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IF we get a Cardassian origin story...

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  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,494 Arc User
    Playable Cardassians... I wouldn't mind being a True Way officer who eventually defects, possibly with Kardek's exposure as a contributing factor.

    Well, except for the fact that I'd probably have to blow up at least 1 Galaxy Class... being forced to do that always brings a tear to my eyes.
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    nefarius2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.

    Well as an owner of a Galor and Keldon ship it would not bother me in the slightest if a Cardassian faction had access to those ships. The whole reason I have them is because I made a Cardassian with the Alien option. To play as a true Cardassian would be a dream come true. (Besides, I really don't see many Galors or Keldons flying around these days. Do you?)

    I also think if anyone who should feel resentment it would be those making Cardassian toons on a Cardassian faction. Seeing those Feddies and Klingons flying around in their Galors and Keldons...it's vile!
    nefarius2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.

    Well as an owner of a Galor and Keldon ship it would not bother me in the slightest if a Cardassian faction had access to those ships. The whole reason I have them is because I made a Cardassian with the Alien option. To play as a true Cardassian would be a dream come true. (Besides, I really don't see many Galors or Keldons flying around these days. Do you?)

    I also think if anyone who should feel resentment it would be those making Cardassian toons on a Cardassian faction. Seeing those Feddies and Klingons flying around in their Galors and Keldons...it's vile!
    I bought by Galor for the Spiral Wave Disruptors... Flew it once round the Sol System, just to see what it was like, then promptly discharged it :lol: (Kept the Spiral Wave Disruptors, of course :wink: )
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,908 Arc User
    You threw away a GALOR... O-o'

    Anyways, I'm hoping that ViL will allow players to enjoy the glory of basking in the wisdom of the Founders. :D
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 33,908 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Not sure Andrew Robinson would be down with Garak being a Legate. He wrote a novel, A Stitch In Time, exploring Elim Garak's past, his perspective on certain events during the run of DS9, and his self-chosen role in the reconstruction of Cardassia after the war; at one point, Garak specifically rejected any role in the new government, saying that he had no place in the forming council because of his background.

    I mean, he's an actor, he's going to do the voice if he gets paid to do the voice, but he'd probably do a better job if Garak just served as a narrator, or perhaps an older gentleman in the area offering advice to the young Cardassian about to join the home defense fleet. (Then, of course, you'd fold your character into the Starfleet story about level 10, because so far as I know there's no justification for Cardassians joining the KDF.)
    Or the Cardassian version of Section 31. :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,922 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    rattler2 wrote: »
    because so far as I know there's no justification for Cardassians joining the KDF.)
    Both the Federation and Klingon Empire are able to open up Diplomatic Relations, and an officer exchange program, with the Cardassians, as part of the "Consular Authority" doff chain. The only such shared species in the 7 different "Consular Authority" doff chains there are.

    The Feds get
    -Bajor
    -Cardassia
    -Karemma
    -Parada
    (And we know from the GQ Doff packs that the Feds have some sort of arrangement with the Tosk)

    While the KDF gets
    -Cardassia
    -Dosi
    -Ferasa
    -Wadi
    (Likewise with the Feds, we know from the GQ Doff packs that the KDF has some sort of arrangement with the Hunters)
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    You threw away a GALOR... O-o'

    Anyways, I'm hoping that ViL will allow players to enjoy the glory of basking in the wisdom of the Founders. :D
    Yup, I literally only bought it for the weapons :sunglasses:

    As a rule my characters only fly faction-appropriate ships (the exception to that rule, being the semi-locked alt, who, purely for the lulz, has a Kazon Raider on the roster, which is very rarely flown)
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • nefarius2nefarius2 Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    nefarius2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.

    Well as an owner of a Galor and Keldon ship it would not bother me in the slightest if a Cardassian faction had access to those ships. The whole reason I have them is because I made a Cardassian with the Alien option. To play as a true Cardassian would be a dream come true. (Besides, I really don't see many Galors or Keldons flying around these days. Do you?)

