Since retconning is ok, I'll ask again, why not retcon the show to make Supergirl a transgender Asian muslim dwarf with bipolar disorder?
To which I will reply - why? Other than to make fun of what you're calling "political correctness"?
The character of Supergirl, however, can't be bipolar, as mental stability is one of the defining traits. Also, as Islam is a Terran religion, it wouldn't make sense for Kara Zor-El, who left Krypton as a teenager, to be an adherent. However, if the best actress for the role were Asian, why not?
And of course "retconning is okay". Do you have the vaguest idea how many times Superman's been retconned since 1939? If we're not allowed to change things, then he shouldn't be an alien, he shouldn't be able to fly, and explosions should hurt him - his original powerset was that he was a man with "incredible strength", who could leap the oddly specific distance of 1/8th of a mile, and whose skin couldn't be pierced by anything short of "an exploding shell".
Also, Batman should carry a pair of .45s and crack jokes as the bad guys die. And Green Lantern should be wearing itchy-looking flannel PJs and wielding a magical ring that's vulnerable to wood. (Which is an especially funny weakness when you think about Alan Scott's most recent retcon...)
Since retconning is ok, I'll ask again, why not retcon the show to make Supergirl a transgender Asian muslim dwarf with bipolar disorder?
Because they realize that probably wouldn't play well/get big ratings over the long term on a Network TV show. Your response is Apples and Oranges with a bit of hyperbole thrown in. As was also stated above by someone - no one had a cow when Laurence Fishburne played a black Perry White in the 'Man of Steel' feature film (with no prior Black Perry White in any incarnation of Superman comics/TV series/Films previously); so to suddenly call this particular production out for such a change seems ridiculous.
Not saying you should like or have to agree with the change; but it's hardly either unprecedented or all that rare in modern takes on established comic book superhero characters.
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To which I will reply - why? Other than to make fun of what you're calling "political correctness"?
The character of Supergirl, however, can't be bipolar, as mental stability is one of the defining traits. Also, as Islam is a Terran religion, it wouldn't make sense for Kara Zor-El, who left Krypton as a teenager, to be an adherent. However, if the best actress for the role were Asian, why not?
And of course "retconning is okay". Do you have the vaguest idea how many times Superman's been retconned since 1939? If we're not allowed to change things, then he shouldn't be an alien, he shouldn't be able to fly, and explosions should hurt him - his original powerset was that he was a man with "incredible strength", who could leap the oddly specific distance of 1/8th of a mile, and whose skin couldn't be pierced by anything short of "an exploding shell".
Also, Batman should carry a pair of .45s and crack jokes as the bad guys die. And Green Lantern should be wearing itchy-looking flannel PJs and wielding a magical ring that's vulnerable to wood. (Which is an especially funny weakness when you think about Alan Scott's most recent retcon...)
Actually I liked that older superman more because he was weaker. Its no fun having superman be a god because even the real threats to him aren't really threats.
And I'll ask the same question for changing Jimmy Olsen. It's not necessary IMO.
That's just it, it's your opinion. I have no issue with James Olsen being a black actor at all. I think it's a refreshing change to the normal way James Olsen is said to be. You don't have to agree that a Black James Olsen is a good thing, but it is happening whether you like it or not. There are only two things to do with this situation: accept it or not. It's your choice.
And I'll ask the same question for changing Jimmy Olsen. It's not necessary IMO.
There is nothing particular about the character that screams "this must be a white guy". So they are no more changing him then having a different artist paint him.
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. And Green Lantern should be wearing itchy-looking flannel PJs and wielding a magical ring that's vulnerable to wood. (Which is an especially funny weakness when you think about Alan Scott's most recent retcon...)
75+ years of printed canon, various television programs and feature films portraying the character as Caucasian isn't enough?
So? James Olsen being caucasian in previous works doesn't mean he has to remain caucasian in Supergirl... besides, I doubt James Olsen ever had any interaction with Kara Zor-el in the comics just by herself.
