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Should the Devs roll back the new queuing system to the old version?

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  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 824 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    Although I strongly feel this UI was released before it was ready and should go back to Tribble to be finished and polished. They launched it to Holodeck and we are stuck with it.

    So boy's and girls it sucks and we should NEVER be placed in this position, but its a case of having to persevere with it whilst they take many months to iron out all the bugs and add new features. Something that should have been done on Tribble (that's what its there for) instead of releasing this broken pile of tartar sauce.



    That's what it seems like to me too.

    I'm very much stuck with the queues at present outside of farming Romulan Patrols (Space Battezones are to slow for dil grind and pay poorly).
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  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Nope, and here's why:

    every change that has ever happened in this game, since launch, has had this exact poll, with these exact results.

    Protesting is not useful and will not generate positive change.

    Pointing out and reporting things that clearly don't work? bugs, things that should display but aren't? reporting these IS useful, or at least removes the excuse of "They hate everything so **** it."

    'I don't think my doing things will make any difference so I'll do nothing at all'... Or you could make the point that the devs don't listen to their players, continually make poor judgement calls, frequently release content that they shouldn't because it doesn't actually work as intended, etc, etc. At least that way when the inevitable 'oh, but we value your input' bs floats around again you can literally point at what you've said previously and ask seriously why they don't act on those words.

    I'd rather be ineffectual than defeatist, but that's just me.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 6,445 Community Moderator
    No, I prefer the new queue system
    Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.
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  • tygerzztygerzz Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    Right now the new UI for ques is just horribleness x10, so slow to find the que change the difficulty then refind the que check a box repeat for a few ques then que up 3 or 4 in a batch, it's a 5 minute prosess the use to take 30 seconds max. Can it be fixed sure but will it be, don't hold your breath, my gut says a month at the min, probably 2
  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.

    That I can agree with but it doesn't get away from the fact that you based your decision and comments on a factor that wasn't involved in the given topic and even taking that into consideration are now overlooking some of the good ideas which exist here.

    One of the major improvements that has come from the change and nearly everyone seems to agree upon is the ability to filter by reward. What's generally annoying people is the convoluted manner which which queueing now takes place and their continually having to apply and reapply difficulty settings, along with the inability to retain an at a glance overview of the queues you're interested in. By your comment though it seems that these suggestions would only come up in a topic which is worded differently, clearly this isn't the case as supporters and detractors both voice the opinions given the topic, regardless of it's bias.

    So. How can we improve the PvE queue menu system? Revert it back to the old one. Instant improvement.
    If they then want to give the old system a spit-shine with some new visuals and take the main positive from the current iteration by adding filters, I think the majority here would agree they'd love that. Certainly, going on the various comments in this and other threads, the in game chat, out of game chat apps and so on, that would seem to be the case.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • wylonuswylonus Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    new version is just more confusing and more split up, all i see it was "moved to this and there, and way over there" mess up Que list.

    proposal would be a simple adjustments by making some of them into episodic missions, and put some tougher ques that are outdated and modified for all new "Event" Ques just like Neverwinter's CTA weekend events. some episode missions need some reps since newer players werent able to earn if there was no group que'ing.
    devs need to phase out older and not often used ques, each newer ques open or added get further more spliting up the grouping who they want to do for reps and some decent rewards.

    not many likes this new que format. Noted to devs, Try again and start over with more fresh format and easy pickable ques. this new format is just another "1st strike". players want to see full Que list but not want to see "there is or over there" mess up list that doesnt look right.
    what are you guys trying with ques? by the reps? it need 2 cluster rep list, Ground and Space.
    if the ground que isnt popular, then it need to be move to episode mission or "CTA event" as new "Red Alert" weekend version.
    players love to get bonus marks on weekends from Red Alerts events.
    devs took away hourly and took out cluster zones and made original red alerts as a joke. we need "amp upped" new red alert events, with cool new console prizes and extra rep marks.
    New Red Alerts should have 5 days, starting on Thursday to early Tuesday and add Ferengi red alert merchants or use existing ferengi npc vendors.
  • dragnridrdragnridr Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.

    A point of a poll like this is SHOWING what the players want. The obviously don't like the new queue, so it would be best to roll it back to the style before. The design before was CLEANER and SIMPLER. Now it has become overly complicated and unwieldy.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,909 Arc User
    I just want the view Cooldown button back

    That was a very nice feature.

    I think I can understand some of the reasoning behind the UI changes. It actually makes it less cluttered so its easier to find specific queues that reward specific marks. Although I think they need to tweak the difficulty selection a bit. Before we had this massive list and generally you had to remember what rewarded what. Now... we can search by mark type.

