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After VIL the next focus really needs to be Klingon

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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Just don't hold your breath. If anything happens be shocked and amazed.

    But when the guy in charge is breathing a sigh of relief that he is no longer required to do anything faction specific....yeah not a good sign for future development.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    I always found it odd that
    1. A star Trek anything has problems selling Klingon stuff to Star Trek fans, and
    2. A business bemoans the fact that certain things aren't selling as well as they'd hoped, yet they refuse to incentivize purchasing them in any way, shape, or form.
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    sinn74 wrote: »
    I always found it odd that
    1. A star Trek anything has problems selling Klingon stuff to Star Trek fans, and
    2. A business bemoans the fact that certain things aren't selling as well as they'd hoped, yet they refuse to incentivize purchasing them in any way, shape, or form.

    Especially after one of those certain things was pretty much a Federation ship(but with worse stats) that had a Klingon coat of paint on it and bugged consoles. patrick knows what I'm talking about.

    Part of it is also dealing with a dev who has an axe to grind against redside. I saw the same thing happen in 2009 with Warhammer Online. It's not a good thing when you have people in charge who let their personal bias railroad or sabotage a portion of customers.
  • kaithan1975kaithan1975 Member Posts: 947 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    If you go by the numbers the faction with the least episodes it's is the Feds (14), then it's the KDF (15), then 23rd Century Feds (20), then the Roms (25).

    Number of episodes are irrelevant as Feds have several large Episodes that for the other factions are split into smaller episodes.
    And I count 13/17/14/17, not sure where you get 25 Rom episodes from.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    patrickngo wrote: »
    \
    I think I did. is that the one with the token Klingon "federation president" on "New Khitomer"? The one cowering in the corner because he's already been neutered and had his spine removed?

    It's the one where we bust Martok out of a House of Torg-backed prison with the help of Kurn. We destroy a whole mess of dishonorable aliens, Martok kills Torg in single combat, and Worf and Sirella arrive at the end too to round out the Klingon cameo list to: pretty much all of them (barring Torres, Miral, wee-Duras, and those that have canonically died in STO.) The only way it could be more thematically Klingon is if Kahless manifested himself after the duel, nods to Martok, and says casually that he's an honorable warrior. And, mind you, the greater focus on Klingons and Klingon history didn't go away (Martok remained our main point of contact) and it isn't changing with ViL (we're fighting the Hur'Q.)

    For the record: you've earned discommendation here.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    \
    I think I did. is that the one with the token Klingon "federation president" on "New Khitomer"? The one cowering in the corner because he's already been neutered and had his spine removed?

    It's the one where we bust Martok out of a House of Torg-backed prison with the help of Kurn. We destroy a whole mess of dishonorable aliens, Martok kills Torg in single combat, and Worf and Sirella arrive at the end too to round out the Klingon cameo list to: pretty much all of them (barring Torres, Miral, wee-Duras, and those that have canonically died in STO.) The only way it could be more thematically Klingon is if Kahless manifested himself after the duel, nods to Martok, and says casually that he's an honorable warrior. And, mind you, the greater focus on Klingons and Klingon history didn't go away (Martok remained our main point of contact) and it isn't changing with ViL (we're fighting the Hur'Q.)

    For the record: you've earned discommendation here.

    See, when patrick made the question, I decided to go along with it. Considering in Brushfire, Martok(token Klingon "federation president" in the prison("New Khitomer") might as well be the one cowering in his cell, while we bust his butt out, drag him with us on a merry rampage through Torg's shag pad, then he's there with pompoms while we do the heavy lifting against the Blastoise boss at the end.

    For what it's worth, I would have rather that Worf be the one to put Torg down, after what Torg did.

  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,843 Arc User
    After VIL the next focus really needs to be Klingon

    No it doesn't. It needs to be something that increases both quality and quantity for the entire game, not just one faction or another. Like a whole new layer of gameplay that gives us meaningful things to do that results in persistent results and effects that go beyond just the individual. An automated system that drives and facilitates hourly, daily, weekly and monthly events and could consist of scenarios related to exploration, colonization and industrialization.

