test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

STO making my computer struggle

tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
I have to congratulate Cryptic... for making STO what seems to be a totally new step in computer benchmark. A new Crysis, if you will.

I recently got a new rig, which from the sound of it would seem like a total overkill for STO. i7-8086k, RX Vega 64, an m.2 SSD. And it does everything super well - Elite: Dangerous, crypto mining, CAD, you name it. But STO... oh no, from the lag I experienced in HSE this evening, it certainly feels like STO needs something even better. So I applaud you, folks at Cryptic, for taking up this daunting task and carefully trying to provide only the best experience, for only the true elite players.

Seriously though, with my old PC, I could somehow grudgingly agree that, alright, maybe I shouldn't expect the game to run smoothly with almost maxed out settings (even tho it was, also, meeting all the recommended specs). But this is outright silly - don't even try to tell me that my rig is not capable enough. Moreover, my friends who I ran those HSEs with also had the same annoying lag, and all 3 companies (Intel, AMD, Nvidia) were represented, so I'd rule out any possible manufacturer-game conflict. And no, I don't want to believe it's my ISP either, considering STO is the only place I've so far had problems.

Yay for optimization (or lack thereof)?


Vague/clickbait titles are not allowed per FCT. Edited. -- StarSword-C
Post edited by starswordc on
«13

Comments

  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 4,139 Arc User
    More ambiguous thread titles?

    @baddmoonrizin
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 6,795 Arc User
    I had no problems with my ancient i5-2500K and GTX 680 ti. I haven't noticed any problems after upgrading to a GTX 980ti a couple of years ago and to an i7-8700 last year.

    Lag does not mean GPU load, it's more likely some stall between your PC and Cryptic's servers.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 4,139 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    echatty wrote: »
    More ambiguous thread titles?

    Hypocrite much?

    No, just that ambiguous thread titles are a no-no here.

    I've never started a thread with any incomplete or ambiguous title anyway, so no, not a hypocrite.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,478 Arc User
    Game performance can be iffy all over the place, doesn't need to be in the places the "true elite" play (whatever that means).

    But i strongly suspect that the biggest culprit is that even in a 5-man queue like HSE there is simply so much going on that lag in inevitable. There's a bazillion UI effects, weapons and special effects, visual spam up the wazoo, trait/passives/buffs/debuffs all stacking up and being tracked constantly....and that is before you even count the dammed NPC's! It's no wonder the game is struggling sometimes.
    Honestly i think perhaps what is in STO's best interest is to try and streamline the behind the scenes mechanics a bit better, there seems to be way to much, not sure of the wording, but i'd say "bloat" going on where every instance is filled to the roof with flashing effects and constant trains of buffs/debuffs and stats to be checked continually.

    Shoddy ISP server stateside are probably a cause too, together with higher demand than usual with the summer event.

    I honestly doubt any thing related to a player's PC system would be causing too many issues these days unless you are running an absolute potato and trying it on max settings.

    SulMatuul.png
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,422 Arc User
    for making STO what seems to be a totally new step in computer benchmark. A new Crysis, if you will.

    I recently got a new rig, which from the sound of it would seem like a total overkill for STO. i7-8086k, RX Vega 64, an m.2 SSD. And it does everything super well - Elite: Dangerous, crypto mining, CAD, you name it. But STO... oh no, from the lag I experienced in HSE this evening, it certainly feels like STO needs something even better. So I applaud you, folks at Cryptic, for taking up this daunting task and carefully trying to provide only the best experience, for only the true elite players.


    I recently got an Aorus GTX 1080 Ti. It cuts thru DS9 graphics et al. (all at highest settings) like butter. :)

    And lag in a mission? I think only on real low cards is that the cause sometimes. My money (apart from being on a new video card *g*) is on hamster-lag: the server just can't calculate all weapon effects, interactions quickly enough. (Which is why they nerfed several torpedo abilities, etc, so as to only have a small AoE range)
    2u4ikno.jpg
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    I had no problems with my ancient i5-2500K and GTX 680 ti. I haven't noticed any problems after upgrading to a GTX 980ti a couple of years ago and to an i7-8700 last year.

