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Ship Injuries Overhaul- Making injuries matter.

thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 404 Arc User

One thing when I played star trek legacy years ago I really like and miss. Was the way your ship could be damaged. Damage that can't be repaired till you dock or respawn. Blown off Nacelles when you use subsystem targeting though that was a mess in that game harder to do had to do it a certain way to disable a npcs ship.

What I'm suggesting here is this. When in advanced queues or higher then normal difficulty. When your ship takes to much damage and you die. Your ship injures would be something serious and not just nerfed weapons damage or hitpoints. I'm sure this would take some good quality coders if they did it. But I'd like to see the ships injuries being connected to the appearance of damage on your ship. For example a blown off wing appearance or blown off nacelle with ship damage look on the hull that does not go away unless the injury is fixed. If they worked on it overtime and added it in within the next few expansions I think it could work and would make a nice addition to star trek online. As for the other thing seen in startrek legecy a proper debris field system where debris floats away when ships destroyed they might not be able to ever add something that complex even though it would be nice too. But I think they could add in the system I'm suggesting that deals with ships Injuries. They might need to add some model adjustments like a missing nacelle or damaged beyond repair look if you have a certain damage injury but there no need for them to hurry on this just something they can do if they wanted too and also they could do it on certain ships but leave other ships alone where this does not happen. Question is do you want to see them add such a system along with new injuries you cannot ignore?

Tried to make this poll not as biased as others have said in my other polls even though it was not intended.
Could have done a simple Yes or no. But I gave people choices in this. I added four Yes based on preference and Four No Options

Here down below of what my idea of a ship injuries overhaul would be like. I know hard core players might like this if they like the challenge and others would really hate it. As it would interfere with their dps or ability to move.


Warp Drive Offline Sub Light speed only while in sector space

Warp Drive offline Critical One or both nacelles missing. Only able to use sublight speeds or impulse while in sector space.

Quantum Stream Drive offline can't use the Stream Drive in sector space.

Impulse offline can't use full impulse

Impulse Offline Critical Can only use thrusters

Torpedo Systems Offline Can't use torpedoes

Beam Weapons offline can't use Beam weapons

Disrupter banks offline can't use Disrupters.

Mine Systems offline can't use Mines.
Transwarp Offline can't use transwarp

If your need is dire and don't have warpdrive or transwarp you can travel in a shuttle while in sector space and if you don't have one call for a towing ship that takes you to earth space dock or any of the nearby hubs where you can repair ships injuries.




Ship Injuries Overhaul- Making injuries matter. 56 votes

Yes serious ship injuries like the ones suggested above plus damaged ship appearance including missing or blown off nacelles.
14%
sistericalcyoneserenecross821grisha5khan1000darmokksentry51kav#7852 8 votes
Yes to Serious Ship Injuries listed above but no damage appearance or blown off Nacelles.
0%
Yes to Serious ship injuries and damaged appearance but no blown off nacelles and just use the damaged look ingame already.
1%
junglestreaker 1 vote
Yes to ships damage appearance but only adding it to the existing injuries system without adding the injuries suggested above in.
3%
jtoney3448kwyjen 2 votes
Heck no too adding the listed ship injuries above such as warpcore/impulse engines being offline or weapons offline. But would not care or mind if they ever added a damage appearance when having ship injuries.
5%
baddmoonrizinkaggert27jabofneurospine 3 votes
No too adding new ships injuries or damaged appearance.
5%
jiralinriaraygor76avoozuul 3 votes
Just a simple No.
44%
reiklingraiderf9thretxcssbn655duncanidaho11psychoplattangarus1zarato4218kodachikunorattler2seaofsorrowstunebreakerdragnridrgradiicrashdragontylermaxwellnimbullzanibarvalarauko43warpangelmez83 25 votes
No because of issues with bugs or lag it could cause. Or because they should do more important things like adding new Costumes/Ships/adding New Factions or adding to existing factions.
14%
meimeitooarliekkosgameversemandjf021casualstoshadowwraith#9264nickkyana#2794haunted101#2485 8 votes
Other
10%
protoneousmustrumridcully0leemwatsonjade1280fleetcaptain5#1134iriskatz#3981 6 votes
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Comments

  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,155 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    No too adding new ships injuries or damaged appearance.
    I think a better idea is to improve ship destruction by adding some generic ship parts flinging across the explosion instead of a ship just disappearing into flames.
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    I think a better idea is to improve ship destruction by adding some generic ship parts flinging across the explosion instead of a ship just disappearing into flames.