    Hook this layer into ship interiors with added functionality to facilitate different secondary activities and we would have a system that keeps players active and makes interiors commercially viable again.

    If done correctly, then the new system could also be used to roll out hand-crafted content like we get now, So what I propose does not remove anything, but adds something for everyone.

    A new design of ship interiors to add a new section accessible via turbolift that would include both the conference lounge and Holodeck. The Holodeck arch would access the Foundry system. And ideally the redesigned interior maps would have reference points that could tie into episodic content allowing encounters on our own ships.

    In fact, if done right, the entire game, with the exception of events involving space flight and combat, could be played from inside our ships.

    If I were designing that expansion, I would call it "These are the voyages..."

    except what you propose has zero monetization. my OP was to give love to the godawful layout of the First City, and to monetize new KFD ships, ships that have been wanted for YEARS.
    Spock.jpg

  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    After VIL the next focus really needs to be Klingon

    No it doesn't. It needs to be something that increases both quality and quantity for the entire game, not just one faction or another. Like a whole new layer of gameplay that gives us meaningful things to do that results in persistent results and effects that go beyond just the individual. An automated system that drives and facilitates hourly, daily, weekly and monthly events and could consist of scenarios related to exploration, colonization and industrialization.

    Hook this layer into ship interiors with added functionality to facilitate different secondary activities and we would have a system that keeps players active and makes interiors commercially viable again.

    If done correctly, then the new system could also be used to roll out hand-crafted content like we get now, So what I propose does not remove anything, but adds something for everyone.

    A new design of ship interiors to add a new section accessible via turbolift that would include both the conference lounge and Holodeck. The Holodeck arch would access the Foundry system. And ideally the redesigned interior maps would have reference points that could tie into episodic content allowing encounters on our own ships.

    In fact, if done right, the entire game, with the exception of events involving space flight and combat, could be played from inside our ships.

    If I were designing that expansion, I would call it "These are the voyages..."

    and where would your dream system most likely be applied, sits?

    Fedside.

    The whole game is incentivised to Starfleet, with occasional bumps of OP powerselling with the Romulans, AoY and coming in a few days, Jem'Hadar, but in terms of what's been done, it's a development of one faction, with "a Destiny" since 2011.

    everything KDF has gotten since has either been pushed from above and done reluctantly, or openly geared, written, focused, and structured for Federation/Starfleet players and fleets.

    "The Whole Game" has been "Starfleet is SO AWESOME!!!"

    even down to structuring missions specifically around Starfleet's particular capabilities throughout the PvE, every point of view is Pro-Starfleet, even during the "Klingon war" arc, as a KDF, you're carrying water for Federation Intelligence.

    the only storyline where this isn't the case, is the Fek'Ihri returns, and that one was a 2010/2011 mission set using the first version of First City, the version that was axed for the current version (also in 2011).

    'good for the whole game' isn't piling on a bunch of powercreep and calling it an 'expansion', esp. not when it's blatantly obvious who that powercreep is really supposed to benefit.

    'good for the whole game' would be to sit down, and either make the KDF faction relevant (beyond supplying a few cameos by famous actors and storylines showing how stupid, brainless, awkward and clumsy the Klingons are) to the metastory, not just as body-bag filler and convenient redshirts when they're not being popup targets, but relevant to the Alliance.

    as in, giving KDF players a reason to stay, and Federation players a reason to want them to.

    beyond "Kontraband Dilithium Farms".

