One wonders why, if the Klingons were a star-traveling species as early as the 1700s on our calendar and Qo'noS was only five days from Earth at warp 5, we hadn't become a satrapy of the Klingon Empire around the time of the American Revolution.
According to the Star Trek Star charts, the Klingons obtained warp travel in the year 930AD. By the time of TNG, they had been warp capable for 1,434 years before TNG began.
That's even worse! 1300 years between Klingons getting starflight and first contact via Klang in Oklahoma (ENT: "Broken Bow"), and in all that time they never happened upon a technological civilization a mere five days away at warp 5? Are we assuming the Klingons of old were on about the same intellectual level as the Kazon?
Guinan claims they've been around for "thousands of centuries", which would mean they were active when the Iconians were wiped out.
Technically, Guinan states the things that make up the Borg, aka the technology, is thousands of centuries old.
The Borg themselves have only been around for around 900-1000 years. As stated in Voyager episode "Dragon's Teeth". The Vaadwaur points out Seven of Nine is a Borg, and Seven acts surprised that he knows what she is given how long he has been asleep. The Vaadwaur mentions their races encountered each other, but Seven mentions the Borg's knowledge of 900 years past is highly fragmentary. He notes that in his time the org were only a minor nuisance, that had only assimilated a handful of systems, and no one really considered them a problem.
This would make sense as the Borg share all knowledge among the collective, so to cause fragmentary data to the Borg, one has to kill A LOT of drones, which would fit with the Borg's first arrival into space, in an environment where they weren't the big bads, and were getting stomped around by the races around them.
Given she mentioned they had been evolving into their current form over those thousands of centuries, it's just as likely that the Collective was already a power but the Vaadwaur didn't know the full size of the Collective simply because they believed there was nothing of value to justify expanding into the area (which would fit with their well-known habit of ignoring anything that doesn't interest them).
The original race that became the Borg were probably long extinct before civilization even emerged on the Vaadwaur homeworld.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Its possible that because of the Vulcans, the Klingons didn't expand in the direction of Earth. And then there's also the Andorians, who had been in conflict off and on with the Vulcans. Essentially Earth was unintentionally shielded by the Vulcans.
I believe Sol System was also considered to be in a backwater region of no strategic importance. Hence why some races were like "where?" when it was brought up in the first season of Enterprise.
I believe Sol System was also considered to be in a backwater region of no strategic importance. Hence why some races were like "where?" when it was brought up in the first season of Enterprise.
To which Archer promptly gave them the coordinates and told them we leave the spare key under a mountain and that we're all off-world for several days every second month.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
One wonders why, if the Klingons were a star-traveling species as early as the 1700s on our calendar and Qo'noS was only five days from Earth at warp 5, we hadn't become a satrapy of the Klingon Empire around the time of the American Revolution.
According to the Star Trek Star charts, the Klingons obtained warp travel in the year 930AD. By the time of TNG, they had been warp capable for 1,434 years before TNG began.
That's even worse! 1300 years between Klingons getting starflight and first contact via Klang in Oklahoma (ENT: "Broken Bow"), and in all that time they never happened upon a technological civilization a mere five days away at warp 5? Are we assuming the Klingons of old were on about the same intellectual level as the Kazon?
a bit of conflict around the whole Vulcan and Klingon warp drive thing, two ferengi's; Quark and Soval, both of them mention that Vulcans and Klingons didn't have warp drive until some point in the 1950's but it was possible that Klingons had a different form of propulsion before this, it might even be possible they were operating on some form of advanced impulse drive and spent centuries getting from Qo'Nos to Boreth to setup a monastery there in order to honor Kahless after his death, they could of used a form of stasis pods or a generational ship with only the body of kahless in stasis and the generations of klingons afterwards left to complete their duties and only after Klingon ships got warp drive did the news spread of Kahless a thousand years later.
Its possible that because of the Vulcans, the Klingons didn't expand in the direction of Earth. And then there's also the Andorians, who had been in conflict off and on with the Vulcans. Essentially Earth was unintentionally shielded by the Vulcans.
