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AoY TOS Uniform colours

Hi All

I'm sure this has been addressed somewhere previously, but... How come security officers in the TOS period of the game are wearing mustard uniforms rather than red?

Cheers

K

Comments

  • kylethetruekylethetrue Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    Because Tactical class includes Commander archetypes and in TOS Command personnel wore yellow.
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  • isthisscienceisthisscience Member Posts: 861 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Because Tactical class includes Commander archetypes and in TOS Command personnel wore yellow.

    Yes and no. TOS Security came under operations which was red. You can say tatical was gold but we never really had tactical - we had Sulu who was helm pressing fire which is why he wore gold. Problem we have here is Operations and Engineering are treated as one thing in STO so when you apply a TOS color division based off TNG you get 2 of the 3 branches in red (or end up with engineers wearing gold).

    Department (STO dept) - TOS - TNG
    Command ("Tactical") - GOLD - RED
    Security ("Tactical") - RED - GOLD
    Operations ("Engineering") - GOLD - GOLD
    Engineering ("Engineering")- RED - GOLD
    Science ("Science") - BLUE - BLUE
    Medical ("Science") - BLUE - BLUE

    Something like that.

    Anyway, the root is fitting 6 groupes into 3 divided different ways with the current system producing one problem: red shirts wear gold.
  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 572 Arc User
    Personally I'd have had them wear red, and if the player wants to, they can switch them to gold themselves. The idea that the original redshirts do not actually wear red shirts is a bit silly in my view.

  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,129 Arc User
    Ok op idk if you ever wached the ToS era shows, tactical officers wore mustard green, med and sci wore powder blue, and engineers and meat shields wore crimson red.
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,708 Arc User
    I noticed that as well. I mean they are called redshirts. No argument putting them in gold makes sense, STO itself puts security in the (wrong) category and makes them red in 2409 - why not in AoY?
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 572 Arc User
    Ok op idk if you ever wached the ToS era shows, tactical officers wore mustard green, med and sci wore powder blue, and engineers and meat shields wore crimson red.

    Yep I have. As has been posted, we never really had Tactical in TOS. Sulu and Chekov were Helmsman and Navigator respectively. Memory Alpha calls these Command positions, similar to how the Helm officer in the TNG era shows was a Command position.


  • donitiardonitiar Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    In one of the interviews, Al Rivera said they decided to separate tactical and operations.
    Apparently breaking canon on uniforms is ok, but adding races that weren't seen onscreen is not.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,731 Arc User
    I like how the andorian woman says "us redshirts have to stick together right?" While wearing a gold shirt, lol.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,432 Arc User
    Because Tactical class includes Commander archetypes and in TOS Command personnel wore yellow.
    There is no tactical in canon. Only command, science and operation (=everything that isn't command or science).

    Cryptic can make up their own uniforms for the 25th century, but in TOS, security wore red.
    I like how the andorian woman says "us redshirts have to stick together right?" While wearing a gold shirt, lol.

    Yeah, I lolled at that too.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,077 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    On my ship, a Daedalus class vessel, not only do we all wear blue because we're allllll just a bunch of scientists smooshed into a tiny golfball hurtling through the great big galaxy, but we also sport the Daedalus badge on our chest.

    ;)

    It's a case of all us "blue" shirts sticking together, because the quarters are cramped!
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,370 Arc User
    "Mustard green"? Joran, have you had your color vision checked lately? :smile:
    I like how the andorian woman says "us redshirts have to stick together right?" While wearing a gold shirt, lol.
    I put her in red as soon as I accepted her as my first crewmember, because she's definitely Security.​​
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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,001 Arc User1
    Honest answer? Because STO shoehorned themselves into a corner by mashing "Command" into the "Tactical" class at launch and it never quite fit well, a few years later it bit em in the balls.... aside from that the others posted the answers.
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    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • giovanniblasinigiovanniblasini Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    There was some cross-training and uniform colors in the original series, too. Spock, the first officer, wore blue, and setting aside the oddities of the Galileo Seven, had to have command training to be able to be first officer. Scotty, the chief engineer, took command on the bridge regularly. Ignoring the novels that made it clear they all went to command school, despite their differing career tracks, they all had to be command qualified in order to command the ship.

    The way I divide it up for my TOS characters is:

    First Officer: specialty other than my character's, wears department color, but with command badge.

    Chief tactical officer: yellow, tactical track.
    Security chief: red shirt, operations, tactical track.
    Operations chief and chief engineer: Red shirts, engineering track.
    Science and Medical: Whichever science officer has the med skills wears the doctor's uniform. Other is science.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,731 Arc User
    My captain is the only one wearing gold, because I personally hate that color. My first officer is sci and wears blue with sci badge, and all other boffs except my medical officer wear red with ops badge.
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  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    "Mustard green"? Joran, have you had your color vision checked lately? :smile: ​​

    Yeah, seems the film grain did a lot more to mess things up than give people migraines... :tongue:
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,079 Bug Hunter
    So far, I'm running,
    Captain - Green (the tunic)
    Tactical - Gold (like Sulu)
    Security - Red (redshirts duh)
    Engineering - Red (except they survive, 'cos they can tank)
    Operations - Gold (Because reasons)
    Medical - Light Blue (in the medical tunic)
    Science - Blue (duh)

