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IF we get a Cardassian origin story...

Let me first preface this with the understanding that "faction" in terms of the post-iconian-war era of STO refers to an origin story of a particular subset of character types... A way of introducing new players... or veteran players... to the currant STO narrative from a new perspective.

It seems clear that 2018 will bring us the Gamma Quadrant, which will by need of Star Trek precedemt involve Bajor, Deep Space Nine, and the wormhole as the jump-off and tie-in points. But I also see a wonderful opportunity to carry on the post-dominion-war storyline surrounding Cardassia.

Some in this community have wanted a cardassian faction. And I want to be among those championing that branch of new-character-narrative.

Because the last we saw of Cardassia in Deep Space Nine was that of a world and society in ruin, it is my sincere hope that the initial content of potential; cardassian-centric content would chronicle the period of rebuilding following the Dominion War. And I want to propose that this period of rebuilding be modeled after fleet holdings, but achievable for individuals. To clarify, I refer to the mechanics. As a cardassian citizen stepping up to be instrumental in this period, we would be interacting with Legate Garrick to help rebuild Cardassia.

Yes. Let Garrack factor heavily in the story. And please... Try to get Andrew Robinson to give the character his voice.

And to clarify... this would not just be about Cardassian. It would also involve Bajor and Deep Space Nine. So there is an opportunity to bring back several DS9 cast members as several VOY characters were brought back for Delta Quadrant stories.

So how would the fleet holding model apply? Simple... through gameplay tied to the Cardassian/Bajor/DS9 plotline, Cardassia prime would gradually be built back up to a point where as a civilization it can contribute to the post-iconian era, where all players find themselves regardless of the origin story concerned.

That's something I would like to see. What do you all think?
I have no snarky remarks to make, at this time...
«1345

Comments

  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,322 Arc User
    I really do hope they add a Cardassian faction, but they would have to release future versions of their ships since two were already released as lockbox ships.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,170 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    I really do hope they add a Cardassian faction, but they would have to release future versions of their ships since two were already released as lockbox ships.

    The two ICONIC ships.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,322 Arc User
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,784 Arc User
    Wouldn't a Cardassian origin story more or less be a copy of the Romulan one?
    2r2u1s2.jpg
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,567 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Wouldn't a Cardassian origin story more or less be a copy of the Romulan one?

    only if they make that way, there is at least one other way it could go.


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    I'm keen to see what they do. Cardassians have always been one of my favorite races, and to be able to have playable Cardassians (and maybe even Fed-Cardassian boffs!) would be awesome :sunglasses:

    The Fleet holding, hopefully not just another Dranuur colony (New Bajor, for example) it's too soon to be building (or rebuilding a blown up colony) another colony. I would suggest having DS-9 be heavily damaged, and its rebuilding be part of that Fleet holding mechanic, but, it's also a major social zone, so would 'continue to exist' outside of the Player's Fleet's Experience. So, I'll modify that idea to say 'a Federation outpost in the Gamma Quadrant' (space, rather than ground) Could be anything from an embassy, to a deep space array, like in The Motion Picture, plenty of scope for creativity, but of course, the Devs will already be working on it, so not really much point in proposing ideas :lol:

    One thing I do hope to see, is that racist Bajoran finding her way out an airlock... There was no need for her use of the C Word :angry:
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,927 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    I'm keen to see what they do. Cardassians have always been one of my favorite races, and to be able to have playable Cardassians (and maybe even Fed-Cardassian boffs!) would be awesome :sunglasses:

    The Fleet holding, hopefully not just another Dranuur colony (New Bajor, for example) it's too soon to be building (or rebuilding a blown up colony) another colony. I would suggest having DS-9 be heavily damaged, and its rebuilding be part of that Fleet holding mechanic, but, it's also a major social zone, so would 'continue to exist' outside of the Player's Fleet's Experience. So, I'll modify that idea to say 'a Federation outpost in the Gamma Quadrant' (space, rather than ground) Could be anything from an embassy, to a deep space array, like in The Motion Picture, plenty of scope for creativity, but of course, the Devs will already be working on it, so not really much point in proposing ideas :lol:

    One thing I do hope to see, is that racist Bajoran finding her way out an airlock... There was no need for her use of the C Word :angry:
    I suspect the new Fleet Holding will be us laying the ground for the giant base on New Khitomer we see in the future.
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Wouldn't a Cardassian origin story more or less be a copy of the Romulan one?
    Cardassians wouldn't need much of an origin story to begin with given that, as per the Path to 2409, the Federation helped them rebuild their medical facilities, helped them cure at least one major disease, and terraformed part of the planet to grow crops easier so they wouldn't have to be as focused on the state as they were in the past.