I believe Sol System was also considered to be in a backwater region of no strategic importance. Hence why some races were like "where?" when it was brought up in the first season of Enterprise.
Remember something, it was stated by the ENT-E crew that Vulcans had little to no interest in species that have yet to develop enough because of their non-interference policy during that time. Vulcans were also known to be aggressive towards Klingon patrols after first contact negoitations became violent from what Sarek mentioned to Burnham, in addition the Vulcans learned it was better to destroy them than defeat Klingons because it would assure them a a place in the klingon afterlife in honorable battle as one of the Vulcans said before Archer and T'Pol outside the operating room with Klang inside.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Remember something, it was stated by the ENT-E crew that Vulcans had little to no interest in species that have yet to develop enough because of their non-interference policy during that time.
True, but the point I was making was that the Vulcans were in the area. It wasn't intenionally protecting the humans. Its just that the Vulcans were in the way, and as you said, aggressive in their approach with the Klingons.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
True... but again... that is some serious velocity we're talking about. I can understand it not taking long at all for a ship to get from Earth to the Moon by impulse, but shockwave blasts? While what you say does make sense... there is still the distance the Enterprise had to travel. Guess the only hole left in that besides the lack of response from any Sol Defense assets (because we literally had a full on shooting war between two starships) is how fast was Enterprise going because of the barrage?
If we consider it takes... what... a few days or something at least for an Apollo module to get from Earth to the Moon... we'd have to multiply that by a rather large margine to cut that down from days to minutes.
One wonders why, if the Klingons were a star-traveling species as early as the 1700s on our calendar and Qo'noS was only five days from Earth at warp 5, we hadn't become a satrapy of the Klingon Empire around the time of the American Revolution.
According to the Star Trek Star charts, the Klingons obtained warp travel in the year 930AD. By the time of TNG, they had been warp capable for 1,434 years before TNG began.
That's even worse! 1300 years between Klingons getting starflight and first contact via Klang in Oklahoma (ENT: "Broken Bow"), and in all that time they never happened upon a technological civilization a mere five days away at warp 5? Are we assuming the Klingons of old were on about the same intellectual level as the Kazon?
A likely explanation would be the technological capabilities of the neighborhood. After all, neccessity is the mother of invention. If the competition does not have anything even worth the effort to rapidly develop your tech then what is the incentive to innovate that much anyway. Other explanations for the level of tech could include cultural factors. Vulcan's are typically more puritanical then totally logical and this adherence to only what is known could have stagnated their technological and cultural growth. Remember that by the time of ST:E they had completely written off temporal mechanics as a pseudo-science and the Andorians, even considering their later start compared to the Vulcans, developed tech to challenge them in minor skirmishes in a much shorter timeframe. The Klingons however were still the most technologically advanced kids on the block at the time of Enterprise and did not have anyone in the neighborhood to challenge them. Also consider the incredible rate of production for military grade hardware and the sophisticate infustructure requirements involved in maintaining their status as sole galactic superpower. This also coming from a race that was conqured and ransacked by the Hur'Q and even managed to rise up and beat them. I'd say that all-in-all the Klingons were doin' pretty good for themselves. I also refer to other commenters mentioning that Earth was in an uninteresting backwater but would also like to add that Klingons were on somewhat friendly terms with the Vulcans and respected them due to what I guess we are now refering to as the "Vulcan Handshake". Recall that in the Enterprise pilot episode that the Empire specifically requested that the Vulcans expedite the return of Klang's body. I assume, based on this evidence that the Vulcans had some diplomatic swing over the Klingons and were able to convince them to not expand in that region. I honestly don't see any other explanation for how the Vulcans also didn't get outright conqured by the superior military might of the Empire as well.
We can also invoke societal factors: the Klingons have a long history of falling into internal conflicts if there isn't a handy foreign enemy (and often even then), and civil strife tends to hold back technological development rather than advance it. It's also worth noting that the Klingons tend to disdain their scientists and engineers in favor of warriors, meaning less resource allocation to the pure research that produces major technological advancements.
