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EXPERTISE: Train Bridge Crew varies wildly & Reputation XP negative?

strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 850 Bug Hunter
edited October 2018 in PC Gameplay Bug Reports
It seems to indicate my KDF (Klingon) has over 5.7m+ XP (Expertise) for the Reputations or to donate to Fleet...

Cause when donating 2,000 to Lukari it says Expertise at Bottom of 5,731,825 at bottom, when donating 2,000 to Temporal it now says 5,729,825 Expertise at Bottom, etc... etc...

Yet I know I never SPEND the vast amount EXPERTISE I had, most of my character's should easily have 2-4 million Expertise unspent, so I was completely stunned when K'redek just trying to train 4 bridge office in 1 specialization each was out? I thought I used to always see millions upon millions of available XP on each and every one of my characters.

Expertise Earned: 366,000
Earn Next Grade: n/a
Expertise Earned: 5,727,833
Expertise Spend: 5,730,890 There's NO WAY he spent even 50% this much! - unless it ate 1-2m a lot faster than it should
Expertise Available: -3,057

I honestly thought most of my character's had at least 2-4 million in unspent XP (Expertise), yet the first character I tried training yesterday ran out some how, prior to this MOD I always thought my character's had several Million's of unspent XP.

Yet now I see two reported XP (Expertise) Earned listings completely different, and see some wildly exaggerated Experience Spent that even allows it to go negative without stopping you. I remember F'ea my newest Feresen a year ago sometimes ran into that problem when she tried training some bridge she needed more XP but couldn't go negative. Now REPS are even allowing you to go negative! Also K'redek should have had millions of XP available to him and running 2 days of REPs & training 3-4 bridge officers in 1-2 specializations should not have eaten it all!

Feresen reports Space training takes only:
  • 1,250 for Ensign or Equivalent
  • 2,850 for LT
  • 3,050 for LT COM
  • 2,650 for COMMANDER?

Klingon reports Space training takes only:
  • 2,420 for Ensign or Equivalent
  • 7,420 for LT
  • 9,000 for LT COM
  • 4,020 for COMMANDER?

Klingon reports Ground training takes only:
  • 1,050 for Ensign or Equivalent
  • 7,420 for LT
  • 10,350 for LT COM
  • 6,900 for COMMANDER?

My goodness even a REPUTATION daily only cost 2000 XP.

es39BdQ.png
  • I barely or very rarely donate XP to Fleet cause those are often filled, so where has all my XP gone?
  • And now Reputations allow you to spent more than you even have?
  • My goodness I should have millions UNSPENT XP on some characters...

52TsASH.png

FlK2PvL.png

Now it started only claiming I had only 943 XP just by training 3-4 bridge crew in 1-2 specializations they had previously unlocked. My main had most his bridge crew almost all fully trained in almost every specialization and still previously had millions of available XP.

Even though the values consumed are wildly inconsistent right now, I should have millions of XP unspent still on K'redek. :'(

This is a Clear BUG that needs to be fixed.

@ambassadorkael#6946
Post edited by strathkin on
Strathkin.png

Comments

  • chrian#9670 chrian Member Posts: 233 Cryptic Developer
    Hello @strathkin , Can you post an imgur picture of your status saying what expertise you have in your stats, and how much expertise you have in the other menus?
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 850 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2018
    @chrian#9670

    I mailed you and tried to post - but I also want to tell Quinn to please be quiet! ;)

    He keeps spamming me with missions I don't want, even though I SKIP all TFO (Task Force Operations) missions but he keeps coming back 3, 4, out to 7 or more times every 5s after telling him to GO AWAY! Sorry just frustrating when you trying to take screenshots or check other character's, the Chancelor or D'Tan / Romulan Admiral do this too...

    I also checked my other character's to see what they had identified as UNSPENT: :'( :'(

    MAIN FED ENG:
    Experience Earned: 366,000 what is this above?
    earn for n.grade: n/a
    Experience Earned: 12.63m
    Spent: 6.9m
    Available 5.6m

    NOTE: When filling REP projects on my main it lists 12.63m not 5.6m available?

    MAIN FED SCI:
    Experience Earned: 366,000 what is this above?
    earn for n.grade: n/a
    Experience Earned: 9.4m
    Experience Spent: 6m
    Experience Available: 3.4m

    So it seems my others at least on first glance look mostly OK, but I don't know how K'redek seems to have lost at least 1-2m of his former available XP? He's an older toon or the first Delta recruit and should have had 1.5-2m XP available to him...

    Surely training 3-4 Bridge officer's in all Ensign, LT, LT.COM, COM skills from the Bridge Officer trainer is not what ATE them all up? So I was completely stunned to discover he ran out just doing that yesterday. I mean he only spent about 750k of EC just buying the cheaper manuals from the Bridge Officer trainer as I thought it would be a good time to improve several of his Bridge Crew so they'd be more versatile while perhaps getting a few new ships to fly.

