This is rather simple to figure out people. The 3/5 is new, yes. But, look at the
Ordinance...
set...
from...
Gamma...
Reputation...
and you then understand why it was made this way.
This was not hard to figure out. It came to my mind less than 1 minute after hearing it was 3/5 last night. This is a welcome change from the normal for ships. One that I'm going to enjoy seeing what I can do with. It's a definite break from the pewboats we have now.
Accept I already have the Ordinance set upgraded to Epic and it does not benefits from 3/5 so I do not understand why it has anything to do with this ship. The other problem mine layers tend to want to use the two key mine sets and with 5 mine launchers you cannot fit the 2 mine sets, 3 clusters and 5 launchers, its impossible.
With this 3/5 ship and 5 mine launchers fitted you going to be dropping less mines along with doing less damage per mine compared to decent mine layer ships which is why its a poor mine layer ship. The ship also has no access to the top mine bridge officer powers and the wrong specialization seating for mines.
As for the other people saying mines sucks and don’t work that’s not true. They won’t break any DPS records but a good mine build can do well over 100k DPS and play though advanced and Elite content without problems. I have a lot of fun in mine builds. Mines do not suck anymore. The devs have done a really good job fixing mines.
Sure just sticking 2 or 3 mine launchers in the rear sucks. But you wouldn’t stick a few cannons or beams on a ship without all the other sets, traits and combos and go that sucks. Once you spec and build into mines they work really well. Ok they fall down in the 300k+ DPS race.
This is rather simple to figure out people. The 3/5 is new, yes. But, look at the
Ordinance...
set...
from...
Gamma...
Reputation...
and you then understand why it was made this way.
This was not hard to figure out. It came to my mind less than 1 minute after hearing it was 3/5 last night. This is a welcome change from the normal for ships. One that I'm going to enjoy seeing what I can do with. It's a definite break from the pewboats we have now.
Accept I already have the Ordinance set upgraded to Epic and it does not benefits from 3/5 so I do not understand why it has anything to do with this ship. The other problem mine layers tend to want to use the two key mine sets and with 5 mine launchers you cannot fit the 2 mine sets, 3 clusters and 5 launchers, its impossible.
With this 3/5 ship and 5 mine launchers fitted you going to be dropping less mines along with doing less damage per mine compared to decent mine layer ships which is why its a poor mine layer ship. The ship also has no access to the top mine bridge officer powers and the wrong specialization seating for mines.
As for the other people saying mines sucks and don’t work that’s not true. They won’t break any DPS records but a good mine build can do well over 100k DPS and play though advanced and Elite content without problems. I have a lot of fun in mine builds. Mines do not suck anymore. The devs have done a really good job fixing mines.
Sure just sticking 2 or 3 mine launchers in the rear sucks. But you wouldn’t stick a few cannons or beams on a ship without all the other sets, traits and combos and go that sucks. Once you spec and build into mines they work really well. Ok they fall down in the 300k+ DPS race.
I'm not looking at doing a straight mine layer. The Ordiance set, will be a part of what I do. Then again, it may not be. Like I said, I've looked, got some ideas, not that I really want to repsec to get into them on my main. I'll be using this on other characters. Like my fresh romulan. Doesn't even have a full spec, yet, nor tons of gear. So I can play around here without worry. OR on other characters I don't use much. This, gives me idea on what I can do for them.
Because, for my alts, yeah, they need some love. I generally don't bother with them, because, meh, I only need 1 pewboat, which bores me enough. This, will be a welcome break from that boredom.
And I really don't care how it stacks up in the Derps Per Second race. I have never cared about that side of the game. I play for fun, not to be be bored out of my mind.
A lot of people seem to think that the only requirement for a mine-ship is that it has aft slots. That's so painfully incorrect I can't even laugh. A good mining ship needs to be faster and more nimble than the rest, while a Dreadnought Cruiser isn't. It needs to have plenty of tactical consoles and a strong tactical lean in terms of officers, which the Ytijara doesn't. Lastly, it needs to have at least 2 rear weapon slots, which the Ytijara does! In fact, the Vorgons got so excited when designing this super cool and unique feature, that they didn't realize that 5 slots rear is too much for ANY ship to have, doubly so for mines since 3 slots is generally the max you should use before running into cooldown conflicts.
The ship is NOT designed for mines. It's hardly capable of taking advantage of any build archetype aside from beam broadsiding, because the entire rest of the game is built around having either equal or forward facing weapon slots. There is no rear Tyken's Rift or rear Aceton Beam. There are no rear cannons or beam banks. Anything that can be used regardless of firing arc still strongly benefits from chaining with the long list of abilities that DO have a limited arc. By trying to be "unique" and "experimental", the ship has condemned itself to having only ONE choice of playstyle, which happens to be the most widespread and generic one there is.