You're also forgetting about the Romulans, who had comparable power and are traditional rivals of the Klingons. The Empire would've had to keep significant forces at home to keep the Rihannsu from getting grabby, meaning less to devote to conquering second- and third-tier powers like Vulcan and the Andorian Empire. And both those polities, plus Tellar, are between the Klingon Empire and Sol. You might look for a comparison in the stated relationship between the Imperium of Man and the Tau Empire over in Warhammer 40,000. Man for man and ship for ship, the tau are at least as good at fighting as the humans (and are advancing their technology faster), but the Imperium has overwhelming numerical superiority. Why, then, does the Imperium not wipe out the tau? Because they know that the tau wouldn't make it easy for them: any such campaign would likely be a Pyrrhic victory, because they'd have to reallocate forces from elsewhere in the Imperium that are busy trying to keep all their other enemies contained. Whereas if they maintain the status quo, they can at least contain the tau locally and even form alliances with them against mutual enemies such as the tyranid Hive Fleet Kraken.
EDIT: Oh for Prophets' sakes, forum censor, "r*tard" is a verb, not just a noun. *massive eye roll*
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Exceptionalism asside... humans do tend to take more risks than Vulcans. Where a Vulcan would scrap a design and go back to the drawing board if something doesn't work perfectly, humans will take a chance and experiment.
For example, when Starfleet was experimenting with the Warp 5 engine, when they hit a roadblock the Vulcans insisted they scrap the whole design and try again. Yet... all it took was messing with the intermix ratio to get the design to work. Something the Vulcans wouldn't have done.
a good portion of why it took vulcans so long in those two instances can likely be attributed to the Curse of Longevity (i have no idea if this is a trope and has an official trope name...someone tell me if it does) - namely, that species which are significantly longer-lived than humans usually always tend to take a proportional amount of time LONGER to do anything compared to a human
the ents from LOTR being a good example - essentially immortal for all intents and purposes, it takes them an hour just to say 'Good morning'
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
a good portion of why it took vulcans so long in those two instances can likely be attributed to the Curse of Longevity (i have no idea if this is a trope and has an official trope name...someone tell me if it does) - namely, that species which are significantly longer-lived than humans usually always tend to take a proportional amount of time LONGER to do anything compared to a human
the ents from LOTR being a good example - essentially immortal for all intents and purposes, it takes them an hour just to say 'Good morning'
I don't know if it's a trope or not but it certainly makes sense. If you don't have much time you try to squeeze as much in as you can.
I would also say that with shorter life spans comes more generations. It didn't seem as if Vulcans had kids any faster or in higher numbers then humans. So 1 person that lives 200 or so years has 1 or 2 kids. By the time Vulcans are grand parents humans are on 6 or 7th generation. Lots more minds so lots more chances for new ideas and discoveries. We all tend to get set in our ways and follow a pattern of similar thoughts and ideas. 1 person living 200 years is just not going to think of as much of a variety of different stuff as as 6 or 7 people spread over the same time frame would.
Post edited by bwleon7 on
Dr. Miranda Jones: I understand, Mr. Spock. The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity.
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
My point had nothing to do with rates of technological advancement, but rather how ludicrous I found the claim that Qon'oS was a week from Earth at warp 5. It's even worse if the Romulan Star Empire is supposed to fit between the two as well! Are these "starfaring" species getting around by space bicycle or something?
It would be like expecting the sailors of ancient Greece to never have visited the shores of northern Africa in their explorations. It's basically right next door, for crying out loud!
And that, boys and girls, is one reason why I don't worry overmuch about "canon" in Trek. (That, and I grew up on TOS, back when "continuity" in episodic TV basically meant everyone had the same names and faces from one episode to the next.)
Oh, as an aside, Apollo 11 took about two and a half days to cross from Luna to Earth, after an initial burn giving the capsule a speed of about 3600 mph (5850 kph). It took a tad over twelve hours for it to reach the point at which Earth's gravity affected it more than Luna's, about 38,900 miles from Luna and about 200,000 from Earth.
