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Enough already with the time travel!

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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 4,109 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Open workd pvp? No frakking thanks. I won't play any such game. If I pvp at all its because I choose to, I won't put myself in a position not to have that choice.

    Me either. I highly dislike PvP in any form. Open world/forced? Not a chance.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,192 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Open workd pvp? No frakking thanks. I won't play any such game. If I pvp at all its because I choose to, I won't put myself in a position not to have that choice.

    To be fair, what he was referring to was a separate instance or even a separate server which you could easily opt out of. That's why they are separate in other games after all. People such as yourself who are uninterested in open PVP would obviously quit if they weren't separate.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,616 Arc User
    PVP I enjoy, Halo, Gears, C&C, games where no matter what happens in pvp your single player experience at most gets cosmetic unlocks (gold weapon skins, character skins, that kind of thing) & where I will never be shot at a bank terminal, travelling through an area to get to a mission, or anything else like that. A seperate pvp instance would be something else entirely, but I have a feeling it would be almost as expensive as building a whole other game.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 13,065 Arc User
    pulldownyourpantsandslideontheice-001.jpg~original
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    nixboox wrote: »
    I don't hate it, I just find it to be an excuse for lazy writing and bad design. We've had more time travel in STO than we've had in all the series combined.
    There are 56 episodes/movies of Star Trek with time travel in them, in STO, there are like 26-27 missions that actually involve time travel.

    So no, STO has about half as much time travel as all the shows.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 4,109 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    echatty wrote: »
    Yes, there have been threads on this subject in the past. This isn't the first "I hate time travel!" thread.

    I don't hate it, I just find it to be an excuse for lazy writing and bad design. We've had more time travel in STO than we've had in all the series combined.

    This still isn't the first thread on the topic of time travel. There have been many of them.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • kaggert27kaggert27 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited October 2018
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    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,229 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Open workd pvp? No frakking thanks. I won't play any such game. If I pvp at all its because I choose to, I won't put myself in a position not to have that choice.

    To be fair, what he was referring to was a separate instance or even a separate server which you could easily opt out of. That's why they are separate in other games after all. People such as yourself who are uninterested in open PVP would obviously quit if they weren't separate.

    I doubt this game has enough subscribers to warrant the cost of maintaining such a split; plus they want to continue the "content EVERYONE can play" update paradigm.

    They've even stated they considered breaking "Agents of Yesterday" into it's own separate TOS based version of the game; but in the end decided against that and made it the Expansion we got.

    Again, for them to do something it has to both:

    - Be technically possible
    - Ensure a good RoI/Profit
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    > @azrael605 said:
    > PVP I enjoy, Halo, Gears, C&C, games where no matter what happens in pvp your single player experience at most gets cosmetic unlocks (gold weapon skins, character skins, that kind of thing) & where I will never be shot at a bank terminal, travelling through an area to get to a mission, or anything else like that. A seperate pvp instance would be something else entirely, but I have a feeling it would be almost as expensive as building a whole other game.

    This and how many people would even play in the PvP instance? I would guess not that many. It wouldn’t be worth the effort at all.
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  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    > @azrael605 said:
    > PVP I enjoy, Halo, Gears, C&C, games where no matter what happens in pvp your single player experience at most gets cosmetic unlocks (gold weapon skins, character skins, that kind of thing) & where I will never be shot at a bank terminal, travelling through an area to get to a mission, or anything else like that. A seperate pvp instance would be something else entirely, but I have a feeling it would be almost as expensive as building a whole other game.

    This and how many people would even play in the PvP instance? I would guess not that many. It wouldn’t be worth the effort at all.

    Before Legacy of Romulus the Starship PvP queues filled pretty fast, though the FvK queues were a bit slower for randoms. The creation of Aceton Assimilators insured that the FvK queues died, but still there was a vibrant PvP community centered around Fed PvP, while the Klinks were relegated to old houses and friends in premade teams.

    But since the learning curve was already huge at that point making new entry into PvP difficult, and the introduction of Reputation traits and powers made 'time in grade' more important than any single other factor, attracting new members to PvP was difficult.

    Ground PvP persisted much longer, but suffered many of the same power creep issues. A captain who has maxxed out all his reps is virtually untouchable by a new level 60 captain, so until you have maxxed out, even trying is pointless. After you have maxxed out there is still a massive learning curve to overcome, so again, it's difficult to cultivate new players.

    So PvP died in STO, and there were developers who openly said that was their goal. So be it, it's the past.