I love new and different ideas. But they still need to have some kind of substance and reasoning behind them. This ship was different for the sake of being different, not because it could cater to a currently untapped style of playing. There was no effort to make it the new mine meta, or to even give it a spin on other ships we currently have. The ship is at best on par with all the other Dread-cruisers out there, minus any EFFECTIVE unique aspects others may have. At worst, this ship is 100% incompatible with the current standing of the game.
Using the Ytijara will be a hindrance. Let's hope the next ship does "unique" right.
I think this ship may actually surprise you and others. On one of my characters i am using the cardassian dreadnought with a tetryon/mine build and i actually had to throw in the agony torpedo in front because i had nothing with synergy to fill the spot in the front arc.
In the swarm this vogon ship will most likely be a beast.
For me, i do not see the synergy for the vogon ship with the gamma ordinance set. It may work out for some of the JH ships, but i do not think the gamma ordinance and the vogon dread are a match made in heaven.
The nukara and strategist sets however..
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
And I really don't care how it stacks up in the Derps Per Second race. I have never cared about that side of the game. I play for fun, not to be be bored out of my mind.
I also could care less about DPS. If it kills things and survives, that's good enough for me.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
And I really don't care how it stacks up in the Derps Per Second race. I have never cared about that side of the game. I play for fun, not to be be bored out of my mind.
I also could care less about DPS. If it kills things and survives, that's good enough for me.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
Same here, I don’t care about the DPS race past a certain point. Although I personally find 10k on the low side as its now where near enough for some content. I find themed fun builds more important than pure DPS. Saying that, there is fun to be had in pushing a ships efficiency as far as possible.
Talking about fun and different builds I am really struggling to find anything that runs different or better on this 3/5 layout. Everything I have seen so far would work just the same on 4/4 or 5/3. What new builds has 3/5 opened up?
Personally, I *do* care about DPS, but not in the absolute. More like finding optimum builds, and getting the most out of my gear (what upgrading is for too). To me, there's no point playing if you just slap on anything, without regard for trying to be efficient/have a good build. It's like a puzzle, that way: tinkering with loadouts until you get it right.
I *do* compromise on the DPS-race, though, when it suits me. Like to accommodate for my playstyle. For instance, I really like the Regroup Trait, so I can run EPtW/EPtS continually, with both on full uptime, sans having to need 3 purple doffs for it. For that, I need to continually run attack patterns (usually APO3/APD1), meaning I can't time the activation of those attack patterns according to 'established DPS rules;' but I don't care: these are my ships, and I fly them like I want.
(Flaming comments moderated out. By the way, the editing problem would be a Vanilla issue, not Cryptic. - BMR)
Personally, I *do* care about DPS, but not in the absolute. More like finding optimum builds, and getting the most out of my gear (what upgrading is for too). To me, there's no point playing if you just slap on anything, without regard for trying to be efficient/have a good build. It's like a puzzle, that way: tinkering with loadouts until you get it right.
I *do* compromise on the DPS-race, though, when it suits me. Like to accommodate for my playstyle. For instance, I really like the Regroup Trait, so I can run EPtW/EPtS continually, with both on full uptime, sans having to need 3 purple doffs for it. For that, I need to continually run attack patterns (usually APO3/APD1), meaning I can't time the activation of those attack patterns according to 'established DPS rules;' but I don't care: these are my ships, and I fly them like I want.
Well I do that. I get ideas for builds. I get the pieces, usually at VR Mk XII and test it first. Then I tweak it, then I test it, tweak it again, test it. Like my ground stealth build, that at VR Mk XII was able to crit for 3200+ damage. Which, I never actually use.
I don't compromise on the DPS front much. I'd say most of my builds don't even follow any of their rules other than, "Matching energy type and tac consoles." I don't use fleet gear. Just crafted, rep, and some lockbox consoles. I never bothered to buy the 5th trait slot or extra active duty doffs slots. I don't slot the "must have" doff's. I don't use RSO's. I've also never bought a ship from the C-Store. So I play the game as close to the core of it as possible. It add's a bit more challenge to making builds. But, that's fine, as long as I'm having fun.
Personally, I *do* care about DPS, but not in the absolute. More like finding optimum builds, and getting the most out of my gear (what upgrading is for too). To me, there's no point playing if you just slap on anything, without regard for trying to be efficient/have a good build. It's like a puzzle, that way: tinkering with loadouts until you get it right.
