead.
  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    Stupid and contrived is the only thing EsTeeDee does well
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    thing is, USS Europa would need to be actively holding themselves in place for that scene to work. (here's why: you know what happens when you hit something in a frictionless environment? it moves. Newton, for every action right? for the Cleave to, well...'cleave' the target has to be held stationary or thrusting against it.)

    ofc, this IS Discovery we're talking, and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they think constant thrust=constant acceleration velocity...
    Sci-Fi only cares for such details if they make the scene look cool. At least often enough. The Scimitar/Sovereign crash in Nemesis wasn't particularly realistic either. (In fact, I'd argue most collisions in Star Trek aren't. When these ships have shields up and even unshielded can survive antimatter-fueled explosion, some slow speed collision really shouldn't do much harm.)
    And of course, Star Trek has its tractor beams which generally seem to not obey physics either. And the ship seems to have been using his impulse engines at the same, maybe to get away from the asteroid field or at least for station keeping in the gravity field of the binary stars.
    The thing is, that scene DOESN'T look cool. It looks totally stupid and contrived, like a car hitting a pedestrian at 2 mph and the bumper slowly cutting him in half where he stands, when common sense nevermind science would say the man would be pushed back instead.
    Yeah... space ships aren't billiard balls... also, in a high speed collision you really CAN dismember people. (yes I'm ignoring that you stipulated 2mph, because that's an absurd example.)
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  • darthkuribohdarthkuriboh Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    I have more of a "lack of desire to even play it" issue
  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    thing is, USS Europa would need to be actively holding themselves in place for that scene to work. (here's why: you know what happens when you hit something in a frictionless environment? it moves. Newton, for every action right? for the Cleave to, well...'cleave' the target has to be held stationary or thrusting against it.)

    ofc, this IS Discovery we're talking, and I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they think constant thrust=constant acceleration velocity...

    Sci-Fi only cares for such details if they make the scene look cool. At least often enough. The Scimitar/Sovereign crash in Nemesis wasn't particularly realistic either. (In fact, I'd argue most collisions in Star Trek aren't. When these ships have shields up and even unshielded can survive antimatter-fueled explosion, some slow speed collision really shouldn't do much harm.)
    And of course, Star Trek has its tractor beams which generally seem to not obey physics either. And the ship seems to have been using his impulse engines at the same, maybe to get away from the asteroid field or at least for station keeping in the gravity field of the binary stars.
    The thing is, that scene DOESN'T look cool. It looks totally stupid and contrived, like a car hitting a pedestrian at 2 mph and the bumper slowly cutting him in half where he stands, when common sense nevermind science would say the man would be pushed back instead.

    Yeah - whilst I actually really like Discovery, the Europa scene WAS stupid.

    As you say, the Europa should've been pushed backward. But even then, what the heck were the crew doing?? Didn't see any attempt made to back the ship away from the aggressor - they just sat there and let the Klingonship cut through them - their only 'strategy' seemed to be "blow the ship up in the hope it takes the Klingon ship with it".

    I think, the fact it tractors(holds if you prefer) another ship adds to the ship mass making it harder to push since the 2 ships are connected through that tractor beam. While Star Trek and most Sci Fi series in general also doesnt seem to bother with that fact in space normally a ship that accelarated keeps moving unless opposite force is applied so in hypothetical conditions "thrusters" should push towards backwards while rear ones should push forward. And yes I know such a ship would look visually ugly having forward and rear thrusting too, and its why sci-fi dont bother to go into advanced science, (the alternate is a ship that rotates like a flying saucer so it makes corrective thrusts) But in keeping by frontal and rear thrusters on spot so it isnt moved by panatary magnetic fields it would be fairly stable on spot and a hit coming into it would hit harder because the thrusters force would make it resist a portion of that push

    Just saying its hard to follow completely science in a game or a tv show cause they would go closer to less fun, more simulation

    That said while I dont hate it, I dont like discovery much either. I only like the Sarcophagus and the Cleave from klingon ships and somewhat the Europa(Nimitz) from federation ships, the klingon look sort of like space Uruk-hai and sound like having a difficulty in speech at times and important battles arent strategic at all, in fact they are full-for-effects fast battles or a decisive battle being reduced to almost no battle at all(sarcophagus vs uss discovery is hardly a battle happening, just a short infiltration of enemy ship and kaboom). Its watchable but definitely expected much better.

