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OFFICIAL FEEDBACK THREAD FOR Dranuur Colony Fleet Holding!

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  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,649 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Yeah, just heard about those minigames. Not liking them at all, really.

    If you've only heard of the minigames, then you owe it to yourself to fly all the way out to the colony on tribble to see first hand what an awful user experience this is. Doing it even once a day, let alone multiple times a day, is pretty soul crushing.
  • johnbr216johnbr216 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    I'm able to use my fleet coffers for projects....

    When you click on contribute, you should have a pop up that has 2 tabs, Player / Coffer. Click on Coffer use the slider or number to select the desired resources, and you get filled up. Also Be sure correct permissions for rank have been set.

    tzKwBFG.jpg


    Cryptic Lifetime account since Thursday, January 21, 2010
    2311 days and counting.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 1,019 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    johnbr216 wrote: »
    When you click on contribute, you should have a pop up that has 2 tabs, Player / Coffer.

    thanks @johnbr216. That's what I get for having a look when half asleep then posting. It was the the popup with the second Player / Coffer selection tab I missed.

    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Yeah, just heard about those minigames. Not liking them at all, really.

    If you've only heard of the minigames, then you owe it to yourself to fly all the way out to the colony on tribble to see first hand what an awful user experience this is. Doing it even once a day, let alone multiple times a day, is pretty soul crushing.

    What were they thinking? It's just plain sad to an extent for some, it may be a fleet holding killer (not participating) for others.
    Post edited by protoneous on
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 11,393 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Yeah, just heard about those minigames. Not liking them at all, really.

    If you've only heard of the minigames, then you owe it to yourself to fly all the way out to the colony on tribble to see first hand what an awful user experience this is. Doing it even once a day, let alone multiple times a day, is pretty soul crushing.


    I fear the worst, yes. On the picture he posted, I saw @johnbr216 had 72,157 of those provisions to give (out of a required 11,475 it seems). So, how bad can it be, really?! (Assuming he didn't grind for a month on Tribble).
    2u4ikno.jpg
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,906 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I fear the worst, yes. On the picture he posted, I saw @johnbr216 had 72,157 of those provisions to give (out of a required 11,475 it seems). So, how bad can it be, really?! (Assuming he didn't grind for a month on Tribble).

    On Tribble those things are available at the terminal at Drozana for no other effort but clicking.

    But the mini games on the Colony Holding....my brain didn't wanna comply for more than 1x on 2 different games.

    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • johnbr216johnbr216 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Yeah they are available on the deb console....I've filled my coffers 3 times at this point, all 3 are about 130-140k exp. That's utterly insane. Given in live it'll be 20 hours for each project to complete. Season 20 will be out long before the first fleet gets to colony 5....

    OK Did the math, for the three, to get Morale, Infrastructure, and Renewable Energy up to Teir 5 each requires 250 projects. Each of those projects takes 20 hours. 250 * 20 is over 5000 hours, or 208.3 days.

    Fleets who can manage to make the god awful amount of resources needed to build the colony will still at the earliest if this launches October 2, is almost 7 months, so around next April or May if they hit it.
    Post edited by johnbr216 on
    Cryptic Lifetime account since Thursday, January 21, 2010
    2311 days and counting.
  • ffttfftt Member Posts: 682 Arc User
    johnbr216 wrote: »
    Yeah they are available on the deb console....I've filled my coffers 3 times at this point, all 3 are about 130-140k exp. That's utterly insane. Given in live it'll be 20 hours for each project to complete. Season 20 will be out long before the first fleet gets to colony 5....

    OK Did the math, for the three, to get Morale, Infrastructure, and Renewable Energy up to Teir 5 each requires 250 projects. Each of those projects takes 20 hours. 250 * 20 is over 5000 hours, or 208.3 days.

    Fleets who can manage to make the god awful amount of resources needed to build the colony will still at the earliest if this launches October 2, is almost 7 months, so around next April or May if they hit it.