Pissy? No, not at all. I didn't see the need to change his ethnicity though.
Really? Because you sound mad. Almost like some white protestant male from the south complaining about "political correctness" corrupting our childrenz.
So? James Olsen being caucasian in previous works doesn't mean he has to remain caucasian in Supergirl...
Because you're fine with retcons...other people aren't. My girlfriend's not fine with retcons, just like I'm not. She doesn't know anything Jimmy...but I still can't get her to watch BSG cause the first thing she'll say is Starbuck wasn't a woman - he was a man. Some people just do not like retcons.
So people that don't like things you like are stupid and petty?
So portraying her as a basketcase 20-something from a rom-com supports her having mental stability how?
Because you're fine with retcons...other people aren't. My girlfriend's not fine with retcons, just like I'm not. She doesn't know anything Jimmy...but I still can't get her to watch BSG cause the first thing she'll say is Starbuck wasn't a woman - he was a man. Some people just do not like retcons.
This isn't a retcon though. It's a new interpretation. If it were in the Prime DC Comics Universe, then it would be a retcon, but this is a new continuity, with no impact on the source material whatsoever.
75+ years of printed canon, various television programs and feature films portraying the character as Caucasian isn't enough?
Apparently not.
I've got to say that I disagree with you on this one. It's perhaps slightly surprising in the wake of all that history, but it's not unprecedented and the character isn't significantly altered by having a black man play the role.
Modern audiences won't bat an eye. Had they cast a black man in the role of Superman, that would be noteworthy. Not because a dark-skinned Superman would be a bad thing, but because that's not the image people have in their heads when you talk about Superman.
(Unless of course, we're talking about Muhammed Ali...)
Try asking a non-fanboy whether they can picture a black man as Jimmy Olsen and most of them are going to say "Jimmy Who?"
If there's anything wrong with the casting, it's that I expect Jimmy Olsen to be the youngest guy in the room and that he's the one gushing over Kara and not the other way around. This guy seems too self-assured.
But in the clip I saw, they handled it beautifully. She calls him Jimmy -- acknowledging that we're talking about Superman's Pal -- and then he corrects her and calls himself James, establishing that this is not quite the Jimmy Olsen we might be familiar with and moving forward with it.
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This isn't a retcon though. It's a new interpretation. If it were in the Prime DC Comics Universe, then it would be a retcon, but this is a new continuity, with no impact on the source material whatsoever.
That's a terminology argument, getting into the word having specific meaning to one group and a looser meaning to another group. Man, I used to argue words with folks all the time - as people came along redefining them (funny, thinking about it, eh? redefining and all that, ahem). I gave up though, cause it was pointless. People would use the terms the way they would, would cause all sorts of confusion, and so it generally got into asking folks what they meant when they said something...which tended to TRIBBLE them off, cause they couldn't imagine how anybody could have another definition of the term (funny, thinking about it, eh? since their definition was a redefinition and all).
So yep, retcon...not talking about changing the continuity of the source...just talking about changing the history of a subject. It basically taking on more meaning than it had while losing part of the meaning it had. Not just what retcon meant, but also including various alterations that take place in remakes and reboots. It's a new interpretation...so to speak. So you should be fine with that, no?
So portraying her as a basketcase 20-something from a rom-com supports her having mental stability how?
Y'know, as much as I liked Helen Slater in the role -- bad as the movie was -- this version of Kara seems a lot more (ironically) human.
SPOILERS!!!!!
Taking some cues from the sneak peek, we see a young woman who's had to hide her powers and origins to the extent that she doesn't even know if she's bulletproof. She's trying to live a normal human life but she doesn't quite fit in and she's unsure of herself. She's living in the shadow of Superman and doesn't see herself as that kind of a hero. Somehow she's ended up as an assistant to a very high-maintenance boss (did Clark get her the job?) who seems to have a knack for making the people around her very insecure.