    Lag does not mean GPU load, it's more likely some stall between your PC and Cryptic's servers.

    How often are you playing 5-man queues with teammates who are heavily buffed, and tons of NPCs on your screen? I don't notice a blip in majority of content, however when i get into places where tons of enemies are present, it gets annoying. I presume every activity that's done in an instance puts slight toll on servers, and as I mostly play with ppl who buff themselves heavily, it gets for us to a point where something breaks. On my old PC (haven't played STO enough with new one yet), I did notice premades being usually worse than pugs.

    I'm not sure what it is, and it might very well be something network related, but my point is that it's not on my end. Furthermore, a friend of mine (who was in those HSEs) is from Florida, and he had the same problem, so it's not like it's only problem on Eastern coast of Atlantic, where I am.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,478 Arc User
    Run a Tracert to the Cryptic game servers, it would show any potential bottlenecks in the network chain that are clogging things up.
    SulMatuul.png
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 2,909 Arc User
    if your experiencing lag... most likely it is an isp issue or an issue between you and the servers at cryptic.

    oh dont forget... we no longer have net neutrality... maybe cryptic needs to pay for prioritized bandwidth.
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    But i strongly suspect that the biggest culprit is that even in a 5-man queue like HSE there is simply so much going on that lag in inevitable. There's a bazillion UI effects, weapons and special effects, visual spam up the wazoo, trait/passives/buffs/debuffs all stacking up and being tracked constantly....and that is before you even count the dammed NPC's! It's no wonder the game is struggling sometimes.
    Honestly i think perhaps what is in STO's best interest is to try and streamline the behind the scenes mechanics a bit better, there seems to be way to much, not sure of the wording, but i'd say "bloat" going on where every instance is filled to the roof with flashing effects and constant trains of buffs/debuffs and stats to be checked continually.

    Shoddy ISP server stateside are probably a cause too, together with higher demand than usual with the summer event.

    I honestly doubt any thing related to a player's PC system would be causing too many issues these days unless you are running an absolute potato and trying it on max settings.
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    My money (apart from being on a new video card *g*) is on hamster-lag: the server just can't calculate all weapon effects, interactions quickly enough. (Which is why they nerfed several torpedo abilities, etc, so as to only have a small AoE range)

    Exactly my points. It just displays them as an extremely unprofessional company when no matter how good your computer is, you will experience a loss in performance if you play certain content in a certain way. It's not like we were doing something illegal to specifically strain the server performance.
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Run a Tracert to the Cryptic game servers, it would show any potential bottlenecks in the network chain that are clogging things up.

    Nope, nothing out of extraordinary - if you and anyone else are interested...
    Tracing route to patchserver.crypticstudios.com [208.95.184.200]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:

    1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
    2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 212.7.29.253
    3 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms s14-v100.infonet.ee [212.7.29.45]
    4 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms s25.v1061.infonet.ee [212.7.29.166]
    5 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms te0-0-2-0.rcr11.tll01.atlas.cogentco.com [149.6.188.13]
    6 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms be2655.ccr21.sto03.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.49.173]
    7 28 ms 28 ms 28 ms be2281.ccr41.ham01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.63.1]
    8 33 ms 33 ms 33 ms be2815.ccr41.ams03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.38.205]
    9 41 ms 41 ms 41 ms be12194.ccr41.lon13.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.56.93]
    10 106 ms 106 ms 106 ms be2982.ccr31.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.1.117]
    11 103 ms 103 ms 103 ms te0-3-1-0.rcr51.b002133-1.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.46.134]
    12 106 ms 106 ms 107 ms 38.111.40.114
    13 103 ms 119 ms 103 ms 198.49.243.253
    14 126 ms 115 ms 106 ms 208.95.184.200
    However mind you that this is their patch server, and I'm not sure if the game server is the same.

    tigeraries wrote: »
    we no longer have net neutrality... maybe cryptic needs to pay for prioritized bandwidth.
    Hahahahaha, thanks for a good laugh. This sort of ridiculousness is exactly what I needed :D
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,422 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    But i strongly suspect that the biggest culprit is that even in a 5-man queue like HSE there is simply so much going on that lag in inevitable. There's a bazillion UI effects, weapons and special effects, visual spam up the wazoo, trait/passives/buffs/debuffs all stacking up and being tracked constantly....and that is before you even count the dammed NPC's! It's no wonder the game is struggling sometimes.
    Honestly i think perhaps what is in STO's best interest is to try and streamline the behind the scenes mechanics a bit better, there seems to be way to much, not sure of the wording, but i'd say "bloat" going on where every instance is filled to the roof with flashing effects and constant trains of buffs/debuffs and stats to be checked continually.