    I would like to see them add something like that too. But I know it might not be likely they can do something like that. It would still look better then what it is now. But I do understand this is an mmo and thus they can't have too much debris or clutter going about the game. Maybe why its like this in the first place.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,155 Arc User
    No too adding new ships injuries or damaged appearance.
    Well they did something like that with a few of the patrols except it was with structures instead of ships.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,900 Arc User
    I would just be happy if it weren't so broken.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 46,925 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    Not really a good idea to totally hamper someone like that.
    • Sublight in Sector Space = not going ANYWHERE at all. Might as well not even have a warp core.
    • Knocked out Impulse = dead in the water = WAY easier to hit and thus get MORE injuries
    • Knocked out weapons = unable to even contribute to the STF

    And lets not forget there are those who seem to LOVE collecting injuries and queue up with a line that goes halfway across the screen.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,533 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    No, simply because making ship injuries more critical just makes the repair mechanic more of a necessity. The more severe you make the injury, the more of a necessity it is to work the repair mechanic (if that's something new too) or simply keep spare parts well stocked. I don't think it does anything for STO gameplay (to make the most of losing ship systems, something like Starfleet Command's mechanics and pace of gameplay is more appropriate.)
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  • jade1280jade1280 Member Posts: 848 Arc User
    Other
    Simply put it would kill the fun for those who arnt here to get kicked in the balls by the game.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,393 Arc User
    No because of issues with bugs or lag it could cause. Or because they should do more important things like adding new Costumes/Ships/adding New Factions or adding to existing factions.
    jade1280 wrote: »
    Simply put it would kill the fun for those who arnt here to get kicked in the balls by the game.


    Which is... everyone! Seriously, make no mistake: even those why cry they want to be challenged, they really don't. What they want, is enough of a challenge to feel they accomplished something; but no one, really, nary a one, truly wants to be defeated all the time (or have constant, severe injuries that can't be ignored).
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  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,219 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    You are presenting quite a solid idea, however it would no way fit into a game like STO. Mainly for 2 reasons:

    1. The way the game is designed.
    Most of game's combat takes place in queue based environments. When you die, you'll get to respawn on the very same map without any (harsh) penalties.
    Now, let's assume you system is implemented. I get into a fight that ends really badly, and I rake both Beam Weapons Offline and Warp Drive Offline injuries. For the sake of argument, let's assume I fly a standard beam-boat and don't have any non-beam weapons or science abilities. How am I supposed to complete the mission, without having any way to destroy the opponents? Guess I'll warp out... oh wait, my warp drive is offline too.

    What's the solution then? Only way to get back to the starbase for repairs will be through Customer Support? Or implement even more penalizing system (for example permanently losing your ship/(part of) equipment) so that the players wouldn't just be stuck on that particular map? I'm sure that would be very badly received.

    2. The target audience.

    I already touched this a bit in the previous point - STO is a game catering mostly for pretty casual players. People who might only have an hour or so to play every day, or just people who play to enjoy that Star Trek feel. Adding a seriously penalizing injury system would just be hated by huge majority of the players.

    STO is not a hardcore space simulator, it's a casual MMORPG taking place in space environment. What works in, say, Elite: Dangerous wouldn't work in STO. Adding such a system to this game just wouldn't be feasible without redesigning many major elements already place in game, as well as a big shift in playerbase.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,206 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    Forcing players to waste inventory space on frivolous healing items and manually un-debuff themselves after respawn is not a challenge, just a chore. And turning the debuffs up to eleven won't make it a challenge, just even more of a chore.

    Maybe if there was actually interesting gameplay involved repairing the injuries, they could be worthwhile but as is they are just a useless annoyance.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,206 Arc User
    Other
    Either No, or
    Other: Remove injuries.

    Would be my replies. The injury system was the greatest waste of good development time Crytic ever spend on this game.

    A diehard faction of players said "we need a death penalty system" at launch. Crpytic listened. I bet that none of these players they made it for are still playing. And if they are, ony because they accepted that STO is an easy game and they just enjoy story or space barbie.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,206 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    Either No, or
    Other: Remove injuries.

    Would be my replies. The injury system was the greatest waste of good development time Crytic ever spend on this game.

    A diehard faction of players said "we need a death penalty system" at launch. Crpytic listened. I bet that none of these players they made it for are still playing. And if they are, ony because they accepted that STO is an easy game and they just enjoy story or space barbie.
    It's not even a real death penalty, since it can be removed instantly with common items.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 1,554 Community Moderator
    The problem with your argument is you're trying to compare 2 completely different styles of gameplay between STO and Star Trek Legacy. Legacy was never designed with the kind of combat and so on in mind that happens in STO and was designed as a stand alone game. Without getting into too much technical details it's like comparing apples and oranges as the saying goes, they simply don't go together in the ways you're proposing. The ship injuries today are little more than annoyances that don't benefit gameplay in any way and are easily removed by popping a repair part before you fly back into the fray. With that said there are some practical aspects that I respectfully don't believe have been thought through enough.

