From the patch note: Battle at the Binaries - a 14-day event with a major US holiday in the middle

wideningxgyre · November 2018

Seems like poor timing to put such a long event requiring such a lengthy grind in the middle of Thanksgiving, a time where a huge portion of the population travels (the single largest travel period in the US), many for 4-5 days or more. I know many folks who take the whole week as a holiday to travel to family.

I recognize that it's only a US holiday, and there's always a holiday going on somewhere in the world. Still, it's one of the bigger ones in one of the largest markets for the game (I'm guessing), and this is one of the longer grinds.

duncanidaho11 · November 2018

The 3 week event by design provides 7 days of wiggle room. With 5 full days of travel that still provides a buffer of 2 for those who have major thanksgiving plans (which doesn't include all of the US, only those with major thanksgiving plans. Not everyone travels and not everyone travels for that long over the holiday.) It's close but it's still totally doable. The only folks missing out are those who take extended personal vacations over the holiday. In which case, ask for another buy in like the last Breach event. If it's not being implemented this time, special circumstances of the holiday could tip the argument back in its favor.

wideningxgyre · November 2018

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

The 3 week event by design provides 7 days of wiggle room. With 5 full days of travel that still provides a buffer of 2 for those who have major thanksgiving plans (which doesn't include all of the US, only those with major thanksgiving plans. Not everyone travels and not everyone travels for that long over the holiday.) It's close but it's still totally doable. The only folks missing out are those who take extended personal vacations over the holiday. In which case, ask for another buy in like the last Breach event. If it's not being implemented this time, special circumstances of the holiday could tip the argument back in its favor.

I don't dispute any of your points points. It just seemed like poor planning to create the problem in the first place - though obviously there are other constraints and calendar events about which we know nothing at this time.

It could very well be that there is something else planned with which this cannot overlap - although why this couldn't be a 14-day event requiring 9-tokens or or a 10-day event requiring 7 tokens that started later, who can say.

where2r1 · November 2018

Geee... let me see: STO Event???? OR Family and Thanksgiving.
Yeah, gonna be doing Thanksgiving. Totally not a dilemma for me. LOL!

The day after Thanksgiving...I am gonna start decorating for Christmas.

thunderfoot · November 2018

Q's Winter Wonderland also has a major holiday smack in the middle of it. Not seen you complain about that yet.

duncanidaho11 · November 2018

wideningxgyre wrote: »

I don't dispute any of your points points. It just seemed like poor planning to create the problem in the first place - though obviously there are other constraints and calendar events about which we know nothing at this time.

It could very well be that there is something else planned with which this cannot overlap - although why this couldn't be a 14-day event requiring 9-tokens or or a 10-day event requiring 7 tokens that started later, who can say.

Or that they like to keep to a certain cadence of releases to maintain player engagement over time and the 14 day event is a tested scheme with infrastructure behind it that doesn't need to be modified because some people in the US decide to take extended personal vacations over the thanksgiving week. Modifying the structure of the event to account for thanksgiving doesn't seem to be a proportionate response. What does, if anything, is adding token package to the c-store like we saw during the last Breach event so folks able to afford taking all that time off don't have to worry about what they'll miss out on in a video game. At the very least then, players affected by the holiday aren't locked out while the event runs per normal for everyone else (who also don't buy in.)

(Personal choices are leading directly to the conflict and the circumstances for those life/game decisions aren't exactly unfortunate. One can only take this issue so far before the response simply becomes #FirstWorldProblems. )

kelador · November 2018

There is never a good time to do an event that fits everyone.... also Thanksgiving is a US holiday so only effects US players and there is no stats to say its the larger portion of the population as you state... most of the limited time sales are done during a time table and lots of people moan that they miss out on those.. I know I tend to as they tend to start during the night and finish before I get home from work.

sheldonlcooper · November 2018

For many years now there has been a 3 week event leading up to Q. Last year they reset Q back to the latest possible start instead of letting it start around Nov29. This year it's one day earlier than last. But Thanksgiving is always impacted. You can still manage with a week's leeway.

wideningxgyre · November 2018

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

wideningxgyre wrote: »

I don't dispute any of your points points. It just seemed like poor planning to create the problem in the first place - though obviously there are other constraints and calendar events about which we know nothing at this time.

It could very well be that there is something else planned with which this cannot overlap - although why this couldn't be a 14-day event requiring 9-tokens or or a 10-day event requiring 7 tokens that started later, who can say.