    Shoddy ISP server stateside are probably a cause too, together with higher demand than usual with the summer event.

    I honestly doubt any thing related to a player's PC system would be causing too many issues these days unless you are running an absolute potato and trying it on max settings.
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    My money (apart from being on a new video card *g*) is on hamster-lag: the server just can't calculate all weapon effects, interactions quickly enough. (Which is why they nerfed several torpedo abilities, etc, so as to only have a small AoE range)

    Exactly my points. It just displays them as an extremely unprofessional company when no matter how good your computer is, you will experience a loss in performance if you play certain content in a certain way. It's not like we were doing something illegal to specifically strain the server performance.


    ^^ On that I have to agree with you. Torp Spread, Kemo, etc., these shouldn't be nerfed because the server can't handle it; that's silly. I'd rather, in cases like this, they hire 1 less voice-actress, and add 1 more CPU. :) Or just program the lot better (no, I don't know how; but then again, I'm not the one getting paid to do so).

    I don't run these highly (activation-)time-critical Elite queues, like you, but I often used to experience this huge server lag in, say, the old, 20-player, Federation Fleet queue.
    2u4ikno.jpg
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,097 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I bet 600 quatloos it is the overuse of VFX. Back in the day in CoX there used to be quite a lot of VFX clutter. In one update, options were added to either tone them down or turn them off completely. Not for nothing, but this did make a difference.

    P.S. OP I really would change the thread title to something more specific.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 3,152 Arc User
    I had no problems with my ancient i5-2500K and GTX 680 ti. I haven't noticed any problems after upgrading to a GTX 980ti a couple of years ago and to an i7-8700 last year.

    Lag does not mean GPU load, it's more likely some stall between your PC and Cryptic's servers.

    How often are you playing 5-man queues with teammates who are heavily buffed, and tons of NPCs on your screen? I don't notice a blip in majority of content, however when i get into places where tons of enemies are present, it gets annoying. I presume every activity that's done in an instance puts slight toll on servers, and as I mostly play with ppl who buff themselves heavily, it gets for us to a point where something breaks. On my old PC (haven't played STO enough with new one yet), I did notice premades being usually worse than pugs.

    I'm not sure what it is, and it might very well be something network related, but my point is that it's not on my end. Furthermore, a friend of mine (who was in those HSEs) is from Florida, and he had the same problem, so it's not like it's only problem on Eastern coast of Atlantic, where I am.

    It's not lag on the servers at all. That's a myth. Some people just don't understand what is causing lag, and what type of lag is happening. The most common comment that it's Cryptic Servers is a false assumption. Seeing that I'm in the UK, not using an proxy and rarely ever get server lag, I would get it far worse than what some Americans claim! The most common cause of 'rubber-banding' is usually an IP conflict on the user's own network or an ISP issue! Often I hear 'I've got GB's of bandwith so should get no lag, so it's the servers', but I could tell that user with-in a minute, what their actual issue is.

    It is the antiquated STO engine that's not optimised. I have noticed more graphical lag in the past month or so. But bear in mind the massive amount of possible hardware configurations. It's just not possible for Cryptic to optimise for so many systems, especially as they want it playing on as many systems as possible. My 8 year old laptop with only 2GB RAM can still play this, but my current laptop runs for the most part fine. If they made a new engine only optimised for systems less than 5 years old and was truly 64bit (STO is still on a 32Bit program) then there wouldn't be as many issues, but it could cut off many folk who have old systems, that can't afford to upgrade.