    So I guess I'm in the middle. I'd like to see some of the features of the old UI like the Daily Mark Cooldown, while improving the current UI to be less clunky.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 6,892 Arc User
    No, I prefer the new queue system
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I just want the view Cooldown button back

    That was a very nice feature.

    I think I can understand some of the reasoning behind the UI changes. It actually makes it less cluttered so its easier to find specific queues that reward specific marks. Although I think they need to tweak the difficulty selection a bit. Before we had this massive list and generally you had to remember what rewarded what. Now... we can search by mark type.

    So I guess I'm in the middle. I'd like to see some of the features of the old UI like the Daily Mark Cooldown, while improving the current UI to be less clunky.

    There is room for improvement, but this new UI allows golden oldies like the gorn minefield to be easily found and pop quite often now. Add to it that it is easier to queue for specific rewards and i can give this new UI easily a passing grade.

    Still room for improvement, but that's always there.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    Although highly unlikely they will be even listening to our complaints and concerns, let alone do anything i'd like the old version back.

    The new UI doesn't have any of the functionality of the old version, meaning we don't have something as good as that which went before.
    And it also seems to be frankly, ridiculously more clicky-intensive and generally less intuitive to use. I can easily believe some players when confronted with it just log off, rather than sit in a possibly empty queue for god-knows how long waiting, waiting, waiting. A lack of filters, too many clicks required and lack of info which is desirable (cooldowns, players numbers) is seriosuly off-putting.

    And why, Cryptic, are you forcing what it clearly a UI aimed at console jockeys onto the PC players? We don't need their sort of UI systems because we have access to ......shock horror, a mouse and keyboard.

    And finally.....where the hell is your QA department and why do you bother paying them? Clearly this was not ready for general release.
    In fact, seeing as we the players are now acting as you QA team, how about you pay us for that service we are providing you?
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  • tilartatilarta Member Posts: 1,710 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    I can't stand the new queue system.
    So I voted for the old system to be restored.

    Judging from the results so far, 71% want the old queue system back.
    So if it's not restored, we'd have to ask why it wasn't done, given the above poll feedback.

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    No, I prefer the new queue system
    Because we're not the bosses.
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 6,892 Arc User
    No, I prefer the new queue system
    tilarta wrote: »

    Judging from the results so far, 71% want the old queue system back.
    So if it's not restored, we'd have to ask why it wasn't done, given the above poll feedback.

    First of all the forum community does not represent the entire community, merely a small fraction of it.
    Secondly, the forum community complaints about everything and the kitchen sink so this is hardly a surprise.
    Third, the forum community tends to dislike changes so even a godlike new UI would have received complaints.

    The devs are probably smart enough to see this poll and the uproar for what it is: hot air.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    questerius wrote: »
    tilarta wrote: »

    Judging from the results so far, 71% want the old queue system back.
    So if it's not restored, we'd have to ask why it wasn't done, given the above poll feedback.

    First of all the forum community does not represent the entire community, merely a small fraction of it.
    Secondly, the forum community complaints about everything and the kitchen sink so this is hardly a surprise.
    Third, the forum community tends to dislike changes so even a godlike new UI would have received complaints.

    The devs are probably smart enough to see this poll and the uproar for what it is: hot air.

    I can't tell if this is just the tail end of people crying wolf or not. You're basically saying that because other people have complained about things unjustly (in your eyes) that you believe that this specific issue contains nothing to complain about? That's a non-argument and you know it. So what if people have complained about other topics, so what if the topic headers are filled with hyperbole, so what if the devs ignore their player base... Actually, wait, that last one is kind of important...

    Specific to this thread though, you believe that the new UI is in fact superior to the old one, correct? Then let's keep this where it should be, within those boundaries.
    To reiterate previous points then:
    • There is at least one very good thing about this new system, and that's the rewards list having been extended out for the missions.
    • Having them listed down the side and be unable to view multiple missions with different rewards is a poor choice to display the missions. This could have been easily avoided with a column filter in the old view.
    • The unwieldy difficulty settings need to be changed back, even if that means listing all missions at all difficulties within a given reward type. Again, this could have easily been sorted by providing a column filter, in both the old and new style UI
    • The lack of bonus marks timer is a pain and could easily be reimplemented even within the new style UI with the addition of a button for it. Why it was dropped at all seems to be a mystery.
    • The countdown to mission launch popup needs to be brought back, even if it states that the mission will launch when all players have accepted the mission so you know you're about to launch and don't transfer maps (which results in leaver penalty and other issues as I've already discovered myself)

