Well I have been surprised how many folks have contacted me today and have asked to keep posting. So I will.
I can imagine and really hope that you didn’t mean what you said earlier about not posting here anymore.
I for my part enjoy your videos a great deal and would love to see more of them in the future. Seeing you having a good time in game reminds me of me and having the same with my friends in OCD fleets or in the DPS league. In short I can appreciate it as I got privileged enough to experience it myself.
There will always be those who try to take that fun away from you; as metal DPSer I had to experience that often enough. Don’t let that get to you, don’t let that stop you. Don’t give up on having fun in game and trying to carry this fun in here. For every grain of pearl barley in STO forums there are players like @seaofsorrows@echatty and many others making up for them and who should make logging in here and sharing your stuff worthwhile. For as long as we are having fun in game we have won, we only loose when we let it slip away.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
When you bill your video as "this is what 2 million DPS looks like*," and then in your original post mention that Exotic is overpowered, the natural inference is that your build did 2 million DPS. Any sensible definition of the term DPS doesn't refer to spikes; we use the term "spike" for those. DPS is average damage over time, after all.
Not trying to pile on here, man; if you're having fun taking videos with exotic hijinks, more power to you. It's just not a particularly well labeled video.
(* - Worth noting, too, that you don't even mention the lower, "sustained" number on the youtube page for your video.)
The video states "this is what >2 million DPS looks like", nowhere does it state that "this is what >2 million DPS looks like from a single player". Don't criticise a statement based on your incorrect assessment of the statement.
The video also shows the build for the Annorax which lists a spike damage of >1 million DPS spike and >200K DPS sustained, if it's not on the YouTube description then that was just missed off, it's on the web site, it's in the video, if that's not enough for you then you clearly haven't watched it either, jeez!
The definition of DPS is damage per second, there is no precise or arbitrary designation for the start and end point of that measurement. Therefore a spike can be anything from a fraction of a second to many seconds, the very term "spike" is self-explanatory in that it is NOT a sustained damage readout but a short and instantaneous SPIKE of damage. The damage of the spike is measure in DPS, regardles of the duration of S. It is also known as an alpha strike and is measure in the exact same way.
The Spike damage of this team is greater than 2 million DPS and the sustained is greater than 300K which is exactly what the title states, just because your own personal interpretation of the title is different to the facts does not make it right.
You know, I really regret posting this video, in the future I will abstain from commenting or posting on this forum, the negativity from the population here is most depressing, it is full of critics, trolls, naysayers and doom mongers. Contributing to this forum should carry a health warning. This is my last post to the STO forums other than the recruiting thread we run, I really don't have the energy to argue with idiots any longer.
C'mon, this is sophistry. Sure, you can take your damage over, say, 2 seconds or 5 seconds or 10 seconds, and that's a valid way to measure spikes, but when people refer to DPS, they're talking about sustained damage. This shouldn't be controversial.
It's not a big deal. You're just misusing the term. At first I thought you were genuinely confused about it, but now it seems clear that your video's title is misleading clickbait. And you know it, which is why you're so defensive.
Oh, and your team did not do 2 million DPS. They may have spiked that high, but the parse in your video shows 310k + 285k + 93k + 79k + 48k = 815k team DPS. That's certainly a nice number, but it's a far cry from your initial claim - and it comes from a map that no one's ever heard of. I'm sure this all sounds like malicious nitpicking, but the point here really isn't to criticize you, Matt. The point is simply to clarify, for people who may not know any better.
There's a reason that we use a handful of Cryptic-made queues to measure DPS; those maps provide us with a (more or less) consistent basis to compare builds. When random people see you make claims like the ones in the video, they can get misled about what a given build is capable of. There are only a couple of players in the entire game who are capable of consistently putting out 200+k DPS in an Exotic boat on a non-CCA map, and those performances require the support of extremely high-end teams. And when I say "extremely high-end teams," I'm talking teams comprised of top-20 or so players.