Or that they like to keep to a certain cadence of releases to maintain player engagement over time and the 14 day event is a tested scheme with infrastructure behind it that doesn't need to be modified because some people in the US decide to take extended personal vacations over the thanksgiving week. Modifying the structure of the event to account for thanksgiving doesn't seem to be a proportionate response. What does, if anything, is adding token package to the c-store like we saw during the last Breach event so folks able to afford taking all that time off don't have to worry about what they'll miss out on in a video game. At the very least then, players affected by the holiday aren't locked out while the event runs per normal for everyone else (who also don't buy in.)

(Personal choices are leading directly to the conflict and the circumstances for those life/game decisions aren't exactly unfortunate. One can only take this issue so far before the response simply becomes #FirstWorldProblems. )

You make some valid points. I do question that the 21-day/14 token event structure is somehow sacrosanct and unchangeable, as events have gone through several changes over the past couple years.

I do concur that participating, or not, as well as traveling, or not, are personal choices from the player's perspective. However, the events are intended to increase player engagement among other things. Why time an event that doesn't maximize the opportunity to achieve that.

As for the Winter event as others have pointed out, the period for participating is a lot longer, so it's not as comparable.

I thought it was clear by the phrasing, but I guess I have to say it - I'm not complaining that I will personally be somehow bereft by having the event over Thanksgiving. My point, as stated, was that it SEEMED like poor timing. As with the death by a thousand clicks from the new reputation tier or the RFTOs that don't separate space/ground, there are some decisions that seem to occur without thinking through all the consequences (Based on the, ahem, strong sentiments on those subjects expressed in other threads - we certainly don't need to rehash those here as I was only saying that there ARE strong feelings.)

THAT was the point, not that I would somehow be personally disadvantaged by the timing of the event or that it was somehow unfair. Apparently, no one else seems to agree about the timing of the event, and it's just me. I can accept it if that's the case. It merely struck me as a strange decision.

warpangel · November 2018

Never ceases to amaze me how, despite STO's incredibly easy and minimalist event participation, some people still shamelessly whine about it being too much.

Most games I play specifically aim to run events on all holidays. Any excuse to put up limited-time content. And not of the once-per-day variety, either.

duncanidaho11 · November 2018

wideningxgyre wrote: »

You make some valid points. I do question that the 21-day/14 token event structure is somehow sacrosanct and unchangeable, as events have gone through several changes over the past couple years.

We have seen variation (see. Sompek weekend events) but we've never seen Cryptic tailor the exact window of any of these events to external holidays, beyond adding on a few days to the running of (say) the Summer event to account for downtime. Changing the 21-14 token structure would require rebalancing the event. Ie. adjusting how much you get (in accordance with the relative difference in effort) as well as the technical requirements of 2/3rds the new time. Depending on how complex the system is that could take some effort and its always worth assuming when making development suggestions that it's not as easy as we think it is. These inputs could all be easily modified, or embedded deep in the technical structure of the event (depends on whether they anticipated making fine-scale changes.)

Plus shortening the event brings into question what else do you fill that time with. While some folks in the US are on vacation the rest of the STO population is roughly pursuing business as usual. They would have had event participation to tide them over during the holiday but with that rescaled the question becomes "what does Cryptic do to compensate these players?" In trying to make Binary more accessible to a select few travelers in one region, a population problem is created with direct implications for maintaining interest and log ins (versus "not having access to a very specific and incidental exclusive" on the part of those who are going to be out of town in any case.)

That's probably why the timing isn't the overriding factor here. A problem can be articulated with respect to a select subgroup in the US but that's operating within a wider ecosystem (which constricts the apparently "easy call" of making sure nothing of substance is occurring during the week, in case some folks miss out.

)

bubblegirl2015 · November 2018

It is an MMO and not custom made to individual player need. IMO this is perfect timing for me just because it is the "holidays". Of course, everyone might have a different take on the holidays. Then again why do a summer/winter or friday13/halloween/anniversary or even first contact day? I could say that on the contrary this is GREAT planning from Devs and do thank them for taking this into consideration. Like others said there is plenty of days extra that were allotted to do if you miss any of them.

Last, from a global community perspective lots (or perhaps a majority of players) do not know or even celebrate US holidays. After all this is STO and should be inclusive of all cultures even in our archaic and primitive human nature of looking at things from a centrist perspective but the OP addressed this already. I just think the vast majority of the playerbase does not care about US holidays.

wideningxgyre · November 2018

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

wideningxgyre wrote: »

You make some valid points. I do question that the 21-day/14 token event structure is somehow sacrosanct and unchangeable, as events have gone through several changes over the past couple years.