    I haven't noticed anyone complaining about the time, 208.3 days as you've calculated, as that's in line with a T5 holding. The sanity check is only needed after doing the math on how many of those minigames will have to be ground out.
  • johnbr216johnbr216 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    has anyone got the stats for that Lukari ship thats supposed to be a tier 5 reward yet? If so where is that thing claimed?
    Cryptic Lifetime account since Thursday, January 21, 2010
    2311 days and counting.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,477 Cryptic Developer
    To answer a couple questions that've recently come up:
    • Colony Coffers are working internally, so I'm hoping that any difficulties ya'll are seeing on Tribble will soon be cleared up with future patches, as more data and UI fixes are included in Tribble's builds. It's worth reminding everyone that your Fleet Leader must set permissions (under the Fleet>Settings tab) in order for other members to able to interact with the Coffers, and that this may be part of the difficulties some are having with using this functionality.
    • Coffers cannot function Armada-wide -- the codebase does not exist for this. BUT, any Colony Commodities that you personally earn (via mini-games and invasion gameplay) and have in your inventory may be donated to the projects of your Armada-mates.
    • We're not yet ready to talk about details on the Starship that becomes available @ T5, and it is not currently available on Tribble.

    Ok, now that's out of the way -- it's UPDATE time!

    We just finished finalizing some changes to the Fleet Colony that will be appearing on Tribble soon. There's still a little time for the exact values to change, so I'll just go over the general details of what you're going to see coming down the pipe in the very near term.

    1) Project costs have been re-factored

    There's no easy way to bullet-point out what this means, but it basically boils down to nearly all Dilithium and Colony Commodity costs having changed. This was necessitated by discovering a problem in our cost equations that had to be fixed. Some costs will have gone up compared to their current Tribble values, others will have gone down.

    That said...

    2) Colony Commodity costs for ALL projects have been decreased

    Due to the aforementioned re-factoring, there's not an exact value I can quote to you, but we have decreased these costs across the board. In some places this will be a substantial reduction to costs.

    One thing that's allowed us to reduce these costs is following the player feedback that higher Dilithium costs would be more acceptable than the current high Commodity prices. This made sense to use, so we used this as a trade off that further allowed us to lessen the load on Colony Commodities. In short, Dil Costs have gone up in order to facilitate Commodity costs going down.

    3) Donating Colony Commodities will reward Fleet Credits

    The donation constant will end up being 33 FC per every 10 donated (and they must be donated in batches of 10). These Fleet Credits will be rewarded whether you donate to the Coffer or a Project, from your Inventory. No Fleet Credits are rewarded when donating to a Project from the Coffer, since the person that put those into the Coffer already received their rewards.

    (** This value is still subject to further tuning.)

    4) Automated Gathering is being improved

    The changes being made in this regard will be more dramatic at lower levels. The current value achieved at T5 within a subtrack will remain unchanged, but all values below this will be increased to further offset the time-cost of harvesting Commodities.

    5) Powerboards!

    We recognize that the beautiful map our artists put together is a bit large for casual travel, and so have decided to include the use of Powerboards to aid in travel across the map. We're not 100% certain if this feature will be finished in time for launch, but it will be included. Possibly not until soon after launch, though.

    No Floaters though, sorry. The map is simply not built in a way that allows for this, and attempting to make the sorts of changes that could allow for it is a prohibitive time investment.

    As of right now, Powerboard allowance will not require an Unlock. It will be available immediately with the release of the Fleet Colony.

    ---

    Some of the above changes may appear as early as later today. This list is not exhaustive, either -- there's more coming, including UI improvements, additional improvements/fixes to invasion gameplay, and more! Our hope is that this reflects our willingness to listen to your feedback, and our gratitude for your taking the time to try out this upcoming feature on Tribble.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • velquavelqua Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Nice to see some of the changes. I am particularly glad we are getting to use our powerboards. Is there any chance you can add Duty Officers to the Coffer? One of the things I noticed when building up the holding on Tribble was that 200 overflow slots were not enough to hold all the DOFFs I needed to donate, especially as you move to T4 and T5. I believe 300 would work out fine, but having the coffer available to store DOFFs for projects would be a great help. Thanks. :smile:
    18662390068_f716cd60e3.jpg
  • dukedom01dukedom01 Member Posts: 420 Arc User
    [...]
    • Coffers cannot function Armada-wide -- the codebase does not exist for this. BUT, any Colony Commodities that you personally earn (via mini-games and invasion gameplay) and have in your inventory may be donated to the projects of your Armada-mates.