    I also think if anyone who should feel resentment it would be those making Cardassian toons on a Cardassian faction. Seeing those Feddies and Klingons flying around in their Galors and Keldons...it's vile!
    nefarius2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.

    Well as an owner of a Galor and Keldon ship it would not bother me in the slightest if a Cardassian faction had access to those ships. The whole reason I have them is because I made a Cardassian with the Alien option. To play as a true Cardassian would be a dream come true. (Besides, I really don't see many Galors or Keldons flying around these days. Do you?)

    I also think if anyone who should feel resentment it would be those making Cardassian toons on a Cardassian faction. Seeing those Feddies and Klingons flying around in their Galors and Keldons...it's vile!
    I bought by Galor for the Spiral Wave Disruptors... Flew it once round the Sol System, just to see what it was like, then promptly discharged it :lol: (Kept the Spiral Wave Disruptors, of course :wink: )

    Well the spiral wave disruptors were the icing on the cake. Love em. But, see folks are even dischaging them ships. Bring on the Cardies!
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    nefarius2 wrote: »
    nefarius2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.

    Well as an owner of a Galor and Keldon ship it would not bother me in the slightest if a Cardassian faction had access to those ships. The whole reason I have them is because I made a Cardassian with the Alien option. To play as a true Cardassian would be a dream come true. (Besides, I really don't see many Galors or Keldons flying around these days. Do you?)

    I also think if anyone who should feel resentment it would be those making Cardassian toons on a Cardassian faction. Seeing those Feddies and Klingons flying around in their Galors and Keldons...it's vile!
    nefarius2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.

    Well as an owner of a Galor and Keldon ship it would not bother me in the slightest if a Cardassian faction had access to those ships. The whole reason I have them is because I made a Cardassian with the Alien option. To play as a true Cardassian would be a dream come true. (Besides, I really don't see many Galors or Keldons flying around these days. Do you?)

    I also think if anyone who should feel resentment it would be those making Cardassian toons on a Cardassian faction. Seeing those Feddies and Klingons flying around in their Galors and Keldons...it's vile!
    I bought by Galor for the Spiral Wave Disruptors... Flew it once round the Sol System, just to see what it was like, then promptly discharged it :lol: (Kept the Spiral Wave Disruptors, of course :wink: )

    Well the spiral wave disruptors were the icing on the cake. Love em. But, see folks are even dischaging them ships. Bring on the Cardies!
    Maybe it could be thought of as like depreciation on a car; The moment it's driven off the lot, it loses value :wink: I know folks get cross when their consoles etc get devalued with nerfs, but, it happens... Bringing in a playable acardassian faction, would enable there to be more Cardassian ships, and with different capabilities than just the Keldon and the Galor :sunglasses:
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,757 Arc User
    Not having Cardassians as a playable faction to this point has been something of a sin by itself, they are the 4th major power in the AQ/BQ for over a century since the emergence of the Dominion and the Borg. They need to be explained and have been left forgotten all this time. Even one time races like the Voth, Turei and Vaadwuar have had signifcantly more air time on STO to date than the Cardassians which have been reduced to irrelivence by the shortened storyline arc recently.

    A lot will need to be explained with the current view of the Dominion from the Cardassian point of view. Is Natima Lang still leading the Detapa council?
    Where are Rekelen and Hogue in all this?
    What happened to Garak?
    Ekoor the last remaining member of the Stike team after Damar's demise, what happened to him?
    The Treaty of Bajor: How restricting is the agreement on every day Cardassian affairs along the borders with raiders and pirates?
    What is the current state of affairs between the now muted Cardassians and the fiery Bajorans?
    Keiko O'Brien was in in one of the old cardassian missions before you needed to enter into a cave and flush out some true way rodents. Last i knew she was helping the Cardassians to be self sustaining because of her Botanical background, so plants and medicinals. Is she still relevant somehow to the Cardassians?
    The True way: How bigger a threat are they?

    there are even more questions i have, but to condense it into a storyline would be nice.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • caltaircaltair Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    Not having Cardassians as a playable faction to this point has been something of a sin by itself, they are the 4th major power in the AQ/BQ for over a century since the emergence of the Dominion and the Borg. They need to be explained and have been left forgotten all this time. Even one time races like the Voth, Turei and Vaadwuar have had signifcantly more air time on STO to date than the Cardassians which have been reduced to irrelivence by the shortened storyline arc recently.