Meanwhile, cannon builds doing 200+k DPS are still very rare, of course, but not nearly as rare, and in any case, I can do 200+k DPS consistently in PUGs; the score isn't team-dependent.
All of this is to say simply that Exotic builds aren't overpowered, or at least not overpowered relative to the competition at the moment. To the extent I care at all about this topic, that's where I care. Your foundry video's nice; if you had fun doing it, then more power to you - but it doesn't say anything about the relative strength of EPG builds generally.
There are multiple kinds of DPS actually. It popped up long ago, in MMOs older than this one, such as WoW, LOTRO or Warhammer Online, City of Heroes/City of Villains...etc etc., even going all the way back to the first Everquest. You had sustained damage, and you had burst(or spike). You also had AoE, versus single target. For WoW, up until a certain point in The Burning Crusade, a super easy way to see something like this, were from 2 classes mainly: The Warrior, and the Shaman.
Sustained DPS came from something like a dual-wielding warrior or shaman, giving consistent damage over time, not huge on the spikes. Lots of little attacks. DoTs, bleeds, things like that. As opposed to the 2hand warrior and 2hand Windfury shaman. Not needling on the hits, not exactly a lot of attacks, but when you hit something, the burst showed(with Windfury and sword specialization, it was really swingy, but when it came up, you'd devastate something). The enemy felt it all at once, and that was the greatest generation of hate, barring a taunt move.
Regarding the video, I don't have any reason to throw shade on it. Sometimes I enjoy watching old beavis 1228 or Maydie PvP videos from WoW(but that was because at heart, I am a PvPer, and did that sort of thing.) All I can say is do what you want, what you enjoy. Accept that not everyone appreciates the same brand of art, and if people put criticism out there, try not to lash out or get demoralized. As them to elaborate their stance, or ask them why they feel a certain way. Sometimes they may have a perspective with insight that you missed. Such as @where2r1's asking questions because she doesn't know how to do what you did. Dismissal is a double-edged sword.
Ok a few clarifications here. First off, I wasn't referring to you as the idiot, and in any case I shouldn't have used those words, I was not having a good day for RL reasons.
No worries, man. I probably took too much offense. We all have bad days. I'm not gonna get into a point-by-point response to your arguments here because I'm done with the topic, but I'm not new to the game. I'm a Reddit guy, and the reason it says I have no posts here is that all of my posts came before the forum moved to this new site, however many years ago - and before that there was a migration to PWE that changed my forum name from my account name, etc, etc.
On that note, I mentioned to peter earlier that there are clearly some deep resentments swirling around the various camps in this forum. As I don't really understand those conflicts, I probably should not have waded in.
ISA is a joke for good players in good builds. It's not a bad benchmark though, these days, in my opinion, certainly not in the average PuG, which is how I use it. VIL increased the hitpoints on the map, so that it's no longer so easy to trivialize a run by adding second good DPSer (adding a third tends to skew things though). Some people insist that HSE is better, and there's something to be said for that - but it's also much more heavily team dependent queue, and if you just wanna benchmark a build, a full HSE-capable team is a big ask. Suffice to say that both have their pluses and minuses.
I think you raise a good point, actually, in that we could use another standard benchmark, whether that's a lesser played queue or maybe a Foundry map designed for that purpose (like DPSM for solo players, which never really caught on, or Spencer's HSE simulation, the name of which escapes me at the moment). I'm pretty confident you can't hit anywhere near the numbers you've discussed in either ISA or HSE, but again, maybe I'm too focused on those two maps.
I have lots of EPG builds, some Sci captains, some Tac. The Scis have actually impressed me a lot, to the point where my lesser-invested sci-captain build holds my current (exotic) high-score in HSE*, which is still considerably lower than my best cannon score. Frustratingly, another poorly equipped alt holds my record in CCA. Suffice to say I don't agree with you about EPG builds being overpowered, but it's not worth going to war over. I respect your opinion.
And I wish you well.
(* - BTW, worth noting that in HSE you basically need a sub-nuc toon, so I actually tend to think that my Tac EPG toons are a waste, as opposed to the Scis.)