  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Yeah - whilst I actually really like Discovery, the Europa scene WAS stupid.

    As you say, the Europa should've been pushed backward. But even then, what the heck were the crew doing?? Didn't see any attempt made to back the ship away from the aggressor - they just sat there and let the Klingonship cut through them - their only 'strategy' seemed to be "blow the ship up in the hope it takes the Klingon ship with it".

    What? The Europa took the Trek equivalent of a snowplow moving at speed, head on (with the cleave decloaking after the impact.) They didn't -let- the Klingons cut through them (the ship was gone in less than a minute and the cleave, again, was cloaked until after impact) and they didn't self destruct the ship (how is this the null hypothesis here? Nothing was shown to the effect.) Doubtlessly, it was destroyed by the collision and you only need to invoke EPS grid overload and core breach to explain why (in the moment) and look to episodes like this one to more generally explain how serious collisions in space can be.

    As for "should have been pushed back" (a la gentle nudge between tanker and tug boat)...seriously? Here's a car moving at car velocity.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N46WtKRiqB4
    What we're talking about are space ships capable of incredible speeds in real space, intent on ramming, and quite massive ones at that. Remember F=M*A, the size of the cleave ship is an important factor here (even if the cleave wasn't able to reach an especially high speed on Trek terms before the impact, it's a serious collision regardless.) Yes, in addition to cutting through the Europa the joined system of cleave+nimitz should have moved backwards as well (as the Europa was partially resisting the giant death blade, force from the cleave was being transferred to the Europa) but note that camera perspective is fixed relative to the action, not in absolute space (it's easily excused unless there's a very close object that should have been giving more of a parallax effect. Then it's just a simple oversight by the FX team if technobabble about inertial dampers is out of the question.)


    PS. playable ships in AOD folks. Note how we're dissecting the rationalization behind a bit of "stupid" cinematography (never mind the intended narrative function behind it, its role in character development and series theme, and what we've excused in the past in the name of appreciating a story in spite of the FX.)

    tumblr_meh7d99FIW1r0zqt5o1_400.gif
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,100 Arc User
    Putting your shields up as you're entering a combat zone would have been a good idea.
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    Typhoon Class please!
  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    > @thay8472 said:
    > Putting your shields up as you're entering a combat zone would have been a good idea.

    This is Millenial Trek, Starfleet probably did an investigation to find out who on Europa ordered the self-destruct so they could Court-Martial them posthumously for Cultural Imperialism or something.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Yeah - whilst I actually really like Discovery, the Europa scene WAS stupid.

    As you say, the Europa should've been pushed backward. But even then, what the heck were the crew doing?? Didn't see any attempt made to back the ship away from the aggressor - they just sat there and let the Klingonship cut through them - their only 'strategy' seemed to be "blow the ship up in the hope it takes the Klingon ship with it".

    What? The Europa took the Trek equivalent of a snowplow moving at speed, head on (with the cleave decloaking after the impact.) They didn't -let- the Klingons cut through them (the ship was gone in less than a minute and the cleave, again, was cloaked until after impact) and they didn't self destruct the ship (how is this the null hypothesis here? Nothing was shown to the effect.) Doubtlessly, it was destroyed by the collision and you only need to invoke EPS grid overload and core breach to explain why (in the moment) and look to episodes like this one to more generally explain how serious collisions in space can be.

    As for "should have been pushed back" (a la gentle nudge between tanker and tug boat)...seriously? Here's a car moving at car velocity.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N46WtKRiqB4
    What we're talking about are space ships capable of incredible speeds in real space, intent on ramming, and quite massive ones at that. Remember F=M*A, the size of the cleave ship is an important factor here (even if the cleave wasn't able to reach an especially high speed on Trek terms before the impact, it's a serious collision regardless.) Yes, in addition to cutting through the Europa the joined system of cleave+nimitz should have moved backwards as well (as the Europa was partially resisting the giant death blade, force from the cleave was being transferred to the Europa) but note that camera perspective is fixed relative to the action, not in absolute space (it's easily excused unless there's a very close object that should have been giving more of a parallax effect. Then it's just a simple oversight by the FX team if technobabble about inertial dampers is out of the question.)
    Do actually watch the scene from the show before arguing about it. The Cleave did not hit "at speed." It was moving at the equivalent of walking pace.