    A lot will need to be explained with the current view of the Dominion from the Cardassian point of view. Is Natima Lang still leading the Detapa council?
    Where are Rekelen and Hogue in all this?
    What happened to Garak?
    Ekoor the last remaining member of the Stike team after Damar's demise, what happened to him?
    The Treaty of Bajor: How restricting is the agreement on every day Cardassian affairs along the borders with raiders and pirates?
    What is the current state of affairs between the now muted Cardassians and the fiery Bajorans?
    Keiko O'Brien was in in one of the old cardassian missions before you needed to enter into a cave and flush out some true way rodents. Last i knew she was helping the Cardassians to be self sustaining because of her Botanical background, so plants and medicinals. Is she still relevant somehow to the Cardassians?
    The True way: How bigger a threat are they?

    there are even more questions i have, but to condense it into a storyline would be nice.

    I totally agree. I was really disappointed to see the Cardassian arc shortened instead of expanded on. Hopefully that changes soon.
    FB4iiAz.png
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    Likewise, I was hugely disappointed when the 'revamp' basically wrote the Cardassians out of their own arc in favour of Mirror Leeta and her Terran morons. There is so much I want to know about them and their state of affairs, most of that covered by mirrorchaos.

    The Cardassians were one of the major powers of the alpha/beta quadrants since way back in TNG and played a truly massive role in DS9. They were central to the series yet they've been shunted into the background. We've had a few minor skirmishes with the True Way but even the 'main boss' was actually just a Changeling.

    As STO is right now, I do feel Cryptic is doing the Cardassians a major disservice.
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,010 Arc User1
    Id love to see the whole species suffer a catastrophic existence failure. Maybe an origin story where a Q makes good on one of their threats to wipe a race out of existence
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,922 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    Not having Cardassians as a playable faction to this point has been something of a sin by itself, they are the 4th major power in the AQ/BQ for over a century since the emergence of the Dominion and the Borg. They need to be explained and have been left forgotten all this time. Even one time races like the Voth, Turei and Vaadwuar have had signifcantly more air time on STO to date than the Cardassians which have been reduced to irrelivence by the shortened storyline arc recently.

    A lot will need to be explained with the current view of the Dominion from the Cardassian point of view.
    1. Is Natima Lang still leading the Detapa council?
    2. Where are Rekelen and Hogue in all this?
    3. What happened to Garak?
    4. Ekoor the last remaining member of the Stike team after Damar's demise, what happened to him?
    5. The Treaty of Bajor: How restricting is the agreement on every day Cardassian affairs along the borders with raiders and pirates?
    6. What is the current state of affairs between the now muted Cardassians and the fiery Bajorans?
    7. Keiko O'Brien was in in one of the old cardassian missions before you needed to enter into a cave and flush out some true way rodents. Last i knew she was helping the Cardassians to be self sustaining because of her Botanical background, so plants and medicinals. Is she still relevant somehow to the Cardassians?
    8. The True way: How bigger a threat are they?

    there are even more questions i have, but to condense it into a storyline would be nice.
    Cardassians were never a major power in the Alpha Quadrant though. Even when they were introduced in TNG, they were just another minor species alongside the likes of the Talarians that had tried, and failed, to war with the Federation. They only became relevant in DS9 because they made a deal with an actual important player, The Dominion., and even then The Dominion treated them like they were expendable as all hell.