    Relevance, means something to the faction you don't get from a lockbox when they need fillers, relevance doesn't mean being the beta-test for the next goodie to give Federation players, relevance doesn't mean a pool of game mechanics to hand out in the next pay-to-win bundle.

    relevance=relevance. Impact, a purpose for existing in the game. They've already 86'ed the PvP aspect with regards to faction on faction, but that doesn't necessarily mean all options are null.

    it's a matter of finding and establishing the 'killer application' for Red team-the thing they do, that Starfleet can't, or doesn't, do, and running with it as a factional specification.

    well, we can't use DPS-that one belongs to the Romufeds and the Jem'hadfeds.

    and they hand out cloak like it's candy.

    it's not ship types-because all the KDF specific ship types (in improved form) have already been distributed to the Fed/Starfleet side of the equation.

    So that leaves us with 'story impact' or 'game economy influence'.

    which can bring us back to...

    PvP..

    See, the Klingons have built-in conflict. they don't have to create a whole "Romulan Empire" side to fight D'Tan for the same sort of application, and the Dominion is a giant monoculture as per the Canon regarding the races that are available.

    But Klingons fight each other. lots.

    even in 'peacetime'.

    they've killed off the Torg plotline, but that doesn't mean the Empire's finished with internal squabbling, and Klingons LOVE to debate politics with fists, blades, disruptors, and starships.

    it's almost their replacement for free and fair elections, lawsuits, and civil court cases.

    How do we make it relevant?

    well...

    you know how, during 'recruit events' in the past, players hitting certain 'marks' influence things like Dilithium and Skillpoints across the board??

    alright, pay attention, this gets sick.

    set up a 'Record queue', this record queue will keep a leaderboard, it'll keep track, and the results will be tallied at the end of a patch cycle (every thursday).

    now, you provide players with a choice for their KDF characters (or fleets); Those in favour of the Alliance, and those with opposition to it.

    The queue will be KvK, and 'sides' based on which affiliation the player (or fleet) chooses.

    The queue will also be random assignment. (no premades), and only available to actual, honest-to-kahless KDF players (not romulan or Jemmy, ONLY pure KDF characters can enter).

    straight win/loss matches, variations of Arena, Cap and hold, Ground Arena, and a 'back streets of Qo'noS' map for the ground territory control mission.

    We set it up in 'tiers', each tier having a percentage of influence on the outcome (that is, contributes to the final figure), with a straight 50%-plus-one split of wins/losses between our two intrafactional sides.

    If the Pro-Alliance forces win more matches than the antis do, there will be a bonus applied to one of the following for every non-KDF player in the game for the next week. if Pro alliance wins, the only faction that does not get the boost, is KDF.

    Arena: Skill Points
    Cap and Hold: Fleet Marks
    Ground Arena: Energy Credits
    Territorial fight: DIlithium.

    If Anti-Alliance teams win out, that all goes straight to KDF players. all KDF players, regardless of side.

    The tiers will fall in something like this; since pvp is possible at low level, but pays nothing, (thus, why would anyone do it at below-level cap) it will have the highest percentage influence on payouts.

    Tier 1: Levels 1-9 40%
    Tier 2: Levels 10-19: 30%
    Tier 3: Levels 20-29: 15%
    Tier 4: Levels 30-39: 10%
    Tier 5: Levels 40-50: 4%
    Tier 6: Levels 51-65: 1%

    Multiply total wins at each tier, by the percentage, then divide by a value, total the product, and that's how MUCH each "record match" is worth to the winning side as a percentage bonus to a given commodity.

    thus creating a 'purpose' for the Redside, which is relevant to the alliance, provides protection from powercreep, and is difficult to cheat since you can't do it on a private match server, and since it's 'barred' from the other factions in the game, it's a 'trick' only the Klingon faction can carry off.

    and to provide the 'candy' (items)...

    each Tier has a special cosmetic unlock or character item that can only be earned at that tier, by winning matches, and its color-coded or mechanically linked so that it announces which side you were on when you earned it.

    suggested items?

    useable D'ktag (Klingon dagger)
    'Animal handler' kit modules or bridge officer (useable in PvE)
    Side-specific ship unlocks for your fleet/variants of existing fleet ships
    Armor visuals
    Dahar Master Greatcoat (only if you've won awards on each tier) color-coded or styled according to which side you're on.
    Armor visuals specific to which part of the debate you're fighting for.