"Falling" from Lunar orbit to Earth's surface in less than an hour is even more ludicrous than Earth's remaining undiscovered by an aggressively expansionistic, territorial species living a week away.
> @jonsills said: > Oh, as an aside, Apollo 11 took about two and a half days to cross from Luna to Earth, after an initial burn giving the capsule a speed of about 3600 mph (5850 kph). It took a tad over twelve hours for it to reach the point at which Earth's gravity affected it more than Luna's, about 38,900 miles from Luna and about 200,000 from Earth. > > "Falling" from Lunar orbit to Earth's surface in less than an hour is even more ludicrous than Earth's remaining undiscovered by an aggressively expansionistic, territorial species living a week away.
This. What happened in STID isn't a COMPLETE physical impossibility, unlike the nonsense with the supernova in the previous film, but still requires the Enterprise and Vengeance to have traveled from Luna to Earth at a measurable fraction of the speed of light. The Moon is 385192 km from Earth. Using round numbers for simplicity, to travel that distance in an hour requires the ships to be traveling at 385192 km/h, about half the rotational velocity of the Sol system around the core of the Milky Way.
Forget saving the Enterprise or managing a controlled crash in Vengeance: the ships would pass through Earth's atmosphere in less than two seconds and impact with sufficient force to wipe out all life on the planet.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
As for the supernova... it doesn't make sense if it was a Natural one. I think STO's idea of it being artificially induced, and maybe altered somehow, helps to fill that hole.
But then again... there are many things in Star Trek that don't make sense, even in the good instnaces. How does accellerating around a star send you through time using a slingshot maneuver and computer calculations? I mean if ANY ship can do it, why have we only seen it once or twice? Why did the Enterprise-Ehave to recreate the Borg Time Portal if they could have just done a slingshot around the Sun?
Some things I'm willing to let slide for the sake of story. But others, when looking back at it like falling out of LUNAR orbit in a few minutes, is a stretch even for the sake of story.
I still have issue with the LACK of any kind of response from Starfleet regarding a full on battle between the Enterprise and an "unknown" IN LUNAR ORBIT! I'm pretty sure the Lunar colonies got a VERY good view of the fireworks and reported it. Where was Starfleet's Sol Defense assets? Hell... where were they when Nero launched a direct attack on Earth? Access Codes asside, the minute that drill went off, Starfleet should have known something was wrong and sent SOMETHING to investigate. Hell... even an almost complete Connie from, say, San Fransisco Fleet Yards or Utopia Planitia would have been better than nothing!
probably because data on the slingshot was classified at the highest levels after it happened...after all, starfleet wouldn't want easy timetravel falling into the wrong hands - which it did eventually anyway, making that ultimately futile
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Well, since this discussion has moved away from game talk, I'm going to move this thread to Ten Forward.
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Well I seem to recall DS9 mentioning some manner of devasting Klingon civil war where much of the noble class was killed off and replaced. We know that even on a good day the Klingons are a pretty fragmented society, so they might have spent much of that time period feuding amongst themselves over how the Empire would be divided up. Besides, even with starships an invasion of a planet with a population in the billions is a logistical nightmare in any scenario.
It kind of makes you wonder what Trek would look like if one of the other civilizations had been the first to make contact with Earth.
Edit: If you include Beta-Canon then the Borg couldn't invade Earth before the Earth-Romulan War due to a predestination paradox. In the Destiny novels it is revealed that the crew of the NX-02 accidentally created the Borg due to involvement with an advanced isolationist world and some time travel shenanigans.
Space is also insanely big. Earth is only week away but you have to know it's there. Klingons may have known a planet was at that location but otherwise saw no reason to go to it or simply didn't get to it before we found them.
Dr. Miranda Jones: I understand, Mr. Spock. The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity.
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
Comments
Given she mentioned they had been evolving into their current form over those thousands of centuries, it's just as likely that the Collective was already a power but the Vaadwaur didn't know the full size of the Collective simply because they believed there was nothing of value to justify expanding into the area (which would fit with their well-known habit of ignoring anything that doesn't interest them).