    Besides minor attacks from the True Way, the Cardassians are actually pretty well off by the time STO begins.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,116 Arc User
    Please no, I just wouldn't want to sit through the drivel that would pour into the Forums about them being the noblest, self-sacrificing Species to ever exist in the Universe. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • smooshy#7462 smooshy Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    LEGATE Garrack? But he's just a simple tailor! Seriously, though, I'm hoping for the Cardassian faction pretty much as you describe (although I would LOVE for the return of Sisko to fit into the Gamma Quadrant/Wormhole story).
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    I'm keen to see what they do. Cardassians have always been one of my favorite races, and to be able to have playable Cardassians (and maybe even Fed-Cardassian boffs!) would be awesome :sunglasses:

    The Fleet holding, hopefully not just another Dranuur colony (New Bajor, for example) it's too soon to be building (or rebuilding a blown up colony) another colony. I would suggest having DS-9 be heavily damaged, and its rebuilding be part of that Fleet holding mechanic, but, it's also a major social zone, so would 'continue to exist' outside of the Player's Fleet's Experience. So, I'll modify that idea to say 'a Federation outpost in the Gamma Quadrant' (space, rather than ground) Could be anything from an embassy, to a deep space array, like in The Motion Picture, plenty of scope for creativity, but of course, the Devs will already be working on it, so not really much point in proposing ideas :lol:

    One thing I do hope to see, is that racist Bajoran finding her way out an airlock... There was no need for her use of the C Word :angry:
    I suspect the new Fleet Holding will be us laying the ground for the giant base on New Khitomer we see in the future.
    That could work :sunglasses: Possibly, given the name, even beginning as a primarily Klingon colony/endeavour :sunglasses:
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,927 Arc User
    That could work :sunglasses: Possibly, given the name, even beginning as a primarily Klingon colony/endeavour :sunglasses:
    It would be more like the Romulan Embassy holding then a colony-like holding. Being the place where the Alliance made some sort of formal treaty/Alliance with The Dominion, and ushering in the Galactic Union.

    We already have most of the major Alpha. Beta, and Delta Quadrant powers as part of the Alliance, or at least the allied Delta Alliance, and The Dominion is the only major power in the Gamma Quadrant, so getting them in good term would basically mean we founded the Galactic Union.
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    That could work :sunglasses: Possibly, given the name, even beginning as a primarily Klingon colony/endeavour :sunglasses:
    It would be more like the Romulan Embassy holding then a colony-like holding. Being the place where the Alliance made some sort of formal treaty/Alliance with The Dominion, and ushering in the Galactic Union.

    We already have most of the major Alpha. Beta, and Delta Quadrant powers as part of the Alliance, or at least the allied Delta Alliance, and The Dominion is the only major power in the Gamma Quadrant, so getting them in good term would basically mean we founded the Galactic Union.
    Yeah, that would definitely be in keeping, I just speculated the Klingons being the primary force behind said endeavour, due to the name, which is very much one of significance to the Klingons :sunglasses:

    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,550 Arc User
    If there were a cardassian origin story, it would just be a starter ship, a tutorial and a few missions before you join Starfleet (or if they got time to spare, maybe a romulan-style choice between SF/KDF). It would most certainly not continue to the "post-iconian war" arcs or anywhere near it. TOSFed got 6 exclusive missions and that's as much as you can expect if they make any new ones.

