I looked through every page but didn't see an answer to this, even though it's been asked at least a couple times.
Will we be able to respec our skill tree free of charge and captain retrain tokens in the c-store done away with?
Before the trait revamp we had to buy respec tokens from the c-store to reselect our reputation traits. But the trait revamp allowed us to change them whenever we wanted for free.
The only implications I get is that we will still have to buy respec tokens to redo our skill trees.
I'd like to point out the dev blog:
For some time now, we have been looking to improve this progression system. We know that new players often have a difficult time coming to understand the many options presented, what they do, and what the “right” choice for them might be at any time.
Even with the system being simplified, new players will need to respec several times to find the "right choice" of how to distribute their points. There is no way most players will know exactly how to build their character the first time. Even veteran players will need to experiment with the new system to find what now works best for them since there are so many changes coming.
It's obvious that letting us change around our reputation traits didn't hurt the game in any way. In fact it was a much welcomed improvement, for the most part.
Would it hurt the game, or the company financially, in any way to let us respec out skill trees free of charge whenever we wanted? Of course, like changing around our traits, it would be limited mainly to social zone maps.
I see that graviton generators is going into a new control expertise category, but I see no mention of particle generators anywhere in the blog. What is happening with that skill? Often times players put points into both particle and graviton generators because they both affect gravity wells.
> Would it hurt the game, or the company financially, in any way to let us respec out skill trees free of charge whenever we wanted? Of course, like changing around our traits, it would be limited mainly to social zone maps.
While there are some good questions here it seems like some players are asking the same questions over and over. Even when the answers are in the blog post! Sometimes I wish asking dumb questions was a little painful for the asker.
to be fair threre should have been a reserved post under the initial post for FAQ's that are answered later on in the thread rather than sifting through a ton of posts, its not the EVE forums where we can just go to the next dev post in the thread, or at least i have not found that function yet.
Cryptic for some reason chooses to ignore this age old saying, as the rather long article I saw seems to offer nothing worthwhile, new, useful, or interesting!
Instead, please consider fixing existing systems that are broken to the point that they're barely being used. For example...
- Bridges (The new season should focus on our crew, not another unknown planet in known space. featuring updated versions of classic interiors like the galaxy class, cause like EVERYONE links the unreal engine stuff people post of ship interiors so can we just get decent ones besides voyager already? Heck you could even make them social hubs. We'd take it. at least then we'd see people on the ship and it wouldn't feel lonely)
- STF Elite Queues (the accolade is broken, and the outfits are still ungettable)
- Costume Creator (you've locked pallettes... change it to a standard RGB Slider setup and remove "uniform/offduty/omegaforce/etc" restrictions)
- MERGE THE FACTIONS (As your current way of doing things makes your shard system pointless and separates your userbase in every negative way possible)
- Fix existing maps in a new and fun way (like Andoria. It's boring. You could make it a permanent Q's Winter Wonderland. You could add utopia Planetia as a social hub. You could make Starfleet Academy a new adventure zone where we learn about Starfleet's history, chain of command, and other interesting stuff via missions)
- You could add Battlecloak to more Starfleet Ships (lets face it, the khitomer accords are dead.)
- you could make the episode where the Bajorans are finally caught as being the traitorous scoundrels that they are and exterminated from existence, thus giving Starfleet a new enemy to claim is terrible.
- LIBERATED. BORG. RACE. (or a kit that simply makes you look like a liberated borg)
- Ferenginar. (Cause why not? then feds could FINALLY punch the Ferengi! We've been waiting for years for this!)
...these are just a few ideas off the top of my head, most of which will likely get an eye roll, but it's what the public wants for the most part, and it would help the game feel more like STAR TREK.
This may be the best time to redo Threat skill and how Threat works in STO.
I think a -Threat skill would be much more useful than a +Threat. Also healing a team member should generate Threat not just damage being done. This would give a nice teamwork effect for healing tanks that have not figured out how to do enough damage to get npcs firing at his/her ship.
Cryptic for some reason chooses to ignore this age old saying, as the rather long article I saw seems to offer nothing worthwhile, new, useful, or interesting!
Instead, please consider fixing existing systems that are broken to the point that they're barely being used. For example...