    The only thing we as users can do is upgrade our drivers and tweak our settings, then a full restart of your machine. It must also be said that the best way to let your system do it's best is to disable and shutdown programs you are not running. Whilst modern day systems are great at multi-tasking, that's only for simple programs. STO is not a simple program, but one that is intensive on resources, so things like switching and running multiple intensive tasks will affect the game and will usually be the primary culprit of crashes.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,422 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    It's not lag on the servers at all. That's a myth.

    [Citation required]

    I've seen a video (at Cryptic Studios) where Bort literally showed the bogging-down effects of certain torp abilities. So, there's that.
    Some people just don't understand what is causing lag, and what type of lag is happening.

    That person clearly being YOU. :p
    The most common comment that it's Cryptic Servers is a false assumption. Seeing that I'm in the UK, not using an proxy and rarely ever get server lag, I would get it far worse than what some Americans claim!

    Yeah, no, that's not what lag is; you're talking about latency issues -- something entirely different.
    2u4ikno.jpg
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Often I hear 'I've got GB's of bandwith so should get no lag, so it's the servers', but I could tell that user with-in a minute, what their actual issue is.

    So, tell me, why is STO the only thing that's having problems for me?
    leemwatson wrote: »
    It must also be said that the best way to let your system do it's best is to disable and shutdown programs you are not running. Whilst modern day systems are great at multi-tasking, that's only for simple programs. STO is not a simple program, but one that is intensive on resources, so things like switching and running multiple intensive tasks will affect the game and will usually be the primary culprit of crashes.

    Fyi, I had only STO, foobar, Discord and standard Windows background services+AV open. Also, my PC is capable of having Youtube, a crypto miner and Paladins (not very demanding shooter game) open simultaneously without any noticeable stuttering. Saying that STO is more demanding than those 3 combined is... far-fetched, to say the least.
    valoreah wrote: »

    P.S. OP I really would change the thread title to something more specific.
    I'm afraid of the edit monster.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Yeah, no, that's not what lag is; you're talking about latency issues -- something entirely different.
    Actually, in networking jargon, lag is short term for latency. The term has broadened since then in the hands/mouths of gamers to account for any sort of FPS drop/jittering/delay, but the original meaning remains.
    However, yes, I fully agree with [Citation required]. And remember a livestream where Kael had similar troubles to what I'm describing.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,422 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    I bet 600 quatloos it is the overuse of VFX. Back in the day in CoX there used to be quite a lot of VFX clutter. In one update, options were added to either tone them down or turn them off completely. Not for nothing, but this did make a difference.

    P.S. OP I really would change the thread title to something more specific.


    And I bet 600 quatloos the Title will, indeed, get changed. :p But the OP, as a true Elite player -- demanding the highest responsiveness of the server for success -- is not wrong to point out a performance pass (no, not a lazy nerf, to mask the issues) is perhaps highly overdue.
    2u4ikno.jpg
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,422 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    I bet 600 quatloos it is the overuse of VFX. Back in the day in CoX there used to be quite a lot of VFX clutter. In one update, options were added to either tone them down or turn them off completely. Not for nothing, but this did make a difference.

    P.S. OP I really would change the thread title to something more specific.


    And I bet 600 quatloos the Title will, indeed, get changed. :p But the OP, as a true Elite player -- demanding the highest responsiveness of the server for success -- is not wrong to point out a performance pass (no, not a lazy nerf, to mask the issues) is perhaps highly overdue.


    P.S. So as not to impute the OP is literally 'demanding' anything (I know how these forums work), perhaps it's better to say his Elite content demands it of him. Me? I can afford to have activation skip an occasional beat, as I just do Advanced queues; but for Elite queues, where the NPC's are pushing you to the limit, I can see how a better server responsiveness is desirable.
    2u4ikno.jpg
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,919 Arc User
    And I thought this was gonna be a nice thread. LOL!

    What is up with this Forum lately....
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    I bet 600 quatloos it is the overuse of VFX. Back in the day in CoX there used to be quite a lot of VFX clutter. In one update, options were added to either tone them down or turn them off completely. Not for nothing, but this did make a difference.

    P.S. OP I really would change the thread title to something more specific.


    And I bet 600 quatloos the Title will, indeed, get changed. :p But the OP, as a true Elite player -- demanding the highest responsiveness of the server for success -- is not wrong to point out a performance pass (no, not a lazy nerf, to mask the issues) is perhaps highly overdue.


