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ambassadorkael#6946 ambassadorkael Member, Administrator Posts: 2,673 Community Manager
A former and current Chancellor of the Klingon Empire must decide where they stand, before the Hur'q lays the entire quadrant low, in our latest fiction blog!

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10901993
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Comments

  • dirlettiadirlettia Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Ooh T'kuvma, was he in original Trek lore or is that a nod to Discovery?

    Edit: A nice overall description of why the new episodes are going to be Federation centered with the KDF being only represented in a small way.

    Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,378 Arc User
    dirlettia wrote: »
    Ooh T'kuvma, was he in original Trek lore or is that a nod to Discovery?

    Edit: A nice overall description of why the new episodes are going to be Federation centered with the KDF being only represented in a small way.

    The Klingons have enjoyed a lot of involvement from the Iconian war onward. It's been very enjoyable.
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • commanderkassycommanderkassy Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    dirlettia wrote: »
    Ooh T'kuvma, was he in original Trek lore or is that a nod to Discovery?

    Edit: A nice overall description of why the new episodes are going to be Federation centered with the KDF being only represented in a small way.

    Discovery is canon, it and every other TV show and movie are "original Trek lore".
    ♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
    It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    I almost laughed at the end of this fictional blurb, as though they were trying to inject a little propaganda symbolism in there.

    Of course, the Klingon Empire had a lot of involvement in the Iconian War. They shouldered the butcher's bill for the other two empires(yes, the Federation is an empire), and were made to look like chumps while doing so. It would make quite a bit of sense if J'mpok isn't quite so keen to throw more of his depleted forces in after that. Especially since he's rightly viewing it as his nation has gotten the raw end of this Galactic Alliance.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    I am quite impressed: for once Cryptic's Klingons actually read like reasonable, intelligent people instead of thuggish braggarts. I still don't like Jimmy Pok or the the "Martok back from the dead" plot, but this is a good story.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • vorwodavorwoda Member Posts: 694 Arc User
    dirlettia wrote: »
    Ooh T'kuvma, was he in original Trek lore or is that a nod to Discovery?

    Edit: A nice overall description of why the new episodes are going to be Federation centered with the KDF being only represented in a small way.

    It's a nod to Discovery. He's not in "original Trek lore". TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, ENT? Not a word.

    On topic: Nice story! If J'mpok does break the Alliance, at least one good thing will have come from his reign. But I can't wait till Martok finally kills J'mpok, and returns glory to the Empire!

    Alas, that will probably happen about the time when Donatra is liberated from the Borg, kills Sela, and restores the Romulan Star Empire to glory. In other words, never.
  • iranoveryourdogiranoveryourdog Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    can we just forget about discovery already? those are not klingons. t'kuvma has no place here... whats next? wookies?
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    vorwoda wrote: »
    dirlettia wrote: »
    Ooh T'kuvma, was he in original Trek lore or is that a nod to Discovery?

    Edit: A nice overall description of why the new episodes are going to be Federation centered with the KDF being only represented in a small way.

    It's a nod to Discovery. He's not in "original Trek lore". TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, ENT? Not a word.

    On topic: Nice story! If J'mpok does break the Alliance, at least one good thing will have come from his reign. But I can't wait till Martok finally kills J'mpok, and returns glory to the Empire!

    Alas, that will probably happen about the time when Donatra is liberated from the Borg, kills Sela, and restores the Romulan Star Empire to glory. In other words, never.

    Agreed. If J'mpok is smart, he'll withdraw the Klingon Empire from the Alliance. With how it's bleeding his people dry. And it would be pleasing if he did so with a political hammer's blow.

    Likewise, I do wish they built more on Donatra stuff. I wonder who had the bright idea of having her go from Empress Donatra to all of a sudden Robo-Rommy. Out of nowhere too.
  • thecrusaderxthecrusaderx Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    can we just forget about discovery already? those are not klingons. t'kuvma has no place here... whats next? wookies?