I'm not the one who quit the forum in a snit a few posts ago, claiming that the forum should come with a health warning. I'm also not the one who posted a video with highly inflated numbers and then argued with a straight face that:
A.) the video proves that a certain type of build is overpowered, and
B.) anyone who criticizes your video must be jealous of your "success."
I've been pretty polite to you throughout this thread. Your only reply has been to insult and dismiss. "I'm quitting the forum, tired of arguing with idiots," and now it's the guy who self-admittedly posted a misleading video in part to brag about his DPS accusing me of taking the game too seriously. You don't have a response, so you resort to this.
We're not supposed to notice that you're incapable of producing those numbers on real maps, I suppose. Sorry for derailing the narrative.
What exactly are you criticizing?
The EPG builds are what they are. They wold be just like that in rill time conditions. Scientific-tactical boats with all extras and support would be stronger than any just cannon builds.
And what now, they need to make EPG like support platforms?
It's just that (most of the time) I try to live by the "If you can't say something good, keep your mouth shut."
I disagree with this point. Critical thinking requires criticism. If you haven't got anything negative to say, you didn't put any thought into saying it, so what you said means nothing. Therefore, what was the point of saying it? Because you love the sound of your own voice?
You certainly have the right forum name.
No worries there. It is possible to criticize without being disrespectful or saying bad things. It's called constructive criticism. You won't find me on here calling people names or being disrespectful, and if someone perceives disrespect, then there is immediate apology.
As for ruinthefun, we've had a few run-ins in the past, so I generally don't engage him, for the sake of my blood pressure.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Oh, and that last vid was definitely fun to watch. I generally do those solitary, on normal. I tried Japori on both Advanced and Elite and while I managed to stay in one piece for Elite, I definitely wouldn't make a habit of it. lol.
But it's fun to watch people who know how to build for Elite and play it. You guys are really good.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Yes, EPG can be very strong, but to call it "massively OP" is yet another attack on science that's really not necessary, especially in a game environment where previously worthwhile gear are nerfed in the name of balance only to reintroduce a next wave of shinies in gamble boxes.
Science ships properly equipped do what they do because in comparison to other ship types they are sub-par for conventional damage, and unless calling for yet another round of DPS nerf across the board (which wouldn't be healthy for the game at this point), stop attacking science.
Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
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Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
I can imagine and really hope that you didn’t mean what you said earlier about not posting here anymore.
I for my part enjoy your videos a great deal and would love to see more of them in the future. Seeing you having a good time in game reminds me of me and having the same with my friends in OCD fleets or in the DPS league. In short I can appreciate it as I got privileged enough to experience it myself.
There will always be those who try to take that fun away from you; as metal DPSer I had to experience that often enough. Don’t let that get to you, don’t let that stop you. Don’t give up on having fun in game and trying to carry this fun in here. For every grain of pearl barley in STO forums there are players like @seaofsorrows @echatty and many others making up for them and who should make logging in here and sharing your stuff worthwhile. For as long as we are having fun in game we have won, we only loose when we let it slip away.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Awesome, thank you for sharing this. If I finally decide to make a Sci Build I know what to shoot for.
>--Drache-->
There are multiple kinds of DPS actually. It popped up long ago, in MMOs older than this one, such as WoW, LOTRO or Warhammer Online, City of Heroes/City of Villains...etc etc., even going all the way back to the first Everquest. You had sustained damage, and you had burst(or spike). You also had AoE, versus single target. For WoW, up until a certain point in The Burning Crusade, a super easy way to see something like this, were from 2 classes mainly: The Warrior, and the Shaman.
Sustained DPS came from something like a dual-wielding warrior or shaman, giving consistent damage over time, not huge on the spikes. Lots of little attacks. DoTs, bleeds, things like that. As opposed to the 2hand warrior and 2hand Windfury shaman. Not needling on the hits, not exactly a lot of attacks, but when you hit something, the burst showed(with Windfury and sword specialization, it was really swingy, but when it came up, you'd devastate something). The enemy felt it all at once, and that was the greatest generation of hate, barring a taunt move.