- Bridges (The new season should focus on our crew, not another unknown planet in known space. featuring updated versions of classic interiors like the galaxy class, cause like EVERYONE links the unreal engine stuff people post of ship interiors so can we just get decent ones besides voyager already? Heck you could even make them social hubs. We'd take it. at least then we'd see people on the ship and it wouldn't feel lonely)
- STF Elite Queues (the accolade is broken, and the outfits are still ungettable)
- Costume Creator (you've locked pallettes... change it to a standard RGB Slider setup and remove "uniform/offduty/omegaforce/etc" restrictions)
- MERGE THE FACTIONS (As your current way of doing things makes your shard system pointless and separates your userbase in every negative way possible)
- Fix existing maps in a new and fun way (like Andoria. It's boring. You could make it a permanent Q's Winter Wonderland. You could add utopia Planetia as a social hub. You could make Starfleet Academy a new adventure zone where we learn about Starfleet's history, chain of command, and other interesting stuff via missions)
- You could add Battlecloak to more Starfleet Ships (lets face it, the khitomer accords are dead.)
- you could make the episode where the Bajorans are finally caught as being the traitorous scoundrels that they are and exterminated from existence, thus giving Starfleet a new enemy to claim is terrible.
- LIBERATED. BORG. RACE. (or a kit that simply makes you look like a liberated borg)
- Ferenginar. (Cause why not? then feds could FINALLY punch the Ferengi! We've been waiting for years for this!)
...these are just a few ideas off the top of my head, most of which will likely get an eye roll, but it's what the public wants for the most part, and it would help the game feel more like STAR TREK.
Aside from the "Making the Bajorian's Bad" part. I agree with your recommendations.
Are you paying attention PWE?
Since you said it's an unlock, will I be able to toggle this ability on and off at will sort of like how it can be done with the ship commands, or will it be a permanently on thing?
The new "Threatening Stance" toggle is an on/off choice that can be changed on the fly.
The Unlock mentioned simply improves the effectiveness of Threatening Stance while it's active, while also reducing the amount of Threat naturally generated when Threatening Stance is NOT turned on.
Hooray! Finally threat control we can... control
I look forward to seeing this.
3 follow up questions:
1. Does simply speccing into the threat control path (path or single thign to spec into?) give this threat toggle?
2. How does this threat toggle now interact with the cruiser attract fire command? Because the two are very similar in terms of controlling threat. Having two toggles for the same thing could lead to confusion when playing.
3. You listed how many space and ground things we can unlock, but the unlock tracks weren't. Are we able to aquire all unlock tracks at once or will there be a finite number for the passive unlock tracks too?
That's just me speculating. There's lots of ways it could be done that would be both fun and interesting. I was just responding to a proposal that it must be either/or one of only 2 possible ways of dealing with attack patterns. Looks from additional info I hadn't read at that point that they've opted to set the base functionality of the Boff abilities to current max, and IF there are any new skill nodes related to attack patterns they either increase those benefits beyond what we can achieve now or affect them in other ways.
That's just me speculating. There's lots of ways it could be done that would be both fun and interesting. I was just responding to a proposal that it must be either/or one of only 2 possible ways of dealing with attack patterns. Looks from additional info I hadn't read at that point that they've opted to set the base functionality of the Boff abilities to current max, and IF there are any new skill nodes related to attack patterns they either increase those benefits beyond what we can achieve now or affect them in other ways.
Okay then. Guess best thing for me to do will be to just go and experiment once it's live on Tribble.
I am now alarmed. Perhaps unduly, perhaps not. Clarification is necessary.
We have, currently, 35 space skills. 4 of which are being converted into unlocks, and a 5th (attack patterns) is evaporating. Down to 30 skills.
Then we're about to watch 5 skills get "compacted" into a mega hyper control skill, 3 more crunch into drain, and both "energy & projectile blah" skills become "weapon blah" skills.
30 - 12 skills that are compacted away + the 4 skills that are created from the crushings = 22 skills holding "most" of the current skill effects.
Since 2 "new" boxes = 85 or 100 skill points, if we spend 44 of our 50 points on "old" skills and 4 more points to unlock the 4 skills converted into unlocks, we'd have 85s or 100s in every current space skill in the game - a feat which even the most ardent space build spender cannot accomplish under the current skill box system. With 2 points to spare for dabbling in new skills, getting 99s in those old weapons skills which is a DPSers dream, or picking the most OP new one and adding it to our 85/100 collection.
Nah, I don't see an issue with replicating current builds... <facepalm>
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
You know, I've read through every single post in this misbegotten thread and all I see is a bunch of people screaming and waving their hands declaring that the end is nigh.
When the trait system was revamped a while back people said pretty much exactly the same things that are being tossed about in this thread ("don't fix what isn't broken," "Cryptic is killing X build," "PWE doesn't listen to anybody," etc, etc...), and you know what, the trait revamp worked out pretty well in the end. I don't see anybody b*tching about that particular set of changes.