    [...]

    In short, Dil Costs have gone up in order to facilitate Commodity costs going down.

    [...]

    4) Automated Gathering is being improved

    [...]

    Armada Coffers:
    I am sorry Jeremy but if you say it is not possible I have to say then make it possible. The whole point of armadas was to allow fleets to cooperate. I can see that there is some concern about armadas gaming the autocollect. Let me run the numbers. At original levels you need 61 days of autocollect to break even with the cost of provisions you put in. So with build time at least 71. That leaves a projected 159 days of autocollect worth 75.525 provisions. Put 28k in to get 75k out sounds not so bad on paper. That is the best case scenario though. It is a moot thing at this time anyway. At some point down the line an option to use your fleets coffer to speed up your fellow armadas fleets who are slacking would be desirable. I just mention it 'now' because we both know that in a year when it becomes an issue nobody will have time for that.

    Costs & automated gathering adjustments:
    Just don't blow the dilithium costs out of proportion. From what I saw the colony cost already 'was' a full starbase with the whole provisions collect shebang on top (mind a hefty cut of doffs on the upgrades).
    Ceterum censeo Otha supplendum in praemiis.
  • lopequillopequil Member Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    One thing that's allowed us to reduce these costs is following the player feedback that higher Dilithium costs would be more acceptable than the current high Commodity prices.

    For the big fleets and the alt-farmers maybe. Not so for the rest of us.

    A moot point really since we're never going to make a dent in the new holding anyway; it'll take us until doomsday just to finish the starbase.
    Q9BWcdD.png
  • storulesstorules Member Posts: 2,642 Arc User
    To answer a couple questions that've recently come up:
    • Colony Coffers are working internally, so I'm hoping that any difficulties ya'll are seeing on Tribble will soon be cleared up with future patches, as more data and UI fixes are included in Tribble's builds. It's worth reminding everyone that your Fleet Leader must set permissions (under the Fleet>Settings tab) in order for other members to able to interact with the Coffers, and that this may be part of the difficulties some are having with using this functionality.
    • Coffers cannot function Armada-wide -- the codebase does not exist for this. BUT, any Colony Commodities that you personally earn (via mini-games and invasion gameplay) and have in your inventory may be donated to the projects of your Armada-mates.
    • We're not yet ready to talk about details on the Starship that becomes available @ T5, and it is not currently available on Tribble.

    Ok, now that's out of the way -- it's UPDATE time!

    We just finished finalizing some changes to the Fleet Colony that will be appearing on Tribble soon. There's still a little time for the exact values to change, so I'll just go over the general details of what you're going to see coming down the pipe in the very near term.

    1) Project costs have been re-factored

    There's no easy way to bullet-point out what this means, but it basically boils down to nearly all Dilithium and Colony Commodity costs having changed. This was necessitated by discovering a problem in our cost equations that had to be fixed. Some costs will have gone up compared to their current Tribble values, others will have gone down.

    That said...

    2) Colony Commodity costs for ALL projects have been decreased

    Due to the aforementioned re-factoring, there's not an exact value I can quote to you, but we have decreased these costs across the board. In some places this will be a substantial reduction to costs.

    One thing that's allowed us to reduce these costs is following the player feedback that higher Dilithium costs would be more acceptable than the current high Commodity prices. This made sense to use, so we used this as a trade off that further allowed us to lessen the load on Colony Commodities. In short, Dil Costs have gone up in order to facilitate Commodity costs going down.

