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Star Trek Beyond and Star Trek Online Emergence Connection?
ryuranger
Member Posts: 520 Arc User
in Ten Forward
Hay I been re-watching Star Trek Beyond and I think the abandon tech that the Crew of the Franklin found was Her'c and the Drones as well I am unsure through but after playing the latest Episode of Star Trek Online Emergence: Scylla and Charybdis the Way that The Drones acted are vary semaller in Nature to the Drones in Star Trek Beyond now this can make a GREAT Crossover Episode with Kirk and Company for a Star Trek Online Feature what you guys think
May the Shwartz Be With You
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Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Depends on if the Kelvin Universe was originally a parallel universe or it was created in 2233 due to Nero destroying the USS Kelvin. Personally, I believe in the Parallel Universe theory due to the energy requirements to create a new universe every time a some massive temporal change occurs. If some change happens in a parallel universe, then it doesn't matter and the creators of the new Star Trek movies have more creative control.
If the Kelvin Universe is a parallel universe, then there could be a ton of difference between the STO universe and Kelvin Universe preceding 2233. If the Kelvin Universe was created from the Prime Universe, then the Kelvin Universe has to take the canon introduced by Enterprise and various events that preceded 2233 like the Iconians and Preservers.
However, the connection between the STO Universe and Kelvin Universe has already been taken into account in the Terminal Expanse mission. Daniels says, "In 2387, an incident created a quantum rift between our universe and this one.....This incident caused their timeline to differ from ours - as a result, we now refer to it as the Kelvin Timeline." Whether there is a Kelvin Universe and a Kelvin-STO Universe is not known, but even if the Kelvin Universe and Kelvin-STO Universe are different, then it is likely that the events in Star Trek Beyond happened in the Kelvin-STO Universe. Still doesn't prove that the technology in Star Trek Beyond is not in the STO Universe, just that it is likely that it is in the Kelvin-STO Universe.
Well the 'Kelvin Universe' dosn't exist that's just something you keep inventing. There's only the Kelvin Timeline and that started after Nero and Spock emerged in 2233. That's the timeline the KT films are set in. Unlike the former, the latter was made up by Paramount and thus your musings on it (or your ash can copy thereof) are mostly irrelevant. In film dialogue from a known expert of Time Travel confirms the point of divergence is 2233 not whatever you wish to pull from your nethers again.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Though there's nothing to say the KT crews won't visit the Guardian of Forever, rescue the whales, or any of the other time travel stuff the PT crews did. Especially considering there's some serendipity between alternate timelines and universes anyway (the KT Ent crew all meting up, the whole Ent D crew ending up on the Ent D in YE, the Terran uniforms always mirroring the Prime uniforms etc.).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The term Kelvin Universe makes no assumption whether it is a parallel universe or the creation of a branched timeline while the term Kelvin Timeline makes that assumption. Whether it is a parallel universe or a branched timeline, then it is its own unique universe. There is nothing in Star Trek 2009 that indicates it one way or the other. All way know is Spock and Nero traveled through a black hole in the 24th Century and ended up in a place that looked like their 23rd Century. So they could have traveled to a parallel universe or they could have traveled to the past. Discovery used quantum signatures to show that Burnham was from a parallel universe and something similar would need to be done to confirm that Spock and Nero didn't travel to a parallel universe. Canon is established by what is shown on the screen and not what is said in an interview.
The Parallels episode showed that there are countless extremely similar parallel universes in the Star Trek Multiverse. So some of the parallel universes might be in the 23rd Century and others in the 25th Century and only the parallel universe that had the same time as the Prime Universe were shown in the Parallels episode. So it is just as likely that Nero traveled from 2387 in the Prime Universe to a parallel universe that looked like the Prime Universe's version of 2233.
The point of divergence in 2233 doesn't require time travel just an outside force messing up the intended future. If Nero never destroyed the U.S.S. Kelvin, then the chain of events for the next 100 years would have likely resulted in a universe that we are familiar with in TNG, DS9, and Voyager. With Nero destroying the USS Kelvin, then the chain of events would result in a completely new future.