Perhaps, just maybe, people should try calming down and waiting to see what will actually happen when the new system goes live and THEN complain about it. The bottom line is that at the moment, we know very little about exactly how the new skill system will actually function or what the exact changes are/will be. Once we have the chance to see the new skills system in action on Tribble, then you can all fly to pieces.
I see Bort managed to avoid answering the question as to whether respecs would be free after the skill system changes. Safe to assume they won't be. Especially after the upcoming changes, respec tokens are a nice bit of revenue for Cryptic that I doubt they'd be willing to just give up like that. As someone else mentioned, this is one of the few/only games I know that actually asks that you pay money for something like that.
I also fear that, by consolidating and swapping skills around, this will be a stealth nerf to certain things, perhaps even unintentionally in some areas.
Beyond that, I am actually glad they are making an attempt at simplifying the skill system, and using the specialization system as a basis for those changes just makes sense. It will certainly be a boon to newer STO players- though again, there's still that whole, ugly bit about being stuck with the initial choices you make if you're not willing/able to spend the money.
I'm also SUPER psyched about them normalizing damage fall of between beams and cannons, and allowing us to increase our optimal range. As someone who exclusively uses cannons, I feel it's been long past time such a change was implemented.
"There will never be enough blood to wash away my need for vengeance! A single world...I could destroy a million worlds and it would not be enough! Your existence is an insult to the memory of my people! I will continue my fight, even if I must fight alone!"
I see Bort managed to avoid answering the question as to whether respecs would be free after the skill system changes. Safe to assume they won't be. Especially after the upcoming changes, respec tokens are a nice bit of revenue for Cryptic that I doubt they'd be willing to just give up like that. As someone else mentioned, this is one of the few/only games I know that actually asks that you pay money for something like that....
While I can see your point of view on this, I'm wondering if the reason why the respec question(s) are being avoided may be because they're planning something that they're not willing to tell us about yet. I can see them doing the typical week-long giveaway prior to the season rollout where one of the items is a free respec token, or having that as being one of the options for the "first time" playthrough reward of whatever new episode comes out then.
Either way, I know I'd feel more comfortable if we were allowed just a single free respec token simply because I worry about messing up on my first try when I "retrain" all of my characters under the new system.
I see Bort managed to avoid answering the question as to whether respecs would be free after the skill system changes. Safe to assume they won't be. Especially after the upcoming changes, respec tokens are a nice bit of revenue for Cryptic that I doubt they'd be willing to just give up like that. As someone else mentioned, this is one of the few/only games I know that actually asks that you pay money for something like that....
While I can see your point of view on this, I'm wondering if the reason why the respec question(s) are being avoided may be because they're planning something that they're not willing to tell us about yet. I can see them doing the typical week-long giveaway prior to the season rollout where one of the items is a free respec token, or having that as being one of the options for the "first time" playthrough reward of whatever new episode comes out then.
Either way, I know I'd feel more comfortable if we were allowed just a single free respec token simply because I worry about messing up on my first try when I "retrain" all of my characters under the new system.
For those of us who played before F2P, we all got a free skill respec the last time the skill tree was revamped. I'm sure we'll all get one now.
So just kinda going to look like the Spec Trees then?
I agree that the current setup is horrible.
I never liked the 1000 points here but 3000 points there, just cause it's on a higher tree arbitrarily. And the choice of "I can get 3 levels of X vs 1 level of Y. And X is more powerful per level anyway..."
Skills that are pointless, others you have to have or "you suck you noob", and some that are best of the bad choices given to you. Especially with newer mechanics in the game that had to be shoe-horned into some power even if it didn't really make sense; or left off the skill powers altogether (aka buffed by nothing)
Hopefully, the points pools for ground & space are separate; cause if not... you KNOW where all the points will go!
I'm up for a change; but if skill changing still requires us to buy tokens... we better get a pile of them for free when the change happens! None of this: "Go to Tribble to test it out first, because you only get 1 free redo on Holodeck." Tribble sucks ever since you turned off the C-store there since you didn't want people to test drive ships before they bought them!
A quick note for folks wanting to experiment with the new System:
When it arrives on Tribble, we'll have a test vendor available that sells free Respec Tokens, as well as bundles of 10,000 Experience Points. So please try it out when it gets patched to Tribble, and send us your feedback!
Jeremy,
I didn't really see anything that addresses the items we have? What about set items?
Ya I now have these engines that add +20 to driver coil, yet driver coil doesn't work that way anymore.