    Now he's -negative and I sure don't know how why?

    The BUG seems most in the wild variations in the XP cost for training bridge officers depending if Space &/or Ground, and they all vary wildly if you Klingon, Feresen, or Human let alone all the countless other races there are. For example as shown above:

    Feresen SCI reports XP REQ for her Bridge crew for Space training - didn't denote Bridge crew race-eng/sci/tac:
    1,250 XP for Ensign or Equivalent
    2,850 XP for LT
    3,050 XP for LT Commander
    2,650 XP for Commander?

    Klingon ENG reports XP REQ for his Bridge crew for Space training - didn't denote Bridge crew race-eng/sci/tac:
    2,420 XP for Ensign or Equivalent
    7,420 XP for LT
    9,000 XP for LT Commander
    4,020 XP for Commander?

    Klingon ENG reports XP REQ for his Bridge crew for Ground training - didn't denote Bridge crew race-eng/sci/tac:
    1,050 XP for Ensign or Equivalent
    7,420 XP for LT
    10,350 XP for LT Commander
    6,900 XP for Commander?

    The above only shows a Klingon Male show Space & Ground, with only the Space Skills showing for a Feresen Female.

    Though it seems not the character's race but RACE of Bridge crew that creates wild discrepancies. Still surely even this isn't justified. I mean I could understand slight variations from ENG, SCI or TAC based on how many given skills they have in a particular area, but considering with specializations they all have so vastly many to learn, this should likely remain consistent like it use to be DENOTED (at the bottom) BELOW.

    +Human ENG reports XP REQ for his Bridge crew for Elisa Flores (Human) TAC Space training:
    1,380 XP for Ensign or Equivalent
    7,420 XP for LT
    13,680 for LT Commander
    5,250 for Commander?

    +Human ENG reports XP REQ for his Bridge crew for Elisa Flores (Human) TAC Ground training:
    920 XP for Ensign or Equivalent
    3,220 for LT
    9,000 for LT Commander
    13,900 for Commander

    +Human ENG reports XP REQ for his Bridge crew for Jesren (Trill) ENG Space training:
    1,580 XP for Ensign or Equivalent
    7,450 XP for LT
    13,680 for LT Commander
    5,250 for Commander

    +Human ENG reports XP REQ for his Bridge crew for T'Vrel (Vulcan) SCI Space training:
    2,420 for Ensign or Equivalent
    7,420 for LT
    13,680 for LT Commander
    13,900 for Commander

    +Human ENG reports XP REQ for his Bridge crew for T'Vrel (Vulcan) SCI Ground training:
    1,050 for Ensign or Equivalent
    4,880 for LT
    13,680 for LT Commander
    18,350 for Commander

    NOTE: Note some of those are differences of more than 14,000+ XP for training bridge crew in a single ability!

    I thought previously it was always the same for Ensign, LT, LT.Com, Commander it just increased slightly for each Grade and didn't matter if it was a space or ground skill. I'm going from memory but I thought it was something like this:
    • 250 XP for Ensign or Equivalent regardless if Ground or Space
    • 1000 XP for LT regardless if Ground or Space.
    • 2500 XP for LT COM regardless if Ground or Space
    • 5000 XP for COMMANDER? regardless if Ground or Space

    Perhaps they may have planned to increase some values, but so really seem stark differences. None of this was even hinted at in the release notes so I got to believe this is a PURE BUG! Though I think the problem is every bridge crew varies wildly in what they cost, and sometimes it's the lower ranking skills far more than higher ranked ones!

    I haven't compared Human's, Vulan's, Romulan's, Caitain's, Orion's or several other variations but I suspect it effects everybody. I mean BUGS happen cause CODE often has several dependencies, so I just wish you the BEST of luck fixing or resolving this soon!

    Thank You for your Message. I leave you to do your work now...

    @ambassadorkael#6946
    Post edited by strathkin on
    Strathkin.png
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 850 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2018
    OK I just completed some Admiralty on K'redek hoping my XP (Expertise) would be out of the Negative... but sadly that's specialization XP not general XP as I quickly realized... So if you have a lot of XP eaten you'll need to get back to regularly running DOFF missions or otherwise finishing any uncompleted missions to boost your XP.

    So everybody be CAREFUL when training your Bridge Officer's in new skills!
    Post edited by strathkin on
    Strathkin.png
  • kaggert27kaggert27 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    So nice I posted about this on the 22nd.... and see it got buried by all the other DSC stuff https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1243728/expertise-available-gui-error-glitch
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 850 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2018
    Oh so it then did start likely before the recent MOD then...

    I've noticed several different things noted above. Not only how it reports or how it removes the XP either with Reputations, Training Bridge Officers, but in several other area's there are anomalies...