    Even within the Alpha/Beta quadrant they aren't "the 4th" of anything, they are the 6th behind
    - The Federation
    - The Klingon Empire
    - The Tholian Assembly
    - The Breen Confederacy
    - The Romulan Star empire

    ZhLTZNr.jpg

    As for your questions
    1. Yes she is.
    2. Literal whos?
    3. Garak became a major political advisor and helped support the new democratic Cardassian government.
    4. Again... literally who?
    5. According to the Path to 2409, the Federation renegotiated the Treaty of Bajor, forced the Cardassian Union to dismantle its military, and keep only a small planetary defense force, with the Federation being obligated to protect them in case of invasion from an outside power.
    6. Again, read the Path to 2409. The Bajoran Government orignally asked that Cardassia turn over many citizen to stand trial for crimes during the occupation, Cardassia declined, but the Cardassian's Treaty with the Federation to not wage war again, and to dismantle its military, caused them to drop said request. On June 2nd, 2400, the Cardassians and Bajorans established normalized relations, with visa and travel restrictions between the two being dropped, and Cardassia establishing an embassy on Bajor. Hostilities between the two have been over between them for a decade at this point.
    7. This is a valid unanswered question.
    8. Given that we capture their leader, stop their deal with the Mirror Universe, stop their deal with the NEw Link, and get the New Link to not see us as a threat... they aren't a threat.
  • caltaircaltair Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    Cardassians were never a major power in the Alpha Quadrant though. Even when they were introduced in TNG, they were just another minor species alongside the likes of the Talarians that had tried, and failed, to war with the Federation. They only became relevant in DS9 because they made a deal with an actual important player, The Dominion., and even then The Dominion treated them like they were expendable as all hell.

    Even within the Alpha/Beta quadrant they aren't "the 4th" of anything, they are the 6th behind
    - The Federation
    - The Klingon Empire
    - The Tholian Assembly
    - The Breen Confederacy
    - The Romulan Star empire

    You sell the Cardassians far short, just on the assumption that they are weak just because they lost a war with the Federation. Technically, that would apply to both the Klingons and the Romulans as well. There is no indication in TNG that the Cardassians were "minor", merely that they were weaker than the Feds, which doesn't give much of a comparison since this is Star Trek and almost everyone is weaker than the Federation.

    The Tholians are so enigmatic and isolated that it's difficult to place their rank since the galaxy knows even less about them than about the Romulans. The Breen are pretty much ignored in TNG and only brought into the story in DS9. Yes, their ships were comparable to the most powerful Federation starships but so are the So'na Battlecruisers and the Ferengi Marauders.

    Also, Memory Alpha specifically says that the four major powers of the Alpha Quadrant were the Federation, the Cardassian Union, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Star Empire - list is in that exact order. The Ferengi is listed a mercantile power and both the Breen and Tholians are described as isolationist powers. The distinction between Major Power and Isolationist Power is important since Major Powers apply their power across the Quadrant and spread out, while Isolationist Powers stay out of most galaxy situations, which lessens the reach of their power - no matter what kind of military they have within their borders.
    This is similar to what happened in real history after WWI. When the US when isolationist they were no longer described as a major global power, despite their tremendous infrastructure and might. The Major Global Powers became the traditional Western European powers like Britain and France but also Japan and Russia. The United States did not regain Major Power (and later Super Power) status until it re-entered global politics and began to participate again. The same applies to the Cardassians, Tholians, and Breen. The latter two can't be considered Major Powers in the Alpha Quadrant because they're isolationist whereas the Cardassians are not.
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,922 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    caltair wrote: »
    You sell the Cardassians far short, just on the assumption that they are weak just because they lost a war with the Federation. Technically, that would apply to both the Klingons and the Romulans as well. There is no indication in TNG that the Cardassians were "minor", merely that they were weaker than the Feds, which doesn't give much of a comparison since this is Star Trek and almost everyone is weaker than the Federation.
    I never made such an assertion. Lying through your teeth right off the bat doesn't make your arguments look good. I said they are weak because the shows make them out to be, and used the one sided war against the Federation, similar to the Talarian conflicts, as an example.