This is not a simple skill change to the game. It is a major overhaul and re-write of the whole game! D&D tried to go simple and easy and it didn't work, it was a grand failure. This is a big computer MMO, not a simple little ap game so it is suppose to be complex and take time to learn.
I'm an old beta tester and this needs a long beta test not your simple couple of months on tribble then to live like you do. I work so I dont' have time to do a serious test on tribble. The reason the wiki's have no information is because you keep changing the game mechanics every year, and they just cannot keep up with the changes.
I can only hope that you really do address the forum issues people post.
I've still got 3 free respect tokens left on my Delta toon, earned while climbing the Rank Ladder as a LTS.
I hope those don't evaporate if/when They fiddle with how this is going to be implemented.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I see Bort managed to avoid answering the question as to whether respecs would be free after the skill system changes. Safe to assume they won't be. Especially after the upcoming changes, respec tokens are a nice bit of revenue for Cryptic that I doubt they'd be willing to just give up like that. As someone else mentioned, this is one of the few/only games I know that actually asks that you pay money for something like that....
While I can see your point of view on this, I'm wondering if the reason why the respec question(s) are being avoided may be because they're planning something that they're not willing to tell us about yet. I can see them doing the typical week-long giveaway prior to the season rollout where one of the items is a free respec token, or having that as being one of the options for the "first time" playthrough reward of whatever new episode comes out then.
Either way, I know I'd feel more comfortable if we were allowed just a single free respec token simply because I worry about messing up on my first try when I "retrain" all of my characters under the new system.
For those of us who played before F2P, we all got a free skill respec the last time the skill tree was revamped. I'm sure we'll all get one now.
This is a major change, with no history or threads or wiki pages to tell people which skills will work with how we play. There's also a good chance some skills will be bugged for an unknown period of time. (The ship loadout system is great NOW, not so much at launch.)
Of course everyone will get "a" respec, because all existing skills are gone. To be fair, if they will still charge for respecs then they ought to give us *2* respecs.
With traits and boff powers, there is no charge to change them. So switching to the new systems didn't hurt you if you got your traits or stations wrong the first time. With spec points if you guess wrong you can always earn more points until you fill in every tree.
If it's still 500 zen to correct any captain skill mistakes you make then that's very different. 2+ respecs or torches and pitchforks! Rabble rabble rabble!
You will get a total of 46 Space Points and 10 Ground Points. There are 90 Space Skill Nodes you can purchase, and 20 Ground Skill Nodes. So no, you won't be able to buy everything.
That's a shame
Not as much as you are thinking:
Currently -
spendable : max possible
space = 300,000 : 630,000, ratio = 0.47619...
ground = 100,000 : 180,000 ratio = 0.55555...
New -
spendable : max possible
space = 46 : 90 ratio = 0.51111....
ground = 10 : 20 ratio = 0.5
So the only people being nerfed are pure ground specced characters; an average player can expect an increase in their potential given the vast majority of players spec more into space than ground.
The old system awarded a decreasing Skill improvement (18/18/18/10/10/10/5/5/5) per "pip" purchased, where you could trade say 15 Skill in something you might consider a priority to gain 54 Skill in something you desired as a secondary characteristic, while conversely allowing you to completely ignore one category of high-cost Skills (say Subspace Decompiler) in order to allow for a heavier investment in less expensive Skills (say Graviton Generators). The new system lacks that capability, with each unlock costing just as much as the next. Until we actually get a chance to see what it does in practice, I think your math is a tad simplistic.
My maths demonstrates that this kind of post: (quoted as an example of the kind)
Is wrong based on the information we have currently, given we have very little idea how the new system works.
Now, you are correct to say it is simplified; however, do you have enough information to do the comparison you want to make?
Not simplified, simplistic... none of us has the information needed to make a direct comparison. Like I said, we need to see what it does in practice before saying that a ratio of points spendable has any relevance (given that we don't know that the points in the new thing will do just yet). You could be entirely correct, @daveny could be entirely correct... but we just don't know until we see what we're spending on rather than just how much can be spent on something.
Well, @daveny cannot be entirely correct given he has the wrong number of available skill points.
If you see @lucho80's post which I quoted later on, we know that the difference is the first point of a three node skill gives 55, the second 35, and the last 15 - which means they've effectively cut the options to spec into a skill by a third. Which means we do have enough information to make a generalised comparison - obviously specifics aren't available yet, but it is enough to be an indicator, and apart from the reduced flexibility that comes from taking 9 options down to 3, the revamp is slightly in a typical player's favour, although pure ground characters are getting nerfed.
Instead, please consider fixing existing systems that are broken to the point that they're barely being used. For example...