    The items would be 'tier level' unlocks, requiring a win in each available 'Record queue', obtainable from a 'store' that is an NPC acting as 'mission giver' for your particular sub-faction. (the Pro-Alliance mission giver would be J'mPok, of course, or Ja'Rod. The opposition should be an NPC hanging out in the bar at Qo'noS, or maybe the Judge outside the prison.)

    but i'm not finished yet.

    PvE.

    some Klingon Empire specific leveling missions to replace the pre-Khitomer 'cross faction' missions and storylines, events happening simultaneously, and a choice of whether to follow the same exact actions your Fed already did, or do these missions instead.

    it could even be expanded so that your Klingon doesn't get talked down to like a b*tch by some junior ranker on kobali prime-because you don't have to go there, you can be doing something else that has tangentially the same overarching importance in setting up the Iconian War arc.

    How about some conflicts with non-Federation actors on the OTHER END of the Empire, instead of hauling off to play stephan fetchit for diplomats in Federation space? or add in some actual 'hunting the qa'meh'quv' missions instead of playing ghost-busters on Drozana station, hmmm?

    They could even try experimenting with PvE missions where cloaking is useful for more than a short-duration crit boost. something like "you can run in there, exposed and nekkid like some Earthling pict, screaming, or you can bypass the pickets and fight your way out" missions, missions where stealth is useful.

    some alternative versions of the Iconian War, too-missions where you're fighting them, defending refugee columns, supply columns, seeking out ways to track and find them and pin them down, rather than going with the Emperor's vainglorious suicide pact or Kagran's idiotic frontal assaults.

    and then...some missions for KDF forces that aren't rescuing the damn silly humans from their mirror universe counterparts.

    and of course, getting the chance to tell 'Agent Daniels' to go do something unnatural with a Targ because you're not ready to give up the Empire's future on the say-so of a Federation provocateur might be fun.



    maxresdefault.jpg
    I don't even particularly like Klingons and I think that would be awesome. Especially the bit towards the end of telling Daniels to stick a daqtagh where the sun don't shine.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,843 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    After VIL the next focus really needs to be Klingon

    No it doesn't. It needs to be something that increases both quality and quantity for the entire game, not just one faction or another. Like a whole new layer of gameplay that gives us meaningful things to do that results in persistent results and effects that go beyond just the individual. An automated system that drives and facilitates hourly, daily, weekly and monthly events and could consist of scenarios related to exploration, colonization and industrialization.

    Hook this layer into ship interiors with added functionality to facilitate different secondary activities and we would have a system that keeps players active and makes interiors commercially viable again.

    If done correctly, then the new system could also be used to roll out hand-crafted content like we get now, So what I propose does not remove anything, but adds something for everyone.

    A new design of ship interiors to add a new section accessible via turbolift that would include both the conference lounge and Holodeck. The Holodeck arch would access the Foundry system. And ideally the redesigned interior maps would have reference points that could tie into episodic content allowing encounters on our own ships.

    In fact, if done right, the entire game, with the exception of events involving space flight and combat, could be played from inside our ships.

    If I were designing that expansion, I would call it "These are the voyages..."

    and where would your dream system most likely be applied, sits?

    Fedside.

    The whole game is incentivised to Starfleet, with occasional bumps of OP powerselling with the Romulans, AoY and coming in a few days, Jem'Hadar, but in terms of what's been done, it's a development of one faction, with "a Destiny" since 2011.

    everything KDF has gotten since has either been pushed from above and done reluctantly, or openly geared, written, focused, and structured for Federation/Starfleet players and fleets.

    "The Whole Game" has been "Starfleet is SO AWESOME!!!"

    even down to structuring missions specifically around Starfleet's particular capabilities throughout the PvE, every point of view is Pro-Starfleet, even during the "Klingon war" arc, as a KDF, you're carrying water for Federation Intelligence.

    the only storyline where this isn't the case, is the Fek'Ihri returns, and that one was a 2010/2011 mission set using the first version of First City, the version that was axed for the current version (also in 2011).