    Whatever story they have planned for the expansion, will be crossfaction.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,681 Arc User
    > @silverlobes#2676 said:
    > I'm keen to see what they do. Cardassians have always been one of my favorite races, and to be able to have playable Cardassians (and maybe even Fed-Cardassian boffs!) would be awesome :sunglasses:
    >
    > The Fleet holding, hopefully not just another Dranuur colony (New Bajor, for example) it's too soon to be building (or rebuilding a blown up colony) another colony. I would suggest having DS-9 be heavily damaged, and its rebuilding be part of that Fleet holding mechanic, but, it's also a major social zone, so would 'continue to exist' outside of the Player's Fleet's Experience. So, I'll modify that idea to say 'a Federation outpost in the Gamma Quadrant' (space, rather than ground) Could be anything from an embassy, to a deep space array, like in The Motion Picture, plenty of scope for creativity, but of course, the Devs will already be working on it, so not really much point in proposing ideas :lol:
    >
    > One thing I do hope to see, is that racist Bajoran finding her way out an airlock... There was no need for her use of the C Word :angry:

    You talking about Kai Kira?
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

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    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

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    Robert Heinlein
  • silverlobes#2676 silverlobes Member Posts: 1,953 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @silverlobes#2676 said:
    > I'm keen to see what they do. Cardassians have always been one of my favorite races, and to be able to have playable Cardassians (and maybe even Fed-Cardassian boffs!) would be awesome :sunglasses:
    >
    > The Fleet holding, hopefully not just another Dranuur colony (New Bajor, for example) it's too soon to be building (or rebuilding a blown up colony) another colony. I would suggest having DS-9 be heavily damaged, and its rebuilding be part of that Fleet holding mechanic, but, it's also a major social zone, so would 'continue to exist' outside of the Player's Fleet's Experience. So, I'll modify that idea to say 'a Federation outpost in the Gamma Quadrant' (space, rather than ground) Could be anything from an embassy, to a deep space array, like in The Motion Picture, plenty of scope for creativity, but of course, the Devs will already be working on it, so not really much point in proposing ideas :lol:
    >
    > One thing I do hope to see, is that racist Bajoran finding her way out an airlock... There was no need for her use of the C Word :angry:

    You talking about Kai Kira?
    No, Sarish Minna, and her "Let's teach these Cardies a lesson!" ranting... Given Bajoran lifespans are on a par with Human lifespans, this is most definitely not someone who would have grown up during The Occupation, who would have a legitimate personal reason to have a beef with Cardassians. So her attitude is solely one of being 'raised that way', and picking up that kind of attitude/language from a grand-parent. So it's just a casually racist/institutionally racist attitude, which IMO is uncool, and definitely unbecoming in a Starfleet officer...
    "I fight for the Users!" - Tron

    "I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    I have to admit, an actual playable Cardassian rather than a hodgepodge aliengen one would be very much appreciated by me at least. Having an origin story similar to the ToS Fed one before allying with SF or KDF similar to the Romulan Captain would also be awesome. And I'd love to be able to have a Cardassian boff. Oh yes.

    Though at this point I'd just like to see more storyline missions involving Cardassia and the Cardassian people. They played a truly massive part of DS9 yet they were pretty much written out of their own arc after the revamp in favour of Mirror Leeta and her silly Terran Empire. Even the main True Way "baddie" of the revamp missions was a darned Changeling.

    So, bring back Cardassians! Make it so! ;)
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,480 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    Not sure Andrew Robinson would be down with Garak being a Legate. He wrote a novel, A Stitch In Time, exploring Elim Garak's past, his perspective on certain events during the run of DS9, and his self-chosen role in the reconstruction of Cardassia after the war; at one point, Garak specifically rejected any role in the new government, saying that he had no place in the forming council because of his background.

    I mean, he's an actor, he's going to do the voice if he gets paid to do the voice, but he'd probably do a better job if Garak just served as a narrator, or perhaps an older gentleman in the area offering advice to the young Cardassian about to join the home defense fleet. (Then, of course, you'd fold your character into the Starfleet story about level 10, because so far as I know there's no justification for Cardassians joining the KDF.)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,170 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 5,927 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    jonsills wrote: »
    Not sure Andrew Robinson would be down with Garak being a Legate. He wrote a novel, A Stitch In Time, exploring Elim Garak's past, his perspective on certain events during the run of DS9, and his self-chosen role in the reconstruction of Cardassia after the war; at one point, Garak specifically rejected any role in the new government, saying that he had no place in the forming council because of his background.