    Let's suppose a group of people queue up for Battle of Korfez, which is an elite mode only queue. The queue goes good for the most part, but one of the npcs gets that lucky shot off to kill Bill who is flying an escort. As he's waiting out the clock he's awarded a ship injury that disables his weapons. As he looks for his repair parts he realizes, oops he left them in the bank where he can't get to them and no one else is able to trade him a part for the type of injury he has. Now for the rest of the queue his team is essentially playing a man down since Bill is no longer able to fight, all but guaranteeing the queue to fail. An alternative, instead of knocking out Bill's weapons, the injury knocks out his warp core. However Bill is out in the middle of nowhere in sector space. Since his warp core is down he can't transwarp. So either he limps back to ESD at one inch per year, or has someone bring him a part to get his warp core back online. Either way it's alot more tedious than what it would need to be and for something that provides no benefit to the gameplay.

    Then there's the folks that just flat out refuse to fix ship injuries for whatever reason. The only way something like this would work is if you were not allowed to join a public queue until you fixed all injuries on your ship. Even then I would still fail to see what value this added to the game other than a penalty for the sake of a penalty.
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  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    I think injuries in their current form add flavor to the game and should stay but they don't need any changes.
    Another faction is more than likely to be destructive to the game rather than helping. this game doesn't even have 3 healthy factions, it has one healthy faction, one neglected faction, and one neglected HALF faction.

    For the love of tribble kebab, NO MORE FACTIONS until they can support what we ALREADY HAVE.
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 3,020 Arc User
    Other
    The best ever damage system was in the Starfleet Command series with a live damage and repair system. Every weapon, transporters, tractor beams etc could be damaged and taken off-line, damaged or destroyed and your ship had damage scoring where is was struck.

    I think having warp drive inoperable in sector space is going too far in this game though. You only need to see the complaints about how slow Warp 5 is (even though it's many, many times faster than on-screen!).
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  • littlesarbonnlittlesarbonn Member Posts: 414 Arc User
    Maybe it's just my memory playing tricks on me, but I could have sworn there was an injury system when the game first released that actually required you to seek Starfleet's assistance if you got seriously damaged. I vaguely remember having to call for Starfleet support (and having to pay some kind of fee) in order to get my ship towed back to a star base.

    I know I've been playing this game for a very long time, but I could have sworn that was once a very annoying mechanic that was a part of this game.
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  • disqord#9557 disqord Member Posts: 473 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    As others have said, the injuries you propose are way too severe. There's just no justification for making players unable to play if they die even once. On the other hand, I don't completely hate the idea of having injuries give your ship a damaged appearance, but would prefer if it was toggleable or otherwise (as has been suggested numerous times in the forums) a specific vanity shield than making it a mandatory part of having injuries. Nobody wants to hear the electrical fizzling all the time (except maybe the people who fly Na'Kuhl ships).

    I don't support the idea of just removing injuries either. As much of an annoyance as they are, I do sometimes have fun dying a hundred times over to see how badly crippled my ship can get while I claw my way back from the depths of Gre'thor. I say if people don't want injuries then let them just turn it off, but leave it intact as a legacy feature for those who want it.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,332 Community Moderator
    Heck no too adding the listed ship injuries above such as warpcore/impulse engines being offline or weapons offline. But would not care or mind if they ever added a damage appearance when having ship injuries.
    I think the way ship injuries work is fine the way they are. Although, I wouldn't mind having the damaged appearance that we already get to remain on the ship until its injuries are repaired. Additionally, I'd also rather see our ships get disabled instead of blown up then respawn. There's no reason why we couldn't have the disable with plasma venting visual during the countdown to "respawn" instead of our ships going up in a ball of flames. It just makes sense. And preventing queuing until ship injuries are repaired should definitely be implemented.
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 3,678 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    I only play on Normal anyway to avoid ship injuries. I can play advanced if I want, I just don't.

    Now ship injuries that give a damaged appearance sounds reasonable. Also like BMR's idea of the disabled animation rather than blowing up and a brand new ship respawns. I would support that.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 46,925 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    The one downside to the disable option though is do you recover at the spawn point or right where you were shot down? Because lets say you happened to get between a bunch of bad guys and you "die". You're waiting out the clock and then you "respawn"... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SAME GROUP THAT KILLED YOU.
    Not only that... in a PvP setting... that would basically enable the ultimate form of Spawn Camping. The second you come back online... BAM! Alpha Strike and you're down again.