I *do* compromise on the DPS-race, though, when it suits me. Like to accommodate for my playstyle. For instance, I really like the Regroup Trait, so I can run EPtW/EPtS continually, with both on full uptime, sans having to need 3 purple doffs for it. For that, I need to continually run attack patterns (usually APO3/APD1), meaning I can't time the activation of those attack patterns according to 'established DPS rules;' but I don't care: these are my ships, and I fly them like I want.
(Flaming comments moderated out. By the way, the editing problem would be a Vanilla issue, not Cryptic. - BMR)
Well yes but I don’t live in the top end DPS ships. I admit I do get a lot of enjoyment pushing a ship to extreme efficiency levels but I don’t fly those ships day to day.
I fully agree anything past 100k+ is not needed. There is a lot of fun to be had in themed built ships or in scaling the DPS back to more reasonable levels and fitting more fun consoles and gear. My personal favourite ship at the moment is my mine layer even though it performs worse DPS wise then my torpedo boat. While I will push the mine layer DPS higher I won’t swap to other setups that break the theme just to boost DPS more. The way you worded it is much better. DPS matters but not in the absolute. Optimum builds that are fun are often better then pure DPS.
And I really don't care how it stacks up in the Derps Per Second race. I have never cared about that side of the game. I play for fun, not to be be bored out of my mind.
I also could care less about DPS. If it kills things and survives, that's good enough for me.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
Same here, I don’t care about the DPS race past a certain point. Although I personally find 10k on the low side as its now where near enough for some content. I find themed fun builds more important than pure DPS. Saying that, there is fun to be had in pushing a ships efficiency as far as possible.
Talking about fun and different builds I am really struggling to find anything that runs different or better on this 3/5 layout. Everything I have seen so far would work just the same on 4/4 or 5/3. What new builds has 3/5 opened up?
It gets me through any content I care to play. Do I get through it in a blaze? No, but I get through it in one piece. And as I said, that's enough for me.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
And I really don't care how it stacks up in the Derps Per Second race. I have never cared about that side of the game. I play for fun, not to be be bored out of my mind.
I also could care less about DPS. If it kills things and survives, that's good enough for me.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
Same here, I don’t care about the DPS race past a certain point. Although I personally find 10k on the low side as its now where near enough for some content. I find themed fun builds more important than pure DPS. Saying that, there is fun to be had in pushing a ships efficiency as far as possible.
Talking about fun and different builds I am really struggling to find anything that runs different or better on this 3/5 layout. Everything I have seen so far would work just the same on 4/4 or 5/3. What new builds has 3/5 opened up?
It gets me through any content I care to play. Do I get through it in a blaze? No, but I get through it in one piece. And as I said, that's enough for me.
That’s all good and I fully agree play with what you find fun. But that’s kind of unrelated to the discussion of what do we do with a 3/5 ship?
5/3 makes sense as it opens up lots of new build options and allows you to run builds you could not previously run.
3/5 on the other hand doesn’t appear to open up lots of new useful build options and doesn’t allow us to run lots of builds we could not previously run. While at the same time limits what you can do on the ship.
If you fit a single turret or Omni beam to a rear slot then the 3/5 doesn’t matter as you are running effectively identical to a 4/4 or 5/3 setup. What I am looking for is something new, useful and fun to do with 3/5 that I cannot do on 4/4 or 5/3.
EDIT: 5 Photon, Quantum, Plasma, Transphasic or bio mines have been ruled out due to global cooldown problems.The only thing I have come up with so far is possibly x2 quantum mines, Concentrated Tachyon, Nukara and Tractor Beam mines but I am not sure that's fun or useful.
EDIT2: I guess 3 or 4 mines and 1 or 2 clusters but again how useful will that be?
And I really don't care how it stacks up in the Derps Per Second race. I have never cared about that side of the game. I play for fun, not to be be bored out of my mind.
I also could care less about DPS. If it kills things and survives, that's good enough for me.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
Same here, I don’t care about the DPS race past a certain point. Although I personally find 10k on the low side as its now where near enough for some content. I find themed fun builds more important than pure DPS. Saying that, there is fun to be had in pushing a ships efficiency as far as possible.
Talking about fun and different builds I am really struggling to find anything that runs different or better on this 3/5 layout. Everything I have seen so far would work just the same on 4/4 or 5/3. What new builds has 3/5 opened up?
It gets me through any content I care to play. Do I get through it in a blaze? No, but I get through it in one piece. And as I said, that's enough for me.
That’s all good and I fully agree play with what you find fun. But that’s kind of unrelated to the discussion of what do we do with a 3/5 ship?
5/3 makes sense as it opens up lots of new build options and allows you to run builds you could not previously run.
3/5 on the other hand doesn’t appear to open up lots of new useful build options and doesn’t allow us to run lots of builds we could not previously run. While at the same time limits what you can do on the ship.