    I mean, he's an actor, he's going to do the voice if he gets paid to do the voice, but he'd probably do a better job if Garak just served as a narrator, or perhaps an older gentleman in the area offering advice to the young Cardassian about to join the home defense fleet. (Then, of course, you'd fold your character into the Starfleet story about level 10, because so far as I know there's no justification for Cardassians joining the KDF.)
    Garak became the Castellian of the Cardassian Union later in the novels though.

    In the Path to 2409, he was a major political advisor, and was the one who got several major projects like the Andak project through despite resistance from hardliners. Though in STO, it was Natima Lang who became Castellian.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.
    As I recall, Cryptic has explicitly stated at least once in the past they wold never do another LoR sized faction again, specifically for the reasons you mentioned of not being able to ever catch them up ship wise.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 5,884 Community Moderator
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.

    My fire extinguisher is ready. B)

    True, Delta Rising didn't give us a playable Faction, but it did give us playable Talaxians (wish we had also gotten playable Ocampa) as an LTS reward, I could see them giving us playable Cardassians and/or Dominion the same way.

    As for a possible Cardassian mini-Faction, ala TOS FED, they could get around the ship thing by simply leaving the Galor out. It and its T6 equivalent are the only playable Cardassian ships in-game. Cryptic could make the Hideki and their own Cardassian style ships for leveling and make endgame versions the same way they did for the TOS FED mini-Faction. The Galor and Keldon could be added to the C-Store later with new/different Specialization seating to preserve the originals.
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  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,322 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.
    Look, there's no reason why they can't make two different versions with the lockbox version being available to all factions. We got two different versions of the T6 Sovereign one in c-store one from a promotion, there's no reason why they can't do the same for the Keldon giving it a different universal console and boff seating.

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,550 Arc User
    The only unique ship the TOS "faction" got was the T1 starter ship.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,322 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.
    Look we got two different versions of the T6 Sovereign one for the c-store and another for a promotion from a card pack, they had differing boff seating and different universal consoles, there's no reason why they can't do the same sort of thing with the Keldon making a c-store version with differing boff setup and universal console, oitherwise as I said ealier in the thread they could create future versions of those ships with the lockbox one being the classic version.

  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    jonsills wrote: »
    Not sure Andrew Robinson would be down with Garak being a Legate. He wrote a novel, A Stitch In Time, exploring Elim Garak's past, his perspective on certain events during the run of DS9, and his self-chosen role in the reconstruction of Cardassia after the war; at one point, Garak specifically rejected any role in the new government, saying that he had no place in the forming council because of his background.

    I mean, he's an actor, he's going to do the voice if he gets paid to do the voice, but he'd probably do a better job if Garak just served as a narrator, or perhaps an older gentleman in the area offering advice to the young Cardassian about to join the home defense fleet. (Then, of course, you'd fold your character into the Starfleet story about level 10, because so far as I know there's no justification for Cardassians joining the KDF.)

    It has been a long time since I read "A Stitch in Time." But while the novels are excellent for deeper exploration of characters, they are rarely considered as true canon in terms of the shows. Strictly concerning the Garak written for the show, when we first were introduced to him, I doubt very seriously he would have ever believed he would one day be a resistance fighter. But he became that. When he became a resistance fighter, I doubt he would have thought the he would take up the final charge and lead the resistance to victory. But he did exactly that. And while he probably never thought he could become a leader... if not THE leader... of the Cardassian people going forward after the rebuilding, if he played a key role in the reconstruction, the people may see him as a true hero, and insist upon his leadership.

    It was the old Cardassian government and the obsidian order that despised Garak, and knew his background and nature of his exile. The average citizen would not have cared less. In fact, deep down, MOST of them probably would have seen him as just another victim of the dark political machine running pretty much every facet of their lives. After the Dominion War, however, the average citizen would have know the role he played in their liberation and his on-going role in the restoration of Cardassia. And without the old government and obsidian order there to push their dogma, I think the average Cardassian citizen would be thrilled with the idea of and the possibilities that come with the notion of Cardassia being a unique voice in a greater chorus.

    If I am not mistaken, Kira is the current Kai. Her role in the resistance along side Damar and Garak also would be known to the average Cardassian citizen. And as Kai, I hardly think that she would be holding to her old prejudices against Cardassia, In "What you leave behind" she was horrified at herself when she made that quip at Damar about what kind of people would commit the atrocities the dominion had just committed against Cardassia... It was what Damar needed to hear to break past the old cardassian stubborn superiority complex. And had he not been killed, it is entirely possible that he would have become the leader of a new Cardassia that fully owned up to its own atrocities against Bajor for more than a half a century of domination.