The original race that became the Borg were probably long extinct before civilization even emerged on the Vaadwaur homeworld.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I believe Sol System was also considered to be in a backwater region of no strategic importance. Hence why some races were like "where?" when it was brought up in the first season of Enterprise.
To which Archer promptly gave them the coordinates and told them we leave the spare key under a mountain and that we're all off-world for several days every second month.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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a bit of conflict around the whole Vulcan and Klingon warp drive thing, two ferengi's; Quark and Soval, both of them mention that Vulcans and Klingons didn't have warp drive until some point in the 1950's but it was possible that Klingons had a different form of propulsion before this, it might even be possible they were operating on some form of advanced impulse drive and spent centuries getting from Qo'Nos to Boreth to setup a monastery there in order to honor Kahless after his death, they could of used a form of stasis pods or a generational ship with only the body of kahless in stasis and the generations of klingons afterwards left to complete their duties and only after Klingon ships got warp drive did the news spread of Kahless a thousand years later.
Remember something, it was stated by the ENT-E crew that Vulcans had little to no interest in species that have yet to develop enough because of their non-interference policy during that time. Vulcans were also known to be aggressive towards Klingon patrols after first contact negoitations became violent from what Sarek mentioned to Burnham, in addition the Vulcans learned it was better to destroy them than defeat Klingons because it would assure them a a place in the klingon afterlife in honorable battle as one of the Vulcans said before Archer and T'Pol outside the operating room with Klang inside.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
True, but the point I was making was that the Vulcans were in the area. It wasn't intenionally protecting the humans. Its just that the Vulcans were in the way, and as you said, aggressive in their approach with the Klingons.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If we consider it takes... what... a few days or something at least for an Apollo module to get from Earth to the Moon... we'd have to multiply that by a rather large margine to cut that down from days to minutes.
We can also invoke societal factors: the Klingons have a long history of falling into internal conflicts if there isn't a handy foreign enemy (and often even then), and civil strife tends to hold back technological development rather than advance it. It's also worth noting that the Klingons tend to disdain their scientists and engineers in favor of warriors, meaning less resource allocation to the pure research that produces major technological advancements.
You're also forgetting about the Romulans, who had comparable power and are traditional rivals of the Klingons. The Empire would've had to keep significant forces at home to keep the Rihannsu from getting grabby, meaning less to devote to conquering second- and third-tier powers like Vulcan and the Andorian Empire. And both those polities, plus Tellar, are between the Klingon Empire and Sol. You might look for a comparison in the stated relationship between the Imperium of Man and the Tau Empire over in Warhammer 40,000. Man for man and ship for ship, the tau are at least as good at fighting as the humans (and are advancing their technology faster), but the Imperium has overwhelming numerical superiority. Why, then, does the Imperium not wipe out the tau? Because they know that the tau wouldn't make it easy for them: any such campaign would likely be a Pyrrhic victory, because they'd have to reallocate forces from elsewhere in the Imperium that are busy trying to keep all their other enemies contained. Whereas if they maintain the status quo, they can at least contain the tau locally and even form alliances with them against mutual enemies such as the tyranid Hive Fleet Kraken.
EDIT: Oh for Prophets' sakes, forum censor, "r*tard" is a verb, not just a noun. *massive eye roll*
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
For example, when Starfleet was experimenting with the Warp 5 engine, when they hit a roadblock the Vulcans insisted they scrap the whole design and try again. Yet... all it took was messing with the intermix ratio to get the design to work. Something the Vulcans wouldn't have done.
So... humans are also risk takers.
the ents from LOTR being a good example - essentially immortal for all intents and purposes, it takes them an hour just to say 'Good morning'
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I don't know if it's a trope or not but it certainly makes sense. If you don't have much time you try to squeeze as much in as you can.