If you fit a single turret or Omni beam to a rear slot then the 3/5 doesn’t matter as you are running effectively identical to a 4/4 or 5/3 setup. What I am looking for is something new, useful and fun to do with 3/5 that I cannot do on 4/4 or 5/3.
EDIT: 5 Photon, Quantum, Plasma, Transphasic or bio mines have been ruled out due to global cooldown problems.The only thing I have come up with so far is possibly x2 quantum mines, Concentrated Tachyon, Nukara and Tractor Beam mines but I am not sure that's fun or useful.
EDIT2: I guess 3 or 4 mines and 1 or 2 clusters but again how useful will that be?
Good questions. And, indeed, how useful are mines? Playing Swarm Advanced, it's clear what they want us to do; and I studiously lay those tractor mines whenever I pass a popup for it. But, if the hur'q are going to explode on me anyway (mines or no), I'd rather blast them out of the sky myself, in my forward arc (whilst I back-peddle as fast as possible).
I mean, laying mines and all is cute, but I'd like to keep some straight fire-power too. R-TBR (with Graga) would probably do something, but does the new Vorgon ship support such a setup?
I think some people not understand greatly why those ships with more rear weapons slots than front are made for.
It's not like usual ships where you attack foreward, in that case yes there are no benefits to use this ship, even for a minelayer.
With this ship, you need to show your rear to enemis. if you can't put more than 3 mines at the rear, try to add something else on the 2 slots left.
For example for "The Devourer", I will put 2 plasma mine + 1 nukara mine, maybe the tractor mine if I can at the rear, I can add a plasma omega torpedo.
For the front I put omega cutting beam and a competiton 360 it can work well.
For Noemie, it would be less interesting I think, I will do a beam array build. Or I can do a torpedo/mine build at the rear, I will see what I can do.
About skill and set skill, I saw there are some interesting things who affect foe behind you. I assume those ships aren't weaponless, it would be just something different than usual.
And I really don't care how it stacks up in the Derps Per Second race. I have never cared about that side of the game. I play for fun, not to be be bored out of my mind.
I also could care less about DPS. If it kills things and survives, that's good enough for me.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
Same here, I don’t care about the DPS race past a certain point. Although I personally find 10k on the low side as its now where near enough for some content. I find themed fun builds more important than pure DPS. Saying that, there is fun to be had in pushing a ships efficiency as far as possible.
Talking about fun and different builds I am really struggling to find anything that runs different or better on this 3/5 layout. Everything I have seen so far would work just the same on 4/4 or 5/3. What new builds has 3/5 opened up?
It gets me through any content I care to play. Do I get through it in a blaze? No, but I get through it in one piece. And as I said, that's enough for me.
That’s all good and I fully agree play with what you find fun. But that’s kind of unrelated to the discussion of what do we do with a 3/5 ship?
5/3 makes sense as it opens up lots of new build options and allows you to run builds you could not previously run.
3/5 on the other hand doesn’t appear to open up lots of new useful build options and doesn’t allow us to run lots of builds we could not previously run. While at the same time limits what you can do on the ship.
If you fit a single turret or Omni beam to a rear slot then the 3/5 doesn’t matter as you are running effectively identical to a 4/4 or 5/3 setup. What I am looking for is something new, useful and fun to do with 3/5 that I cannot do on 4/4 or 5/3.
EDIT: 5 Photon, Quantum, Plasma, Transphasic or bio mines have been ruled out due to global cooldown problems.The only thing I have come up with so far is possibly x2 quantum mines, Concentrated Tachyon, Nukara and Tractor Beam mines but I am not sure that's fun or useful.
EDIT2: I guess 3 or 4 mines and 1 or 2 clusters but again how useful will that be?
Good questions. And, indeed, how useful are mines? Playing Swarm Advanced, it's clear what they want us to do; and I studiously lay those tractor mines whenever I pass a popup for it. But, if the hur'q are going to explode on me anyway (mines or no), I'd rather blast them out of the sky myself, in my forward arc (whilst I back-peddle as fast as possible).
I mean, laying mines and all is cute, but I'd like to keep some straight fire-power too. R-TBR (with Graga) would probably do something, but does the new Vorgon ship support such a setup?
Well I am bias but very useful if you support them with the right traits and combos. I just did a run where my average modulating mine without critical hits was 42,376 damage per mine.
Just ruled out Tricobalt mines those are still broken, no good on a 3/5 ship. Tested Transphasic but the same problem as Quantum, so back to the drawing board for me.
A lot of new people at 60+ with the expansion.
These people don't really know how to play, and are getting wrecked by the Hurq.