The so called evidence in Star Trek 2009 is not evidence since there is no way to determine whether Nero came from their future or a parallel universe's future without scanning for a quantum signature. As far as the Enterprise's crew is concerned, Nero came from a place that looks like their future. If the quantum signatures are identical, then Spock and Nero traveled back in time. If the quantum signatures are different, then Spock and Nero traveled to a parallel universe. Until such a test is conducted or an individual like Q or Daniels reveals it, then I will always call it the Kelvin Universe not the Kelvin Timeline due to there being no canonical evidence of it being a branched timeline or parallel universe.
Parallel universes that look like the future and the past are a way to have 'time travel' in SF literature that doesn't support the paradoxes associated with time travel. Any time travel paradox is meaningless since if I go to a parallel universe and kill the parallel universe version of my grandfather in 1930, then I would still exist since I didn't kill my grandfather, but there would be no version of me in that parallel universe.
Since Star Trek supports both parallel universes and time travel, then without scanning for a quantum signature, there is no way to know if they are still in the same universe. It applies for every instance of time travel. Is the Kirk, Spock, and Bones that exited the Guardian of Forever, the same that entered it? Is the Enterprise crew that went to get some whales, the same that got the whales? Is the Enterprise crew that went back in time to stop the Borg from assimilating the 21st Century, the same that returned? Without a quantum signature, then how can we know?
True, but that doesn't mean they'll all handle the situations the exact same way, so some small differences are likely to result.
Besides, Vulcan was destroyed, so many of the Vulcans in the future probably won't exist. If there's no Tuvok, how does Voyager fare during the events of Future's End? Something is bound to be changed in the past, before the Narada arrived.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
CBs and Paramount officially named it the Kelvin Timeline. Not Universe. So it is canon.
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
Considering how much the Kelvin Universe has changed, I wouldn't be surprised if there is no Picard, Sisko, or Janeway. The parallel universes in the Parallels episode having the same crews made sense since they were almost identical except for a few differences. However, having a Mirror Universe crew with the exact same people as the original is extremely unrealistic. Would be interesting to see the scientific explanation required to create universes with the same groups of people without using some omnipotent outside force controlling our actions. A deterministic universe could work since the same initial conditions should be able to create identical universes. Therefore in every universe where I exist, I will type this post and every universe where I don't exist had different initial conditions.
In the Kelvin Universe, every incident of time travel will be wiped clean and replaced with future incidents of time travel. If the Starfleet of the Kelvin Universe could stop the probe in Star Trek 4 and stop the Borg from travelling back in time, then there is no need for time travel in those incidents.
The timeline splits at 2233. Exactly like in Yesterdays Enterprise where it changed only when the Enterprise C's future changed. That's CBS' position, that's Spock's assessment.
CBS themselves have made the judgement that their IP deals with an alternate timeline not universe. They themselves have made that distinction. Feel free to continue to flop impotently against the canon of the films themselves if you wish but 'fingers in your ears lalalala not listening' is not a valid argument against the literal owners of the franchise.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
And I have never said it was a universe, my whole argument is based around the fact that there is no canonical evidence whether it is a branched timeline or a parallel universe. Canon is only determined by what is shown on the screen not by what is said in an interview. You believe the Kelvin Universe is a branched timeline while I have no idea about what it is. It could be a branched timeline or a parallel universe. If the literal owners of the franchise wants to make the Kelvin Universe is a branched timeline into canon, then it needs to be on the screen.
Bob Orci in 2008 was using the Parallels episode a lot to explain Star Trek 2009. He even stated that "And say in the case of "Star Trek IV," it could go either way. They cross over to a parallel universe and grab some whales and bring them back and save their own universe." However, he then says this, "I would argue that, yes, any time there is time travel that they created a parallel universe, if they want to conform to our most current and advanced thinking on the matter, which is quantum mechanics." I would be fine with every incident of time travel in Star Trek is actually an incident of travelling to a parallel universe since "all possibilities that can happen do happen" in a parallel universe provided that there are an infinite number of parallel universes. So there are an infinite number of universes where it is the 23rd Century, an infinite number of universes where it is the 20th Century, an infinite number of universes where it is the 29th Century, and an infinite number of universes where it is the 31st Century.