    Finally, I don't think you can reasonably state that the minority of players who enter the forums and take part in polls such as this can be arbitrarily ignored by way of simple player numbers vs vocal numbers. These are the people, yourself included, who feel strongly enough about the game and wish for it to improve to the point where they put in the effort to have those opinions and suggestions put forward perhaps even at the risk of alienating themselves from those who have opposing views. You'll probably find that it is within this minority of players who care so much about this game that Cryptics beloved Foundry developers will also be found. I'm not suggesting that non-forum goers don't count, but these are the people who will typically know more about the game and be willing to help out others and who will in turn have a greater impact and reach than those who simply keep playing. If they're turning around by a majority and saying that something isn't working, it's worth listening to (not that Cryptic seemingly does unless it's on Reddit...)

    UI, specific to what we're seeing here isn't just a big topic for the devs to get right because everyone uses it, but is also an important topic for players to have their say in, especially something as inherent and central to gameplay as the PvE queues which everyone uses to some degree. Quite literally, that queue has possibly the furthest reaching feel for the game that players experience and right now it's saying to a lot of players that this game is convoluted, unwieldy, mired with inane and unnecessary choices, and quite frankly riddled with issues.

    I'm willing to bet that if you gave every player in the game the ability to use the two queues next to each other and give a simple choice of preference over which queue is better, faster and easier to use, the older UI would win out overall every single time.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • tmassxtmassx Member Posts: 720 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    This new system is half-backed. Add bonus marks countdown timer, difficulty filter (i really don't care how many people is queued in normal), possibility to view all queues in one window, fix pop-up and than we can be a friends.
    logo_seperate21.png

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,909 Arc User
    daiph wrote: »
    I can't tell if this is just the tail end of people crying wolf or not. You're basically saying that because other people have complained about things unjustly (in your eyes) that you believe that this specific issue contains nothing to complain about? That's a non-argument and you know it. So what if people have complained about other topics, so what if the topic headers are filled with hyperbole, so what if the devs ignore their player base... Actually, wait, that last one is kind of important...

    Specific to this thread though, you believe that the new UI is in fact superior to the old one, correct? Then let's keep this where it should be, within those boundaries.
    To reiterate previous points then:
    • There is at least one very good thing about this new system, and that's the rewards list having been extended out for the missions.
    • Having them listed down the side and be unable to view multiple missions with different rewards is a poor choice to display the missions. This could have been easily avoided with a column filter in the old view.
    • The unwieldy difficulty settings need to be changed back, even if that means listing all missions at all difficulties within a given reward type. Again, this could have easily been sorted by providing a column filter, in both the old and new style UI
    • The lack of bonus marks timer is a pain and could easily be reimplemented even within the new style UI with the addition of a button for it. Why it was dropped at all seems to be a mystery.
    • The countdown to mission launch popup needs to be brought back, even if it states that the mission will launch when all players have accepted the mission so you know you're about to launch and don't transfer maps (which results in leaver penalty and other issues as I've already discovered myself)

    Finally, I don't think you can reasonably state that the minority of players who enter the forums and take part in polls such as this can be arbitrarily ignored by way of simple player numbers vs vocal numbers. These are the people, yourself included, who feel strongly enough about the game and wish for it to improve to the point where they put in the effort to have those opinions and suggestions put forward perhaps even at the risk of alienating themselves from those who have opposing views. You'll probably find that it is within this minority of players who care so much about this game that Cryptics beloved Foundry developers will also be found. I'm not suggesting that non-forum goers don't count, but these are the people who will typically know more about the game and be willing to help out others and who will in turn have a greater impact and reach than those who simply keep playing. If they're turning around by a majority and saying that something isn't working, it's worth listening to (not that Cryptic seemingly does unless it's on Reddit...)

    UI, specific to what we're seeing here isn't just a big topic for the devs to get right because everyone uses it, but is also an important topic for players to have their say in, especially something as inherent and central to gameplay as the PvE queues which everyone uses to some degree. Quite literally, that queue has possibly the furthest reaching feel for the game that players experience and right now it's saying to a lot of players that this game is convoluted, unwieldy, mired with inane and unnecessary choices, and quite frankly riddled with issues.

    I'm willing to bet that if you gave every player in the game the ability to use the two queues next to each other and give a simple choice of preference over which queue is better, faster and easier to use, the older UI would win out overall every single time.

    Quest isn't wrong though. The forums hate change with a passion. And Quest has ALSO said that yes, the new UI has room for improvement, just as I have.