    The difference between them, and the Klingons and Romulans, is that the shows make it abundantly clear that war with either of those species would be a big deal, that could possibly end the Federation, with even the alternate future that the Tasha Yar who gave birth to Sela showing the Federation's imminent defeat at the hands of The Klingon Empire. Whereas the conflicts with the Cardassians were brushed off as one of a number of minor conflicts the Federation had in the past. Even the wars with the unseen Tzenkethi, and the possibility of another war with the Tzenkethi, was treated with more gravity then that of the Cardassians. In short, the shows made it abundantly clear that the Cardassians were literally a non-issue until they joined up with The Dominion.
    caltair wrote: »
    The Tholians are so enigmatic and isolated that it's difficult to place their rank since the galaxy knows even less about them than about the Romulans. The Breen are pretty much ignored in TNG and only brought into the story in DS9. Yes, their ships were comparable to the most powerful Federation starships but so are the So'na Battlecruisers and the Ferengi Marauders.
    Wrong, the Breen were something of a running joke in TNG, as there were a number of times where someone suggested the Breen where behind something, only for them to turn out to not be. The Breen were known as slavers, mercenaries, and warlike, long before they first came into the picture in DS9, and were considered an obvious first choice for "he who is behind the troubles of the land" for the Federation.

    The Son'a ships were only considered powerful because the Enterprise was alone, outnumbered, and with a Starfleet admiral working against them.
    caltair wrote: »
    Also, Memory Alpha specifically says that the four major powers of the Alpha Quadrant were the Federation, the Cardassian Union, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Star Empire - list is in that exact order.
    Memory Alpha is a fan made website, and are you seriously going to try to push the notion that the Cardassians were more important then the Klingons or Romulans... simply because that's the order they are listed in on Memory Alpha?
    caltair wrote: »
    The distinction between Major Power and Isolationist Power is important since Major Powers apply their power across the Quadrant and spread out
    Which both the Breen and Tholians had been doing, it was just never an issue because they were fairly far away from the Federation. On the other hand, the Cardassian Union had stalled out after the DMZ was established, not gaining any significant ground, and not being considered a real threat to anyone who mattered until they signed up with The Dominion. By your own definition, the Cardassian Union was the Isolationist Power due to them not applying their power across the quadrant, or spreading out, and instead taking a more North Korea like attitude, and huddling up in their territory.
  • caltaircaltair Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    Memory Alpha is a fan made website, and are you seriously going to try to push the notion that the Cardassians were more important then the Klingons or Romulans... simply because that's the order they are listed in on Memory Alpha?

    Is Memory Alpha fan made? Yes. Is Memory Alpha more substantial and more reliable than your opinions? Yes.
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  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,319 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    Memory Alpha was supposed to be for canon stuff, while Memory Beta was supposed to be for non-canon stuff.
  • shadowkoshshadowkosh Member Posts: 1,009 Arc User
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,670 Arc User
    > @avoozuul said:
    > Memory Alpha was supposed to be for canon stuff, while Memory Beta was supposed to be for non-canon stuff.


    Memory Alpha details canon info yes and the site creators have in fact helped define canon via their contribution to ST Beyond (they made up the name of the element Uhura's pendant is made of), but they often use less than canon information sources.

    For more info

    @artan42
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,922 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    caltair wrote: »
    Is Memory Alpha fan made? Yes. Is Memory Alpha more substantial and more reliable than your opinions? Yes.
    My opinion are irrelevant, which is why I never posted any. Both TNG and DS9 make it clear that no one considered the Cardassians a major species until they joined up with The Dominion. The Cardassians were just one of a number of smaller species like the Kzinti, Talarians, Tzenkethi, and Gorn, that the Federation had a few brief conflicts with in the past, who had long since fallen off as a major entity, and capitalized big on the new force from the other side of the wormhole to try to gain power.