Then there's this event. A person she loves like a sister is about to die in a plane crash and Kara's the only one who can stop that from happening. She sets aside her insecurities and fears and discovers what she's really capable of.
If Kara were as 'perfect' as Helen Slater's version was, there wouldn't be a lot of character growth. There'd be no epiphany. And no real reason to have an entire TV series around it other than eye-candy with an S on her chest.
Yeah, she's a "basketcase". That's what I like about it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I've got to say that I disagree with you on this one. It's perhaps slightly surprising in the wake of all that history, but it's not unprecedented and the character isn't significantly altered by having a black man play the role.
Modern audiences won't bat an eye. Had they cast a black man in the role of Superman, that would be noteworthy. Not because a dark-skinned Superman would be a bad thing, but because that's not the image people have in their heads when you talk about Superman.
(Unless of course, we're talking about Muhammed Ali...)
Try asking a non-fanboy whether they can picture a black man as Jimmy Olsen and most of them are going to say "Jimmy Who?"
If there's anything wrong with the casting, it's that I expect Jimmy Olsen to be the youngest guy in the room and that he's the one gushing over Kara and not the other way around. This guy seems too self-assured.
But in the clip I saw, they handled it beautifully. She calls him Jimmy -- acknowledging that we're talking about Superman's Pal -- and then he corrects her and calls himself James, establishing that this is not quite the Jimmy Olsen we might be familiar with and moving forward with it.
Which I guess gets into the fanboi thing, cause even if Jimmy were being portrayed by a white male actor...that portrayal of Jimmy as James doesn't fit either.
It gets into much of the upset and uproar, disapproval, whatever level it is at - even a shrug/whatever and complete disinterest that takes place with many things...
So many things that have been redone, remade, etc, etc, etc...and how...there's been that kind of reaction, no? There's been so much of it recently, because things have been rehashed so much recently.
Want to have a black male character in a key supporting role as a potential romantic interest for the lead character? Why not? Who cares if her love interest is white, black, or purple with green polka dots? Hell, who cares if her love interest is even male or female?
But changing a character and keeping the name? New Coke didn't do so well.
Hell, it's like the following...
Tom: Hey, Jerry, you okay? What's wrong?
Jerry: Huh, what do you mean?
Tom: You don't seem yourself.
Y'know, as much as I liked Helen Slater in the role -- bad as the movie was -- this version of Kara seems a lot more (ironically) human.
Yes, it allows for character growth...allowing one to view that character going from point A to point B...gets into an origin story sort of thing that you get to follow along with as the character becomes something more familiar or if not familiar something more heroic as befitting the theme.
It's a common thing, it's almost formulaic if not downright formulaic...
...my question was more of a did he even watch the trailer or is he just SJW pontificating.
Which I guess gets into the fanboi thing, cause even if Jimmy were being portrayed by a white male actor...that portrayal of Jimmy as James doesn't fit either.
As near as I can tell Superman has been around for many years at this point within their continuity. James was Jimmy, but he grew up by the time Kara is taking her place in the superhuman scene. This is not Superman Year 1. This is more like Superman Year 10, Kara Year 1. This seems to be confirmed by an older Jimmy, an older Cat Grant who used to work with Clark but now runs a magazine, etc.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Y'know, as much as I liked Helen Slater in the role -- bad as the movie was -- this version of Kara seems a lot more (ironically) human.
One of my favorite moments from the Helen Slater version was when she's talking to a human classmate and makes a comment about how she wasn't as good at multidimensional geometry before she came to Earth. :P She did a REALLY good job of capturing the "strange visitor from another planet" angle. Of course in that movie Kara had only been on Earth a matter of days. She didn't really know her powers or the planet.
As near as I can tell Superman has been around for many years at this point within their continuity. James was Jimmy, but he grew up by the time Kara is taking her place in the superhuman scene. This is not Superman Year 1. This is more like Superman Year 10, Kara Year 1. This seems to be confirmed by an older Jimmy, an older Cat Grant who used to work with Clark but now runs a magazine, etc.