    The ONLY reason people may have navigated the old UI faster is because they memorized where everything is. The new one isn't perfect, I'll give you that. However it DOES make it easier to go after specific mark types without having to remember what gives what (As the old UI generally only said "choice of marks") by categorizing each one by primary mark type. So if you want, say Dyson Marks, just tell the UI I want Dyson Marks and ONLY the Dyson Mark queues will appear. It also makes it less cluttered by not showing EVERY SINGLE QUEUE IN THE GAME on one menu. Yea it might mean a few more clicks, but honestly what's a couple seconds?

    Is it perfect? No. Not by a long shot. Can it be improved? Yes. The main thing is definitely the Daily Mark Bonus Cooldown.
    But remember that with every major change there will be bugs, such as the heads up that a queue popped. I've noticed so far that ground ones seem to go off without warning, while space ones generally have a heads up.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Quest isn't wrong though. The forums hate change with a passion. And Quest has ALSO said that yes, the new UI has room for improvement, just as I have.

    I'm actually not going to argue this, generally speaking people hate change never mind it being specific to forums. But this isn't just about 'improvement', and I'll continue that after keeping the context of the remainder of your reply:
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The ONLY reason people may have navigated the old UI faster is because they memorized where everything is

    Bullcrud. Learning the alphabet is something that the vast majority of us do at a young age, and that's how the queue was organised unless you hit one of the column headers to resort the list. Sure, some people have issues like Dyslexia and so forth but ultimately, you didn't have to learn where everything is and you could find it remarkably easily and quickly.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The new one isn't perfect, I'll give you that. However it DOES make it easier to go after specific mark types without having to remember what gives what (As the old UI generally only said "choice of marks") by categorizing each one by primary mark type. So if you want, say Dyson Marks, just tell the UI I want Dyson Marks and ONLY the Dyson Mark queues will appear. It also makes it less cluttered by not showing EVERY SINGLE QUEUE IN THE GAME on one menu. Yea it might mean a few more clicks, but honestly what's a couple seconds?

    Is it perfect? No. Not by a long shot. Can it be improved? Yes. The main thing is definitely the Daily Mark Bonus Cooldown.
    But remember that with every major change there will be bugs, such as the heads up that a queue popped. I've noticed so far that ground ones seem to go off without warning, while space ones generally have a heads up.

    I agree that neither is perfect, but when it comes down to improvements, the older UI only needed the rewards to be expanded next to each mission under the 'rewards column' and have filters in the column headers. Literally two changed and it would've had all the functionality of the new UI in addition to being a much leaner, cleaner and faster interface all over.

    The newer UI however needs to cut down on jumping between sections quite so much, should have difficulties separated out or able to be set to a specific level (whether general level pulled from your difficulty settings under 'in progress' or just remembered from the last time you changed it), to do away with that stupid checkboxing and it needs the popup returned. The latter of which I can say I've had it literally throw me into a space mission without a single warning given. Oh, and the marks CD timer...

    So really. 2 changes to get the updated functionality and cleanliness vs 4 issues which MIGHT be resolved at some point. Maybe. If Cryptic even cares and don't consider it to be 'as intended' already.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,283 Arc User
    No, I prefer the new queue system
    If you're in longer wait missions you can't even see how many others are queued as it reverts back to the beginner option which is useless. :s
    got a screenshot? since that sounds different than what I see.
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  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    If you're in longer wait missions you can't even see how many others are queued as it reverts back to the beginner option which is useless. :s
    got a screenshot? since that sounds different than what I see.

    It happens if you leave the given 'mark type' section from one to another, it automatically reverts to 'normal' difficulty so you have to reset the difficulty to the queue you're actually in for you to check the status of how may players are actually waiting with you.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,909 Arc User
    daiph wrote: »
    Bullcrud. Learning the alphabet is something that the vast majority of us do at a young age, and that's how the queue was organised unless you hit one of the column headers to resort the list. Sure, some people have issues like Dyslexia and so forth but ultimately, you didn't have to learn where everything is and you could find it remarkably easily and quickly.

    Which falls under "Memorized where everything is". Alphabet aside, knowing where it is on the list means you just scroll down to that section. But the list has been getting longer for years, and sometimes you might forget exactly what gives what.
    Literally two changed and it would've had all the functionality of the new UI in addition to being a much leaner, cleaner and faster interface all over.
    How is having every single queue thrown in our face in a LONG list leaner?
    The newer UI however needs to cut down on jumping between sections quite so much, should have difficulties separated out or able to be set to a specific level (whether general level pulled from your difficulty settings under 'in progress' or just remembered from the last time you changed it), to do away with that stupid checkboxing and it needs the popup returned. The latter of which I can say I've had it literally throw me into a space mission without a single warning given. Oh, and the marks CD timer...