    Well we can't really. If CBS/Paramount is involved in its creation. Its as canon as Deep Space Nine.

    tumblr_p7rwq2Qtxu1wsk1foo1_500.jpg

  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
    Sure wish Martok had killed J'mpok and taken his rightful place as leader of the Klingon Empire. J'mpok is being a coward, hiding behind the very Federation he once declared war on to prevent the Klingon Empire tearing itself apart from within, like a cowering simpering little babe.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,762 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    can we just forget about discovery already? those are not klingons. t'kuvma has no place here... whats next? wookies?

    Well we can't really. If CBS/Paramount is involved in its creation. Its as canon as Deep Space Nine.

    Also, Gene's son, Eugene Wesley "Rod" Roddenberry Jr. is an Executive Producer on Discovery.

    Some where along the way CBS decided to keep it in the family to make it officialdom.
    https://imdb.com/name/nm0734473/
    f5cc65bc8f3b91f963e328314df7c48d.jpg
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • tasshenatasshena Member Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    can we just forget about discovery already? those are not klingons. t'kuvma has no place here... whats next? wookies?

    Well we can't really. If CBS/Paramount is involved in its creation. Its as canon as Deep Space Nine.

    Also, Gene's son, Eugene Wesley "Rod" Roddenberry Jr. is an Executive Producer on Discovery.

    Some where along the way CBS decided to keep it in the family to make it officialdom.
    https://imdb.com/name/nm0734473/

    Is he an active exec? Or is he an "executive producer" like Roddenberry Sr. was in 3rd season, where he was listed as one but withdrew from actively managing anything in favor of Fred Freiberger, knowing the show was being killed with the time slot change?

    CBS might have put him on as an 'in name only' executive producer and tossed a little cash his way in hopes of getting the Trek fandom to 'shut up and accept it'. :p
  • starfallarmadastarfallarmada Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    Im with the majority here, I enjoyed this exchange. Its easy to get in the habit of thinking of the Klingons as being myopic and one dimensional, so its great to see each man arguing to defy different tenets of their own culture in the face of reality. Each man is right and wrong in their own way. And the bits about Martok dealing with an irrational phobia of the man who killed him are fantastic and bring a realism and depth to an already great character.
  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    "Each time we have allied ourselves with the Federation, with the Romulans, the Empire has emerged weaker for it."

    Jm'Pok is in something of a pickle......he almost certainly knows the Klingons are destined to join the Federation, and while he clearly doesn't like that, trying to fight (Manifest) Destiny only makes things worse, kinda like how in the Terminator universe Skynet's every attempt to avert it's ultimate demise at the hands of John Connor merely makes him stronger. Trying to prevent the Federation from Manifesting it's Destiny on them just makes the Feds even stronger relative to them. He can't stop it, and can't walk away either....as the Romulans begin their march through the Federation's agencies, and Starfleet bridges everywhere fill up with sexy Romulan women with SRO. ;)

    If Player behavior is a guide for how the future goes.....future Romulans will venerate D'Tan as the shrewdest Romulan to ever have lived.

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    If Player behavior is a guide for how the future goes.....future Romulans will venerate D'Tan as the shrewdest Romulan to ever have lived.
    "Future" Romulans? Well, not all present Romulans do, but some.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    "Each time we have allied ourselves with the Federation, with the Romulans, the Empire has emerged weaker for it."

    Jm'Pok is in something of a pickle......he almost certainly knows the Klingons are destined to join the Federation, and while he clearly doesn't like that, trying to fight (Manifest) Destiny only makes things worse, kinda like how in the Terminator universe Skynet's every attempt to avert it's ultimate demise at the hands of John Connor merely makes him stronger. Trying to prevent the Federation from Manifesting it's Destiny on them just makes the Feds even stronger relative to them. He can't stop it, and can't walk away either....as the Romulans begin their march through the Federation's agencies, and Starfleet bridges everywhere fill up with sexy Romulan women with SRO. ;)

    If Player behavior is a guide for how the future goes.....future Romulans will venerate D'Tan as the shrewdest Romulan to ever have lived.