Regarding the video, I don't have any reason to throw shade on it. Sometimes I enjoy watching old beavis 1228 or Maydie PvP videos from WoW(but that was because at heart, I am a PvPer, and did that sort of thing.) All I can say is do what you want, what you enjoy. Accept that not everyone appreciates the same brand of art, and if people put criticism out there, try not to lash out or get demoralized. As them to elaborate their stance, or ask them why they feel a certain way. Sometimes they may have a perspective with insight that you missed. Such as @where2r1's asking questions because she doesn't know how to do what you did. Dismissal is a double-edged sword.
No worries, man. I probably took too much offense. We all have bad days. I'm not gonna get into a point-by-point response to your arguments here because I'm done with the topic, but I'm not new to the game. I'm a Reddit guy, and the reason it says I have no posts here is that all of my posts came before the forum moved to this new site, however many years ago - and before that there was a migration to PWE that changed my forum name from my account name, etc, etc.
On that note, I mentioned to peter earlier that there are clearly some deep resentments swirling around the various camps in this forum. As I don't really understand those conflicts, I probably should not have waded in.
ISA is a joke for good players in good builds. It's not a bad benchmark though, these days, in my opinion, certainly not in the average PuG, which is how I use it. VIL increased the hitpoints on the map, so that it's no longer so easy to trivialize a run by adding second good DPSer (adding a third tends to skew things though). Some people insist that HSE is better, and there's something to be said for that - but it's also much more heavily team dependent queue, and if you just wanna benchmark a build, a full HSE-capable team is a big ask. Suffice to say that both have their pluses and minuses.
I think you raise a good point, actually, in that we could use another standard benchmark, whether that's a lesser played queue or maybe a Foundry map designed for that purpose (like DPSM for solo players, which never really caught on, or Spencer's HSE simulation, the name of which escapes me at the moment). I'm pretty confident you can't hit anywhere near the numbers you've discussed in either ISA or HSE, but again, maybe I'm too focused on those two maps.
I have lots of EPG builds, some Sci captains, some Tac. The Scis have actually impressed me a lot, to the point where my lesser-invested sci-captain build holds my current (exotic) high-score in HSE*, which is still considerably lower than my best cannon score. Frustratingly, another poorly equipped alt holds my record in CCA. Suffice to say I don't agree with you about EPG builds being overpowered, but it's not worth going to war over. I respect your opinion.
And I wish you well.
(* - BTW, worth noting that in HSE you basically need a sub-nuc toon, so I actually tend to think that my Tac EPG toons are a waste, as opposed to the Scis.)
STO Builds Wiki
U.S.S. Pale Horse, a Jem'Hadar Warship build
Rough comparison of different damage types on high-end cannon builds
What exactly are you criticizing?
The EPG builds are what they are. They wold be just like that in rill time conditions. Scientific-tactical boats with all extras and support would be stronger than any just cannon builds.
And what now, they need to make EPG like support platforms?
No worries there. It is possible to criticize without being disrespectful or saying bad things. It's called constructive criticism. You won't find me on here calling people names or being disrespectful, and if someone perceives disrespect, then there is immediate apology.
As for ruinthefun, we've had a few run-ins in the past, so I generally don't engage him, for the sake of my blood pressure.
But it's fun to watch people who know how to build for Elite and play it. You guys are really good.
LOL, Benny Hill music works well with you signature video too.
Thanks for sharing.
And thanks for your effort.
PS: you know the saying "Haters are your biggest fans"
Yes, EPG can be very strong, but to call it "massively OP" is yet another attack on science that's really not necessary, especially in a game environment where previously worthwhile gear are nerfed in the name of balance only to reintroduce a next wave of shinies in gamble boxes.
Science ships properly equipped do what they do because in comparison to other ship types they are sub-par for conventional damage, and unless calling for yet another round of DPS nerf across the board (which wouldn't be healthy for the game at this point), stop attacking science.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'