    So really. 2 changes to get the updated functionality and cleanliness vs 4 issues which MIGHT be resolved at some point. Maybe. If Cryptic even cares and don't consider it to be 'as intended' already.

    The lack of warning only hit me on ground queues so far. That to me seems more like a bug than WAI. And personally I kinda like the ability to sort by mark type. Means I don't have to slog through the whole list if I'm zeroing in on specific marks.

    The old UI had its issues. The new UI has its issues. The new one is also BRAND NEW and needs to be ironed out. Not scrapped entirely because its different.

    Polished up, I think the new UI might just work out. Hell... we can queue up for Borg and Tholian alerts ANYWHERE with this one!
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • shurkhemolightshurkhemolight Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.

    What should have been done was a complete rebuild of the ingame space and ground combat tray UI's, you know so we do not have to push buttons 2-4 times to trigger a heal and then "oh well, i am dead anyway".

    This would have been a much more prudent use of resources which have now been wasted in full revamping a que UI that didn't need touched whatsoever.

  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,909 Arc User
    What should have been done was a complete rebuild of the ingame space and ground combat tray UI's, you know so we do not have to push buttons 2-4 times to trigger a heal and then "oh well, i am dead anyway".

    That sounds more like interface LAG than anything else.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,129 Arc User
    Im voting BACON

    Because no matter what we say or do cryptic will not undo what they have done ,right or wrong they perceive it as right no matter how bad or good it is.

    So no matter what we say cryptic is going to do whatever they want even if its a bad idea, so i vote bacon

    I'm Alex MAKEPEACE, not Alex Roundhouse Everyone, Knocking Their Heads Off and Stuffing Their Headless Corpses Into a Black Hole!

    ... Calling it now. Someone's going to ban me for making peace.

  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    rattler2 wrote: »
    daiph wrote: »
    Bullcrud. Learning the alphabet is something that the vast majority of us do at a young age, and that's how the queue was organised unless you hit one of the column headers to resort the list. Sure, some people have issues like Dyslexia and so forth but ultimately, you didn't have to learn where everything is and you could find it remarkably easily and quickly.

    Which falls under "Memorized where everything is". Alphabet aside, knowing where it is on the list means you just scroll down to that section. But the list has been getting longer for years, and sometimes you might forget exactly what gives what.
    Literally two changed and it would've had all the functionality of the new UI in addition to being a much leaner, cleaner and faster interface all over.
    How is having every single queue thrown in our face in a LONG list leaner?

    I commend your pedantry, but that's not memorising a list, that's applying a system of order to a pre-sorted list as an index.

    So how is it leaner; it didn't require you to bounce between multiple different sections to find the different queues you wanted to then have to change the difficulty on each one of them, check a checkbox and THEN FINALLY hit the queue button. Before you could literally scroll up/down and double click those you wanted. I don't know why it is you don't see that as leaner, faster or easier.

    Seriously, help me out here. Did you not know previously that you could filter out between ground/space? Do you have some other method other than either a scroll wheel on a mouse or for the console controller users amongst us literally just hold the stick or dpad in the proper direction for it to scroll? I'm not even kidding, reading your responses has me asking myself if you and I even used the same interface given how quick and easy it was to simply scroll to the right sequence of letters and yet you're saying it wasn't either of those things... I don't get it...
    rattler2 wrote: »
    daiph wrote: »
    The newer UI however needs to cut down on jumping between sections quite so much, should have difficulties separated out or able to be set to a specific level (whether general level pulled from your difficulty settings under 'in progress' or just remembered from the last time you changed it), to do away with that stupid checkboxing and it needs the popup returned. The latter of which I can say I've had it literally throw me into a space mission without a single warning given. Oh, and the marks CD timer...

    So really. 2 changes to get the updated functionality and cleanliness vs 4 issues which MIGHT be resolved at some point. Maybe. If Cryptic even cares and don't consider it to be 'as intended' already.

    The lack of warning only hit me on ground queues so far. That to me seems more like a bug than WAI. And personally I kinda like the ability to sort by mark type. Means I don't have to slog through the whole list if I'm zeroing in on specific marks.

    The old UI had its issues. The new UI has its issues. The new one is also BRAND NEW and needs to be ironed out. Not scrapped entirely because its different.

    Polished up, I think the new UI might just work out. Hell... we can queue up for Borg and Tholian alerts ANYWHERE with this one!