    Problem is, per Cryptic's own blogs from earlier in the time war, there's nothing "destined" about it except that time police from one particular variant future have decided that theirs is the "correct" one no matter who it hurts and how much tampering with the timeline was required to create that version of the future.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    If Player behavior is a guide for how the future goes.....future Romulans will venerate D'Tan as the shrewdest Romulan to ever have lived.

    Equal parts luck and skill, but for damn sure D'tan has done a masterful job twirling the Feds and KDF both around his little finger, and all without any overt lies or subterfuge. He has essentially played us to our faces with nothing but the truth.

    If it weren't for the fact he's quite benevolent, D'tan could be a very dangerous man. Romulan passion tempered by Vulcan wisdom... a greater dagger one could never hope for.
  • jiralinriajiralinria Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    Very good story! I never liked J'mpok, but at least in this story one can have a little bit of respect for him. If it is only for not looking entirely like an idiot next to the great Martok, who should be Chancellor. But well... Oh and btw, I liked the small nod to T'Kuvma.
  • philchapphilchap Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    i think j'mppok pick a fight he couldnt win with the federation. but gorowon sorry speeled his name wrong. he started the decline of the empire
  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 670 Arc User
    What a dishonorable petaQ, J'mpok truly belongs in Gre’thor. I hope to witness Martok sending him there, or better yet, do it myself.
  • erendalderendald Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    philchap wrote: »
    i think j'mppok pick a fight he couldnt win with the federation. but gorowon sorry speeled his name wrong. he started the decline of the empire

    Eh, I have to disagree there; the decline of the Empire started well before Gowron was Chancellor. I don't remember the name of the DS9 episode, but Ezri Dax made an excellent point about it to Worf once.
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    I almost laughed at the end of this fictional blurb, as though they were trying to inject a little propaganda symbolism in there.

    Of course, the Klingon Empire had a lot of involvement in the Iconian War. They shouldered the butcher's bill for the other two empires(yes, the Federation is an empire), and were made to look like chumps while doing so. It would make quite a bit of sense if J'mpok isn't quite so keen to throw more of his depleted forces in after that. Especially since he's rightly viewing it as his nation has gotten the raw end of this Galactic Alliance.

    On the other hand The Alliance placed Captain Kagran as the general commander of forces in that war, which turned out to be a huge mistake, like those designers of classic naval Battleships who believed in big decisive naval battles with their big guns wiping out opposing forces, he with his impatience threw an entire allied fleet at an Iconian Sphere and only got back a few people and scrap.

    It's hardly the honorable soldiering on of the Dominion War when the Klingons were the only ones able to rapidly modify their ships to resist the Breen Energy Draining Weapon. It was just bad strategy and unwilling to accept that there would be no victory through direct combat against an obviously superior foe.

    Furthermore J'Mpok's stubbornness is the reason his forces are so depleted he spent half a decade whittling down his own forces against the Federation over the Undine issue. Even if you say he was right since there was Undine infiltration, he still played into the Iconian's hands by not finding another option besides full scale war.

    And whose fault is it that the Klingon economy doesn't have the developed resources for mass ship building?
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    Agreed. If J'mpok is smart, he'll withdraw the Klingon Empire from the Alliance. With how it's bleeding his people dry. And it would be pleasing if he did so with a political hammer's blow.

    Likewise, I do wish they built more on Donatra stuff. I wonder who had the bright idea of having her go from Empress Donatra to all of a sudden Robo-Rommy. Out of nowhere too.

    Withdrawing from the alliance is suicide for a variety of reasons.

    First the current threat, the Hurq don't care whose allied with who, if they fight separately then they'll just work their way down until they can conquer Qo'nos again when the Klingons have no allies left.

    Second, political suicide, as what the Klingons will see is a General reborn who wants to take the battle to legendary enemies, while the Chancellor stays his blade. The exact thing that made Gowron so paranoid towards the end of the Dominion War.
    mikoto8472 wrote: »
    Sure wish Martok had killed J'mpok and taken his rightful place as leader of the Klingon Empire. J'mpok is being a coward, hiding behind the very Federation he once declared war on to prevent the Klingon Empire tearing itself apart from within, like a cowering simpering little babe.