    On the other hand, the Klingons feared fighting the Breen in battle due to the Breen's viciousness, the Romulans, known for their treachery, considered the Breen so duplicitous that even they would never turn their back on the Breen, and the Breen were such a constant annoyance to the Federation that they were often one of the first considered to be behind attacks, when seemingly random attacks occurred.

    And when it comes to the Tholians, their conflicts with the Klingon Empire stretch back over 200 years, all the way back to before the Broken Bow Incident. They participated in the Temporal Cold War. And they were considered such a threat that, even in 2353, over 200 years after they were first seen by the NX, Starfleet was still fighting them in sporadic conflicts, and developing various battle strategies, and combat simulations, against them. It was even suspected, in one episode of TNG, that if a Klingon Civil War broke out, the Tholians would get involved, because the Tholians are that big of players.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,670 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > caltair wrote: »
    >
    > Is Memory Alpha fan made? Yes. Is Memory Alpha more substantial and more reliable than your opinions? Yes.
    >
    >
    >
    > My opinion are irrelevant, which is why I never posted any. Both TNG and DS9 make it clear that no one considered the Cardassians a major species until they joined up with The Dominion. The Cardassians were just one of a number of smaller species like the Kzinti, Talarians, Tzenkethi, that the Federation has a few brief wars with in the past, who had long since fallen off as a major entity, and capitalized big on the new force from the other side of the wormhole to try to gain power.

    After all a Nebula class vaped every Cardie ship it met.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • caltaircaltair Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    After all a Nebula class vaped every Cardie ship it met.

    The fact that a Federation starship can outclass the ships of another galactic nation state doesn't mean that that nation isn't a major power in the quadrant. The Borg can vape any Federation ship at will, without blinking, so does that mean the Federation isn't considered a Major Power anymore, now that the Borg are operating in the Alpha Quadrant?
    My opinion are irrelevant, which is why I never posted any. Both TNG and DS9 make it clear that no one considered the Cardassians a major species until they joined up with The Dominion. The Cardassians were just one of a number of smaller species like the Kzinti, Talarians, Tzenkethi, and Gorn, that the Federation had a few brief conflicts with in the past, who had long since fallen off as a major entity, and capitalized big on the new force from the other side of the wormhole to try to gain power.

    On the other hand, the Klingons feared fighting the Breen in battle due to the Breen's viciousness, the Romulans, known for their treachery, considered the Breen so duplicitous that even they would never turn their back on the Breen, and the Breen were such a constant annoyance to the Federation that they were often one of the first considered to be behind attacks, when seemingly random attacks occurred.

    And when it comes to the Tholians, their conflicts with the Klingon Empire stretch back over 200 years, all the way back to before the Broken Bow Incident. They participated in the Temporal Cold War. And they were considered such a threat that, even in 2353, over 200 years after they were first seen by the NX, Starfleet was still fighting them in sporadic conflicts, and developing various battle strategies, and combat simulations, against them. It was even suspected, in one episode of TNG, that if a Klingon Civil War broke out, the Tholians would get involved, because the Tholians are that big of players.

    The original point was about where in the ranks of power Cardassia can be placed, not if they were ever a Major Power to begin with. The fact that the Federation or the Klingon Empire were more powerful than the Cardassian Union has no bearing on whether or not the Cardassians projected their power across the quadrant. Even when the Cardassians were limited by the DMZ they still regularly operated outside of their borders, projecting their will through military, political, and economic might. That is the definition of a Major Power, period.

    The Tholians only leave their territory on very rare occasions and do not carry a general interest in the activities of the Quadrant. Therefore, they are out of the running for the list of Major Powers. They are powerful and they have national interests, but they are under a different category.

    The scope of Breen activities is largely unknown - even if they are a running joke, they're just that, a joke - until the events of the Dominion War. An argument could be made for them to have Major Power status but only if their activities involved more than quick raids on their neighbors. Raider nation states are typically far less centrally organized which also disqualifies them from Major Power status more often than not.