    3) Donating Colony Commodities will reward Fleet Credits

    The donation constant will end up being 33 FC per every 10 donated (and they must be donated in batches of 10). These Fleet Credits will be rewarded whether you donate to the Coffer or a Project, from your Inventory. No Fleet Credits are rewarded when donating to a Project from the Coffer, since the person that put those into the Coffer already received their rewards.

    (** This value is still subject to further tuning.)

    4) Automated Gathering is being improved

    The changes being made in this regard will be more dramatic at lower levels. The current value achieved at T5 within a subtrack will remain unchanged, but all values below this will be increased to further offset the time-cost of harvesting Commodities.

    5) Powerboards!

    We recognize that the beautiful map our artists put together is a bit large for casual travel, and so have decided to include the use of Powerboards to aid in travel across the map. We're not 100% certain if this feature will be finished in time for launch, but it will be included. Possibly not until soon after launch, though.

    No Floaters though, sorry. The map is simply not built in a way that allows for this, and attempting to make the sorts of changes that could allow for it is a prohibitive time investment.

    As of right now, Powerboard allowance will not require an Unlock. It will be available immediately with the release of the Fleet Colony.

    ---

    Some of the above changes may appear as early as later today. This list is not exhaustive, either -- there's more coming, including UI improvements, additional improvements/fixes to invasion gameplay, and more! Our hope is that this reflects our willingness to listen to your feedback, and our gratitude for your taking the time to try out this upcoming feature on Tribble.

    Thanks very much for the updates and new changes to this holding taken from players' feedback.

    As put it before:
    johnbr216 wrote: »
    OK Did the math, for the three, to get Morale, Infrastructure, and Renewable Energy up to Teir 5 each requires 250 projects. Each of those projects takes 20 hours. 250 * 20 is over 5000 hours, or 208.3 days...

    Could you tell us how long more or less is an estimate to complete the holding now? I'm sure you guys might have internal numbers but just asking for a an estimate?

    Thanks!​​
    tumblr_ncbngkt24X1ry46hlo1_400.gif
  • dukedom01dukedom01 Member Posts: 420 Arc User
    storules wrote: »
    [...]Could you tell us how long more or less is an estimate to complete the holding now? I'm sure you guys might have internal numbers but just asking for a an estimate?

    The projected completion time is mentioned in my MATH post on page 2. Assuming you have no idle times and no stalling because of missing contributions you could start the first T5 upgrades somewhere around 230 days after beginning construction. Those 230 days do NOT include the four 14 day T5 upgrades you still need to run at that point. It neither includes any project timer decreases nor running xp projects faster than once per day either.
    Ceterum censeo Otha supplendum in praemiis.
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,242 Arc User
    Colony Coffers are working internally, so I'm hoping that any difficulties ya'll are seeing on Tribble will soon be cleared up with future patches, as more data and UI fixes are included in Tribble's builds. It's worth reminding everyone that your Fleet Leader must set permissions (under the Fleet>Settings tab) in order for other members to able to interact with the Coffers, and that this may be part of the difficulties some are having with using this functionality.

    Part of this may be a UI problem. I made sure to check the fleet permissions, but for the life of me, I could not figure out how to contribute to the fleet projects from the coffers; that is, until I read this post by johnbr216.

    https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/13272775/#Comment_13272775

    Maybe, I'm just an idiot or I wasn't paying attention, but I'm pretty sure that many players, like me, completely missed the "Coffer" tab in the "CONTRIBUTE ITEMS" window.

    1) Project costs have been re-factored

    There's no easy way to bullet-point out what this means, but it basically boils down to nearly all Dilithium and Colony Commodity costs having changed. This was necessitated by discovering a problem in our cost equations that had to be fixed. Some costs will have gone up compared to their current Tribble values, others will have gone down.

    Just to be perfectly clear, did you refactor costs only for the Dranuur Colony or did you refactor costs for all the fleet holdings? Should we be expecting the costs on our current projects to change when Season 14 hits Holodeck?