    It actually takes 20 seconds from the initial impact (as shown by the Admiral's holocram doing the Star Trek Shake) before the ship even begins to get damaged at all (the entire damage animation was shown on screen, and it starts at 20 seconds after impact). It then takes another 50 seconds for the Cleave to get through half the saucer. Then the Europa self-destructs.

    And we know the Europa self-destructs, because the crew of the Shenzhou says so (we also see escape pods leaving earlier). This is not replicated in the game cutscene.

    If the Cleave had actually hit at speed, the scene would've made sense. But then they wouldn't have had over a minute of screen-time to show the Shenzou crew first wondering what was going on and then gaping at the spectacle. Rather the ship would've simply gone splat like the Mythbusters' car.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    K. didn't remember the self destruct line but the Cleave ship is accelerating into Europa and it is doing so with a massive blade at the front where the speed + mass of the ship is cutting through because that force is being concentrated at a point. Less snow plow at highway speed (from my initial watch I was more under the impression that the shields had slowed the original hit, that was the rumbling) and more ice breaker. I don't see at all why you guys have a problem with this scene or why its relevant to this thread (beyond a Nimitz class being involved.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RfJhmfKb_s

    Just pull her away? Nope, the problem is only clear when the cleave is through ~1/3rd the saucer and it decloaks (3:52). Escape pods are launched a mere 18 seconds later (4:10). Time between losing comms and cleave decloak is also only 32 seconds (3:20 to 3:52, 3:20 to 3:39 for major structural damage. That's maybe enough time for a single order and a helmsmen to finish inputting the command provided instant realization) in which time the Europa is simply being destroyed without a clear cause. Even if there was an immediate reaction, it would have only slowed the destruction of the Europa because it would have needed to pull back faster (from a stationary position) than the cleave was already accelerating forward (unlikely under any circumstance given their designs), assuming of course control and power systems remained sufficiently intact over that time to even have a chance at survival (and we see the nacelles flickering during the attack, so...)

    (Immediately demonstrating that the FED isn't adequately prepared for a conflict taking place on Klingon terms? Nah, must be just stupid.)

    Most likely, a perfectly timed reverse would have only somewhat decreased the rate of cutting up to a point where the Europa's propulsions systems failed (likely just a matter of seconds), and keep in mind that this kind of attack was unprecedented in FED military experience and unexpected regardless, given the situation (a perfectly timed maneuver is not a reasonable expectation in context.) The loss of the Europa is emblematic of the state and intent of both the Federation and Klingons which is why regardless of these nit picks it functions well per the intended narrative. It provides a lot of faction characterization while still giving dramatic spectacle and a powerful visual (hence its replication in the TFO. It's effective story telling in a visual medium and the alternative [Cleave moving at a much higher velocity, immediately destroying the Europa] likely would not have functioned anywhere near as well in that story telling context [less apparent what happened, whiplash story turn, heavy exposition required after the fact to compensate for the loss of visuals explaining the scene at a rate that's easily appreciable to the audience.])

    To me, the critiques RE. this scene are way off the mark in all respects (and again, even just with respect to the thread's title.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    > @thay8472 said:
    > Putting your shields up as you're entering a combat zone would have been a good idea.

    This is Millenial Trek, Starfleet probably did an investigation to find out who on Europa ordered the self-destruct so they could Court-Martial them posthumously for Cultural Imperialism or something.

    At some point you took a left turn from the road of sanity and took your wheels off so you couldn't turn back.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Yeah - whilst I actually really like Discovery, the Europa scene WAS stupid.