    It took a while to decide whether tactical and operations should be red or gold and I may yet turn it around at some other point, we'll see.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,019 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    So far, I'm running,
    Captain - Green (the tunic)
    Tactical - Gold (like Sulu)
    Security - Red (redshirts duh)
    Engineering - Red (except they survive, 'cos they can tank)
    Operations - Gold (Because reasons)
    Medical - Light Blue (in the medical tunic)
    Science - Blue (duh)

    It took a while to decide whether tactical and operations should be red or gold and I may yet turn it around at some other point, we'll see.​​

    Under what department would Uhura as com officer fall? Think she wore red for the most part of the shows. :)
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,079 Bug Hunter
    edited July 2016
    Opperations. But she never had a department specified. Though I would have thought comms would be a command possition due to all the order relaying. Though TOS seemed to be remarkably inconsistent with Sulu and Checkovs jobs. Is Checkov the navigator, helm, tactical, security, assistant science officer, nurse ( :p ).

    I'm not strictly sticking to TOS other than keepin their red/gold scheme the correct way around. For instance, all of my officers are wearing the 'male' uniforms. The captain is female and the crew is not entirely Human with a token Vulcan.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,019 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    artan42 wrote: »
    Opperations. But she never had a department specified. Though I would have thought comms would be a command possition due to all the order relaying. Though TOS seemed to be remarkably inconsistent with Sulu and Checkovs jobs. Is Checkov the navigator, helm, tactical, security, assistant science officer, nurse ( :p ).

    I suppose you are right. Fun thing is Uhura even had yellow uniform in the first few episodes of the first season. I bet on most of the back ground characters they just decided to use the color which fitted the actors best. Since I have the same crew on all of my 9 (now 10) chars I accidently made the same decision on one of the boffs which should be yellow but simply looks best in red. :)

    Which reminds me… In the DS9 show where they went back in time Dax hardly had any business wearing red while Sisko and O’brien took their department seriously and switched colour.
    artan42 wrote: »

    I'm not strictly sticking to TOS other than keepin their red/gold scheme the correct way around. For instance, all of my officers are wearing the 'male' uniforms. The captain is female and the crew is not entirely Human with a token Vulcan.

    Male and Female unis are a bit tricky too. I don’t recall ever seeing a female in a male one there. I just know on some very rare occasions there were some females which had put on a female upper but with trousers. :open_mouth:
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,079 Bug Hunter
    Well, after all, that was the exact reason red and gold were swapped for TNG and why Data was made Opperations instead of Science. Patrick Stewart looked better in red and Brent Spiner's makeup clashed with blue.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 5,019 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    artan42 wrote: »
    Well, after all, that was the exact reason red and gold were swapped for TNG and why Data was made Opperations instead of Science. Patrick Stewart looked better in red and Brent Spiner's makeup clashed with blue.

    Lol never knew that but yea, good decision! Other way around would look totally weird. :s
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,079 Bug Hunter
    Male and Female unis are a bit tricky too. I don’t recall ever seeing a female in a male one there. I just know on some very rare occasions there were some females which had put on a female upper but with trousers. :open_mouth:

    There was only one occasion and it was, as you say, the female top with trousers. But as this isn't the 60s and as in real life uniformed organisations are moving away from sex segregated uniforms. That was one of the ways JJ could have separated himself from TOS but instead he doubled down on the dress idea and removed the ranks.

    But, as I said, I'm only holding to the basics of TOS.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,708 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    There was only one occasion and it was, as you say, the female top with trousers. But as this isn't the 60s and as in real life uniformed organisations are moving away from sex segregated uniforms. That was one of the ways JJ could have separated himself from TOS but instead he doubled down on the dress idea and removed the ranks.

    But, as I said, I'm only holding to the basics of TOS.

    My headcanon departments for my STO crews are

    Command (includes helm/navigation and communication) 23c 25c
    Operations (includes security, supply and support) 23c 25c
    Engineering 23c 25c
    Tactical 23c 25c
    Science 23c 25c
    Medical 23c 25c

    Those colours aren't all accurate, the nuances are a bit finer in game but I couldn't be bothered to look for the right colour codes...

    Captain might choose a variant, the green tunic in the 23c or the white shoulders in 25c or a vest variant, whatever does still look uniform enough to be told belonging together. Medical wears a bright base in 25c (as STO does by default), there are a few engineering variants like overalls and "Male" and "Female" attire is completely up to the crew. 23c and 25c both support skirts (because they're just nicer to wear and when I created my TOS Tellarite captain she looked stunning in skirt and pantyhose) and I'd love to have kilts for male crewmen but Cryptic doesn't deliver. Sigh. Security usually wears trousers, especially in boarding parties or away teams. Speaking of away teams, there are different standard attires for a team's duty. In the 25c that's Oddyssey variants for ship duty, excursion for away teams and excursion with added parts to mimic a Hazard Suit for tactical teams.
    2r2u1s2.jpg
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 8,370 Arc User
    There was some cross-training and uniform colors in the original series, too. Spock, the first officer, wore blue, and setting aside the oddities of the Galileo Seven, had to have command training to be able to be first officer. Scotty, the chief engineer, took command on the bridge regularly.
    Spock also doubled as the ship's chief science officer; there appeared to be no bridge station for a dedicated "first officer" in Constitution-class ships. Therefore, blue tunic.