    P.S. So as not to impute the OP is literally 'demanding' anything (I know how these forums work), perhaps it's better to say his Elite content demands it of him. Me? I can afford to have activation skip an occasional beat, as I just do Advanced queues; but for Elite queues, where the NPC's are pushing you to the limit, I can see how a better server responsiveness is desirable.

    Nah, that's fine - you can impute that. :D I was reminded of an extremely fitting video here now, but I don't think any subtitles are available and I'm possibly the only person in these forums who speaks estonian.

    ... heck, maybe I should just spend my free time on writing english subtitles on interesting things in Youtube, instead of playing STO. Then again, thought of actually getting rid of that pesky tunebreaker guy who constantly wants the game to improve is probably a positive one to some in Cryptic.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,673 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    echatty wrote: »
    More ambiguous thread titles?

    @baddmoonrizin

    [Mod Hat] Fixed. [/Mod Hat]
    "Two ways to view the world, so similar at times / Two ways to rule the world, to justify their crimes / By Kings and Queens young men are sent to die in war / Their propaganda speaks those words been heard before"
    — Sabaton, "A Lifetime of War"
    VZ9ASdg.png
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 3,152 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    It's not lag on the servers at all. That's a myth.

    [Citation required]

    I've seen a video (at Cryptic Studios) where Bort literally showed the bogging-down effects of certain torp abilities. So, there's that.
    Some people just don't understand what is causing lag, and what type of lag is happening.

    That person clearly being YOU. :p
    The most common comment that it's Cryptic Servers is a false assumption. Seeing that I'm in the UK, not using an proxy and rarely ever get server lag, I would get it far worse than what some Americans claim!

    Yeah, no, that's not what lag is; you're talking about latency issues -- something entirely different.

    Citation NOT required! Just putting that in your post does not invalidate what I said, nor my experience. I've been using computers since the 70's. I used to work for an EPoS system company that installed systems and have known about DSL installations and troubleshooting since the 90's, which also included building PC's. I also set-up Modems and new systems for friends and family and I have a very good understanding of DSL (Broadband) line issues. Just a glance at a router diagnostics DSL line screen and I can tell if a line has an issue, and how good a quality that line is, amongst other things.

    You have a lack of understanding of what lag is. In very simple terms, and I repeat what I was talking about and the OP too, was Graphical (FPS) lag, which is the main issue in-game right now. People showing videos of them getting the game to crash due to Graphical lag has nothing, absolutely zero, to do with Server Lag. This is because the game engine (in alot of the cases also the machine) and 100% not the server, cannot cope with the vast plethora of visual effects that they were activating. You only need to go into Crystal Catastrophe to see this happening.

    If it was a server issue EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE would be getting rubber-banding, Server Not Responding, slow-loading, and/or power activation delays, which you would then see mountains of complaints on the forums. This is just not happening. As I said, most times it's an issue on the persons network or an ISP issue. The problem many have, is that they don't know or refuse to accept it's an issue on their side.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 4,139 Arc User
    I agree with leem, most issues of lag being reported is spotty at best. If everyone was experiencing it, then everyone would be flooding the forums with complaints.

    I experience spotty lag and rubberbanding during the day. SNR, getting kicked off and able to sign right back in. So I'm pretty sure all of that is on my end and not the game.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,422 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    It's not lag on the servers at all. That's a myth.

    [Citation required]

    I've seen a video (at Cryptic Studios) where Bort literally showed the bogging-down effects of certain torp abilities. So, there's that.
    Some people just don't understand what is causing lag, and what type of lag is happening.

    That person clearly being YOU. :p
    The most common comment that it's Cryptic Servers is a false assumption. Seeing that I'm in the UK, not using an proxy and rarely ever get server lag, I would get it far worse than what some Americans claim!

    Yeah, no, that's not what lag is; you're talking about latency issues -- something entirely different.

    Citation NOT required! Just putting that in your post does not invalidate what I said, nor my experience.