    As you say, the Europa should've been pushed backward. But even then, what the heck were the crew doing?? Didn't see any attempt made to back the ship away from the aggressor - they just sat there and let the Klingonship cut through them - their only 'strategy' seemed to be "blow the ship up in the hope it takes the Klingon ship with it".

    The Cleave ship is going fast (or as fast as it's possible at impulse), it's the old 'pulling the tablecloth from under the crockery' trick. I'm surprised they managed to get to the escape pods before detonating the ship. Though I'm sure the 20 or so seconds in Voyager would have been enough time to go to the Magic Meeting Room and fire Seven at the Klingons or something.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

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    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    K. didn't remember the self destruct line but the Cleave ship is accelerating into Europa and it is doing so with a massive blade at the front where the speed + mass of the ship is cutting through because that force is being concentrated at a point. Less snow plow at highway speed (from my initial watch I was more under the impression that the shields had slowed the original hit, that was the rumbling) and more ice breaker. I don't see at all why you guys have a problem with this scene or why its relevant to this thread (beyond a Nimitz class being involved.)
    An icebreaker doesn't cut through ice, but crushes it by pushing down on it. Small loose pieces of ice would still be pushed aside.

    And I suppose I don't see at all why you have such a need to try to defend it, either.
    artan42 wrote: »
    The Cleave ship is going fast (or as fast as it's possible at impulse)
    "Half a saucer-length per minute" is not fast.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    I'm surprised they managed to get to the escape pods before detonating the ship. Though I'm sure the 20 or so seconds in Voyager would have been enough time to go to the Magic Meeting Room and fire Seven at the Klingons or something.​​
    Or emergency site-to-site transports. Sure it's not reliable when your EPS grid is buckling but if it's that or dying....
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    warpangel wrote: »

    And I suppose I don't see at all why you have such a need to try to defend it, either.

    Oi, seriously? I stated explicitly that I think this scene works very well in a narrative context by, at once, characterizing the FED and KDF (their positions and mentalities in the war) without heavy exposition through immediately appreciable and striking visuals. It's a highlight of the show (illustrating how action can be used to compliment deeper story telling and world building) and I'm not particularly enthused that yet another AoD thread has been sacrificed at the alter of detail oriented complaining about the show (this is irrelevant to STO, any complaint you might have about the exact timing of the scene [its possible to argue that not all the reaction shots of the crew are strictly necessary, though they help guide the audience through the scene] is moot to Cryptic's paired down recreation of the Europa's destruction.)

    What's left? Well, the Cleave ship is a very likely candidate for an upcoming release though feedback regarding a cinematic probably isn't going to strongly influence its gameplay design. It's difficult to imagine Cryptic going any other direction than ramming, even if the Europa's destruction struck some as a tad drawn out.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    which is why it went right back OUT of use.

    Indeed, we don't see this exact tactic or ship class again (it's a surprise move, which says a lot about T'Kuvma) and I think the specialty of the cleave ship puts it as a strong contender for the next promo ship (and I would say multifaction but we'll have to see how Cryptic handles the disparate house ships of the KDF. They could treat them all as KDF or only approach some of the most recognizably Klingon as c-store candidates with the more unusual types releasing through other means [ie. promo, lobi, and lock box]. Personally I'd like these all to be c-store but with Kael's recent statement that Cryptic's looking at a variety of distribution means for DSC vessels this is what I'm expecting.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Ramming,as a tactic, is somethign that sounds great and heroic and kewl to writers that basically slept through their seventh grade science courses or who've watched too many hours of anime growing up, and once had some cache among early steam-era admirals who didn't have to fight real naval battles. Once real naval battles in the age of steam (which was what brought it back after centuries of being obsolete in the age of Sail) it was again shown to be 'not very effective' and certainly not as effective as using your guns.

    which is why it went right back OUT of use.
    Realistically that's a matter of engagement ranges. And T'Kuvma seems to have found a solution for that....
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
    So, I'm assuming all of this debate must play into the thread topic by trying to incorporate the ramming tactic into some sort of ship power?
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    So, I'm assuming all of this debate must play into the thread topic by trying to incorporate the ramming tactic into some sort of ship power?
    In one of the livestreams it was suggested that the cleave needs to have a ramming power. :p
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