    The captain can come through any track, so long as he/she is command-qualified - but as captain, you wear command gold, in Starfleet standards. (In STO, of course, you wear any color you like, including colors Starfleet didn't use in the 23rd century. I saw lots of black Starfleet unis in 23C ESD, standing around in Garrett's office.)​​
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,079 Bug Hunter
    angrytarg wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    There was only one occasion and it was, as you say, the female top with trousers. But as this isn't the 60s and as in real life uniformed organisations are moving away from sex segregated uniforms. That was one of the ways JJ could have separated himself from TOS but instead he doubled down on the dress idea and removed the ranks.

    But, as I said, I'm only holding to the basics of TOS.

    My headcanon departments for my STO crews are

    Command (includes helm/navigation and communication) 23c 25c
    Operations (includes security, supply and support) 23c 25c
    Engineering 23c 25c
    Tactical 23c 25c
    Science 23c 25c
    Medical 23c 25c

    Those colours aren't all accurate, the nuances are a bit finer in game but I couldn't be bothered to look for the right colour codes...

    Captain might choose a variant, the green tunic in the 23c or the white shoulders in 25c or a vest variant, whatever does still look uniform enough to be told belonging together. Medical wears a bright base in 25c (as STO does by default), there are a few engineering variants like overalls and "Male" and "Female" attire is completely up to the crew. 23c and 25c both support skirts (because they're just nicer to wear and when I created my TOS Tellarite captain she looked stunning in skirt and pantyhose) and I'd love to have kilts for male crewmen but Cryptic doesn't deliver. Sigh. Security usually wears trousers, especially in boarding parties or away teams. Speaking of away teams, there are different standard attires for a team's duty. In the 25c that's Oddyssey variants for ship duty, excursion for away teams and excursion with added parts to mimic a Hazard Suit for tactical teams.

    Most of my crews are a muddle, but my TOS crew has a system (listed above) but my Fed main in his Oddy has a system I spent a bit of time on.

    Command - Red
    Includes captain, XO, Second Officer (working in shifts because that's how a real ship would run, seriously, Riker and Picard at the same time is redundant), Helm, and Navigation (as the Oddy has slipstream and Transwarp an Nav is needed again)
    Command Variant - White shouldered

    Operations - Red
    Computer technicians, magic button guys (like Harry was).
    Operations Variant - None

    Engineering - Red
    Engineering Variant - Red Jumpsuit

    Security - Grey
    They are shipboard and landing party security because Starfleet categorically does not use marines.
    Security Variant - Grey Hazard team type arrangement with kits and minor armour.

    Tactical - Grey
    The people that fire the ships weapons, open torpedo tubes, calibrate targeting systems etc.
    Tactical Variant - None

    Hangar Opps - Grey
    Pilots and ground crew for shuttles.
    Hanger Variant - Pilot costume. The VOY racing suit with the Iconian face visor thing.

    Science - Blue
    Bog standard blue shirts. In real life that's me. The one who's waving their Tricorder over some water just before something eats me.
    Science Variant - White labcoat. Because I've ended picking that thing up instead of a coat too many times.

    Medical - Blue
    Safely locked away in sickbay and nowhere near the bridge.
    Medical Variant - Blue labcoat

    Transporter Opps - Blue
    Who would trust them to engineers?
    Transporter Variant - None

    And

    Intelligence - Black
    Intelligence Variant - None

    Ambassador - White
    Ambassador Variant - White dress uniform.

    The combadges indicate training not department. So a Navigator would have a sci combadge on a command uniform, or a Tactical officer would have a eng combadge on a tactical uniform. The captain, XO, and SO will have the blank combadges with no specialisation.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 572 Arc User
    Hi guys.

    Rthanks for the input. Obviously I've put my security and tactical guys in their red shirts. I really find everyone's take on uniform colours interesting.

    Incidentally, I've since decided that apart from my initial 3 TOS BOFFs I'm having every crew member wear a uniform from a different time period. This is mainly because I don't have the 23rd century uniforms so can't have 25th century BOFFs wear them.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 4,731 Arc User
    Hi guys.

    Rthanks for the input. Obviously I've put my security and tactical guys in their red shirts. I really find everyone's take on uniform colours interesting.

    Incidentally, I've since decided that apart from my initial 3 TOS BOFFs I'm having every crew member wear a uniform from a different time period. This is mainly because I don't have the 23rd century uniforms so can't have 25th century BOFFs wear them.

    I considered doing this with a toon a long time ago, but never leveled it. For my away team I had Enterprise, TOS, TWOK, TNG, and TNG film uniforms. If we can ever get Ent phase pistols and TWOK pulse phasers I may revisit it.
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