However, I have an issue with creating a new parallel universe with every instance of time travel due to where does the energy come from to create new parallel universes and Orci claiming that the prime timeline that Nero left is the same as the timeline right before the USS Kelvin was destroyed and a few questions later he makes his statement about Star Trek 4 happening in a parallel universe when everyone believed it to be time travel. Then there is all the claims about 'if we are going to do our Star Trek, it has to conform to the latest scientific theories and the most advanced and complete, and right now that is quantum mechanics.'" If Star Trek 2009 is using the Many Worlds Interpretation, then it removes the need for time travel in Star Trek since every instance of time travel can happen in a parallel universe. Star Trek 4 had Kirk travel to a parallel universe that looked like 80s. First Contact had Picard travel to a parallel universe that looked like the mid 21st Century. Setting the new Star Trek movies in a parallel universe instead of a branched timeline is just easier since any discrepancies from before 2233 can be easily explained by it is a parallel universe so not everything is identical.
If that doesn't scream "timeline", then I don't know what does.
As for the temporal events before the Narada arrived, we could just agree that the Kelvin timeline actually does share an identical history with the prime timeline, and that all the time travel we know of occurring before the Narada showed up was still carried out by the prime timeline, with their unknowingly saving the alternate timeline as well. In effect, there wouldn't be a "prime" or "alternate" timeline before the Narada; just a common history that probably contains some weird mess of temporal events from both futures.
As for suggesting every instance of time travel takes the time travelers to another universe; if they did, why would there by a division of Starfleet in the future dedicated to preserving the timeline, if none of the time traveling matters anyway? Did the Federation just become so powerful that it got bored and decided to start fighting people over alternate universes?
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
It'd be very well possible Voyager would never go on the mission to track that Maquis-vessel and never strand in the DQ, considering Tuvok was pretty much the whole reason why the ship went into the badlands that day.
And well... the Hur'q are most definately not related to the technology of Altamid, as I don't think Altamid is in the Gamma Quadrant.
There's also another Star Trek-game where the Hur'q (and their pre-decessor race) are the primary villain. It's the PSX-game 'Star Trek: Invasion'.
You're getting confused because you're not reading. The official name of the film series is the Kelvin timeline. You cannot escape that. Pretending it's called the 'Kelvin Universe' is just plain, flat out wrong full stop.
On a unrelated note, the canon evidence for an alternate timeline over a universe comes from Spock himself...
"Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party."
"An alternate reality?"
"Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed."
This situation is identical to Yesterdays Enterprise (well with the exception it's a ship being destroyed not saved).
The first situation is your blind-stupid refusal to accept the official name of the series so you can file that with your Deep Space Six.
The second is that you keep throwing entirely useless ramblings about conservation of mass/energy around as though 1)Star Trek wasn't Science Fiction and 2)Yesterdays Enterprise didn't exist.
The film series has a official name and the timeline setting itself has a canon explanation. You have no sane arguments left.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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How does "if we are going to do our Star Trek, it has to conform to the latest scientific theories and the most advanced and complete, and right now that is quantum mechanics" not require conservation of mass and energy? If Bob Orci is going to use quantum mechanics to explain Star Trek 2009, then it is necessary to include conservation of mass and energy in quantum mechanics. Parallel universes and the timeline changing don't violate conservation of mass and energy while creating an entirely new timeline that exists in parallel to the old one does require explanation about where the additional energy comes from.
Spock doesn't prove the alternate timeline with that conversation. The alternate realities shown in the Parallel episodes had the same flow of history as the Prime Universe except for a few minor changes. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been shown in the episode. So it is entirely possible that the Kelvin Universe originally had the same flow of history as the Prime Universe and some interdimensional traveler that came from a parallel universe that looked like their 24th Century changed it resulting in a completely new flow of history. There is no way for Spock to prove that Nero came from about 100 years in the future or Nero came from a parallel universe that appears to be 100 years in their future. If I use a highly advanced device that I don't understand how it works and end up in a place that looks like the 19th Century and has no noticeable differences, then it is not possible for me to determine if I actually traveled back in time or if I traveled to a parallel universe that looks like the 19th Century.