    'good for the whole game' isn't piling on a bunch of powercreep and calling it an 'expansion', esp. not when it's blatantly obvious who that powercreep is really supposed to benefit.

    'good for the whole game' would be to sit down, and either make the KDF faction relevant (beyond supplying a few cameos by famous actors and storylines showing how stupid, brainless, awkward and clumsy the Klingons are) to the metastory, not just as body-bag filler and convenient redshirts when they're not being popup targets, but relevant to the Alliance.

    as in, giving KDF players a reason to stay, and Federation players a reason to want them to.

    beyond "Kontraband Dilithium Farms".

    Relevance, means something to the faction you don't get from a lockbox when they need fillers, relevance doesn't mean being the beta-test for the next goodie to give Federation players, relevance doesn't mean a pool of game mechanics to hand out in the next pay-to-win bundle.

    relevance=relevance. Impact, a purpose for existing in the game. They've already 86'ed the PvP aspect with regards to faction on faction, but that doesn't necessarily mean all options are null.

    it's a matter of finding and establishing the 'killer application' for Red team-the thing they do, that Starfleet can't, or doesn't, do, and running with it as a factional specification.

    well, we can't use DPS-that one belongs to the Romufeds and the Jem'hadfeds.

    and they hand out cloak like it's candy.

    it's not ship types-because all the KDF specific ship types (in improved form) have already been distributed to the Fed/Starfleet side of the equation.

    So that leaves us with 'story impact' or 'game economy influence'.

    which can bring us back to...

    PvP..

    See, the Klingons have built-in conflict. they don't have to create a whole "Romulan Empire" side to fight D'Tan for the same sort of application, and the Dominion is a giant monoculture as per the Canon regarding the races that are available.

    But Klingons fight each other. lots.

    even in 'peacetime'.

    they've killed off the Torg plotline, but that doesn't mean the Empire's finished with internal squabbling, and Klingons LOVE to debate politics with fists, blades, disruptors, and starships.

    it's almost their replacement for free and fair elections, lawsuits, and civil court cases.

    How do we make it relevant?

    well...

    you know how, during 'recruit events' in the past, players hitting certain 'marks' influence things like Dilithium and Skillpoints across the board??

    alright, pay attention, this gets sick.

    set up a 'Record queue', this record queue will keep a leaderboard, it'll keep track, and the results will be tallied at the end of a patch cycle (every thursday).

    now, you provide players with a choice for their KDF characters (or fleets); Those in favour of the Alliance, and those with opposition to it.

    The queue will be KvK, and 'sides' based on which affiliation the player (or fleet) chooses.

    The queue will also be random assignment. (no premades), and only available to actual, honest-to-kahless KDF players (not romulan or Jemmy, ONLY pure KDF characters can enter).

    straight win/loss matches, variations of Arena, Cap and hold, Ground Arena, and a 'back streets of Qo'noS' map for the ground territory control mission.

    We set it up in 'tiers', each tier having a percentage of influence on the outcome (that is, contributes to the final figure), with a straight 50%-plus-one split of wins/losses between our two intrafactional sides.

    If the Pro-Alliance forces win more matches than the antis do, there will be a bonus applied to one of the following for every non-KDF player in the game for the next week. if Pro alliance wins, the only faction that does not get the boost, is KDF.

    Arena: Skill Points
    Cap and Hold: Fleet Marks
    Ground Arena: Energy Credits
    Territorial fight: DIlithium.

    If Anti-Alliance teams win out, that all goes straight to KDF players. all KDF players, regardless of side.

    The tiers will fall in something like this; since pvp is possible at low level, but pays nothing, (thus, why would anyone do it at below-level cap) it will have the highest percentage influence on payouts.