    AGREED!
    starswordc wrote: »
    "Each time we have allied ourselves with the Federation, with the Romulans, the Empire has emerged weaker for it."

    Jm'Pok is in something of a pickle......he almost certainly knows the Klingons are destined to join the Federation, and while he clearly doesn't like that, trying to fight (Manifest) Destiny only makes things worse, kinda like how in the Terminator universe Skynet's every attempt to avert it's ultimate demise at the hands of John Connor merely makes him stronger. Trying to prevent the Federation from Manifesting it's Destiny on them just makes the Feds even stronger relative to them. He can't stop it, and can't walk away either....as the Romulans begin their march through the Federation's agencies, and Starfleet bridges everywhere fill up with sexy Romulan women with SRO. ;)

    If Player behavior is a guide for how the future goes.....future Romulans will venerate D'Tan as the shrewdest Romulan to ever have lived.

    Problem is, per Cryptic's own blogs from earlier in the time war, there's nothing "destined" about it except that time police from one particular variant future have decided that theirs is the "correct" one no matter who it hurts and how much tampering with the timeline was required to create that version of the future.

    The alternative has been shown to either be a timeline edit war that results in the obliteration of the Milky Way via giant temporal anomaly or the galaxy is absorbed into a Tuterian Sphere Builder Expanse. I'd say the timeline where our species don't go extinct is the correct one.


    "Each time we have allied ourselves with the Federation, with the Romulans, the Empire has emerged weaker for it."

    The Federation never tried to stab the Klingons in the back, just curb it's more aggressive impulses.

    It was the Klingons who walked out on the Khitomer Accords. Why? To go to war with Cardassia because they believed the Detapa Council had been infiltrated by Changelings. What happened? The Klingons had been infiltrated by a Changeling who wanted to wipe out Cardassia. Result, a Federation Klingon War that weakened both sides. What happened next? The Cardassians were weakened leading them to ally with the Dominion giving the Dominion a free foothold in the Alpha Quadrant.

    Allied with the Romulans. Well hell, that's taking your life into your own hands.

    Then there's starting another series of wars over the Undine issue, which was just a false flag operation by the Iconians designed to weaken us by infighting. The truth is, the Klingon Empire is their own worst enemy, and always have been. Except maybe in that timeline where they're an agrarian society known for their epic poetry.
    jexsamx wrote: »
    If Player behavior is a guide for how the future goes.....future Romulans will venerate D'Tan as the shrewdest Romulan to ever have lived.

    Equal parts luck and skill, but for damn sure D'tan has done a masterful job twirling the Feds and KDF both around his little finger, and all without any overt lies or subterfuge. He has essentially played us to our faces with nothing but the truth.

    If it weren't for the fact he's quite benevolent, D'tan could be a very dangerous man. Romulan passion tempered by Vulcan wisdom... a greater dagger one could never hope for.

    Spock chose well with the ones he recruited.
    philchap wrote: »
    i think j'mppok pick a fight he couldnt win with the federation. but gorowon sorry speeled his name wrong. he started the decline of the empire
    erendald wrote: »
    philchap wrote: »
    i think j'mppok pick a fight he couldnt win with the federation. but gorowon sorry speeled his name wrong. he started the decline of the empire

    Eh, I have to disagree there; the decline of the Empire started well before Gowron was Chancellor. I don't remember the name of the DS9 episode, but Ezri Dax made an excellent point about it to Worf once.

    "The Klingon Empire is dying, and I think it deserves to die."

    A marquee moment for Ezri, where we saw the knowledge Curzon had interact with someone who didn't share Curzon and later Jadzia's overwhelming affection for the Klingon Empire and generate a new perspective, surely one of the best advantages of the joining process. She was able to see the corruption hid behind words of honor and glory and call it out for what it was. What made it hit so hard was that Worf, and through him we, had gotten to see that corruption operating in real time ever since "Sins of the Father" with the Duras trying to scapegoat him to cover their own tracks and that they had so much political power that the Chancellor himself had to kneel before it.