Indeed. Jimmy--um, I mean James--Olsen was pretty self-assured and confident of himself in the later years of the Silver Age and during the Bronze Age. In fact, he pretty much had celebrity status as a master of disguise, Superman's best friend, and photographer. He could also fight moderately well. So clearly, this is that Jimmy--I mean James--Olsen who just happens to be played by a black man in this new show.
Hay Guys the new Super-girl series pilot is out and I have to say from the did not do the Pilot justice its actually vary good show and looks vary promising compare whats out there now the only problem I see that the writers cannot avoid is SUPERMAN Here is why through out the Episode they kept comparing Kora to Superman and also making inside jokes of him they have Jimmy Olson who likes to be called James or Jim is in the show as well and I am looking forword for the new season next fall
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The character of Supergirl, however, can't be bipolar, as mental stability is one of the defining traits. Also, as Islam is a Terran religion, it wouldn't make sense for Kara Zor-El, who left Krypton as a teenager, to be an adherent. However, if the best actress for the role were Asian, why not?
And of course "retconning is okay". Do you have the vaguest idea how many times Superman's been retconned since 1939? If we're not allowed to change things, then he shouldn't be an alien, he shouldn't be able to fly, and explosions should hurt him - his original powerset was that he was a man with "incredible strength", who could leap the oddly specific distance of 1/8th of a mile, and whose skin couldn't be pierced by anything short of "an exploding shell".
Also, Batman should carry a pair of .45s and crack jokes as the bad guys die. And Green Lantern should be wearing itchy-looking flannel PJs and wielding a magical ring that's vulnerable to wood. (Which is an especially funny weakness when you think about Alan Scott's most recent retcon...)
Because they realize that probably wouldn't play well/get big ratings over the long term on a Network TV show. Your response is Apples and Oranges with a bit of hyperbole thrown in. As was also stated above by someone - no one had a cow when Laurence Fishburne played a black Perry White in the 'Man of Steel' feature film (with no prior Black Perry White in any incarnation of Superman comics/TV series/Films previously); so to suddenly call this particular production out for such a change seems ridiculous.
Not saying you should like or have to agree with the change; but it's hardly either unprecedented or all that rare in modern takes on established comic book superhero characters.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Actually I liked that older superman more because he was weaker. Its no fun having superman be a god because even the real threats to him aren't really threats.
Then why are you still here?
HA! I just got it!
*sigh* it's been a long day...
Let me guess, you're one of those people that got pissy over Heimdall. :rolleyes:
Really? Because you sound mad. Almost like some white protestant male from the south complaining about "political correctness" corrupting our childrenz.
So people that don't like things you like are stupid and petty?
So portraying her as a basketcase 20-something from a rom-com supports her having mental stability how?
Because you're fine with retcons...other people aren't. My girlfriend's not fine with retcons, just like I'm not. She doesn't know anything Jimmy...but I still can't get her to watch BSG cause the first thing she'll say is Starbuck wasn't a woman - he was a man. Some people just do not like retcons.
This isn't a retcon though. It's a new interpretation. If it were in the Prime DC Comics Universe, then it would be a retcon, but this is a new continuity, with no impact on the source material whatsoever.
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Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Apparently not.
I've got to say that I disagree with you on this one. It's perhaps slightly surprising in the wake of all that history, but it's not unprecedented and the character isn't significantly altered by having a black man play the role.
Modern audiences won't bat an eye. Had they cast a black man in the role of Superman, that would be noteworthy. Not because a dark-skinned Superman would be a bad thing, but because that's not the image people have in their heads when you talk about Superman.
(Unless of course, we're talking about Muhammed Ali...)
Try asking a non-fanboy whether they can picture a black man as Jimmy Olsen and most of them are going to say "Jimmy Who?"