- Fix existing maps in a new and fun way (like Andoria. It's boring. You could make it a permanent Q's Winter Wonderland. You could add utopia Planetia as a social hub. You could make Starfleet Academy a new adventure zone where we learn about Starfleet's history, chain of command, and other interesting stuff via missions)
...these are just a few ideas off the top of my head, most of which will likely get an eye roll, but it's what the public wants for the most part, and it would help the game feel more like STAR TREK.
Why not just amke starfleet Academy what it is suppose to be...a place to learn! If you don't have good wiki's to send people too, why not make them in the game. This way you can tell the player good skills. While this may not have benefitted experienced players much it would have been a great addition to the game and could have helped a lot.
God I wish I could work for you guys and save this game!
Oh NO. The design looks so horrible. Is there time to update/change or give to community for some input or too late? I know there's lots of work behind it but the icons are just awful and boring....
Guys don't forget that this is WIP and it's not even on tribble yet... Itll be released with S11.5 in the spring!
So yes, there is still time to give thoughts and feedback... Once it is live in tribble server... My prediction later today at night or early next week!
For those saying: if it ain't broke don't fix it...
Please remember that a skill revamp has been the thing most asked since pre-LOR
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Hey...
I just repeated what Bort said in his first post in the thread.
"You will get a total of 46 Space Points and 10 Ground Points. There are 90 Space Skill Nodes you can purchase, and 20 Ground Skill Nodes. So no, you won't be able to buy everything."
Based on that I wasn't entirely wrong.
I know; but you said 56, not 46, the first time. It was the wrong number I was getting at.
I see Bort managed to avoid answering the question as to whether respecs would be free after the skill system changes. Safe to assume they won't be. Especially after the upcoming changes, respec tokens are a nice bit of revenue for Cryptic that I doubt they'd be willing to just give up like that. As someone else mentioned, this is one of the few/only games I know that actually asks that you pay money for something like that....
While I can see your point of view on this, I'm wondering if the reason why the respec question(s) are being avoided may be because they're planning something that they're not willing to tell us about yet. I can see them doing the typical week-long giveaway prior to the season rollout where one of the items is a free respec token, or having that as being one of the options for the "first time" playthrough reward of whatever new episode comes out then.
Either way, I know I'd feel more comfortable if we were allowed just a single free respec token simply because I worry about messing up on my first try when I "retrain" all of my characters under the new system.
For those of us who played before F2P, we all got a free skill respec the last time the skill tree was revamped. I'm sure we'll all get one now.
Assuming you mean a free skill respec on top of the obvious initial "respec" into the new system, then that works for me.
@borticuscryptic : Forgive me if this has already been asked, and I just missed it. Under the current system, I am one of those people who likes setting my skills based upon whatever the powers/abilities my characters, ship, and crew have by using the filtering system on the skill page. Will there still be a way to filter the new skills as I view them in a similar way?
A quick note for folks wanting to experiment with the new System:
When it arrives on Tribble, we'll have a test vendor available that sells free Respec Tokens, as well as bundles of 10,000 Experience Points. So please try it out when it gets patched to Tribble, and send us your feedback!
Jeremy,
I didn't really see anything that addresses the items we have? What about set items?
Ya I now have these engines that add +20 to driver coil, yet driver coil doesn't work that way anymore.
This is not a simple skill change to the game. It is a major overhaul and re-write of the whole game! D&D tried to go simple and easy and it didn't work, it was a grand failure. This is a big computer MMO, not a simple little ap game so it is suppose to be complex and take time to learn.
I'm an old beta tester and this needs a long beta test not your simple couple of months on tribble then to live like you do. I work so I dont' have time to do a serious test on tribble. The reason the wiki's have no information is because you keep changing the game mechanics every year, and they just cannot keep up with the changes.
I can only hope that you really do address the forum issues people post.
Who says Driver Coil doesn't work like that anymore? Just because things are being consolidated, or made into passive effects for choosing certain tracks doesn't mean that they will function any differently. Your engines could, and likely will, still provide the same amount of boost to the stat that used to be called Driver Coil, with no functional difference to the effect of it. The same thing is likely for examples provided above about consoles that boost 2 stats that are currently separate, but will be combined into one amalgam skill in the new system. Those consoles would likely still boost the same stats that they always did by the same amount, though they might need some text clarification to point people to what areas in the revamped consolidated skill they will affect.
What I'm getting at here is that the fundamental mechanics of the skills probably won't be changing with this revamp, it's likely just a new interface for those stats, with some being consolidated to all use the same pool of points, others being made passive boosts unlocked through spending points in certain areas, and at least one just being folded into the abilities that it boosts now as if it's full under the current system. The new skills are then added in their own places to give people more choices, and fill in gaps from consolidations and removals.