    What invalidates what you said, is not my request for citation, but Bort's video, showing, like I said, the bogging-down effects of certain torp abilities. So, unless you can think of another vid, or source, in which a Dev proves Bort wrong, I'm going with his word, and ignore your blustering.
    You have a lack of understanding of what lag is.

    No, YOU do. Blanketly calling everything 'lag' -- from server-side CPU issues, to network problems, to client-side matters even -- just means you don't really grasp the differences. You're like one of those lame movies, where they call everything 'downloading' (even when they clearly mean 'uploading').
    In very simple terms, and I repeat what I was talking about and the OP too, was Graphical (FPS) lag, which is the main issue in-game right now. People showing videos of them getting the game to crash due to Graphical lag has nothing, absolutely zero, to do with Server Lag. This is because the game engine (in alot of the cases also the machine) and 100% not the server, cannot cope with the vast plethora of visual effects that they were activating. You only need to go into Crystal Catastrophe to see this happening.

    And here you couldn't possibly, demonstrably, be more wrong. What you call Graphical Lag, is nothing more than you having a TRIBBLE video card. Mine (GTX 1080 Ti) experiences no such issues of any kind. I have a very smooth 'new DS9' experience, and run CCA on a daily basis (up to as much as 5x a day), everything maxed out.
    If it was a server issue EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE would be getting rubber-banding, Server Not Responding, slow-loading, and/or power activation delays, which you would then see mountains of complaints on the forums.

    See, this is why you need to stop calling everything 'lag.' Server Not Responding, slow-loading, and/or power activation delays are almost certainly always network issues (and rarely, if ever, caused by Cryptic).
    As I said, most times it's an issue on the persons network or an ISP issue.

    LOL. Zactly! So... not 'Graphical (FPS) lag' then, is it?!

    Tl;dr: your 'main issue in the game right now' does not even exist as a real issue. There are ppl like me, with decent machines, whose graphical experience is very smooth. And -- apart from this literally 1 time the game crashed, switching toons -- who don't experience these alleged FPS crashes at all (usually ppl with AMD cards anyway). The problem many have, is that they don't know or refuse to accept it's an issue on their side.
    2u4ikno.jpg
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,198 Arc User
    Keep in mind that sometimes, there's so much visual spam that the game itself cannot handle it.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,097 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Keep in mind that sometimes, there's so much visual spam that the game itself cannot handle it.

    ^ Yep. That's what I had said earlier. TBH I really believe the game needs a VFX overhaul. Certain queues - like Procyon 5 - you literally cannot see your own ship due to VFX spam, especially if you're piloting something like a Defiant, BoP or Pilot ships. IMO VFX are way, way, way overdone. I specifically remember the toning down/removal of VFX from CoX making a great improvement to game performance/responsiveness for many people.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,422 Arc User
    Keep in mind that sometimes, there's so much visual spam that the game itself cannot handle it.


    Definitely true. That could be part of the server-side issue the OP was talking about. Not a very elegant solution per se, but perhaps they could write an algorithm to 'scale down' certain visuals, when it's their own servers who get bogged down by it.

    Even the complex torp calculations Bort mentioned, in that vid, while primarily a server-side issue, could cause network issues too (locally) when too much info has to be transmitted to the client. Everything is related. :)
    2u4ikno.jpg
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,478 Arc User
    What the hell is wrong with the forum, these days, everyone seems so dammed aggressive against each other.... :(


    Anyhoo....

    Lag as a term used in his instance is correct as it's a blanket term for any game related delay in what the game does from your point of view.
    Lag, latency, rubber-banding; there all pretty much mean the same thing in this instance and it's no use arguing over terminology and who knows more about network technology etc.
    It's highly likely that the main issues at play are some form of delay someone down the pipe between the servers and the client side (your PC) and these can vary dramatically and come & go all over the place over a 24hr period. There's also the simple fact that perhaps the game engine itself simply cannot handle the sheer volume of data it needs to process every second whilst you run it.
    It basically gets overwhelmed once it's trying to display a 5 person queue with 20+ NPCs and every single entity in that instance having 30+ stats/buffs/debuff/traits needing to be tracked on top of 30+ different visual components, all of which needs to be recalculated every second or less.
    SulMatuul.png
  • kaggert27kaggert27 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    There probably needs to be options and settings put in for "VFX Spam" for overloaded visual overlay of player view so they can see their vessel, vs "VFX ability visual response" for abilities they cast or are affected by. If your GPU can handle such (for example I have a 1080, nothing really affects it). If the engine cannot handle such (due to communicating with server/client/others) then maybe some coding for offloading to the client side that would be able to handle their part could be improved, but I have a feeling that would require a complete revamp of such, to the point of too much work.