Voila! 3/5 ship! Put moar weapons in the back! Problem solved!
A free T6 ship, when there are people who dont know what theyre doing suddenly at end-game, when there's an enemy that mostly attacks your rear arc, with more aft than fore weapons. What a mystery.
Yeah but how many new players now how to make a ship with more aft weapons properly effective? I don't mean the best possible but just enough. Also there's new players but not all who rely on free T6 ships before they can get a C-Store or Exchange T6 ships so they might use this for non-Hurq related missions and/or queues.
A lot of new people at 60+ with the expansion.
These people don't really know how to play, and are getting wrecked by the Hurq.
Voila! 3/5 ship! Put moar weapons in the back! Problem solved!
A free T6 ship, when there are people who dont know what theyre doing suddenly at end-game, when there's an enemy that mostly attacks your rear arc, with more aft than fore weapons. What a mystery.
As has been explained numerous times, this ship brings nothing to help you fight the Hur'q.. nothing.
You're not going to run 5 aft mines, cooldown problems would make that useless. Not to mention, you're talking about a ship that doesn't have the bridge officer layout you would need for Mine Dispersal III, you can only go up to 2. This ship has nothing that makes it a better mine layer then a ship with 3 or 4 aft slots, if anything it's actually worse. It also has less then desirable maneuverability to help you place mines where you need them. The ship is a very sub par choice for mines.
Your best way to counter the layout is all beams or all turrets and again.. those work because they overcome the handicap of the weapon layout, they don't take advantage of it.
People who 'don't know how to play' are only going to get worse flying this ship. If you have some super secret build that maximizes the 5 aft layout, by all means.. do share. Experienced players are going to use this ship as exactly what it's best for.. an account wide admiralty card.
As has been explained numerous times, this ship brings nothing to help you fight the Hur'q.. nothing.
If you have no idea what you're doing, and are complaining about the Hurq, you'll probably put all of your beams in the back. Will it help? Slightly. Is it a great idea? Not really. It might keep you alive for an extra 10 seconds. It really only helps those that are desperate to stay alive, not actually do anything.
People who 'don't know how to play' are only going to get worse flying this ship. If you have some super secret build that maximizes the 5 aft layout, by all means.. do share. Experienced players are going to use this ship as exactly what it's best for.. an account wide admiralty card.
Everyone knows this. But if you have no idea what is going on, except for "these things always kill me from behind," then this is something you'll go after. There is no super secret build, just people claiming that there is some secret this ship was made for. There isn't. It's to attract people who just assume "extra aft weapons=good againt the Hurq." People who already know how to play know what to do.
Honestly, everything about it, to me, screams "hot garbage." It's a ship for the noobs, plain and simple. It may keep them alive for 10 extra seconds while theyre getting carried in a Swarm queue, so that means 10 extra seconds for someone to come bail them out, while they contribute very little to actually help complete the STF.
Instead of mines, perhaps it should be made into a reverse torpedo boat. 5 Torpedoes in the rear. Well maybe 4 and one set of mines for fun.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I'm not gonna participate for the ship. Vorgon stuff generally looks and feels underwhelming, not to mention it's not much when it comes to stats and stuff, compared to winter or C-store/lockbox content. I do advise new and free players to get the ship. Could be good.
I'm not gonna participate for the ship. Vorgon stuff generally looks and feels underwhelming, not to mention it's not much when it comes to stats and stuff, compared to winter or C-store/lockbox content. I do advise new and free players to get the ship. Could be good.
It's a free account wide admiralty card for pretty much no effort at all. Five minutes a day for 25 days.. no reason not to unlock it.
Plus, just because it sucks today doesn't mean that some new and powerful aft mountable weapon isn't on the horizon. No reason not to at least unlock it.. you lose nothing by getting it.
I'm not gonna participate for the ship. Vorgon stuff generally looks and feels underwhelming, not to mention it's not much when it comes to stats and stuff, compared to winter or C-store/lockbox content. I do advise new and free players to get the ship. Could be good.
It's a free account wide admiralty card for pretty much no effort at all. Five minutes a day for 25 days.. no reason not to unlock it.
Plus, just because it sucks today doesn't mean that some new and powerful aft mountable weapon isn't on the horizon. No reason not to at least unlock it.. you lose nothing by getting it.
That's a good point. One such example being if Tricobalt mines ever get fixed then without the bugs they would work on this ship with 5 rears.
Just ruled out Tricobalt mines those are still broken, no good on a 3/5 ship. Tested Transphasic but the same problem as Quantum, so back to the drawing board for me.
What is broken with Tricobalt mines?
Is there some low-cooldown mine you can use to trigger the mine cooldown reduction projectile DOffs to lower the cooldown on the Tricobalt mines?