We have seen variation (see. Sompek weekend events) but we've never seen Cryptic tailor the exact window of any of these events to external holidays, beyond adding on a few days to the running of (say) the Summer event to account for downtime. Changing the 21-14 token structure would require rebalancing the event. Ie. adjusting how much you get (in accordance with the relative difference in effort) as well as the technical requirements of 2/3rds the new time. Depending on how complex the system is that could take some effort and its always worth assuming when making development suggestions that it's not as easy as we think it is. These inputs could all be easily modified, or embedded deep in the technical structure of the event (depends on whether they anticipated making fine-scale changes.)

Plus shortening the event brings into question what else do you fill that time with. While some folks in the US are on vacation the rest of the STO population is roughly pursuing business as usual. They would have had event participation to tide them over during the holiday but with that rescaled the question becomes "what does Cryptic do to compensate these players?" In trying to make Binary more accessible to a select few travelers in one region, a population problem is created with direct implications for maintaining interest and log ins (versus "not having access to a very specific and incidental exclusive" on the part of those who are going to be out of town in any case.)

That's probably why the timing isn't the overriding factor here. A problem can be articulated with respect to a select subgroup in the US but that's operating within a wider ecosystem (which constricts the apparently "easy call" of making sure nothing of substance is occurring during the week, in case some folks miss out. )

All very valid points.

I appreciate your willingness to articulate a cogent and thoughtful point of view, rather than telling me over and over to get over it and that Thanksgiving is a US holiday (a point I acknowledged right off the bat) since my point was about the impact on the broader player base and not my own ability to complete the event.

gaevsman · November 2018

If you can't play all (as me, lot of work), just buy the TFO Bundle, 10 tokens and an upgrade to maxium level for any gear… thou for now is giving me an error... hope they fix it soon..

rattler2 · November 2018

reyan01 wrote: »

Where was it announced that they're doing the 'skip' bundle for this event?

I believe as of the last 3 week event they're starting to add this option for players who want the shiny, but either don't want to go a full 14 days or can't.

As for the event timing... I had a feeling it was coming soon due to the fact that we also have the Winter Event coming up. Binary's gonna lead us right into the Winter Event.

wideningxgyre · November 2018

valoreah wrote: »

wideningxgyre wrote: »

... It just seemed like poor planning to create the problem in the first place ...

Any date(s) Cryptic selects for anything are a "problem" for someone.

True. Again, a point I previously acknowledged.

However, the US market is likely one of the largest player markets overall and Thanksgiving one of the most widely celebrated holidays in that market.

While no published data exists, you can look at few data points to make a supportable inference regarding the relative importance of the US market to the game - the relative size of the overall videogaming markets (top five: China, US, Japan, Korea, Germany); online population (China: 850mm, US:265mm, Japan: 121mm, Korea: 48mm, Germany: 76mm); and the global revenue of recent trek movies as a proxy for franchise popularity - ST:Beyond total: $343mm (China:$65mm/19%, US: $158mm/46%, $5mm/1.5%, Korea: $9mm/2.6%, Germany: $15mm/4.5%).

Duncanidaho's argument seems to be a more compelling rationale for the timing (or seeming lack of consideration for the US market).

Additionally, the rest of the game appears organized to reflect the importance of the US market (or at least the sleep/work schedule of the people running the game). If nothing else, the recent aborted effort of Sompek suggests that planning a big event with time constraints during a major US holiday might not be a great idea. Who's going to be around to fix it if things go south?

I'm not insisting that the game should be US-centric. I'm just saying that it seems to be that way - and wondered what kind of thought or planning went into the calendar.

Frankly, the question of how things get calendared and what are the key considerations are is not an outlandish thing to consider. Wouldn't we all like to believe that there is rhyme and reason behind all the key decisions of a game we enjoy, spend a significant amount of time playing, and spend a lot of money supporting?

But, it seems I'm an island on this point.

rattler2 · November 2018

At the moment its an educated guess. They tested the waters with the last 3 week event. I don't see a reason why they couldn't do another test again, unless they withhold the box to get maximum participation in the new event. Which kinda doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.

baddmoonrizin · November 2018

Consider that this event was originally planned to launch last week, but was delayed due to technical issues. Even so, there was still enough time to get it in before the Winter Event.

wideningxgyre · November 2018

rattler2 wrote: »

At the moment its an educated guess. They tested the waters with the last 3 week event. I don't see a reason why they couldn't do another test again, unless they withhold the box to get maximum participation in the new event. Which kinda doesn't make sense from a business standpoint.