    PvPers were never a majority of STO players because PvP was a complex art even back when. But I believe the developers overlooked a very important fact as they power-creeped PvP into obscurity: PvP players bought all the gear. They may have been an insignificant part of the market base, but they were invested in the game to a degree the Space Barbies never were.

    An that's the angle that could get PvP some attention. PvPers want all the cool stuff, want to tweak their builds constantly in an ever-evolving meta. PvPers spend money! Growing a community that spends money on the game is a worthy goal, even if it's a very small community at first.

    I have outlined a plan which would enable players to get into PvP early, and it would also encourage the purchase of those low-tier C-store ship which have been out there a long time. It wouldn't be an open season on everyone type of PvP, but a Wagames type scenario where captains who want to play can, and those who don't won't even have to see them doing it. Bet of all, it would require very little developer attention beyond the upgrade of the Level Matching system which is already in the game, but which has not been updated since release.

    A renaissance of the PvP queues would become a cash cow. Perhaps not much at first, but if the PvP community can be grown, it will create a hard core customer base who will support the further growth of the game. Those who don't PvP will still benefit, and never have to see a guy shoot another guy to do so. How can this be a bad thing?
  • terranempire#7881 terranempire Member Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    [quote=kaggert27;c-13436646]I personally just want Daniels to stop Temporally Date **** my characters. I mean the last one woke up basically drugged on the floor of his Paradox Observational Lounge Playtime Dungeon that you know he hits a button it locks that door and blocks all transporter action right when you beam or walk in[/quote]


    😅🤣😂 When I saw Daniels again on my Disco captain I thought exactly the same thing.

    Stop Daniels from kidnapping people! And ban time travel and temporal accord nonsense.... Say No to Daniel!

    ​​
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    "Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer"
    "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
    #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 388 Arc User
    well, if we are batting around ideas for story arcs, one that would be ambitious as **** would be mysterious attacks on federation planets, engineered to llok like KDF, and 3-4 fed only episodes, hopefully, a couple of helping out attacked systems, alternating with KDF episodes where the Klingons defend themselves against Federation retaliaton, and lastly, a couple episodes for Roms and Dominion to try to figure out who is behind it finally an all factions episode or two or three to wrap it up.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,457 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    nixboox wrote: »
    echatty wrote: »
    Yes, there have been threads on this subject in the past. This isn't the first "I hate time travel!" thread.

    I don't hate it, I just find it to be an excuse for lazy writing and bad design. We've had more time travel in STO than we've had in all the series combined.

    This still isn't the first thread on the topic of time travel. There have been many of them.
    Actually, there's just the one. It's caught in a temporal loop.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,457 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    well, if we are batting around ideas for story arcs, one that would be ambitious as **** would be mysterious attacks on federation planets, engineered to llok like KDF, and 3-4 fed only episodes, hopefully, a couple of helping out attacked systems, alternating with KDF episodes where the Klingons defend themselves against Federation retaliaton, and lastly, a couple episodes for Roms and Dominion to try to figure out who is behind it finally an all factions episode or two or three to wrap it up.

    I thought they dealt with this in the series before? Romulans were destroying outposts in TOS and the Borg in TNG.
    And of course there are the Iconian attacks on Undine space, meant to look like Allied fleets with their reproductions of BQ ships. Not an attack on Fed planets, to be sure, but the same concept.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 13,065 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    echatty wrote: »
    nixboox wrote: »
    echatty wrote: »
    Yes, there have been threads on this subject in the past. This isn't the first "I hate time travel!" thread.

    I don't hate it, I just find it to be an excuse for lazy writing and bad design. We've had more time travel in STO than we've had in all the series combined.

    This still isn't the first thread on the topic of time travel. There have been many of them.
    Actually, there's just the one. It's caught in a temporal loop.

    Actually, there's just the one. It's caught in a temporal loop.
    pulldownyourpantsandslideontheice-001.jpg~original
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 2,669 Arc User
    The continual creation of I Hate Time Travel threads is it's own repeating Time Loop of destruction.



    We must Decompress Main Shuttle Bay to break the cycle.

    the thing i hated most about that episode was the utter disregard for thier guest start's acting ability. they seriously wasted Kelsey Grammar on they episode. Imagine if he had been the captain of the Phoenix in DS9 or the admiral in the Dominion war...
    2dm9h86.jpg

  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 2,669 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @starswordc said:
    > And oh by the way, why is it always Hitler? Why do we never think the kid down there is going to grow up to be the next Gandhi or Martin Luther King?