    Judging by Archer's lawyer though, the Klingon Empire has been in a state of decline since before Enterprise when the warrior caste seized power and made the Klingon Empire revolve around their way of thinking and accomplishments in battle over anything else. The concept that they use war to weed out the weak, cowardly, and dishonorable taking primacy as the only way that gets done is a huge symptom of their problems.

    In the end only one thing needs to be shown. Any civilization that cannot survive without constantly being in a war of expansion is already collapsing. See: Empire, Rome.

    The Klingons are a civilization in need of a revolution.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif
    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    captaind3 wrote: »
    The Klingons are a civilization in need of a revolution.
    I guess joining the Federation counts? :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    captaind3 wrote: »
    The Klingons are a civilization in need of a revolution.
    I guess joining the Federation counts? :p

    Meh. I don't think they'd actually be ready, willing, or able to join the Federation without the Revolution first. The Klingon heart beats strong, but they need more Klingon soul. Something to enrich the tapestry of their civilization besides their proud warrior tradition. I've wanted to see a Klingon Civil War arc for a while where instead of power they were fighting over what it meant to be Klingon. The current decaying warrior society where victories in battle and belligerence are the norm versus the ways of Kolos.

    "We were a great society, not so long ago, when honor was earned through integrity and acts of true courage, not senseless bloodshed."
    Kolos, 2152

    The Klingons don't need the Federation to rediscover that. They need a few brave Klingons with the minds to return to their roots, and the courage and skill to survive long enough to spread the philosophy.

    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif
    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • philchapphilchap Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    captaind3 wrote: »
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    I almost laughed at the end of this fictional blurb, as though they were trying to inject a little propaganda symbolism in there.

    Of course, the Klingon Empire had a lot of involvement in the Iconian War. They shouldered the butcher's bill for the other two empires(yes, the Federation is an empire), and were made to look like chumps while doing so. It would make quite a bit of sense if J'mpok isn't quite so keen to throw more of his depleted forces in after that. Especially since he's rightly viewing it as his nation has gotten the raw end of this Galactic Alliance.

    On the other hand The Alliance placed Captain Kagran as the general commander of forces in that war, which turned out to be a huge mistake, like those designers of classic naval Battleships who believed in big decisive naval battles with their big guns wiping out opposing forces, he with his impatience threw an entire allied fleet at an Iconian Sphere and only got back a few people and scrap.

    It's hardly the honorable soldiering on of the Dominion War when the Klingons were the only ones able to rapidly modify their ships to resist the Breen Energy Draining Weapon. It was just bad strategy and unwilling to accept that there would be no victory through direct combat against an obviously superior foe.

    Furthermore J'Mpok's stubbornness is the reason his forces are so depleted he spent half a decade whittling down his own forces against the Federation over the Undine issue. Even if you say he was right since there was Undine infiltration, he still played into the Iconian's hands by not finding another option besides full scale war.

    And whose fault is it that the Klingon economy doesn't have the developed resources for mass ship building?
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    Agreed. If J'mpok is smart, he'll withdraw the Klingon Empire from the Alliance. With how it's bleeding his people dry. And it would be pleasing if he did so with a political hammer's blow.

    Likewise, I do wish they built more on Donatra stuff. I wonder who had the bright idea of having her go from Empress Donatra to all of a sudden Robo-Rommy. Out of nowhere too.

    Withdrawing from the alliance is suicide for a variety of reasons.

    First the current threat, the Hurq don't care whose allied with who, if they fight separately then they'll just work their way down until they can conquer Qo'nos again when the Klingons have no allies left.

    Second, political suicide, as what the Klingons will see is a General reborn who wants to take the battle to legendary enemies, while the Chancellor stays his blade. The exact thing that made Gowron so paranoid towards the end of the Dominion War.
    mikoto8472 wrote: »
    Sure wish Martok had killed J'mpok and taken his rightful place as leader of the Klingon Empire. J'mpok is being a coward, hiding behind the very Federation he once declared war on to prevent the Klingon Empire tearing itself apart from within, like a cowering simpering little babe.