There is a bundle with 10 for 800 zen. Includes an ultimate upgrade.

The vouchers seem to be character locked when obtained from the event, so be careful which one you use to purchase.

lordsteve1 · November 2018

Whatever dates they picked would be bad for someone, somewhere around the globe because its a global playerbase.

I see no reason why they should need to pander to any particular group or that opens a real can of worms.

crypticarmsman · November 2018

wideningxgyre wrote: »

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

The 3 week event by design provides 7 days of wiggle room. With 5 full days of travel that still provides a buffer of 2 for those who have major thanksgiving plans (which doesn't include all of the US, only those with major thanksgiving plans. Not everyone travels and not everyone travels for that long over the holiday.) It's close but it's still totally doable. The only folks missing out are those who take extended personal vacations over the holiday. In which case, ask for another buy in like the last Breach event. If it's not being implemented this time, special circumstances of the holiday could tip the argument back in its favor.

I don't dispute any of your points points. It just seemed like poor planning to create the problem in the first place - though obviously there are other constraints and calendar events about which we know nothing at this time.

It could very well be that there is something else planned with which this cannot overlap - although why this couldn't be a 14-day event requiring 9-tokens or or a 10-day event requiring 7 tokens that started later, who can say.

Yes, they should assume everyone needs to travel far, and that NO ONE on there days off will have time to log into a game...oh, wait...

Again, IT'SA GAME. It's not the end of the world if you happen to not complete a given event (in 3 weeks). But to somehow say: "They shouldn't do long term events of Holidays and giving the flak for such is just ridiculous.

wideningxgyre · November 2018

crypticarmsman wrote: »

wideningxgyre wrote: »

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

The 3 week event by design provides 7 days of wiggle room. With 5 full days of travel that still provides a buffer of 2 for those who have major thanksgiving plans (which doesn't include all of the US, only those with major thanksgiving plans. Not everyone travels and not everyone travels for that long over the holiday.) It's close but it's still totally doable. The only folks missing out are those who take extended personal vacations over the holiday. In which case, ask for another buy in like the last Breach event. If it's not being implemented this time, special circumstances of the holiday could tip the argument back in its favor.

I don't dispute any of your points points. It just seemed like poor planning to create the problem in the first place - though obviously there are other constraints and calendar events about which we know nothing at this time.

It could very well be that there is something else planned with which this cannot overlap - although why this couldn't be a 14-day event requiring 9-tokens or or a 10-day event requiring 7 tokens that started later, who can say.

Yes, they should assume everyone needs to travel far, and that NO ONE on there days off will have time to log into a game...oh, wait...

Again, IT'SA GAME. It's not the end of the world if you happen to not complete a given event (in 3 weeks). But to somehow say: "They shouldn't do long term events of Holidays and giving the flak for such is just ridiculous.

Not even remotely what I've said in any of my posts, nor reflective of the acknowledgement I've made of very valid points made by others in this thread, let alone reflecting a misreading of my key points (though I obviously need to take some responsibility for not articulating them in a manner that conveys clarity).

dracounguis · November 2018

Can't wait to get my

(Every time I see 'beacon', I read 'bacon'.)

mneme0 · November 2018

wideningxgyre wrote: »

There is a bundle with 10 for 800 zen. Includes an ultimate upgrade.

Currently broken for at least some people. https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1245236/unable-to-buy-binary-stars-tfo-bundle

rattler2 · November 2018

dracounguis wrote: »

Can't wait to get my

(Every time I see 'beacon', I read 'bacon'.)

bahahahahaaa__rainbow_dash_laugh_by_misteralex-d515muw.gif

That... is... awesome.

postagepaid · November 2018

I realise that some US citizens love their excesses but three weeks for thanksgiving seems a tad much.

rattler2 · November 2018

I think they're just complaining that Thanksgiving is in the middle of the event, therefore "poor planning!"

After hearing that Binary Stars was going to be a 3 week event... I knew it would have to be REAL SOON, because guess what's around the corner? Winter Event.

We've never had a 3 week event run at the same time as a Seasonal.
So logically... if it hadn't stared last week... it would HAVE to start this week in order to not conflict with the Winter Event.

From the patch note: Battle at the Binaries - a 14-day event with a major US holiday in the middle

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