    Tier 1: Levels 1-9 40%
    Tier 2: Levels 10-19: 30%
    Tier 3: Levels 20-29: 15%
    Tier 4: Levels 30-39: 10%
    Tier 5: Levels 40-50: 4%
    Tier 6: Levels 51-65: 1%

    Multiply total wins at each tier, by the percentage, then divide by a value, total the product, and that's how MUCH each "record match" is worth to the winning side as a percentage bonus to a given commodity.

    thus creating a 'purpose' for the Redside, which is relevant to the alliance, provides protection from powercreep, and is difficult to cheat since you can't do it on a private match server, and since it's 'barred' from the other factions in the game, it's a 'trick' only the Klingon faction can carry off.

    and to provide the 'candy' (items)...

    each Tier has a special cosmetic unlock or character item that can only be earned at that tier, by winning matches, and its color-coded or mechanically linked so that it announces which side you were on when you earned it.

    suggested items?

    useable D'ktag (Klingon dagger)
    'Animal handler' kit modules or bridge officer (useable in PvE)
    Side-specific ship unlocks for your fleet/variants of existing fleet ships
    Armor visuals
    Dahar Master Greatcoat (only if you've won awards on each tier) color-coded or styled according to which side you're on.
    Armor visuals specific to which part of the debate you're fighting for.

    The items would be 'tier level' unlocks, requiring a win in each available 'Record queue', obtainable from a 'store' that is an NPC acting as 'mission giver' for your particular sub-faction. (the Pro-Alliance mission giver would be J'mPok, of course, or Ja'Rod. The opposition should be an NPC hanging out in the bar at Qo'noS, or maybe the Judge outside the prison.)

    but i'm not finished yet.

    PvE.

    some Klingon Empire specific leveling missions to replace the pre-Khitomer 'cross faction' missions and storylines, events happening simultaneously, and a choice of whether to follow the same exact actions your Fed already did, or do these missions instead.

    it could even be expanded so that your Klingon doesn't get talked down to like a b*tch by some junior ranker on kobali prime-because you don't have to go there, you can be doing something else that has tangentially the same overarching importance in setting up the Iconian War arc.

    How about some conflicts with non-Federation actors on the OTHER END of the Empire, instead of hauling off to play stephan fetchit for diplomats in Federation space? or add in some actual 'hunting the qa'meh'quv' missions instead of playing ghost-busters on Drozana station, hmmm?

    They could even try experimenting with PvE missions where cloaking is useful for more than a short-duration crit boost. something like "you can run in there, exposed and nekkid like some Earthling pict, screaming, or you can bypass the pickets and fight your way out" missions, missions where stealth is useful.

    some alternative versions of the Iconian War, too-missions where you're fighting them, defending refugee columns, supply columns, seeking out ways to track and find them and pin them down, rather than going with the Emperor's vainglorious suicide pact or Kagran's idiotic frontal assaults.

    and then...some missions for KDF forces that aren't rescuing the damn silly humans from their mirror universe counterparts.

    and of course, getting the chance to tell 'Agent Daniels' to go do something unnatural with a Targ because you're not ready to give up the Empire's future on the say-so of a Federation provocateur might be fun.



    maxresdefault.jpg
    I don't even particularly like Klingons and I think that would be awesome. Especially the bit towards the end of telling Daniels to stick a daqtagh where the sun don't shine.

    let alone that little Bajoran b*tch at DS9. I want to split her wide open with a Bat'leth
    Spock.jpg

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    full.gif
    So violent... what brought that desire up?
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    full.gif
    So violent... what brought that desire up?

    Because Kurland and Daniels have plot armor.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    Um... Kurland is Human. Who's the Bajoran that people want to take out?
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    HOLY TRIBBLE.....they did something... we can all die happy now:
    Patch notes:
    • Targ Handlers have trained their Targs how to walk and sleep obediently again.
    • Gorn now have their jaw animate properly when using their bite attack.
    • Bank consoles have been added to the Klingon Defense Force Shipyard.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    I don't see anything about making Franklin Drake target-able on Rura Penthe, though. :(
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,843 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Um... Kurland is Human. Who's the Bajoran that people want to take out?
    that snotty dock control officer that gives you her opinion to watch your step or somesuch..
    Spock.jpg

  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    For what it's worth, I would have rather that Worf be the one to put Torg down, after what Torg did.