    And don't ever accuse me of "lying through [my] teeth" again. Especially not when all I've said is remark on the meaning of your own words.
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,922 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    caltair wrote: »
    The original point was about where in the ranks of power Cardassia can be placed, not if they were ever a Major Power to begin with. The fact that the Federation or the Klingon Empire were more powerful than the Cardassian Union has no bearing on whether or not the Cardassians projected their power across the quadrant. Even when the Cardassians were limited by the DMZ they still regularly operated outside of their borders, projecting their will through military, political, and economic might. That is the definition of a Major Power, period.

    The Tholians only leave their territory on very rare occasions and do not carry a general interest in the activities of the Quadrant. Therefore, they are out of the running for the list of Major Powers. They are powerful and they have national interests, but they are under a different category.

    The scope of Breen activities is largely unknown - even if they are a running joke, they're just that, a joke - until the events of the Dominion War. An argument could be made for them to have Major Power status but only if their activities involved more than quick raids on their neighbors. Raider nation states are typically far less centrally organized which also disqualifies them from Major Power status more often than not.

    And don't ever accuse me of "lying through [my] teeth" again. Especially not when all I've said is remark on the meaning of your own words.
    I will accuse you of exactly what you do so long as you do it, and so long as you blatantly twist what was actually said for your own agenda. You don't want to be accused of your own actions, then don't do them.

    Whats more, the Tholians maintained an ambassador on DS9, and relations with the Romulans, both of which are far outside their territory. Much like with the Breen, you seem to make the mistake of thinking on screen appearances are the only times a race interacts, when that is not true. The Tholians do not physically appear because it is prohibitively expensive to do so, since they are all CGI, that does not mean they don't do it often.

    The Tholians didn't get to have the third largest empire in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant by sitting in their home territory all the time.
  • caltaircaltair Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    Then we're done talking, I twisted nothing and you have been nothing but combative and hostile to everyone you've spoken too. Enough with your high horse.
    Bye Felicia.
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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,670 Arc User
    @caltair

    Actually the Borg proved repeatedly unable to destroy the Enterprise (Picard's tank build is fantastic) despite throwing everything they had at it. Then they got beaten by Riker's clickie console cheese build. They also failed to destroy the Defiant ("adrift but salvagable"). The Cardassians on the other hand got beaten by a T3 ship (T6 Nebula didn't come until 2410) despite having access to the Phoenix's transponder codes.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Guys... I did not create this thread to start a war.

    Delta Rising was essentially an homage toe Star trek Voyager. Agents of Yesterday was an homage to TOS. This next expansion will be missing a BIG opportunity if it is not an homage to the Deep Space Nine series. A cardassian origin story, bridging the gap between the last official events of DS9 to the STO events starting in 2409, would be a good part of that, in my mind.

    Regarding the Galor class lockbox ship.

    Why not have a repeatable Doff mission that takes 4 hours that awards 1 or 5 cardassian lock boxes. Furthermore, put the Galor Class on the lobi store at a high lobi cost. this way, it can eventually be bought regardless of whether or not it drops when opening the box. You can only get lobi from opening boxes. so ultimately you could still only get the Galor via lockbox.

    Another option is to make it where the Galor Class from the lockbox can be traded with a Cardassian origin story character on one's own account that becomes available to that character upon completion of the origin story. with the Cardassians joining the Alliance at this point, it makes sense that salvaged Galor Class ships can be given back to Cardassia.

    So with the above, the galor remains a lockbox ship, and players who already obtained one as a KDF or UFP player will be able to use it for their Cardassian character if they create one... The Cardassian lockbox would be made available as a reward for Cardassian-related Doff assignments, so they don't have to do anything to whatever the current featured lockbox drop is.

    There could be new Cardassian ships released as part of the origin story that are NOT Galor class. Similar to how the NRR got a few new Romulan ships. After the origin story merges with the STO segment of the timeline, then UFP/KDF ships would become available. Like I said. I realize that "faction" as it pertains to post-Iconin-War STO is merely an alternative origin story for characters that ultimately get folded into UFP/KDF content, rather than being an actual faction.