    Hopefully this isn't caused by Temporal Investigations? ;)

    Clearly not good! Hope they FIX it soon...
    Strathkin.png
  • exdarthstormexdarthstorm Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I am also experiencing this issue. I can't train any of my boffs in any new skills because I apparently have negative Expertise, but yet, it shows I have over 11.4mil Expertise when donating to fleet projects. This is really weird.

    SS Posted. Also noticed that under my progress numbers, it shows that I've "spent" more expertise than I've earned. This is some serious twilight zone stuff.

    I asked about this in gen-chat (i know, probably shouldn't have but meh...) a few people pm'd me and said that they've had the bug and a respec of their character fixed the issue. I figured I'd give it a try. No go, just added extra work to get my specs back up and running (as well as all my traits cause, well STO is awesome and erases those when you respec as well).

    Need some help here devs! Let's get this very annoying and simple issue fixed!
    imgur link, just cause: https://imgur.com/a/z76OChE

    Thanks,
    -Tolk
  • kaggert27kaggert27 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    Patch notes mention something about some sort of fix to this:

    "Removed obsolete Expertise Spent category from status UI. "

    Does this fix the thing that people now say they have negative Expertise?
    Patch notes say nothing about anything beyond what is stated.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 850 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2018
    Yea I think because XP confused by Training Bridge officer's varies so WILDLY you're likely to eat thru at least 2-5x more XP that you should likely had otherwise be able to do.

    One needs to be EXTREMELY careful when training any bridge officers, cause some even at LT will want over 10k XP to train a single skill, and my goodness there is easily a lot of skills at that or LT COM levels.

    Those used to only cost maybe 1000 XP previously and some bridge officers still can be only 1250-2500 XP for LT skills, but yet others you may spend 10K or more and this is a WILD variation that doesn't really seem justified. I mean if they were different QUALITY of bridge officer's you might expect perhaps follow a MATRIX like:

    Common: **
    Ensign is 250 per skill
    LT is 1000 per skill
    LTC is 2500 per skill
    COM is 5000 per skill

    NOTE: Similar to what all bridge officers used to be from what I recall.

    UNCOMMON:
    Ensign is 500 per skill
    LT is 1250 per skill
    LTC is 3000 per skill
    COM is 5500 per skill

    RARE:
    Ensign is 700 per skill
    LT is 1500 per skill
    LTC is 3500 per skill
    COM is 5900 per skill

    VRARE
    Ensign is 900 per skill
    LT is 2000 per skill
    LTC is 4200 per skill
    COM is 7500 per skill

    But surely some MATRIX based on QUALITY of BRIDGE OFFICERS makes a lot more sense that the complete randomness we see currently.

    Hopefully maybe @chrian#9670 aside from it seems doing a GREAT job to quickly resolve the correction between having a duplicate Experience Earned tab, the 2nd thing is likely to ensure every experience listed has a clear purpose, 3rd would be to introduce a more standardized MATRIX so players have an expectation around XP being spent, 4th perhaps FIX the REPS so they aren't allowing you to go wildly NEGATIVE.

    But each of those may take a little more time, so we can only be HOPEFUL he is aware, and will do his best to TRY to fix this. We've seen him make some progress already so that's certainly encouraging news... So for that at least we should say:

    Thank You! <3
    Strathkin.png
  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    I had negative expertise with two of my characters until the 18 Oct patch, at which time all my characters gained a lot of expertise they had been presumably missing, including those two. I got all my BOFF training done except on one character, which now shows about 2.5M expertise, but her remaining BOFF's promote button is greyed out and claims she needs 700k more expertise to promote. Training seems to be okay, but this last BOFF cannot get promoted.
  • exdarthstormexdarthstorm Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I can confirm that my issue was fixed in the last patch, I was able to train my BOFFs in needed skills, and my expertise reflected the correct amount I currently have. Though I haven't tried to promote a BOFF as of yet (as I haven't had the need) but I'll report back if that becomes an issue.

    So, hopefully not a jinx, but thanks to the Dev's for catching this and fixing it so quickly.

    -Tolk
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 850 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2018
    I think they may have even given back slightly more experience. I will check my Klingon previously identifed about 5.7 total but about 2m or so available. At least until I had done the strange Bridge Training on 3-4 Bridge Crew. Since all of them wildly vary so drastically from Ensign to Commander as identified above.

    I mean I think they OVERCORRECTED the XP but I won't complain. But I think the bigger issue is training bridge officers varies so wildly for each and every one there no consistency unless that's some new undocumented feature cause some take far more to train than others?

    Yea my Klingon now showing now he showing 5.7m available, where before he began his training of 3-4 Bridge Crew it was 2m (max) or so. But what stunned me was just how vastly quickly it disapeared training all but a few bridge officers in 1-2 specializations each. It used to offer standardized XP for Ensign, LT, LTC, and Commander abilities regardless of Space or Ground and wouldn't vary wildly depending on the bridge officer. But perhaps they intended each one to be different cause it will potentially SINK XP a lot faster than it did before. :o

    @chrian#9670
    Strathkin.png
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