I use missiles to trigger the torpedo cooldown reduction projectile DOffs for Tricobalt torpedoes. It's clunky, but it works. Maybe something similar can be done with mines?
I'm not gonna participate for the ship. Vorgon stuff generally looks and feels underwhelming, not to mention it's not much when it comes to stats and stuff, compared to winter or C-store/lockbox content. I do advise new and free players to get the ship. Could be good.
It's a free account wide admiralty card for pretty much no effort at all. Five minutes a day for 25 days.. no reason not to unlock it.
Plus, just because it sucks today doesn't mean that some new and powerful aft mountable weapon isn't on the horizon. No reason not to at least unlock it.. you lose nothing by getting it.
I could see an "eject warp plasma" weapon being moderately useful, except, obviously, that it already exists. I can't think of any other kind of powerful aft-mounted weapon, besides mines, that wouldn't just seem like an obvious gimmick to make aft-weapon slots effective. Every time it will be "why can't I just mount this on the front?" Ultimately, it only makes sense it it leaves something behind.
Just ruled out Tricobalt mines those are still broken, no good on a 3/5 ship. Tested Transphasic but the same problem as Quantum, so back to the drawing board for me.
What is broken with Tricobalt mines?
Is there some low-cooldown mine you can use to trigger the mine cooldown reduction projectile DOffs to lower the cooldown on the Tricobalt mines?
I use missiles to trigger the torpedo cooldown reduction projectile DOffs for Tricobalt torpedoes. It's clunky, but it works. Maybe something similar can be done with mines?
The mine reduction doffs used to be useless but perhaps with the recent changes they will now be ok to use. Still they wont work with Tricobalt's as the problem is global cooldown with those. As far as I am aware the torpedo doffs have the same problem they do not reduce the Tricobalt torpedoes down past 15seconds which makes them have terrible DPS output. A long time ago that global cooldown was removed but it slipped back in as a bug
A while back the Tricobalt cooldown got broken and now the mines send each other on a 15second cooldown so you can never use more than 2 mine launchers even after the recent patch and with the Ordnance console. Also the torpedoes and mines both send each other on the 15 second cooldown so no using torpedoes and mines together which kind of wastes your tactical slots if boosting Tricobalt
Both Tricobalt torpedo and mines have a nasty habit of hitting the enemy NPC going pop and doing zero damage. Not every time just once every so often.
The Tricobalt mines and only Tricobalt mines tend to blow up your own ship which combined with the above bug is rather frustrating to see a mine hit the enemy for zero damage and then do 30k+ to your hull blowing you up. I found with Tricobalt mines I was blowing up my ship more then the enemy.
Also while not a bug the Tricobalt mines have twice the delay before being armed.
Lastly on the rebalanced where the damage was cut in half now DPS is appalling with Tricobalts. My Quantum mine launcher is doing 11,219 damage with 4 mines so 44,876 per launcher volley every 16.7 seconds per launcher. My Tricobalt is doing 46,763 per volley with a 25 second cooldown. So less DPS per launcher and you can fit half as many launchers.
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With this 3/5 ship and 5 mine launchers fitted you going to be dropping less mines along with doing less damage per mine compared to decent mine layer ships which is why its a poor mine layer ship. The ship also has no access to the top mine bridge officer powers and the wrong specialization seating for mines.
As for the other people saying mines sucks and don’t work that’s not true. They won’t break any DPS records but a good mine build can do well over 100k DPS and play though advanced and Elite content without problems. I have a lot of fun in mine builds. Mines do not suck anymore. The devs have done a really good job fixing mines.
Sure just sticking 2 or 3 mine launchers in the rear sucks. But you wouldn’t stick a few cannons or beams on a ship without all the other sets, traits and combos and go that sucks. Once you spec and build into mines they work really well. Ok they fall down in the 300k+ DPS race.
I'm not looking at doing a straight mine layer. The Ordiance set, will be a part of what I do. Then again, it may not be. Like I said, I've looked, got some ideas, not that I really want to repsec to get into them on my main. I'll be using this on other characters. Like my fresh romulan. Doesn't even have a full spec, yet, nor tons of gear. So I can play around here without worry. OR on other characters I don't use much. This, gives me idea on what I can do for them.
Because, for my alts, yeah, they need some love. I generally don't bother with them, because, meh, I only need 1 pewboat, which bores me enough. This, will be a welcome break from that boredom.
And I really don't care how it stacks up in the Derps Per Second race. I have never cared about that side of the game. I play for fun, not to be be bored out of my mind.