    One thing that's allowed us to reduce these costs is following the player feedback that higher Dilithium costs would be more acceptable than the current high Commodity prices. This made sense to use, so we used this as a trade off that further allowed us to lessen the load on Colony Commodities. In short, Dil Costs have gone up in order to facilitate Commodity costs going down.

    I'm not sure this would acceptable to everyone; I would say it depends greatly on the person and fleet.

    The donation constant will end up being 33 FC per every 10 donated (and they must be donated in batches of 10).

    What happens if the number required is not an exact multiple of 10? Or have the requirements been changed so that they're always an exact multiple of 10? How does this work with the discounts we get from the dilithium mine?

    4) Automated Gathering is being improved

    The changes being made in this regard will be more dramatic at lower levels. The current value achieved at T5 within a subtrack will remain unchanged, but all values below this will be increased to further offset the time-cost of harvesting Commodities.

    I still have no clue how this works. Are the colony provisions automatically dumped into the projects? Into the coffers? When does it happen? What time of day?

    5) Powerboards!

    We recognize that the beautiful map our artists put together is a bit large for casual travel, and so have decided to include the use of Powerboards to aid in travel across the map. We're not 100% certain if this feature will be finished in time for launch, but it will be included. Possibly not until soon after launch, though.

    No Floaters though, sorry. The map is simply not built in a way that allows for this, and attempting to make the sorts of changes that could allow for it is a prohibitive time investment.

    As of right now, Powerboard allowance will not require an Unlock. It will be available immediately with the release of the Fleet Colony.

    This is not really related to the Dranuur Colony, but can we get the water level on Risa fixed? The water used to completely cover my head when I crouched; now, it comes up to about eye-level. I believe they increased the depth of the water before the summer event, but it's still too low.
    Waiting for a programmer ...

    qVpg1km.png
  • ffttfftt Member Posts: 682 Arc User
    dukedom01 wrote: »
    Armada Coffers:
    I am sorry Jeremy but if you say it is not possible I have to say then make it possible. The whole point of armadas was to allow fleets to cooperate. I can see that there is some concern about armadas gaming the autocollect...

    From what I'm reading fleet members can add their provisions to other fleets in the armada if they want and you admit a concern about autocollected provisions from one fleet going to another, so I don't see the big issue here.

  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 8,880 Arc User
    Dilitium was always the end goal. Making it look like it was the will of the masses was the means.

    There is NO way a HOLDING should approach the costs of the Starbase itself whether it be three, five, or ten Tiers. Anything approaching that is just to give people something to do until the Expansion is released. However, people must be willing to engage in the endeavor. Too much of a cost or timeframe may make people just say the heck with it.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,242 Arc User
    Colony Coffers are working internally, so I'm hoping that any difficulties ya'll are seeing on Tribble will soon be cleared up with future patches, as more data and UI fixes are included in Tribble's builds. It's worth reminding everyone that your Fleet Leader must set permissions (under the Fleet>Settings tab) in order for other members to able to interact with the Coffers, and that this may be part of the difficulties some are having with using this functionality.

    After testing this, I have a question: Why does the amount contributed from the coffer decrease with the number of provisions remaining? This makes it very annoying to fill the requirement, because toward the end, you're only contributing a few provisions at a time.

    Some further annoyances:

    1. Why don't the doff boxes purchased from the fleet starbase open automatically like the ones on Drozana?

    2. Can we get civilian doffs added to the starbase vendor?
    Waiting for a programmer ...

    qVpg1km.png
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,477 Cryptic Developer
    frtoaster wrote: »
    After testing this, I have a question: Why does the amount contributed from the coffer decrease with the number of provisions remaining? This makes it very annoying to fill the requirement, because toward the end, you're only contributing a few provisions at a time.

    I'm afraid I don't understand. Can you walk me thru the behavior you're seeing, step by step?

    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • johnbr216johnbr216 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Thank you for responding to our points Borticus!

    1. Will we get to test the Colony T5 ship before it goes live?
    2. Any chance Doffs could be added to the Coffer?
    3. Could you increase the slider purchase option on the dev console for the doffs from 50 to 500 ? My Carple Tunnel would praise the prophets.......