That's how I would do it, at least, it seems like the method that require the least amount of work for the desired result.
Edited because I forgot that there were 2 things that I wanted to talk about here.
If you see @lucho80's post which I quoted later on, we know that the difference is the first point of a three node skill gives 55, the second 35, and the last 15 - which means they've effectively cut the options to spec into a skill by a third. Which means we do have enough information to make a generalised comparison - obviously specifics aren't available yet, but it is enough to be an indicator, and apart from the reduced flexibility that comes from taking 9 options down to 3, the revamp is slightly in a typical player's favour, although pure ground characters are getting nerfed.
It quite probably isn't even a nerf for them, since the 5 class-specific skills for each class are all being folded into one. They could probably spec their way back to, or reasonably close to, their old ground skills, with points to spare for the new stuff that will be filling those vacancies.
It will, however, make a character specifically made for ground combat somewhat redundant now.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Comments
Will we be able to respec our skill tree free of charge and captain retrain tokens in the c-store done away with?
Before the trait revamp we had to buy respec tokens from the c-store to reselect our reputation traits. But the trait revamp allowed us to change them whenever we wanted for free.
The only implications I get is that we will still have to buy respec tokens to redo our skill trees.
I'd like to point out the dev blog:
Even with the system being simplified, new players will need to respec several times to find the "right choice" of how to distribute their points. There is no way most players will know exactly how to build their character the first time. Even veteran players will need to experiment with the new system to find what now works best for them since there are so many changes coming.
It's obvious that letting us change around our reputation traits didn't hurt the game in any way. In fact it was a much welcomed improvement, for the most part.
Would it hurt the game, or the company financially, in any way to let us respec out skill trees free of charge whenever we wanted? Of course, like changing around our traits, it would be limited mainly to social zone maps.
I see that graviton generators is going into a new control expertise category, but I see no mention of particle generators anywhere in the blog. What is happening with that skill? Often times players put points into both particle and graviton generators because they both affect gravity wells.
> Would it hurt the game, or the company financially, in any way to let us respec out skill trees free of charge whenever we wanted? Of course, like changing around our traits, it would be limited mainly to social zone maps.
Now THAT would be a welcome change.
Everyone, not just those who maxed Attack patterns.
to be fair threre should have been a reserved post under the initial post for FAQ's that are answered later on in the thread rather than sifting through a ton of posts, its not the EVE forums where we can just go to the next dev post in the thread, or at least i have not found that function yet.
Cryptic for some reason chooses to ignore this age old saying, as the rather long article I saw seems to offer nothing worthwhile, new, useful, or interesting!
Instead, please consider fixing existing systems that are broken to the point that they're barely being used. For example...
- Bridges (The new season should focus on our crew, not another unknown planet in known space. featuring updated versions of classic interiors like the galaxy class, cause like EVERYONE links the unreal engine stuff people post of ship interiors so can we just get decent ones besides voyager already? Heck you could even make them social hubs. We'd take it. at least then we'd see people on the ship and it wouldn't feel lonely)
- STF Elite Queues (the accolade is broken, and the outfits are still ungettable)
- Costume Creator (you've locked pallettes... change it to a standard RGB Slider setup and remove "uniform/offduty/omegaforce/etc" restrictions)
- MERGE THE FACTIONS (As your current way of doing things makes your shard system pointless and separates your userbase in every negative way possible)
- Fix existing maps in a new and fun way (like Andoria. It's boring. You could make it a permanent Q's Winter Wonderland. You could add utopia Planetia as a social hub. You could make Starfleet Academy a new adventure zone where we learn about Starfleet's history, chain of command, and other interesting stuff via missions)
- You could add Battlecloak to more Starfleet Ships (lets face it, the khitomer accords are dead.)
- you could make the episode where the Bajorans are finally caught as being the traitorous scoundrels that they are and exterminated from existence, thus giving Starfleet a new enemy to claim is terrible.
- LIBERATED. BORG. RACE. (or a kit that simply makes you look like a liberated borg)
- Ferenginar. (Cause why not? then feds could FINALLY punch the Ferengi! We've been waiting for years for this!)
...these are just a few ideas off the top of my head, most of which will likely get an eye roll, but it's what the public wants for the most part, and it would help the game feel more like STAR TREK.
I think a -Threat skill would be much more useful than a +Threat. Also healing a team member should generate Threat not just damage being done. This would give a nice teamwork effect for healing tanks that have not figured out how to do enough damage to get npcs firing at his/her ship.