I think this ship may actually surprise you and others. On one of my characters i am using the cardassian dreadnought with a tetryon/mine build and i actually had to throw in the agony torpedo in front because i had nothing with synergy to fill the spot in the front arc.
In the swarm this vogon ship will most likely be a beast.
For me, i do not see the synergy for the vogon ship with the gamma ordinance set. It may work out for some of the JH ships, but i do not think the gamma ordinance and the vogon dread are a match made in heaven.
The nukara and strategist sets however..
I also could care less about DPS. If it kills things and survives, that's good enough for me.
Personally, I see no reason to go into the hundreds of thousands in the DPS chase. That is simply way overkill when 10k gets the job done nicely.
Talking about fun and different builds I am really struggling to find anything that runs different or better on this 3/5 layout. Everything I have seen so far would work just the same on 4/4 or 5/3. What new builds has 3/5 opened up?
Aren't you a top DSP player?
Personally, I *do* care about DPS, but not in the absolute. More like finding optimum builds, and getting the most out of my gear (what upgrading is for too). To me, there's no point playing if you just slap on anything, without regard for trying to be efficient/have a good build. It's like a puzzle, that way: tinkering with loadouts until you get it right.
I *do* compromise on the DPS-race, though, when it suits me. Like to accommodate for my playstyle. For instance, I really like the Regroup Trait, so I can run EPtW/EPtS continually, with both on full uptime, sans having to need 3 purple doffs for it. For that, I need to continually run attack patterns (usually APO3/APD1), meaning I can't time the activation of those attack patterns according to 'established DPS rules;' but I don't care: these are my ships, and I fly them like I want.
(Flaming comments moderated out. By the way, the editing problem would be a Vanilla issue, not Cryptic. - BMR)
Well I do that. I get ideas for builds. I get the pieces, usually at VR Mk XII and test it first. Then I tweak it, then I test it, tweak it again, test it. Like my ground stealth build, that at VR Mk XII was able to crit for 3200+ damage. Which, I never actually use.
I don't compromise on the DPS front much. I'd say most of my builds don't even follow any of their rules other than, "Matching energy type and tac consoles." I don't use fleet gear. Just crafted, rep, and some lockbox consoles. I never bothered to buy the 5th trait slot or extra active duty doffs slots. I don't slot the "must have" doff's. I don't use RSO's. I've also never bought a ship from the C-Store. So I play the game as close to the core of it as possible. It add's a bit more challenge to making builds. But, that's fine, as long as I'm having fun.
I fully agree anything past 100k+ is not needed. There is a lot of fun to be had in themed built ships or in scaling the DPS back to more reasonable levels and fitting more fun consoles and gear. My personal favourite ship at the moment is my mine layer even though it performs worse DPS wise then my torpedo boat. While I will push the mine layer DPS higher I won’t swap to other setups that break the theme just to boost DPS more. The way you worded it is much better. DPS matters but not in the absolute. Optimum builds that are fun are often better then pure DPS.
It gets me through any content I care to play. Do I get through it in a blaze? No, but I get through it in one piece. And as I said, that's enough for me.
5/3 makes sense as it opens up lots of new build options and allows you to run builds you could not previously run.
3/5 on the other hand doesn’t appear to open up lots of new useful build options and doesn’t allow us to run lots of builds we could not previously run. While at the same time limits what you can do on the ship.
If you fit a single turret or Omni beam to a rear slot then the 3/5 doesn’t matter as you are running effectively identical to a 4/4 or 5/3 setup. What I am looking for is something new, useful and fun to do with 3/5 that I cannot do on 4/4 or 5/3.
EDIT: 5 Photon, Quantum, Plasma, Transphasic or bio mines have been ruled out due to global cooldown problems.The only thing I have come up with so far is possibly x2 quantum mines, Concentrated Tachyon, Nukara and Tractor Beam mines but I am not sure that's fun or useful.
EDIT2: I guess 3 or 4 mines and 1 or 2 clusters but again how useful will that be?
Good questions.
I mean, laying mines and all is cute, but I'd like to keep some straight fire-power too. R-TBR (with Graga) would probably do something, but does the new Vorgon ship support such a setup?
It's not like usual ships where you attack foreward, in that case yes there are no benefits to use this ship, even for a minelayer.
With this ship, you need to show your rear to enemis. if you can't put more than 3 mines at the rear, try to add something else on the 2 slots left.
For example for "The Devourer", I will put 2 plasma mine + 1 nukara mine, maybe the tractor mine if I can at the rear, I can add a plasma omega torpedo.
For the front I put omega cutting beam and a competiton 360 it can work well.
For Noemie, it would be less interesting I think, I will do a beam array build. Or I can do a torpedo/mine build at the rear, I will see what I can do.