    Kind Regards,

    *update. I see the doff option has been completely replaced by dil. AWESOME! my carple tunnel thanks you, T5 provisions lowered down to 7.650 K, much more reasonable. Thank you. Thank you, Thank you!

    *update 2. Could you pretty pretty please with a tribble and Aldeberan Brandy on Top, set the Dil Slider option to max instead of zero by default?.

    Thanks
    Post edited by johnbr216 on
    Cryptic Lifetime account since Thursday, January 21, 2010
    2311 days and counting.
  • dukedom01dukedom01 Member Posts: 420 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    frtoaster wrote: »
    After testing this, I have a question: Why does the amount contributed from the coffer decrease with the number of provisions remaining? This makes it very annoying to fill the requirement, because toward the end, you're only contributing a few provisions at a time.

    I'm afraid I don't understand. Can you walk me thru the behavior you're seeing, step by step?
      * Check Coffer Tab for acumulated provisions (i.e. 246,160) * Click project to contribute without any provisions in your inventory * Contribute items window should say something like: Contributing 1,500 provisions earns 4,950 fleet credits. * First wrinkle: The summary below says there are 2,461,720 provisions in the coffer. * Second wrinkle: when you hit OK you only contribute 150 provisions.

    Looks pretty straightforward to me what is the culprit here.

    edit: looks like contributing to the coffer has some 'interesting' values displayed too

    edit 2: the 'interesting' values only show up once your fleet has completed the first upgrade. with t0 everything looks normal
    Post edited by dukedom01 on
    Ceterum censeo Otha supplendum in praemiis.
  • johnbr216johnbr216 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    frtoaster wrote: »
    After testing this, I have a question: Why does the amount contributed from the coffer decrease with the number of provisions remaining? This makes it very annoying to fill the requirement, because toward the end, you're only contributing a few provisions at a time.

    I'm afraid I don't understand. Can you walk me thru the behavior you're seeing, step by step?

    I believe frtoaster was talking about this:, I was able to replicate what he was talking about on the coffer tab, and since the update on the player tab. It took several projects before the glitch appeared.

    For me, at this screen shot, the max contribution is around 670 provisions. I close it then it goes back to normal. But I did catch it

    Like dukedom01 pointed out:
    looks like for some reason the coffer tab is reading 2,480,270 mil prov when I have 248,027.

    So some one fat fingered a floating integer perchance? or strange client memory leak?

    zl8Pnt2.jpg
    Cryptic Lifetime account since Thursday, January 21, 2010
    2311 days and counting.
  • johnbr216johnbr216 Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    I found another peculiar behaviour as well. For some reason, when I still have a handfull of provisions in my inventory, Player Donation greys out, and only allows provision donation from the coffer. Is there a min donation limit? if so is this intentional? I've only noticed it since last patch, but, it could have been going earlier, I've just first noticed, and been able to screenshot it for proof.

    Ohh and take notice of the 2.4 million Provisions being reported for the coffer as well.

    z2892lj.jpg
    Post edited by johnbr216 on
    Cryptic Lifetime account since Thursday, January 21, 2010
    2311 days and counting.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,906 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Do you want everyone to play Colony games...and eschew everything else?

    Isn't there enough activities dividing the players attention already?

    There is a new event going every other week along with Admiralty, DOFFing...and, now, special activities for Provisions.

    I mean, there is only so much time for STO in a day.

    Does playing for these Provisions (missions, queues and mini games) net the player any Dilithium, Exp, Fleet Marks, and EC?? And will it be at the same level as other content in the game? Since there won't be time to do anything else.

    And I think THAT is the biggest issue of all....none of us want to spend all our game time "grinding out Colony Provisions" and that is what you are asking us to do here with these requirements being so high.

    Maybe consider adding Colony Provisions as rewards for Endeavors or to the Ferengi Admiralty (who the hell needs GPL, anyways). Or even have special hourly rewards for doing different Rep Queues to drive more people into other things in the game, instead of funneling everyone into one thing, again.