    Well if you want to break it right down, the only difference, the only real difference is that the filters for reward type are on the side of the window. This is what causes us to have to go back and forth between different filtered tabs and continually reset difficulty. This is what causes us to have to reset everything (both reward filter and difficulty filter) every time we just want to check how many people are now in queue with us when the queues we select have different rewards. This is what makes the entire new system unwieldy, clumsy, convoluted and frankly, a complete pos.
    Want that function to filter reward itmes, do away with this stupid tabbed reward type and add a checkbox filter to the column header.

    The pictured featured queues thing is a non issue for pretty much everyone as near as I can tell. It's kinda pretty but really, big deal.
    The rewards list extension as I've said mutliple times and had people agreeing with me, even when they want the old system back, is a good thing we all want to keep.
    The ability to filter rewards is also good and we want to keep it. That it has been implemented with tabs is downright moronic.
    The difficulty settings continually resetting is annoying as hell, especially when you just want to know if you're likely to get a mission pop.
    And just to top it off, it would be nice if we could actually filter our queues so they sit reasonably close to each other, even if they keep this checkbox system, rather than have to jump about multiple tabs just to find one of the other missions we want to play.

    To summarise this, again, it's not necessarily the idea of a new UI design that is at fault, but the convoluted application of this tabbed filter system which was completely unnecessary. Keep the shiny new graphics, return to a single list, stick in a checkbox filter on rewards with the rewards list as it is now. So simple, so easy.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,036 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    Not sure I understand the point of this poll, as it should be obvious that Cryptic won't be rolling back to the old queue system. They wanted to improve on it. A better poll would be asking how they could best improve on the new queue system.
    They could best improve the new queues system by rolling it back to the old one.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,909 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    daiph wrote: »
    Seriously, help me out here. Did you not know previously that you could filter out between ground/space? Do you have some other method other than either a scroll wheel on a mouse or for the console controller users amongst us literally just hold the stick or dpad in the proper direction for it to scroll? I'm not even kidding, reading your responses has me asking myself if you and I even used the same interface given how quick and easy it was to simply scroll to the right sequence of letters and yet you're saying it wasn't either of those things... I don't get it...

    I did know about the ground/space sorting. Never used it. And I never used a mouse wheel because for a long time I was using a mouse with a semi busted mouse wheel that wouldn't scroll properly. So I had to resort to click and drag.

    And what I was saying is that while having it in alphabetical order may have been good... the list kept getting LONGER and LONGER, and sometimes you might lose sight of what you're looking for in the HUGE FRICKIN' LIST. I'm not dyslexic, and sometimes I lost sight of Infected because there were so many others right there with it.

    I think that's the core of our disagreement. You preferred having the massive, ever growing list, and I didn't. I like zeroing in on specific marks and not seeing queues I don't want to run. Like I have said, there's room for improvement. Doesn't mean I'm gonna jump on the "scrap wholesale" bandwagon because its not absolutely 100% perfect right out of the box. Give them time to iron out the kinks, and let us see how it works then. Dang thing's only about a week old for crying out loud! Hasn't even had time to get patched!
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 48,909 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »

    The quotes are more about how Cryptic percieves the constant stream of these protests on the forums, Matt. including polls just like this one, because they happen, just like this does, every time they change anything.

    at all.

    it's not constructive feedback, because it's just more noise when it reaches them, and they've got good historical cause to treat it as such.

    Taking what they have presented, and offering critiques of what isn't working with it, in the context of "Please fix this" is far more effective and useful than "I hate it and it should be the way it used to be!!" ever was or will be.

    I mean, the lesson IS THERE, if you bother to read back far enough, with prior systems and ui changes that have gone on, whether it's something like the queues, or the color change, or deeper mechanics changes to the game itself-being constructive isn't being 'positive' or fangurling, but it's a hell of a lot more effective than "I don't like it make it like I'm used to" is.

    Quoted for Truth.
    EVERY SINGLE CHANGE EVER in the game had pretty much been met with this same response. And I've been around long enough to see that myself.

    Constructive Feedback means actually GIVING VIABLE INFORMATION ON WHAT WORKS AND WHAT DOESN'T.
    The "I don't like it! Change it back!" line is not constructive. Frankly... it sounds like this:


    MMOs are always evolving. If you don't want things to change... don't play an MMO.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I think that's the core of our disagreement. You preferred having the massive, ever growing list, and I didn't. I like zeroing in on specific marks and not seeing queues I don't want to run. Like I have said, there's room for improvement. Doesn't mean I'm gonna jump on the "scrap wholesale" bandwagon because its not absolutely 100% perfect right out of the box. Give them time to iron out the kinks, and let us see how it works then. Dang thing's only about a week old for crying out loud! Hasn't even had time to get patched!