    It would have provided greater circularity but we've already seen Worf take personal revenge for the death of a loved one at the hands of the male head of a traitorous Klingon house. I don't think it would have carried greater resonance or would have fit any interpretation of Worf having evolved as a character since (he'd be doing the exact same thing, though under less dramatic circumstances. It doesn't preclude growth but it doesn't demonstrate it either. The plot point would be a neutral one.)

    Martok had strong personal grievances as well (see. being taken prisoner again, though this time for a strictly personal agenda which cuts deeper to the character. There's absolutely nothing [in terms of galactic stakes] compelling him to rise above this, so when he does it's on him for doing so) and JG was available to do the part (Dorn's line was recycled and despite his character's relationships with many of the recent cameos (ie. Kurn, Martok, DS9 cast) he's not returning with ViL.)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    "The next focus should be Klingon"
    Why? because the Empire needs to be overhauled.
    Qo'noS is amap that's a mess.
    the entire KDF playerbase wants more content
    and finally, the KDF needs T6 ships. Specifically, a T6 Vor'cha, Karfi, Vo'Quv. I would also welcome a Varanus variant the KDF needs Science. and finally the only canon Klingon ship not in the game.. the K'Vort I's love to see her as a battlecruiser, but a Sci ship would be fine...
    So... here is the problem. Whatever Cryptic does... no one will be happy.

    "House Pegh" is one of the most disappointing stories in STO, and it is (mostly) "Klingon centric", yet it comes across as vapid pandering. A revamped or new story would likely include some klingon warrior bravely fighting their way through an entire Voth Fortress ship (with nothing but a mek'leth), only to bravely die before accomplishing anything. Any of the other KDF races would get little or no mention, because the KDF is "Klingon only".

    Then you have the more... vocal... members of the KDF community. Qo'nos would get revamped and be immediately dismissed as a "copy-paste of ESD", and will have scorn heaped upon it. Just like the "useless" KDF science ships (Naj'sov and the Gorn T6 super science vessels) that are "copy-pastes of Federation science vessels, but inferior in every way".

    A Klingon-centric event would see Cryptic and the players working hand-in-hand to make it... "memorable". I don't think anyone really wants that.
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    "The next focus should be Klingon"
    So... here is the problem. Whatever Cryptic does... no one will be happy.

    That's not true. What's true is the die-hard "WHAT IS FED PRIVILEGE?" players would be unhappy. You know, unless there were rewards, because those same people love the boring TRIBBLE system because it has great rewards. It's true. That's literally what people said they liked about it when it launched.
    redvenge wrote: »
    "House Pegh" is one of the most disappointing stories in STO, and it is (mostly) "Klingon centric", yet it comes across as vapid pandering. A revamped or new story would likely include some klingon warrior bravely fighting their way through an entire Voth Fortress ship (with nothing but a mek'leth), only to bravely die before accomplishing anything. Any of the other KDF races would get little or no mention, because the KDF is "Klingon only".

    So, instead of offering suggestions, it's best to just throw your arms up and say "Cryptic can't do it, under any circumstances"? That doesn't seem very productive.
    redvenge wrote: »
    Then you have the more... vocal... members of the KDF community. Qo'nos would get revamped and be immediately dismissed as a "copy-paste of ESD", and will have scorn heaped upon it. Just like the "useless" KDF science ships (Naj'sov and the Gorn T6 super science vessels) that are "copy-pastes of Federation science vessels, but inferior in every way".
    If it was a lazy copy/paste, sure. No one wants a lazy copy/paste. I've never seen anyone ask for that.
    You know, there was a fairly active thread with detailed specifics about what kind of ships KDF players wanted after DR came out. The next several series of ships/bundles were FAW spam, FED-type cruisers, which no one had asked for. See, copy/paste is not what people want, and it's not hard to find out exactly what they do want. Just ask!
    redvenge wrote: »
    A Klingon-centric event would see Cryptic and the players working hand-in-hand to make it... "memorable". I don't think anyone really wants that.
    If Cryptic is completely unable to actually make money from selling Klingon things to Star Trek fans, it's their failure alone. It's not like there's a shortage of requests coming from the KDF. Or, at least, there wasn't before people started getting annoyed with being ignored.