    P.S. Haven't the PvP players been screaming for rewards? Give them Colony Provisions, too....then they can do what they like and still help the fleet.
    Post edited by where2r1 on
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • dukedom01dukedom01 Member Posts: 420 Arc User
    TL:DR version of the following post: The cost for a full colony has been reduced by roughly 2.5million colony provisions (~25%) and increased by roughly 60.5million dilithium (yes sixty, that isn't a typo)


    First: Personally I am flabberghasted at the removal of doff requirements, it wasn't really neccessary on my account, but I am used to contributing hundreds of doffs one at a time from the good old days *shrugs*.

    Now more MATH:

    Let's look at the changes:

    T0 XP project:
    - 12 doffs
    - 1.020 provisions (-45%)
    + 1.650 dilithium

    You are going to run those 9 times for each track = 44,550 dil total
    Thats looks fairly generous. 45% reduction in provisions for a small dilithium addition.

    T1 XP project:
    - 30 doffs
    - 1.088 provisions (-35%)
    + 27.750 dilithium

    12 times each track = 999,000 dil
    That begins to look 'odd'. Still a 35% reduction in provisions but the dilithium jumped significantly.

    T2 XP project:
    - 60 doffs
    - 905 provisions (-17%)
    + 58.570 dilithium

    21 times each track = 3,701,250 dil

    T3 XP project:
    - 130 doffs
    - 850 provisions (-11%)
    + 89.750 dilithium

    42 times each track = 11,308,500 dil

    T4 XP project:
    - 180 doffs
    - 4.095 provisions (-35%)
    + 118.300 dilithium

    125 times each track = 44,362,500 dil

    I agree we can use a few good dilithium sinks but that seems a bit excessive. That's 'somewhere' in the range of 80 million (~4 times previous values) dilithium to completion now? And we still have to worry about ~7.35 million colony provisions?

    By the way nice move on removing the autocollect values from the holding summary, cannot have me calculating that again can we?

    Let's compare the equipment provisions for a change shall we?

    T0 project:
    - 3? doffs
    - 970 provisions (-57%)
    + 4450 dilithium

    T1 project:
    - 4? doffs
    - 1,874 provisions (-60%)
    + 7,355 dilithium

    T2 project:
    - 11? doffs
    - 6,580 provisions (-72%)
    + 16,600 dilithium

    T3 project:
    - 18? doffs
    - 5,350 provisions (-58%)
    + 25,550 dilithium

    T4 project:
    - 22? doffs
    - 7,735 provisions (-62%)
    + 33,350 dilithium

    T5 project:
    - 26? doffs
    - 10,072 provisions (-65%)
    + 41,000 dilithium

    Overall equipment provisioning projects look fine to me. Their dilithium costs roughly doubles but they have significantly higher colony provision reductions 'and' generate equipment tokens.

    Upgrades:
    For obvious reasons I did not check 'every' upgrade again but the projects I had access to (subtracks 1-3 + colony 1) show a 20% reduction in required provisions with a negligible increase in dilithium (compared to the rest).

    To summarize:
    Upgrades = Ok changes
    Equipment provisioning = Better than I expected
    Experience projects = WHAT THE FRAK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!
    Ceterum censeo Otha supplendum in praemiis.
  • ffttfftt Member Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    dukedom01 wrote: »
    ...and increased by roughly 60.5million dilithium (yes sixty, that isn't a typo)...
    Or 7562.5 fleet member days @8k dil/day. So if 20 members could dump every scrap of dilithium they refined it would take 379 days, a fleet with only 5 active members 1513 days (>4 years with no dilithium for any other thing but the holding :'( ). Definitely a mega/large-fleet requirement, small/micro-fleets need not apply.

    EDIT: On the bright side at least all of our time won't be spent behind the minigames.
    Post edited by fftt on
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,477 Cryptic Developer
    edited September 2017
    dukedom01 wrote: »
    By the way nice move on removing the autocollect values from the holding summary, cannot have me calculating that again can we?

