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Why was the Jupiter made as a carrier instead of a dreadnought?

avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
Since playing Starbase Fleet Defense for the first time as a KDF toon I encountered the USS Raleigh which at first seemed to be the Jupiter carrier until at closer look seemed a bit differently designed, I looked it up and found out it was a Jupiter Class Dreadnought on STO gamepedia: http://sto.gamepedia.com/Jupiter_Class_Dreadnought

I am wondering why the dev's decided to make the player one a carrier instead of a dreadnought while not leaving in the classic design as an optional choice for that ship. I really wouldn't mind the original dreadnought variant as playable as it seems much more interesting to me.

Comments

  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    in case you haven't noticed, a LOT of NPC ships have different classes from their playable versions

    just a few of the more recent ones i can recall, but they've been doing this for years

    NPC herald quas: regular cruiser - player herald quas: flight-deck cruiser
    NPC herald vonph: battleship - player herald vonph: dreadnought carrier

    NPC na'kuhl tadaari: frigate - player na'kuhl tadaari: raider
    NPC na'kuhl daemosh: destroyer - player na'kuhl daemosh - science vessel (MAJOR change there)
    NPC na'kuhl acheros: battleship - player na'kuhl acheros: battlecruiser

    NPC sphere builder arehbes: frigate - player sphere builder arehbes: destroyer
    NPC sphere builder edoulg: cruiser - player sphere builder edoulg: science vessel (another major change)
    NPC sphere builder denuos: battleship - player sphere builder denuos: dreadnought carrier

    and i fully expect them to do the same with the tzenkethi ships when THOSE are released​​
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  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    Because the Feds already have a dreadnought, and the Jupiter's weird design seemed appropriate for a carrier.
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  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    There's no reason why they couldn't have two, and the Jupiter could've been a tactical dreadnought which the Fed's don't currently have.
  • firstaid#5667 firstaid Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    The two Jupiters are essentially completely different ships. The name 'Jupiter' was pretty much just tacked-on to the carrier after the community voted in its design; which was chosen mostly due to its similarity to the npc Jupiter.

    In addition, at the time there was a ton of T6 cruisers and no T6 carriers, so the Jupiter Carrier was made to fill that role.
  • gannadenegannadene Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    Feds otherwise would have no carriers at all, aside from the T5 catbus, which isn't a Fed design anyway, nor is it t6.

    The real question is, when is the Jupiter getting relabeled as a Science Carrier with the addition of a Tactical and Engineer variant to kitbash with?
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    gannadene wrote: »
    Feds otherwise would have no carriers at all, aside from the T5 catbus, which isn't a Fed design anyway, nor is it t6.
    Didn't the Heavy Escort Carrier predate the Jupiter? It's limited to T5-U, but it's still a Carrier.

    Speaking of Federation designs, shouldn't anything designed by a Federation member world technically count as a Federation design?
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    tyler002 wrote: »
    Didn't the Heavy Escort Carrier predate the Jupiter? It's limited to T5-U, but it's still a Carrier.

    Speaking of Federation designs, shouldn't anything designed by a Federation member world technically count as a Federation design?

    The Heavy Escort Carrier is NOT a FULL carrier though. Its an ESCORT Carrier.

    And... technically. However member worlds are still able to field their own native designs for home system defense, so Vulcans still have D'Kyrs, Andorians still have Kumaris, and Caitians still have Atrox Carriers.
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    The Alita is the T6 Federation HEC. It was part of a Cross-faction HEC Bundle. The Jupiter was designed by player voting from sets of three choices of various parts of the Ship. The KDF and Romulans did not get a T6 full carrier equivalent to the Jupiter or otherwise.

    There was typical Forum speculation at the time of the Jupiter's release (Thanksgiving 2016) that this was Cryptic's way of giving people a Jupiter they were clamoring for without having to develop a playable Jupiter Dreadnought.
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  • gannadenegannadene Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    tyler002 wrote: »
    gannadene wrote: »
    Feds otherwise would have no carriers at all, aside from the T5 catbus, which isn't a Fed design anyway, nor is it t6.
    Didn't the Heavy Escort Carrier predate the Jupiter? It's limited to T5-U, but it's still a Carrier.

    Speaking of Federation designs, shouldn't anything designed by a Federation member world technically count as a Federation design?

    It's an escort. Which can just so happen to haul around a single bay of fighters. There's quite a few of those sorts of ships in the game, but they aren't carriers - big, slow warships that deploy lots of little guys.