    It is clear that Garak fully understood these things, from his last conversation with Dr. Bashir. "We are guilty as charged." With the irony weighing so heavily upon him, if he were to be dragged into a leadership role, he would have called for formal apology to Bajor. And Kai Kira would have called for acceptance of it, and while it would be a long journey, the two worlds would finally be on the road to true peace and understanding. And with Bajor a Federation protectorate, humanitarian aid to Cardassia would come easily and quickly. As to the Klingon Empire... Even they cannot deny that with the Cardassians turning against the dominion, the alpha quadrant alliance would never have been able to reach Cardassia Prime. So while they likely would not be so quick with relief resources, their presence would provide added security and protection.

    In a way Garak was sort of a George Washington in that Washington did not want to be involved in the politics of a newly forming government. When the Revolution ended he just wanted to go back home and get back to leading a simple life. But because of the role he played, the people called for him to be the leader. And so he became the first American president. Because of what he did, not because of who he was before he did it.

    I think that if the Cardassian people called for Garak to lead, then he would step up and do so. In spite of what correspondence he may have written to a certain Chief Medical officer of Deep Space Nine.
    I have no snarky remarks to make, at this time...
  • nefarius2nefarius2 Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Well the Constitution was also an iconic ship and yet they still made it a promo ship.

    That's different. When they made the Romulan faction, they were able to bring in Iconic ships for leveling, the D'Deridex and the T'liss. Feds have access to the T1 Connie (via C-Store) and the T2 Connie Refit (by default).

    If they make a Cardassian faction (which I don't see that OR a Dominion faction whatsoever for the reason I am about to highlight) they would not be able to bring in the Galor or Keldon as leveling ships. Why?

    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    In fact... while the exact time and Dev eludes me right now... it was said that they would NOT make a playable faction whose ships were put into a Lockbox. They even admitted they shot themselves in the foot with the Cardassian Lockbox.

    Also... if someone was to bring up the argument about adding factions/subfactions into the game through expansions...

    We have an established pattern.

    Legacy of Romulus - Added Romulans
    Delta Rising - No new faction
    Agents of Yesterday - Added TOS Fed
    Victory is Life - If pattern holds... NO NEW FACTION
    Unknown expansion - If pattern holds... possible faction/subfaction

    There is also one other factor to consider.
    The cost of making a whole new set of ships and specialist ships for said new faction. Not only would Cryptic have to make an entirely new set of basic ships, they would have to retroactively create ALL the T6 specialist ships. Full set of Intel, Command, Pilot, Temporal, and Miracle Worker ships.

    At this point... a full faction I don't see happening, even if done in the style of the Romulans. Subfactions such as TOS Feds are more likely as they only have to make a few thematic ships for the subfaction for leveling purposes. Cost wise this would be the better option.

    Well as an owner of a Galor and Keldon ship it would not bother me in the slightest if a Cardassian faction had access to those ships. The whole reason I have them is because I made a Cardassian with the Alien option. To play as a true Cardassian would be a dream come true. (Besides, I really don't see many Galors or Keldons flying around these days. Do you?)

    I also think if anyone who should feel resentment it would be those making Cardassian toons on a Cardassian faction. Seeing those Feddies and Klingons flying around in their Galors and Keldons...it's vile!
  • caltaircaltair Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    At this point I am less excited about the prospects of a Cardasian faction or a Cardasian centric arc, or at least one that you would sugest. What STO suffers from right now is a lack of creativity and new ideas. How many times can we really be expected to supervise, build, and rebuild colonies and civilizations for alien races? Its bordering on the banal. I recently expressed frustration over the latest FE, "Melting Pot," over the repetative nature of us having to build worlds for aliens yet again. Building New Romulus was something we had never experienced in a genuine sense in Star Trek let alone the game. The plight of the Romulan and Reman peoples were central to the plot and their involvement on the galactic stage was pivitol. The next time we help a colony get its footing under it was in Delta Rising when we spent an episode finding a new world for the Talaxians. It was clever given our character's experience building worlds, all we had to do was help the moving trucks, so to speak, get there safely, and it reintroduced us to Neelix and helped get an understanding on the state of the quadrant. At this point we are treading water. Even our character in the last FE experessed something close to fatigue at the repetitive nature of his missions.