About skill and set skill, I saw there are some interesting things who affect foe behind you. I assume those ships aren't weaponless, it would be just something different than usual.
Just ruled out Tricobalt mines those are still broken, no good on a 3/5 ship. Tested Transphasic but the same problem as Quantum, so back to the drawing board for me.
My pets do more then that by themselves.
These people don't really know how to play, and are getting wrecked by the Hurq.
Voila! 3/5 ship! Put moar weapons in the back! Problem solved!
A free T6 ship, when there are people who dont know what theyre doing suddenly at end-game, when there's an enemy that mostly attacks your rear arc, with more aft than fore weapons. What a mystery.
As has been explained numerous times, this ship brings nothing to help you fight the Hur'q.. nothing.
You're not going to run 5 aft mines, cooldown problems would make that useless. Not to mention, you're talking about a ship that doesn't have the bridge officer layout you would need for Mine Dispersal III, you can only go up to 2. This ship has nothing that makes it a better mine layer then a ship with 3 or 4 aft slots, if anything it's actually worse. It also has less then desirable maneuverability to help you place mines where you need them. The ship is a very sub par choice for mines.
Your best way to counter the layout is all beams or all turrets and again.. those work because they overcome the handicap of the weapon layout, they don't take advantage of it.
People who 'don't know how to play' are only going to get worse flying this ship. If you have some super secret build that maximizes the 5 aft layout, by all means.. do share. Experienced players are going to use this ship as exactly what it's best for.. an account wide admiralty card.
Everyone knows this. But if you have no idea what is going on, except for "these things always kill me from behind," then this is something you'll go after. There is no super secret build, just people claiming that there is some secret this ship was made for. There isn't. It's to attract people who just assume "extra aft weapons=good againt the Hurq." People who already know how to play know what to do.
Honestly, everything about it, to me, screams "hot garbage." It's a ship for the noobs, plain and simple. It may keep them alive for 10 extra seconds while theyre getting carried in a Swarm queue, so that means 10 extra seconds for someone to come bail them out, while they contribute very little to actually help complete the STF.
PS: There is a trait that buffs you when you fly backwards
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
It's a free account wide admiralty card for pretty much no effort at all. Five minutes a day for 25 days.. no reason not to unlock it.
Plus, just because it sucks today doesn't mean that some new and powerful aft mountable weapon isn't on the horizon. No reason not to at least unlock it.. you lose nothing by getting it.
That's a good point. One such example being if Tricobalt mines ever get fixed then without the bugs they would work on this ship with 5 rears.
Is there some low-cooldown mine you can use to trigger the mine cooldown reduction projectile DOffs to lower the cooldown on the Tricobalt mines?
I use missiles to trigger the torpedo cooldown reduction projectile DOffs for Tricobalt torpedoes. It's clunky, but it works. Maybe something similar can be done with mines?
I could see an "eject warp plasma" weapon being moderately useful, except, obviously, that it already exists. I can't think of any other kind of powerful aft-mounted weapon, besides mines, that wouldn't just seem like an obvious gimmick to make aft-weapon slots effective. Every time it will be "why can't I just mount this on the front?" Ultimately, it only makes sense it it leaves something behind.
The mine reduction doffs used to be useless but perhaps with the recent changes they will now be ok to use. Still they wont work with Tricobalt's as the problem is global cooldown with those. As far as I am aware the torpedo doffs have the same problem they do not reduce the Tricobalt torpedoes down past 15seconds which makes them have terrible DPS output. A long time ago that global cooldown was removed but it slipped back in as a bug
A while back the Tricobalt cooldown got broken and now the mines send each other on a 15second cooldown so you can never use more than 2 mine launchers even after the recent patch and with the Ordnance console. Also the torpedoes and mines both send each other on the 15 second cooldown so no using torpedoes and mines together which kind of wastes your tactical slots if boosting Tricobalt
Both Tricobalt torpedo and mines have a nasty habit of hitting the enemy NPC going pop and doing zero damage. Not every time just once every so often.
The Tricobalt mines and only Tricobalt mines tend to blow up your own ship which combined with the above bug is rather frustrating to see a mine hit the enemy for zero damage and then do 30k+ to your hull blowing you up. I found with Tricobalt mines I was blowing up my ship more then the enemy.
Also while not a bug the Tricobalt mines have twice the delay before being armed.
Lastly on the rebalanced where the damage was cut in half now DPS is appalling with Tricobalts. My Quantum mine launcher is doing 11,219 damage with 4 mines so 44,876 per launcher volley every 16.7 seconds per launcher. My Tricobalt is doing 46,763 per volley with a 25 second cooldown. So less DPS per launcher and you can fit half as many launchers.