    Nothing insidious here. We're moving those values to a place in the UI where they can be automatically generated instead of being entered by hand as text, in order to assure accuracy in case of future tuning. In a future update, the current automation value will appear on your fleet's Coffer tab.
    johnbr216 wrote: »
    I believe frtoaster was talking about this..... (explanation removed)

    Thanks for the additional information. We'll definitely check this out. It looks like some recent updates to Commodity donations didn't all make it into this most recent patch. At a glance, it appears to be half-complete work. This strange behavior is a result of our change to Commodities needing to be donated in batches of 10, and rewarding 33 Fleet Credits for every 10 turned in.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • mcevergreenmcevergreen Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Hi everyone,
    at first, I would like to say that the new fleet holding looks really great. I play since 2013, but, for the first ever, I went to the tribble to check out the new fleet holding in advance. I have to say that the map looks really nice and I love the amount of details. It shows that a lot of time and work went into it.

    Having said that, I have to admit that I am a bit worried. We are truly not a small fleet. We are a medium-sized German speaking fleet, maxed out at fleet level 65. When the new fleet holding goes live on holodeck, we can only focus on the new holding and don't need to worry, for example about completing K-13. A luxury which the majority of existing fleets will not have, to my knowledge.

    We are also a proud member of an armada with a level of 808, at the moment. So, in summary, we are in a good environment, enjoying a 20 % reduction reduction in dilithium costs.
    To be honest, I didn't count the amount of provisions and mini-games which are needed to complete the new fleet holding. Reading the latest patch notes (from the 27th of September), I noticed that the project requirements have changed quite a bit. As some other players pointed out before, a substantial amount of dilithium is now needed, on a daily basis, to advance the new fleet holding. While in the beginning these costs seem not to be too much, with higher tiers, these costs grow relatively quickly.

    In short, as a fleet leader and ambassador to the armada, I see it difficult to imagine how to run three projects requiring 80-100k dilithium every day. I want to be sure that I am not complaining to farm resources with my fleet members, however, even for a medium-sized fleet (50 players with 200 chars), these requirements seem to be difficult to achieve. I would like to point out that we have fleet members which are new to the game and still need their dilithium, for example to upgrade their gear. As a fleet leader, I know that dilithium is a limited resource which you can ask from fleet members. My fleet mates said that it wouldn't be a problem to farm provisions, but spending all their dilithium into fleet projects would be. In this way, the original requirements seemed to be easier to manage for us.

    I appreciate that you guys are listening to our feedback and I hope you will continue to do that in order to make the game more fun and enjoyable for everyone of us.
    I speak here on behalf of my fleet, many old and new players who are looking forward to discover everything what the new fleet holding has to offer.

    Please, could we have two types of projects, instead of a "one type of project fits all needs"-solution? One which needs more provisions, doffs, EC, maybe even GPL and, thus, takes more gaming time - in order to farm the resources. And, one which needs less input of resources and, thus, less time, but, therefore dilithium. At least, we would have the option to choose which way we would like to go.

    In contrast, I would like to point out that the XP projects on the starbase do not need provisions or dilithium. They need a lot of doffs at higher tiers, yes, but still no dilithium or provisions. Having now the continuous need of both seems truely a bit too much.

    Please, I would be very grateful if we would have options. Options to choose from which resources we need to get to advance the new fleet holding. Also, another opportunity to adjust requirements, is to reduce the XP earned from 1,200 to 1,000 XP (as for the projects of the starbase which do not need dilithium).

    I am sure that satisfying all the different needs of different players is not an easy task. Also, people have different goals in the game and are in fleets at different stages (some are new, some are maxed out).
    I would suggest that having different projects and, thus, different options to choose from would help to address the concerns of people in a better way. Having one option to choose from will not make everyone happy, I am afraid.

    Again, I would like to thank the team for the great work on the upcoming content. My fleet members and me are excited to check out the new content soon and looking forward to the 3rd of October, when season 14 goes live on holodeck.
    Post edited by mcevergreen on
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