If there's anything wrong with the casting, it's that I expect Jimmy Olsen to be the youngest guy in the room and that he's the one gushing over Kara and not the other way around. This guy seems too self-assured.
But in the clip I saw, they handled it beautifully. She calls him Jimmy -- acknowledging that we're talking about Superman's Pal -- and then he corrects her and calls himself James, establishing that this is not quite the Jimmy Olsen we might be familiar with and moving forward with it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
That's a terminology argument, getting into the word having specific meaning to one group and a looser meaning to another group. Man, I used to argue words with folks all the time - as people came along redefining them (funny, thinking about it, eh? redefining and all that, ahem). I gave up though, cause it was pointless. People would use the terms the way they would, would cause all sorts of confusion, and so it generally got into asking folks what they meant when they said something...which tended to TRIBBLE them off, cause they couldn't imagine how anybody could have another definition of the term (funny, thinking about it, eh? since their definition was a redefinition and all).
So yep, retcon...not talking about changing the continuity of the source...just talking about changing the history of a subject. It basically taking on more meaning than it had while losing part of the meaning it had. Not just what retcon meant, but also including various alterations that take place in remakes and reboots. It's a new interpretation...so to speak. So you should be fine with that, no?
Y'know, as much as I liked Helen Slater in the role -- bad as the movie was -- this version of Kara seems a lot more (ironically) human.
SPOILERS!!!!!
Taking some cues from the sneak peek, we see a young woman who's had to hide her powers and origins to the extent that she doesn't even know if she's bulletproof. She's trying to live a normal human life but she doesn't quite fit in and she's unsure of herself. She's living in the shadow of Superman and doesn't see herself as that kind of a hero. Somehow she's ended up as an assistant to a very high-maintenance boss (did Clark get her the job?) who seems to have a knack for making the people around her very insecure.
Then there's this event. A person she loves like a sister is about to die in a plane crash and Kara's the only one who can stop that from happening. She sets aside her insecurities and fears and discovers what she's really capable of.
If Kara were as 'perfect' as Helen Slater's version was, there wouldn't be a lot of character growth. There'd be no epiphany. And no real reason to have an entire TV series around it other than eye-candy with an S on her chest.
Yeah, she's a "basketcase". That's what I like about it.
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Which I guess gets into the fanboi thing, cause even if Jimmy were being portrayed by a white male actor...that portrayal of Jimmy as James doesn't fit either.
It gets into much of the upset and uproar, disapproval, whatever level it is at - even a shrug/whatever and complete disinterest that takes place with many things...
So many things that have been redone, remade, etc, etc, etc...and how...there's been that kind of reaction, no? There's been so much of it recently, because things have been rehashed so much recently.
Want to have a black male character in a key supporting role as a potential romantic interest for the lead character? Why not? Who cares if her love interest is white, black, or purple with green polka dots? Hell, who cares if her love interest is even male or female?
But changing a character and keeping the name? New Coke didn't do so well.
Hell, it's like the following...
Tom: Hey, Jerry, you okay? What's wrong?
Jerry: Huh, what do you mean?
Tom: You don't seem yourself.
...and it's that simple.
Jimmy Olsen doesn't seem himself.
Yes, it allows for character growth...allowing one to view that character going from point A to point B...gets into an origin story sort of thing that you get to follow along with as the character becomes something more familiar or if not familiar something more heroic as befitting the theme.
It's a common thing, it's almost formulaic if not downright formulaic...
...my question was more of a did he even watch the trailer or is he just SJW pontificating.
My character Tsin'xing
Indeed. Jimmy--um, I mean James--Olsen was pretty self-assured and confident of himself in the later years of the Silver Age and during the Bronze Age. In fact, he pretty much had celebrity status as a master of disguise, Superman's best friend, and photographer. He could also fight moderately well. So clearly, this is that Jimmy--I mean James--Olsen who just happens to be played by a black man in this new show.
Yeah, he never gets the good superpowers and he rarely gets bad ones at that.
My character Tsin'xing