I would also say that with shorter life spans comes more generations. It didn't seem as if Vulcans had kids any faster or in higher numbers then humans. So 1 person that lives 200 or so years has 1 or 2 kids. By the time Vulcans are grand parents humans are on 6 or 7th generation. Lots more minds so lots more chances for new ideas and discoveries. We all tend to get set in our ways and follow a pattern of similar thoughts and ideas. 1 person living 200 years is just not going to think of as much of a variety of different stuff as as 6 or 7 people spread over the same time frame would.
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
-Star Trek: Is There in Truth No Beauty? (1968)
It would be like expecting the sailors of ancient Greece to never have visited the shores of northern Africa in their explorations. It's basically right next door, for crying out loud!
And that, boys and girls, is one reason why I don't worry overmuch about "canon" in Trek. (That, and I grew up on TOS, back when "continuity" in episodic TV basically meant everyone had the same names and faces from one episode to the next.)
Oh, as an aside, Apollo 11 took about two and a half days to cross from Luna to Earth, after an initial burn giving the capsule a speed of about 3600 mph (5850 kph). It took a tad over twelve hours for it to reach the point at which Earth's gravity affected it more than Luna's, about 38,900 miles from Luna and about 200,000 from Earth.
"Falling" from Lunar orbit to Earth's surface in less than an hour is even more ludicrous than Earth's remaining undiscovered by an aggressively expansionistic, territorial species living a week away.
> Oh, as an aside, Apollo 11 took about two and a half days to cross from Luna to Earth, after an initial burn giving the capsule a speed of about 3600 mph (5850 kph). It took a tad over twelve hours for it to reach the point at which Earth's gravity affected it more than Luna's, about 38,900 miles from Luna and about 200,000 from Earth.
>
> "Falling" from Lunar orbit to Earth's surface in less than an hour is even more ludicrous than Earth's remaining undiscovered by an aggressively expansionistic, territorial species living a week away.
This. What happened in STID isn't a COMPLETE physical impossibility, unlike the nonsense with the supernova in the previous film, but still requires the Enterprise and Vengeance to have traveled from Luna to Earth at a measurable fraction of the speed of light. The Moon is 385192 km from Earth. Using round numbers for simplicity, to travel that distance in an hour requires the ships to be traveling at 385192 km/h, about half the rotational velocity of the Sol system around the core of the Milky Way.
Forget saving the Enterprise or managing a controlled crash in Vengeance: the ships would pass through Earth's atmosphere in less than two seconds and impact with sufficient force to wipe out all life on the planet.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
As for the supernova... it doesn't make sense if it was a Natural one. I think STO's idea of it being artificially induced, and maybe altered somehow, helps to fill that hole.
But then again... there are many things in Star Trek that don't make sense, even in the good instnaces. How does accellerating around a star send you through time using a slingshot maneuver and computer calculations? I mean if ANY ship can do it, why have we only seen it once or twice? Why did the Enterprise-E have to recreate the Borg Time Portal if they could have just done a slingshot around the Sun?
Some things I'm willing to let slide for the sake of story. But others, when looking back at it like falling out of LUNAR orbit in a few minutes, is a stretch even for the sake of story.
I still have issue with the LACK of any kind of response from Starfleet regarding a full on battle between the Enterprise and an "unknown" IN LUNAR ORBIT! I'm pretty sure the Lunar colonies got a VERY good view of the fireworks and reported it. Where was Starfleet's Sol Defense assets? Hell... where were they when Nero launched a direct attack on Earth? Access Codes asside, the minute that drill went off, Starfleet should have known something was wrong and sent SOMETHING to investigate. Hell... even an almost complete Connie from, say, San Fransisco Fleet Yards or Utopia Planitia would have been better than nothing!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
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It kind of makes you wonder what Trek would look like if one of the other civilizations had been the first to make contact with Earth.
Edit: If you include Beta-Canon then the Borg couldn't invade Earth before the Earth-Romulan War due to a predestination paradox. In the Destiny novels it is revealed that the crew of the NX-02 accidentally created the Borg due to involvement with an advanced isolationist world and some time travel shenanigans.
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
-Star Trek: Is There in Truth No Beauty? (1968)