Aside from the "Making the Bajorian's Bad" part. I agree with your recommendations.
Are you paying attention PWE?
Hooray! Finally threat control we can... control
I look forward to seeing this.
3 follow up questions:
1. Does simply speccing into the threat control path (path or single thign to spec into?) give this threat toggle?
2. How does this threat toggle now interact with the cruiser attract fire command? Because the two are very similar in terms of controlling threat. Having two toggles for the same thing could lead to confusion when playing.
3. You listed how many space and ground things we can unlock, but the unlock tracks weren't. Are we able to aquire all unlock tracks at once or will there be a finite number for the passive unlock tracks too?
That's just me speculating. There's lots of ways it could be done that would be both fun and interesting. I was just responding to a proposal that it must be either/or one of only 2 possible ways of dealing with attack patterns. Looks from additional info I hadn't read at that point that they've opted to set the base functionality of the Boff abilities to current max, and IF there are any new skill nodes related to attack patterns they either increase those benefits beyond what we can achieve now or affect them in other ways.
Okay then.
We have, currently, 35 space skills. 4 of which are being converted into unlocks, and a 5th (attack patterns) is evaporating. Down to 30 skills.
Then we're about to watch 5 skills get "compacted" into a mega hyper control skill, 3 more crunch into drain, and both "energy & projectile blah" skills become "weapon blah" skills.
30 - 12 skills that are compacted away + the 4 skills that are created from the crushings = 22 skills holding "most" of the current skill effects.
Since 2 "new" boxes = 85 or 100 skill points, if we spend 44 of our 50 points on "old" skills and 4 more points to unlock the 4 skills converted into unlocks, we'd have 85s or 100s in every current space skill in the game - a feat which even the most ardent space build spender cannot accomplish under the current skill box system. With 2 points to spare for dabbling in new skills, getting 99s in those old weapons skills which is a DPSers dream, or picking the most OP new one and adding it to our 85/100 collection.
Nah, I don't see an issue with replicating current builds... <facepalm>
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
When the trait system was revamped a while back people said pretty much exactly the same things that are being tossed about in this thread ("don't fix what isn't broken," "Cryptic is killing X build," "PWE doesn't listen to anybody," etc, etc...), and you know what, the trait revamp worked out pretty well in the end. I don't see anybody b*tching about that particular set of changes.
Perhaps, just maybe, people should try calming down and waiting to see what will actually happen when the new system goes live and THEN complain about it. The bottom line is that at the moment, we know very little about exactly how the new skill system will actually function or what the exact changes are/will be. Once we have the chance to see the new skills system in action on Tribble, then you can all fly to pieces.
I also fear that, by consolidating and swapping skills around, this will be a stealth nerf to certain things, perhaps even unintentionally in some areas.
Beyond that, I am actually glad they are making an attempt at simplifying the skill system, and using the specialization system as a basis for those changes just makes sense. It will certainly be a boon to newer STO players- though again, there's still that whole, ugly bit about being stuck with the initial choices you make if you're not willing/able to spend the money.
I'm also SUPER psyched about them normalizing damage fall of between beams and cannons, and allowing us to increase our optimal range. As someone who exclusively uses cannons, I feel it's been long past time such a change was implemented.
While I can see your point of view on this, I'm wondering if the reason why the respec question(s) are being avoided may be because they're planning something that they're not willing to tell us about yet. I can see them doing the typical week-long giveaway prior to the season rollout where one of the items is a free respec token, or having that as being one of the options for the "first time" playthrough reward of whatever new episode comes out then.
Either way, I know I'd feel more comfortable if we were allowed just a single free respec token simply because I worry about messing up on my first try when I "retrain" all of my characters under the new system.
For those of us who played before F2P, we all got a free skill respec the last time the skill tree was revamped. I'm sure we'll all get one now.
I agree that the current setup is horrible.
I never liked the 1000 points here but 3000 points there, just cause it's on a higher tree arbitrarily. And the choice of "I can get 3 levels of X vs 1 level of Y. And X is more powerful per level anyway..."
Skills that are pointless, others you have to have or "you suck you noob", and some that are best of the bad choices given to you. Especially with newer mechanics in the game that had to be shoe-horned into some power even if it didn't really make sense; or left off the skill powers altogether (aka buffed by nothing)
Hopefully, the points pools for ground & space are separate; cause if not... you KNOW where all the points will go!