    I'd be willing to bet that, if they were to ask, both here and on Reddit/Facebook/Twitter, there would be a flood of ideas coming in. There always are (remember when they asked about Klingon aesthetic ship design?). A lazy copy/paste serves no one well, as you rightly point out, but why would it have to be a lazy copy/paste? If they don't understand what people want to do with the KDF, it's not exactly difficult to find out, if they so chose. It's just that they don't.

  • grumpyowl#1151 grumpyowl Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    As much as I'd love to see a Klingon cleanup, I don't see it happening any time soon. I'm still throwing my support for a Borg Cooperative faction.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    sinn74 wrote: »
    So, instead of offering suggestions, it's best to just throw your arms up and say "Cryptic can't do it, under any circumstances"? That doesn't seem very productive.
    House Pegh several Klingon writing issues Cryptic has in one episode:

    Klingons Don't Science. When you see Klingons doing "science", they are dishonored mess-ups. Are the dishonored mess-ups the ones who are creating new ships and weapons for the KDF? Why don't you see any Klingons "sciencing away" on the Annorax Project?

    The Only Race in the KDF are Klingons. All the non-Klingons are rando NPCs who's only function is decorative. There are no Nausicaan, Lethean, KDF Orion, or Ferasan NPCs that are "major" NPCs. Meanwhile, on the blue side, nearly every race has representation in some important position. To be fair, most of these NPCs don't really introduce you to their species or culture, but it's better than nothing... which is what the other KDF races have.

    True Klingons are Dumb Brutes. The Kahless vs T'Ket fight is really, really stupid. We've seen Iconians wave their hand and pop Klingons like soap bubbles, yet Kahless wants to challenge T'Ket with a pointy relic. Luckily, Iconians have congenital brain damage. This causes them to conveniently fight in hand to hand combat when demanded by plot, and build their Omega reactors to shunt BOLTS OF ENERGY INTO THE OPERATING SPACE WHEN YOU PUSH A COUPLE OF BUTTONS. This allows our stupid Emperor to hack up an equally stupid Iconian. While all parties involved have made numerous poor life choices, one of the worst is Kahless's assumption that T'ket would not simply pop him like a zit.

    All of these issues have been pointed out, and not really addressed. If ViL turns out to have some KDF allied races in "lead roles" as well as Klingon scientists treated with respect, then you are right. There is reason to hope. True Klingons are Dumb Brutes is such an ingrained trope, I doubt it will ever go away. If it does, I will be even more surprised.
    sinn74 wrote: »
    If it was a lazy copy/paste, sure. No one wants a lazy copy/paste. I've never seen anyone ask for that.
    You know, there was a fairly active thread with detailed specifics about what kind of ships KDF players wanted after DR came out. The next several series of ships/bundles were FAW spam, FED-type cruisers, which no one had asked for. See, copy/paste is not what people want, and it's not hard to find out exactly what they do want. Just ask!
    I never said anyone asked for a "copy-paste". I said that some vocal members of the KDF community are overly critical and hyper-sensitive to perceived flaws. Even here you state "ask us what we want and give it to us". If they don't, are you going to automatically reject it? That seems to be the default for some posters.
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    Miral Paris can make the Empire rise back to being epic again. I think they should do more with her gamewise. Maybe she can be as great as Kahless.
  • nikkobrisbanenikkobrisbane Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    Klingons already got a make over, why do they need another?
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