    Stalin was worse than Hitler anyway, mathematically anyway.

    and so was Pol Pot. but wars were not fought to get rid of Stalin or Pot. Hell most on here are googling just who the hell Pol Pot WAS.
    2dm9h86.jpg

  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 2,669 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    > @nixboox said:
    > salazarraze wrote: »
    >
    > Personally, I dislike time travel in story telling. It's a tired overused gimmick. It's also too easily exploited to paper over the cracks of weak writing. That said, Cryptic wants to appeal to as many Star Trek fans as possible to maximize profit so sadly time travel is a necessary evil in running this game.
    >
    > In a perfect world (no pun intended) we'd have different servers for different star trek periods but this game just isn't big enough to support something like that.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Yes! Exactly! That was my thought too. We can have TOS servers and TNG servers... They're all just instances anyway, there's no reason we should be able to ostracize certain ones to a different point of time. Even easier, really, since the TOS people couldn't go to certain sectors. It would also be nice to caption the ships from TOS in a place where you find all the other TOS ships.
    >
    > I realize that Cryptic is just doing what they can with what they have...but I was here from the very pre-beginning and I know how much the game has changed - so I know what they CAN do and what they DO...and these two things are very different.

    I would love instances where we have the iconian war and certain planets are under attack and we can go defend them.

    Want PvP? Instance for UFP/KDF war that's open world. Have fun.

    But sadly never happen.

    that is the only way PVP shold be in an MMO on it's own instance. Log into WoW and it use to be that they had PVP only servers, and if someone did a raid, all you had to do is avoid attacking the other guy in the PVE servers. TOR has PVP instances if you want to go there. there is no reason STO cannot do it other than there would be 12 people in it
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,616 Arc User
    > @vetteguy904 said:
    > zedbrightlander1 wrote: »
    >
    > The continual creation of I Hate Time Travel threads is it's own repeating Time Loop of destruction.
    >
    >
    >
    > We must Decompress Main Shuttle Bay to break the cycle.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > the thing i hated most about that episode was the utter disregard for thier guest start's acting ability. they seriously wasted Kelsey Grammar on they episode. Imagine if he had been the captain of the Phoenix in DS9 or the admiral in the Dominion war...

    I think your mixing things up. The USS Phoenix commanded by Ben Maxwell appeared in TNG's The Wounded, not on DS9. The only other Phoenix was Chocrane's in First Contact.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,672 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @starswordc said:
    > And oh by the way, why is it always Hitler? Why do we never think the kid down there is going to grow up to be the next Gandhi or Martin Luther King?

    Stalin was worse than Hitler anyway, mathematically anyway.

    and so was Pol Pot. but wars were not fought to get rid of Stalin or Pot. Hell most on here are googling just who the hell Pol Pot WAS.

    That's kind of beside the point: I was posing a rhetorical question about why these Prime Directive hypotheticals always assume the worst-case scenario and never even think about the equally likely best-case scenario, or the far more likely scenario where "that kid down there" grows up to be the horrible, terrible, Joe the Plumber (someone completely unremarkable in other words). It's argumentum ad ignorantium in its purest form.
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,616 Arc User
    > @vetteguy904 said:
    > zedbrightlander1 wrote: »
    >
    > The continual creation of I Hate Time Travel threads is it's own repeating Time Loop of destruction.
    >
    >
    >
    > We must Decompress Main Shuttle Bay to break the cycle.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > the thing i hated most about that episode was the utter disregard for thier guest start's acting ability. they seriously wasted Kelsey Grammar on they episode. Imagine if he had been the captain of the Phoenix in DS9 or the admiral in the Dominion war...

    Oh by the way, all through the TNG & DS9 years Kelsey Grammer was portraying Frasier Crane and did not have time in his schedule for a recurring role so him playing Admiral Ross was never going to happen. Funny thing, I bet most here don't know that his fictional ex-wife Lillith from Cheers & Frasier was also in TNG, she was the nurse on the pre-warp planet that made Riker have sex with her in exchange for helping him escape the hospital.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,616 Arc User
    > @vetteguy904 said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > > @starswordc said:
    > > And oh by the way, why is it always Hitler? Why do we never think the kid down there is going to grow up to be the next Gandhi or Martin Luther King?
    >
    > Stalin was worse than Hitler anyway, mathematically anyway.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > and so was Pol Pot. but wars were not fought to get rid of Stalin or Pot. Hell most on here are googling just who the hell Pol Pot WAS.

    "Those who fail to learn history properly are doomed to repeat it, those who fail to learn history at all... well they are just doomed."
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,041 Arc User
    Captain Ben Maxwell

    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
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