    So the issues surrounding a Cardassian origin story even though the trademark cardassian ship is a lockbox ship CAN be resolved.
    I have no snarky remarks to make, at this time...
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,757 Arc User
    Guys... I did not create this thread to start a war.

    So long as no one is stopping Somtaar from forcing his view points on others in blatant disrespectful fashion and willfully so, that is all you will get. i don't care what he wrote in my reply to what i said because it will never end.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,922 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    Delta Rising was essentially an homage toe Star trek Voyager. Agents of Yesterday was an homage to TOS. This next expansion will be missing a BIG opportunity if it is not an homage to the Deep Space Nine series. A cardassian origin story, bridging the gap between the last official events of DS9 to the STO events starting in 2409, would be a good part of that, in my mind.
    Well, we do know the next expansion is DS9 based, which makes sense given that next year is DS9's 25th anniversary. Though, without saying much, from what little I've seen/heard about it, Cardassian origin story isn't a big part of it.

    In fact, it seems like the Klingons are getting the biggest story arc out of it.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Delta Rising was essentially an homage toe Star trek Voyager. Agents of Yesterday was an homage to TOS. This next expansion will be missing a BIG opportunity if it is not an homage to the Deep Space Nine series. A cardassian origin story, bridging the gap between the last official events of DS9 to the STO events starting in 2409, would be a good part of that, in my mind.
    Well, we do know the next expansion is DS9 based, which makes sense given that next year is DS9's 25th anniversary. Though, without saying much, from what little I've seen/heard about it, Cardassian origin story isn't a big part of it.

    In fact, it seems like the Klingons are getting the biggest story arc out of it.

    I'm down with that... The title if this thread is "IF we get a Cardassian origin story." So I know that it, like anything else any of us would like to see happen with this game, is subject to the whims of PWE/Cryptic. They are going to do whatever they are going to do, regardless. All I know is that the Cardassians were major players in the DS9 series, so I will maintain that it would be a big missed opportunity to not add an OFFICIAL cardassian playable character.

    It would be a big bonus if there is a path to STO story arc that sees our Cardassian character through the events post DS9 to at least where STO began... So even if they just add Cardassian to both the UFP and KDF species selector rather than adding an option to the faction selector, then if they can set the starting location for a Cardassian character to Cardassia Prime, with a condition of "If species = KDF_Cardassian" or "If Species = UFP_Cardassian" then the origin story mission arc for cardassians could be self contained the way the Romulan-Reman origin story is handled. The logic switch would just check chosen species rather than faction. I ASSUME that the game can be made to do this for at least new content. Old content need not be altered.
    I have no snarky remarks to make, at this time...
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,922 Arc User
    I'm down with that... The title if this thread is "IF we get a Cardassian origin story." So I know that it, like anything else any of us would like to see happen with this game, is subject to the whims of PWE/Cryptic. They are going to do whatever they are going to do, regardless. All I know is that the Cardassians were major players in the DS9 series, so I will maintain that it would be a big missed opportunity to not add an OFFICIAL cardassian playable character.

    It would be a big bonus if there is a path to STO story arc that sees our Cardassian character through the events post DS9 to at least where STO began... So even if they just add Cardassian to both the UFP and KDF species selector rather than adding an option to the faction selector, then if they can set the starting location for a Cardassian character to Cardassia Prime, with a condition of "If species = KDF_Cardassian" or "If Species = UFP_Cardassian" then the origin story mission arc for cardassians could be self contained the way the Romulan-Reman origin story is handled. The logic switch would just check chosen species rather than faction. I ASSUME that the game can be made to do this for at least new content. Old content need not be altered.
    Playable Cardassians would be great even if they just add them to the Fed and KDF race selection screen, and do some lore blog stating that, after the Federation renegotiated the treaty with the Cardassians, and became responsible for protecting the Cardassian Union in case of outside invasion, the Cardassian Government also starting making deal with the Klingon Empire for similar protection as well, turning it into a situation much like the Romulan Republic, so they can play either side.
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