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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    De facto they have combat trained armed soldiers and warships.

    Aside from security officers I don't think they have dedicated combat personnel, although everyone has at least basic training and should know how to behave in a combat scenario that's true - although the majority of the crews still consist of scientists and engineers. However, they only have one 'warship' which is the Defiant. The other ships are mostly Explorers used in combat due to their offensive and defensive capabilities, which they have because they usually, well, explore unknown space which is full of horrors that want to murder your face.
    Just because some characters in said source material doesn't like to be called military, and some rabid fans like you are in agreement and don't understand how words and meanings work, doesn't matter at all. And the distinction you're trying so hard to push really isn't stressed that much on-screen at all, all we see are occasionally some ppl saying "we are peaceful explorers, not a military" (which tends to be followed by an... armed conflict). US military went to Vietnam and said they were "advisors", while having napalm with them. Soviet troops came to Baltics as "liberators", apparently trying to liberate us from sovereignty. You can call something whatever the hell you want, it doesn't change the reality behind the word.

    With all due respect, you seem to be failing how "fiction" works. Characters that say things provide exposition for the viewer. In addition, "some people" are the captains of the most decorated and in one case flagship of the UFP, high ranking Admirals amongst Starfleet (maybe even the Commander Starfleet?) and close associates of those. They wouldn't be in such a position if they would somehow serve in a organization they don't agree with methinks. Your real-world examples fall short of one important thing - it's the real world. In Star Trek we (still) have a more optimistic outlook of the future and should at least in broad terms apply the fact that what we are told is supposed to be fact. I acknowledge that the Starfleet's Admiralty are regularly consisting of villains that try to push some shady agenda, but overall it's military function as a peacekeeping force that ends conflicts and establishes peace and security in a region can at this point not be taken as an euphemism for national interests (as the UFP itself is not a single state but a UN like union of many worlds) but at face value.
    Also, following your own logic, shouldn't we be all absolutely rooting for that Space Force? Doesn't matter what it *actually* is, Trump called it Space Force, therefore it will absolutely be one! (Notice how silly that is?)

    I wouldn't root for a "Space Force" because, as silly as it sounds, the term itself implies a militarization of space. If the US would now proclaim "we don't have a military any more, we're now botanists bringing plant life into barren regions of the world with seed-dispersing bullets" (which is a thing, kinda, they want to use degrading training rounds that free plant seeds on decomposition) then that is of course nonsense as we, in the real life, know that this is not why we have international military operations. Fictional Starfleet at this point has not been shown to annex other regions of space despite many conservative minded fans project some sort of fear over "cultural unification" onto it - which is only a fear as long as it is another culture of course pig-2.gif​​
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    I'd just like to note, in relation to those quotes, that when Kirk denied being in "the military", the entire crew was on a side trip on their way from Vulcan to Earth for their courts martial; they had, after all, committed offenses ranging from assaulting and threatening officers to jailbreak to kidnapping (since McCoy had apparently been found to be incompetent, he couldn't legally agree to go with them) to stealing the Enterprise (what would that be? Grand Theft Starship?) to the (possibly justifiable) killing of an entire crew of Klingons (who had boarded Enterprise when Kirk claimed to have surrendered, but had in fact activated the self-destruct). Their assumption at the time was that being drummed out of the service was the least they could expect.

    During the run of TOS, however, he referred to himself as a "soldier" more than once.

    The less said of Picard's idealistic delusions (bordering occasionally on hypocrisy) the better.

    But I tell you what, Starfleet sure as heck looked and acted like a military force during the Dominion War!
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    Um... While the Defiant was the first warship, she wasn't the only one. I believe Prometheus is also considered a warship.

    As for the "Space Force"... We don't have the resources for it. Maybe someday when we start pushing out into space with manned missions one will become necessary, just like how all Starfleet ships are armed, but right now it would probably be a treaty violation as the US signed a treaty prohibiting the militarization of Space.

    Although knowing the Tangerine and Chief, he'll pull out of it saying "Its a Bad Deal", then make crazy demands of making a Space Force base on the moon before NASA even has the tech to support a research outpost. Oh... and he'll probably want someone ELSE to pay for it, like he wants Mexico to pay for the Great Wall of Trump.

    Ok... sarcasm asside, I'm done on the political side of things. Its one topic I try to steer clear of as... there are three things you NEVER talk about: Politics, Religion... and Omi's Head.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    [Mod Hat] Discussion of real-world politics is not allowed on the forums, per Community Rules and Policies.
    Spamming
    • Posting of off-topic comments, including but not limited to comments or discussions of a religious, or political nature.

    Thread closed. [/Mod Hat]

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