    And no to the second question. There's a distinction between private military and coalition designed vessels in canon, and just in terms of physical design. That'd sort of be like saying a British tank belongs to the UN because it's a member country. The Federation is responsible for its own assets, and there are some non-Federation Terran, Andorian, Vulcan, etc designs. It even says in its description that it was loaned to the Federation to fill a hole in their asset deployment. E.G., they didn't have any carriers. More importantly than all that, it doesn't look Federation. And if you want to fly around in a carrier that actually looks like a Federation design, no amount of privately loaned vessels they label as fed-deployed is going to fill that hole.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    I could go for the devs adding the old Jupiter model as a skin we can use, or as parts to use on our Jupiter carrier. It would be nice to have a more tactical an even engineering based fed carrier, but whether that should be developed from the Jupiter design, or as a stand alone ship design is abit of a personal opinion. I would not mind having more parts for my carrier, even if they merely either took two of the runner ups from the event, or had us vote again on the remaining choices for the next two carrier ships. Yet seeing what kind of new tactical or engineering focused design they could come up with is appealing too.

    Now where the idea of making the old or a updated Jupiter dreadnought design into a tactical dreadnought sounds quite weird to me. As to me the Jupiter model feels more like a engineering heavy dreadnought in how it is built, while to me the Gal-X always felt more like a tactical dreadnought, and the Odyssey to me felt more like a science dreadnought though that is personal opinion.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    avoozuul wrote: »
    Why was the Jupiter made as a carrier instead of a dreadnought?

    Cause the Fed's were whiny babies that didn't have a carrier! And the Dev's just wanted the QQ to stop. >:)
  • lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    Well never asked for a Federation carrier, they'd said they weren't going to do one, so it never occurred to ask for one, I was too busy playing the KDF side.

    But then I voted on which design to pick for the Jupiter and fell in love with the final product, and Callisto light defiants, er I mean light escorts, and now I primarily play my Federation toon.
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,635 Arc User
    There was at least a glimmer of hope that the specs would also be voted on, not just the exterior looks, on the forums at the time. If the option had been given, I think that the layout would've been pretty different to what it got BOff wise, as well different layout for consoles and stats. Instead we got a really lackluster BOff arrangement, IMO (really, one Lt. Commander at T6?), paired with a science carrier with no science specials (Sensor Analyst, Secondary Deflector being popular requests) and a turnrate that was rather lacking. I and a few others were really hoping to have the option to vote for a Dreadnought Carrier Tactical style layout, like the Narcine and JHDC had. I don't how the voting would've gone with the suggested options floating around, but I don't think it'd be what it is now if players had been given any options in that regard. They basically hoped that the design itself (they had a pretty good idea that a Jupiter-style design would win since the beginning) would sell the thing, and it did... for about two days, until it started coming to light that it really didn't fit player wants and the pets were horribly bugged.
  • mercurythefirstmercurythefirst Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    gannadene wrote: »
    The real question is, when is the Jupiter getting relabeled as a Science Carrier with the addition of a Tactical and Engineer variant to kitbash with?

    Carriers are a science class of ship. Engineers have flight deck cruisers and dreadnoughts, and tacs have HECs. Even alien factions more or less follow that doctrine. And it makes sense to have the class that is supposed to support vessels have the real carriers, as sending out 12 fighters to "meat grind" with rather than heal their shields and provide crowd control as needed is not very ethical. So at least the Federation wouldn't do it.
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  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,635 Arc User
    gannadene wrote: »
    The real question is, when is the Jupiter getting relabeled as a Science Carrier with the addition of a Tactical and Engineer variant to kitbash with?

    Carriers are a science class of ship. Engineers have flight deck cruisers and dreadnoughts, and tacs have HECs. Even alien factions more or less follow that doctrine. And it makes sense to have the class that is supposed to support vessels have the real carriers, as sending out 12 fighters to "meat grind" with rather than heal their shields and provide crowd control as needed is not very ethical. So at least the Federation wouldn't do it.

    I don't recall anyone tossing out heals to the Federation fighters in DS9's 'Sacrifice of Angels'.

    Also, wouldn't it be just as logical to provide non-healing support? With a Tactical Commander, you can lay out quite a bit covering fire, debuff enemies, and draw fire to the thicker carrier rather than the fighters. As for healboating, Engineer Commander actually has castable heals at all ranks, whereas Science heals only go up to Lt. Comm.
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