    While being disabled would make a bit more sense visually, gameplay wise... its not that good an idea. I mean look at ground. Yea you stay where you were killed until you either respawn or are rezzed, but there are times where you wait for a rez, only to basically be bait for the enemy to take down other players. The AI may not be smart enough to set traps like that, but if the guy trying to rez you has aggro, guess who they're gonna shoot.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 3,678 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    Those are good points. And there are gankers who will take advantage of that.

    Ah well, it was a good idea, if maybe you respawn back at the same respawn points you do when you blow up. If that's possible.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,332 Community Moderator
    Heck no too adding the listed ship injuries above such as warpcore/impulse engines being offline or weapons offline. But would not care or mind if they ever added a damage appearance when having ship injuries.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The one downside to the disable option though is do you recover at the spawn point or right where you were shot down? Because lets say you happened to get between a bunch of bad guys and you "die". You're waiting out the clock and then you "respawn"... RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SAME GROUP THAT KILLED YOU.
    Not only that... in a PvP setting... that would basically enable the ultimate form of Spawn Camping. The second you come back online... BAM! Alpha Strike and you're down again.

    While being disabled would make a bit more sense visually, gameplay wise... its not that good an idea. I mean look at ground. Yea you stay where you were killed until you either respawn or are rezzed, but there are times where you wait for a rez, only to basically be bait for the enemy to take down other players. The AI may not be smart enough to set traps like that, but if the guy trying to rez you has aggro, guess who they're gonna shoot.

    Honestly, didn't consider that scenario. Good point. Maybe you still respawn at the respawn point as usual, you just don't go through the whole warp core breach animation. Instead you get a disabled plasma venting animation instead, and then appear at the respawn point when you click respawn. It just becomes a visual difference rather than a functional difference.
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    Other
    Injuries are working just fine as is. Don't heal every time? Minors turn into majors turn into criticals and you're combat ineffective. Don't wait to see the doctor/ship repair guy, heal before re-spawning every time and keep yourself in tip top condition.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    [...]
    And lets not forget there are those who seem to LOVE collecting injuries and queue up with a line that goes halfway across the screen.
    Don't be "that person" lol. Think I counted 18 once.

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 46,925 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    protoneous wrote: »
    Don't be "that person" lol. Think I counted 18 once.

    lol I always keep a supply of repair items in my bank. Can use them right out of the bank too. ^^
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 7,066 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    Don't be "that person" lol. Think I counted 18 once.

    lol I always keep a supply of repair items in my bank. Can use them right out of the bank too. ^^

    So things like Critical Components don't need to be in your inventory to be used?
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  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    Don't be "that person" lol. Think I counted 18 once.

    lol I always keep a supply of repair items in my bank. Can use them right out of the bank too. ^^

    So things like Critical Components don't need to be in your inventory to be used?

    Long as that character has them in personal bank I think
    Another faction is more than likely to be destructive to the game rather than helping. this game doesn't even have 3 healthy factions, it has one healthy faction, one neglected faction, and one neglected HALF faction.

    For the love of tribble kebab, NO MORE FACTIONS until they can support what we ALREADY HAVE.
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    Riov t'Velle, Commander of the R.R.W. Legend (Ryna)
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 7,066 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    gradii wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    Don't be "that person" lol. Think I counted 18 once.

    lol I always keep a supply of repair items in my bank. Can use them right out of the bank too. ^^

    So things like Critical Components don't need to be in your inventory to be used?

    Long as that character has them in personal bank I think

    Nice, I didn't know that. All my characters just keep a stack in their inventory.

    Good to know. :)
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    Other
    gradii wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    Don't be "that person" lol. Think I counted 18 once.

    lol I always keep a supply of repair items in my bank. Can use them right out of the bank too. ^^

    So things like Critical Components don't need to be in your inventory to be used?

    Long as that character has them in personal bank I think
    Yes you can keep them in your bank. I keep 20 each minor/major space/ground in my inventory as the ones in your bank are used first. When you see the ones in your inventory being used it's time to stock up again. Nothing like running out in MIE when things are going bad... This is just my own personal system.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,860 Arc User
    Just a simple No.
    No Ship Injuries didn't work way back when and they stopped doing it. Remember when crew and ship injuires mattered mattered? So many failed PVE queuqes due to the player of healer ships being brain dead and acting like they were DPS ships let the real DPS ships die instead of healing. Your idea would just make that cluster f return but even worse with the higher DPS AI ships in the game. Notice I didn't mention PVP as that is mostly dead and healer players in PVP know what they are doing for the most part.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    Yes serious ship injuries like the ones suggested above plus damaged ship appearance including missing or blown off nacelles.
    Yes, blow the living bits off of these starships! Sufficient extreme damage should make them disabled for a bunch of hours, forcing one to default to other ships or default T1-5 freebies (which can't get disabled because crybabies).

    STO like never before. Out with arcade mode, in with strategy, skill, resource management!
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