Parallel universes being a form of time travel is used in Michael Crichton's Timeline novel where a group of students travel to a parallel universe that looks like 14th Century France. So it is entirely possible that Star Trek 2009 used the same premise. If the Many World Interpretation is used to explain time travel in Star Trek 2009, then there are an infinite number of universes that aren't in the 21st Century. There is nothing in the Many Worlds Interpretation about creating completely new timelines that are parallel to the original timeline. Data briefly explained the Many Worlds Interpretation by saying "But there is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities." Alternate quantum realities could mean alternate timelines, alternate realities, or parallel universes. Since Star Trek uses the Many Worlds Interpretation and time travel, then there is no way to know if Spock and Nero traveled back in time or traveled to a parallel universe.
Then you have Bob Orci saying "And say in the case of "Star Trek IV," it could go either way. They cross over to a parallel universe and grab some whales and bring them back and save their own universe" and him agreeing to the interviewer's remarks that "OK so let’s call the timeline Nero left, as ‘the prime timeline’, so that means that the USS Kelvin, as designed and seen in the trailer, that is also in the prime timeline?" There are three instances of where parallel universe is used by Bob and only two instances where timeline is used by Bob while the rest are used by the interviewer. " If we take Data’s description of the most current and awesome scientific theory to heart, then there is no prime timeline. If everything that can happen, does happen, who is to say what the right timeline is."
I don't like accepting interviews as canon since it is far easier to be inconsistent in interviews compared to a press release. People can go back and change what they wrote to make it more consistent before releasing it while an interview requires the interviewee to answer questions immediately without giving enough time to properly answer the question. If it is on the screen, then each word should been carefully revised before releasing it to the public which reduces the amount of mistakes.
'Cold fusion'. What he's doing is called spin. The films do not follow real world science.
What is this 'Kelvin Universe'? Please provide the timestamp of the exact film or episode this term appears in.
Entirely possible and not true. It's an alternate timeline, both canon-wise and officially.
Whether you like accepting them or not is irrelevant. They are always non-canon. Only material directly seen or referenced in the films or TV series are canon. Spock's statement is the canon final word on the matter unless the next film comes up with a retcon.
You're confusing canon with official but it still doesn't matter here as both the canon and official stance is still... Oh, sod it, this is an ouroboros isn't it. I'm stuck in a timeloop here. You're wearing an Andorian helmet and running around the ship blowing up space bugs and shooting the crew over and over again aren't you?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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What is this 'Kelvin Timeline'? Please provide the timestamp of the exact film or episode this term appears in.
Spock's statement is extremely lousy evidence to be the canon final word on the matter. There is no way for Spock to know if Nero and the other Spock are from the future or from a parallel universe that looks like the future. The quantum signature scan is the official Star Trek method to figure out whether someone is from a parallel universe or not.
All that matters is canon. The official stance can easily change depending on a whim while canon requires a lousy retcon.
It took you this long to figure it out? I thought you would have figured it out years ago.
Trying to argue about quantum mechanics and MWI in an Einsteinian framework makes about as much sense as trying to explain the Lorentz transformation in terms of Newtonian physics and Euclidean geometry.
It's the name of the film series, why would it appear in the films?
The gods alone know what this 'Kelvin Universe' term you throwing around means.
Nah, I'm going to have to take the word of a guy who can do Time Warp computations in his head over you any day.
No, both matter because they're two separate issue you're conflating.
And no doubt I will all over again.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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When you change the past, you change the future. The future starts now. Or then. Yeah, just then, it was now.
Which is how time travel always worked in Star Trek before Star Trek 2009. If Star Trek 2009 worked by the usual rules, then the Star Trek we know and love ceased to exist when Nero destroyed the USS Kelvin. If the creators of Star Trek 2009 want to protect the previous Star Trek series, then they have to get creative. STO excessively uses the classic rules of time travel for its Iconian and Temporal arcs.