    Actually, I have to disagree with your summary here as you've completely missed my point again. I didn't want an every growing list and that was absolutely one of the failings of the previous UI which is why I'm continually making reference to applying filters to the complete list rather than bouncing around in multiple different tabs. I even said precisely that in my own summary.
    daiph wrote: »
    To summarise this, again, it's not necessarily the idea of a new UI design that is at fault, but the convoluted application of this tabbed filter system which was completely unnecessary. Keep the shiny new graphics, return to a single list, stick in a checkbox filter on rewards with the rewards list as it is now. So simple, so easy.

    Literally the main difference between the two (AGAIN!) is the tabbed filter style with the list of rewards down the side. Just filter a single list and we won't be jumping about constantly with various settings being reset should we need to go back. It would also mean that we could change the difficulty once and the filter would remain applied as we wouldn't be changing tabs/windows/screens/whatever.

    patrickngo wrote: »
    it's not defeatist to say that protests are ineffective. That's simple observation. Secondly, it's not defeatist to look at other, prior protests like this in this very vein, compare to what has become 'standard' and say that this is more of that good old "New and We Hate It" type material.

    Crafting revamp.
    Doffing Revamp.
    Creation of "advanced" queues.
    Admiralty.
    Reputations.
    the introduction of Fleet Holdings.

    Every single one of these sparked this exact poll with this exact result over the years. The UI update that let you pick the colors did it too..

    Well it's that or we come to the conclusion that Cryptic doesn't pay any attention to its players or what they want and as a result pouring negativity on a single topic because of the results of previous similar styles of arguments undermines even the possibility of improvement. I'm not going to argue that we do get knee-jerk reactions every time, that's obvious but that doesn't mean you should (as was implied initially) just poo all over it because of, as mentioned, previous similar styled points.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Functionally, the new UI provides:

    1. Ability to sort by Mark type, and indexing on the same screen, this is a huge improvement in quality of life over the longer term.
    I agree and disagree with this. Mainly as it's not on the same screen while every time you move from one tab to another it resets your settings and you're unable to have the specific missions you're interested in shown with in a single list. Sorting/filtering (far more important term here) by mark type though, I'm absolutely 100% on board here, and have said as much several times.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    2. Ability to switch between PvE and PvP queues without having to dig through a pocket dropdown in the lower corner of the minimap-the same dropdown that includes "visit the bridge".
    Honestly, I think the number of players who care about the PvP aspect is quite low, and will probably continue to be however, I do agree that having the PvP stuff tabbed in next to the PvE menus has been a long time coming. Still don't know why it wasn't that way for so long (when fleet holdings dropped, no?)
    patrickngo wrote: »
    3. the requirement to actively choose difficulty setting means, in effect, that people who shouldn't be queuing for Advanced probably won't be-which is something of a quality of life improvement for people who get red-eyed raging when someone in a skittleboat that does weak flashlight DPS shows up in their Parse.
    4. also prevents people from accidentally winding up in a queue they can't handle.
    (I totally read that as 'fleshlight', that took me to a scary place...)
    See, actively setting your difficulty is something that pretty much everyone has already done (press 'j' > In progress > button on the bottom right ... Pretty sure that's pointed out in the tutorials, but it's been a while since I did them) so having to reset it now is just irritating especially when it happens every time you switch reward, regardless of whether you're queueing another mission or just looking to get an impression of how long until you launch.
    I could perhaps see your difficulty being reset for queues when you first log in and having to set it up for that toon but then sticking until you log out or switch to another toon, but every time?! No, that can't be right. And realistically, if people aren't paying attention to what they're queueing then perhaps they deserve being dropped into the deep end for a little bit, or hey, maybe they'll have a happy accident and find they love rising to the increased challenge... In any event, we can't force people to pay attention but they at least reap what they sew themselves there, but effectively punishing everyone else by adding in even small reductions in quality of use isn't right.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    5. sorting queues is easier-if you're grinding Romulan, you don't have to sort through Nukara, Undine, and Delta missions to do it, if you're doing Infected, you know exactly where to find it.
    6. if the new queue is overcomplicated for you, I suggest the old one was probably overcomplex for you as well.
    Again with this, and nice dig there pal... The issue isn't that you can filter queues, the issue is the stupid tabs (which make pu the largest and most irritating chance in the UI) and constantly resetting your settings on missions. More than that too, it's always useful to be able to see the missions that you're queued in or perhaps even considering queueing in next to each other not to even mention having to leave all queues while attempting to add another if required, which is a massive step backwards in overall quality and usability.