    Things I noticed struggled visually with STO:

    Back in the old days of the Klingon Scout Force PVE thing with the two Carriers at end of the PVE on 2 Crossfired AMD 5770s would have issues with the Particle "Fog" from the two cracked planet halves (also the found mission with the 10 computer core fragments you would get doing the defend freighter, satellite scan, and Defense Contract mission that gets you Deuterium Surplus consumable ship device. In which you find a True Way base using Fed/Klingon War ships that fell in combat would have this issue big time) , upgraded to a AMD 7970 GHz would ramp up big time fan wise there(but none of the slow down the 5770s) . When I built a new PC with the GTX 1080 Xtreme Edition Gigabyte(Aorus) I have not seen anything yet(or heard fans ramp up) for any visuals in game and since the Klingon Scout Force PVE and the Salvage Dispute mission are gone.

    What I have noticed though is it seems when the GUI/player window/fleet/map/Doff/Admiralty/etc and you have a few open is they use more memory and might tax the CPU more.

    I've also noticed the thing of game visuals sometimes not showing for some powers, when they should because there is not "much" happening on screen like some PVEs. Like the Engine does not quite take into account some stuff, or the transparency effect is broken or something somewhere for some powers (I seem to have issues with the Paradox Temporal Dreadnaught Console visuals have black squares instead of the swirly wigs. So either it is a Driver issue, or Engine thing.

    Connection Lag generally you get rubberbanding or suddenly you are at a different spot than you were, with either some damage, or defeated and waiting to respawn and no visual showing of the effects that got you killed. That can be your ISP vs Cryptic's . And since my ISP has had some issues past 2-1/2 months due to weather/bad dropline distance away, I tend to notice when happens other than the thing at top "Trying to connect to server/timeout something".



    Oh PS: Please do something about the normal Assualt Cruiser T5's in game, their secondary hulls seem to be missing a LOD at distance so you just see a white blob, only model I've seen with issue for like a year, and no amount of "Verify Content" has fixed it, So I'm going to say the file is just missing from patch source too.....
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    If it was a server issue EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE would be getting rubber-banding, Server Not Responding, slow-loading, and/or power activation delays, which you would then see mountains of complaints on the forums.
    Technically, you're not wrong. However, you are forgetting that STO makes heavy use of instances, and usually, what's happening in an instance should not travel outside of it. In my cases, everyone who were in those fights with me, all of them reported lag just like me. So, again, I remain convinced the problem is not on my end.
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Lag as a term used in his instance is correct as it's a blanket term for any game related delay in what the game does from your point of view.
    Lag, latency, rubber-banding; there all pretty much mean the same thing in this instance and it's no use arguing over terminology and who knows more about network technology etc.
    This is how I meant it, yes. I hoped everyone, fellow gamers as you are, understood what I meant and wouldn't start arguing stupid semantics that are only undestandable for ppl very experienced in networking field.
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    It's highly likely that the main issues at play are some form of delay someone down the pipe between the servers and the client side (your PC) and these can vary dramatically and come & go all over the place over a 24hr period. There's also the simple fact that perhaps the game engine itself simply cannot handle the sheer volume of data it needs to process every second whilst you run it.
    It basically gets overwhelmed once it's trying to display a 5 person queue with 20+ NPCs and every single entity in that instance having 30+ stats/buffs/debuff/traits needing to be tracked on top of 30+ different visual components, all of which needs to be recalculated every second or less.
    Yes, I believe that is the most plausible explanation.

    Anyhow, now I feel like I need to start carrying all the "unbelievers" in my HSEs. And if you still don't experience any troubles (while I do during the same match), ask how exactly you sacrificed your souls. :D
Sign In or Register to comment.