    As far as a seperate faction is considered I find it profoundly unlikely. Unless the Cardasians were a part of a larger Dominion faction I don't think there are enough alien options to warrent making a seperate faction. Besides this the majority of the Dominion, Cardassian, and Breen fleets are available as playable ships already for all the exisiting factions. The trend also tends to be for STO's expansions (although this may change at any time) Odd numbered expansions get a new faction. For example the first expansion was Legacy of Romulus in which we got the Romulan Republic as a playable faction. Agents of Yesterday, as the third expansion, gave us the TOS 23rd century Starfleet faction. If you are expecting a Dominion or Cardasian faction from the coming expansion I would not get your hopes up. I'd be welcome to see it happen though.

    All that being said however, the Cardasians have been an underutilized part of the STO story and it would be a welcome sight to see exactly how the Cardasians are recovering from the Dominion War and how they survived the Iconian War. I don't know how exactly they plan on fitting all that into the current mess of a story arc though.

    I completely agree, this building colonies or homeworlds routine is getting old, I hope they do something different with upcoming content. But we definitely do need a lot more to do in the Alpha Quadrant, which is extremely bland in my opinion, so I would welcome almost anything that encourages me to spend time there.

    I think there are plenty of alien options to use in a Cardassian faction though. We have their known allies: Valerians, Klaestron, Xepolites, and Lissepians; plus we could even have a Bajoran race who are Collaborator descendants, and a Cardassian/Bajoran hybrid race. That gives 6 race options for a faction, which isn't bad.

    One thing I don't want to see in a Cardassian faction, however, is the combination of Cardassia with the Dominion. After the bombing of Cardassia Prime there is no way the majority of the Cardassian people would go along with that reunification. The True Way was controversial enough and was limited mostly to tyrannical militants who believed the people betrayed the Dominion, that sort of mentality isn't going to go over well in the general populous. To be honest I would like to see the opposite happen, a Cardassian/Dominion conflict where the Cardassian player fights the Jem'Hadar to get revenge for the destruction and hardship endured during the Dominion War.
    In the content that featured Cardassians, they felt more like they were given a pity invite by the major powers. Sky Rukil basically says pretty much that during the Borg conference on DS9, they have no military so why are they being asked to participate. They feel isolated from the major powers because they have no power and are constantly reminded of that fact everytime they are invited to a crisis conference. It would be great to see them respond with a new military infrastructure to make themselves feel competitive again. Their development could be fueled by seeing the Alliance make friends with the Dominion or by being caught in the middle of a conflict between the Dominion and the Alliance. Either way, I hope to see a Cardassian faction that tries to be separate and independent of either the Federation or the Dominion.

    The ships would be difficult though, and I don't hold out much hope for a Cardassian faction for that reason alone. If a game play option requires a monetary investment from Cryptic we can pretty much guarantee that it won't happen. They have gotten incredibly lax regarding this game over the last few years and are now literally just repeating old content to minimize their bills. But if STO doesn't get a large influx of new radical content soon I think it will probably start to die out.
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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    rattler2 wrote: »
    BECAUSE THEY MADE THEM LOCKBOX SHIPS!!!

    To make their iconic ships Lockbox, then suddenly turn around and give EVERYONE free versions, even if they are inferior in any way, will be seen as stabbing those players who got the lockbox ships in the back, and the forums will burn like the wildfires in California.

    Have not read comments after yours, so if someone said this already... well, I don't really care if they did. ;)
    They could do like the Connie and make the Galor & Keldon lower tier ships for the Cardassian faction. Then they'd not give the lockbox ships any 'completion'. Make em T3 or T4. Not sure why you're assuming they'd be top tier ships.
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 12,557 Arc User
    LEGATE Garrack? But he's just a simple tailor! Seriously, though, I'm hoping for the Cardassian faction pretty much as you describe (although I would LOVE for the return of Sisko to fit into the Gamma Quadrant/Wormhole story).

    He's the Castellan of the Cardassian Union in the novels.
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