    patrickngo wrote: »
    7. page space-the entire list of queues required extensive scrolling to look over, and event queues (such as recent ones) could swallow up the window... this doesn't do that (yet) and leaves room for sorting and growth.
    Not sure what sort of setup you're running but the event/highlighted queues on my screen already scroll off the side of the window (I'm on 1920*1080, with 3x tiles showing and a 4th off to the side...). Pretty sure if I fired it up on my laptop I'd see only 2 or 2.5 highlighted tiles which wouldn't help in the slightest. Also, once again, the idea of that ever increasing list could be completely mitigated by very simply allowing the rewards filter to be applied to the old list column header, same with difficulty.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Known issues:

    1. the 'surprise, you've been kicked' is a bug. it could easily be a bug in the old queue too.
    2. Tracking how many are waiting/wait times: Clearly bugged, but also clearly being worked on.
    3. It's new, you'll get used to it, and when you're used to it, a reversion would trigger exactly this same response.
    1. Yeah, throw on the 'surprise, mission launch while map switching, you're dropped' or 'surprise, we don't care that you're in the middle of a trade or exchange sale/purchase, it's launch time', both of which weren't issues under the old system (but could be, I grant you) as it gave you the popup with CD timer. Not a debate here, just adding an effect to the issue.
    2. Except that it's not a bug, is it (statement intentional), it's as designed because you can't see all the queues if they're under different reward headers.
    3. Possibly, as I can't see the future. I can say without reservation though that if the reward filter were implemented as a column header checkbox on the old UI, I'd be on here saying how good it was because I've been hoping for such a feature for a long time now.
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Could be Improved/ported from the old system:
    4. Being able to queue for more than one mission at a time/being able to queue for both PvE and PvP simultaneously to use the first one that pops. This is a nice to have not a deal breaker.
    Given the number of 'less than optimal' abilities, builds, etc that don't cross over between PvE/PvP, I'm not so sure how useful this is but I do agree it would be better to have all 'queueable' missions in the one place,
    patrickngo wrote: »
    it's not constructive feedback, because it's just more noise when it reaches them, and they've got good historical cause to treat it as such.

    Sorry, I can't let that one go even though you're absolutely right that in large amounts of 'feedback' is more shovelling from the manure heap. If you want to talk historical cause and effect, let's talk about how the KDF was a half faction for so long even with all the promises that it wasn't intended to be. Let's look at the every increasing amount of Federation content which utterly eclipses the two other factions. Let's look at how most KDF and Roms content designs are generally just reskinned from Feds rather than having any real feel of factional differences or playstyle preferences within factions what so ever. Or hey, let's drag up the old chestnut about how 'DR is great and players love it', and those are the few that are straight off the top of my head.

    Sure, the devs get pebbledashed all the time (sometimes unfairly) but y'know what? They've deserved a whole load of that and probably more, especially on that last point.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Yes, I would like to see the old queue system brought back
    Yes, bring back the old good interface. It is much better than the new one.
    questerius wrote: »
    The new UI has plenty of potential and the old UI was too crowded and allowed many queues to be completely missed.

    This new UI actually allows old favorites like Gorn minefield and The Big Dig to pop more often.

    Not sure they are being 'missed'. More likely people pass them on purpose because they don't like them or they don't reward enough of / or the desired marks.
    The reason I think we protest and would like them to reinstate the old system is most people's complete lack of confidence that this bunch of coders can a) actually repair broken code, because let's face it they continually mess it up in the first place and are unable to fix many of the issues that have been in the game for months and years, and b) have the tendency to dump broken code on us and move on to their next project due to enormous pressure on them to produce money making content.
    The only time they actually do something is when the problem truly is game breaking and unplayable. The current queues have many and varied problems, they are not actually game breaking but for many they cause so much frustration that they no longer want to bother.

    Sadly, that seems to be true. The idea seems to be to suck as much money out of players cause "It's Trek!" until all these little errors kill the game. Understandable. I drive a 21yr old car. I do the bare minimum to keep it going and once it dies, it will be abandoned on the side of the road. That is PWE's thought of STO.

    It's not always been so blatant; before the game went F2P, they would make things that looked like someone put time & care into what they did. Having a subscription system meant they had to please people in the long term. Now they don't care if you play a month, spend a bunch of money, then get frustrated and leave. They figure there will always be a new player to come along to do the same.
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
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