    AGREED!
    starswordc wrote: »
    "Each time we have allied ourselves with the Federation, with the Romulans, the Empire has emerged weaker for it."

    Jm'Pok is in something of a pickle......he almost certainly knows the Klingons are destined to join the Federation, and while he clearly doesn't like that, trying to fight (Manifest) Destiny only makes things worse, kinda like how in the Terminator universe Skynet's every attempt to avert it's ultimate demise at the hands of John Connor merely makes him stronger. Trying to prevent the Federation from Manifesting it's Destiny on them just makes the Feds even stronger relative to them. He can't stop it, and can't walk away either....as the Romulans begin their march through the Federation's agencies, and Starfleet bridges everywhere fill up with sexy Romulan women with SRO. ;)

    If Player behavior is a guide for how the future goes.....future Romulans will venerate D'Tan as the shrewdest Romulan to ever have lived.

    Problem is, per Cryptic's own blogs from earlier in the time war, there's nothing "destined" about it except that time police from one particular variant future have decided that theirs is the "correct" one no matter who it hurts and how much tampering with the timeline was required to create that version of the future.

    The alternative has been shown to either be a timeline edit war that results in the obliteration of the Milky Way via giant temporal anomaly or the galaxy is absorbed into a Tuterian Sphere Builder Expanse. I'd say the timeline where our species don't go extinct is the correct one.


    "Each time we have allied ourselves with the Federation, with the Romulans, the Empire has emerged weaker for it."

    The Federation never tried to stab the Klingons in the back, just curb it's more aggressive impulses.

    It was the Klingons who walked out on the Khitomer Accords. Why? To go to war with Cardassia because they believed the Detapa Council had been infiltrated by Changelings. What happened? The Klingons had been infiltrated by a Changeling who wanted to wipe out Cardassia. Result, a Federation Klingon War that weakened both sides. What happened next? The Cardassians were weakened leading them to ally with the Dominion giving the Dominion a free foothold in the Alpha Quadrant.

    Allied with the Romulans. Well hell, that's taking your life into your own hands.

    Then there's starting another series of wars over the Undine issue, which was just a false flag operation by the Iconians designed to weaken us by infighting. The truth is, the Klingon Empire is their own worst enemy, and always have been. Except maybe in that timeline where they're an agrarian society known for their epic poetry.
    jexsamx wrote: »
    If Player behavior is a guide for how the future goes.....future Romulans will venerate D'Tan as the shrewdest Romulan to ever have lived.

    Equal parts luck and skill, but for damn sure D'tan has done a masterful job twirling the Feds and KDF both around his little finger, and all without any overt lies or subterfuge. He has essentially played us to our faces with nothing but the truth.

    If it weren't for the fact he's quite benevolent, D'tan could be a very dangerous man. Romulan passion tempered by Vulcan wisdom... a greater dagger one could never hope for.

    Spock chose well with the ones he recruited.
    philchap wrote: »
    i think j'mppok pick a fight he couldnt win with the federation. but gorowon sorry speeled his name wrong. he started the decline of the empire
    erendald wrote: »
    philchap wrote: »
    i think j'mppok pick a fight he couldnt win with the federation. but gorowon sorry speeled his name wrong. he started the decline of the empire

    Eh, I have to disagree there; the decline of the Empire started well before Gowron was Chancellor. I don't remember the name of the DS9 episode, but Ezri Dax made an excellent point about it to Worf once.

    "The Klingon Empire is dying, and I think it deserves to die."

    A marquee moment for Ezri, where we saw the knowledge Curzon had interact with someone who didn't share Curzon and later Jadzia's overwhelming affection for the Klingon Empire and generate a new perspective, surely one of the best advantages of the joining process. She was able to see the corruption hid behind words of honor and glory and call it out for what it was. What made it hit so hard was that Worf, and through him we, had gotten to see that corruption operating in real time ever since "Sins of the Father" with the Duras trying to scapegoat him to cover their own tracks and that they had so much political power that the Chancellor himself had to kneel before it.