I'm up for a change; but if skill changing still requires us to buy tokens... we better get a pile of them for free when the change happens! None of this: "Go to Tribble to test it out first, because you only get 1 free redo on Holodeck." Tribble sucks ever since you turned off the C-store there since you didn't want people to test drive ships before they bought them!
Jeremy,
I didn't really see anything that addresses the items we have? What about set items?
Ya I now have these engines that add +20 to driver coil, yet driver coil doesn't work that way anymore.
This is not a simple skill change to the game. It is a major overhaul and re-write of the whole game! D&D tried to go simple and easy and it didn't work, it was a grand failure. This is a big computer MMO, not a simple little ap game so it is suppose to be complex and take time to learn.
I'm an old beta tester and this needs a long beta test not your simple couple of months on tribble then to live like you do. I work so I dont' have time to do a serious test on tribble. The reason the wiki's have no information is because you keep changing the game mechanics every year, and they just cannot keep up with the changes.
I can only hope that you really do address the forum issues people post.
I hope those don't evaporate if/when They fiddle with how this is going to be implemented.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This is a major change, with no history or threads or wiki pages to tell people which skills will work with how we play. There's also a good chance some skills will be bugged for an unknown period of time. (The ship loadout system is great NOW, not so much at launch.)
Of course everyone will get "a" respec, because all existing skills are gone. To be fair, if they will still charge for respecs then they ought to give us *2* respecs.
With traits and boff powers, there is no charge to change them. So switching to the new systems didn't hurt you if you got your traits or stations wrong the first time. With spec points if you guess wrong you can always earn more points until you fill in every tree.
If it's still 500 zen to correct any captain skill mistakes you make then that's very different. 2+ respecs or torches and pitchforks! Rabble rabble rabble!
Well, @daveny cannot be entirely correct given he has the wrong number of available skill points.
If you see @lucho80's post which I quoted later on, we know that the difference is the first point of a three node skill gives 55, the second 35, and the last 15 - which means they've effectively cut the options to spec into a skill by a third. Which means we do have enough information to make a generalised comparison - obviously specifics aren't available yet, but it is enough to be an indicator, and apart from the reduced flexibility that comes from taking 9 options down to 3, the revamp is slightly in a typical player's favour, although pure ground characters are getting nerfed.
Why not just amke starfleet Academy what it is suppose to be...a place to learn! If you don't have good wiki's to send people too, why not make them in the game. This way you can tell the player good skills. While this may not have benefitted experienced players much it would have been a great addition to the game and could have helped a lot.
God I wish I could work for you guys and save this game!
Ouch, that layout is aweful.
So yes, there is still time to give thoughts and feedback... Once it is live in tribble server... My prediction later today at night or early next week!
For those saying: if it ain't broke don't fix it...
Please remember that a skill revamp has been the thing most asked since pre-LOR
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I know; but you said 56, not 46, the first time. It was the wrong number I was getting at.
Assuming you mean a free skill respec on top of the obvious initial "respec" into the new system, then that works for me.
@borticuscryptic : Forgive me if this has already been asked, and I just missed it. Under the current system, I am one of those people who likes setting my skills based upon whatever the powers/abilities my characters, ship, and crew have by using the filtering system on the skill page. Will there still be a way to filter the new skills as I view them in a similar way?
Who says Driver Coil doesn't work like that anymore? Just because things are being consolidated, or made into passive effects for choosing certain tracks doesn't mean that they will function any differently. Your engines could, and likely will, still provide the same amount of boost to the stat that used to be called Driver Coil, with no functional difference to the effect of it. The same thing is likely for examples provided above about consoles that boost 2 stats that are currently separate, but will be combined into one amalgam skill in the new system. Those consoles would likely still boost the same stats that they always did by the same amount, though they might need some text clarification to point people to what areas in the revamped consolidated skill they will affect.
What I'm getting at here is that the fundamental mechanics of the skills probably won't be changing with this revamp, it's likely just a new interface for those stats, with some being consolidated to all use the same pool of points, others being made passive boosts unlocked through spending points in certain areas, and at least one just being folded into the abilities that it boosts now as if it's full under the current system. The new skills are then added in their own places to give people more choices, and fill in gaps from consolidations and removals.
That's how I would do it, at least, it seems like the method that require the least amount of work for the desired result.
Edited because I forgot that there were 2 things that I wanted to talk about here.
It quite probably isn't even a nerf for them, since the 5 class-specific skills for each class are all being folded into one. They could probably spec their way back to, or reasonably close to, their old ground skills, with points to spare for the new stuff that will be filling those vacancies.
It will, however, make a character specifically made for ground combat somewhat redundant now.
Yes it will make a character specifically made for ground combat somewhat redundant now.