    Judging by Archer's lawyer though, the Klingon Empire has been in a state of decline since before Enterprise when the warrior caste seized power and made the Klingon Empire revolve around their way of thinking and accomplishments in battle over anything else. The concept that they use war to weed out the weak, cowardly, and dishonorable taking primacy as the only way that gets done is a huge symptom of their problems.

    In the end only one thing needs to be shown. Any civilization that cannot survive without constantly being in a war of expansion is already collapsing. See: Empire, Rome.

    The Klingons are a civilization in need of a revolution.

    i see Martok leading it. and i think we are going to see it. after victory is life. side note i wish we were getting a Dax appearance
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    philchap wrote: »

    i see Martok leading it. and i think we are going to see it. after victory is life. side note i wish we were getting a Dax appearance

    True True.

    Martok has got it. He's a warrior yes, but he's come up from the bottom and could understand a new way. It would probably take someone younger, someone hungrier, someone who couldn't make it as a warrior, but has contributed as a scientist or some other way. Someone who's contribution wasn't recognized. But someone with the guts to make Martok himself see what the future needs. Or a warrior who has seen the worst of war and realizes there has to be a better way. Martok has the heart and is open minded enough, but he's an old soldier and believes in those warrior's ways. We need a Klingon equivalent to D'Tan. The best candidate though of the current crop is probably Worf, since we lost Alexander. Ja'rod might be an unlikely candidate as well.

    As for in game...I certainly hope so.

    And Nicole Deboer dropping in, in command of the Aventine would be choice.
    Post edited by captaind3 on
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    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    vorwoda wrote: »
    dirlettia wrote: »
    Ooh T'kuvma, was he in original Trek lore or is that a nod to Discovery?

    Edit: A nice overall description of why the new episodes are going to be Federation centered with the KDF being only represented in a small way.

    It's a nod to Discovery. He's not in "original Trek lore". TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, ENT? Not a word.

    On topic: Nice story! If J'mpok does break the Alliance, at least one good thing will have come from his reign. But I can't wait till Martok finally kills J'mpok, and returns glory to the Empire!

    Alas, that will probably happen about the time when Donatra is liberated from the Borg, kills Sela, and restores the Romulan Star Empire to glory. In other words, never.

    Agreed. If J'mpok is smart, he'll withdraw the Klingon Empire from the Alliance. With how it's bleeding his people dry. And it would be pleasing if he did so with a political hammer's blow.

    That's basically what the Romulans tried to do during the Dominion War.

    Sure, the Klingons can withdraw from the Alliance. Maybe it'll buy them some time while the Romulan Republic and the Federation do the honorable thing and lose from the shared threats - I guess J'mpok would reach his goal to see the empire survive to some extent then. But only for a limited time of course.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,762 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    tasshena wrote: »
    can we just forget about discovery already? those are not klingons. t'kuvma has no place here... whats next? wookies?

    Well we can't really. If CBS/Paramount is involved in its creation. Its as canon as Deep Space Nine.

    Also, Gene's son, Eugene Wesley "Rod" Roddenberry Jr. is an Executive Producer on Discovery.

    Some where along the way CBS decided to keep it in the family to make it officialdom.
    https://imdb.com/name/nm0734473/

    Is he an active exec? Or is he an "executive producer" like Roddenberry Sr. was in 3rd season, where he was listed as one but withdrew from actively managing anything in favor of Fred Freiberger, knowing the show was being killed with the time slot change?

    CBS might have put him on as an 'in name only' executive producer and tossed a little cash his way in hopes of getting the Trek fandom to 'shut up and accept it'. :p

    That all depends on who you talk to. Takei thinks it's taking Star Trek back to it's roots.
    comicbook.com/startrek/2017/11/26/george-takei-star-trek-discovery/

    And I believe these are Rod's own words in this article.
    deadline.com/2016/03/star-trek-rod-roddenberry-trevor-roth-join-cbs-digital-series-as-eps-1201713922/

    Personally, I think Star Trek does a better job going forward ( 24th and now the 25th century ) than going backward ( prequels ).
    Post edited by zedbrightlander1 on
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    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
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