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Science Ships?

layanaxlayanax Member Posts: 3 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Federation Discussion
A group of friends and I recently returned to STO as Delta recruits. I have been taking on the role of a science captain and was wondering which ships you would suggest from tier 5 onwards. Obviously lobi ships are not an option right now, but the c-store ships are fair game.

Alternatively, what is a good resource to read up on endgame science ships? Google usually points me to sites which are 2 or 3 years old and thus rather outdated.

Thanks for the help!
Post edited by layanax on
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Comments

  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I don't think much has been written on "modern" science ships (vs. those two year old posts) so there's not much "reading material" on science ships...

    But, there is a semi-effective "pattern" for at least a "passable" science ship:

    1. Grab and slot L15 Science crafting trait.

    2. Make sure your ship has 5x science consoles. Stock up on particle generator skill everywhere possible - both deflectors, conductive RCS module, exotic particle generator with bonus partgen mod, etc. You want 400, because with the aforementioned sci trait all exotic damage will crit 100%. At 300 PartGens, you'll have a 75% crit rate, etc.

    3. Grav Wells, TBRs, Photonic Shockwaves are usually the "go to" Exotic damage powers. Having the TBR-Puller DOff is an excellent aid to prevent bad TBR scatter.

    4. ???

    5. Profit.

    Some other thoughts:

    1. Pathfinder has Lt Tac and Lt Universal (usually read: Tac). BFaW II, AP-B I, Torp Spread I, Tac Team I - aka "the usual contenders" for tac skills / buffs, can fit into that collection. Combined with even an ~250 Part Gen and relying only on GW III for "exotic" damage, I'm "averaging" 8k-9k on ISA runs where I'm parsed - and cracked 11k with a friendly recluse spamming mesh weavers :P The Pathfinder also has this "lovely" trait that grants bonus HP every time a shield heal is used - said trait has either saved my bacon, or severely forstalled the inevitable - on many a run since I got it if I'm spacing the shield heals appropriately...

    2. Vesta & Wells (C-store and Lockbox, respectively) are generally still considered the #2 and #1 Sci Vessels at FT5U (T5U-11), especially if backed up with a couple of starship traits.

    3. Stepping back into Lobi Territory (remember, a massive stockpile of EC gets you here too), the Uni Cmdr on the Recluse and Tal'Shiar Adapted Battlecruisers can make them into "effective" science ships. More the Tal'Shiar AB with it's sensor analysis...
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • gl2814egl2814e Member Posts: 328 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    On a related note, is the T5-U Dyson Recon Destroyer Warbird viable for a Romulan Science Commanders? I'm feeling some kind of mad pull to go Romulan full-time as a non-Scimitar Commander.

    I was thinking of going for a non-Gravity Well/tractor beam Commander with the option to go 'beast mode' in a pinch, but don't know if the effort would be worthwhile. (Thinking Protonic Polaron weapons to work with the fused cannons and be able to cheap out a little and use the two piece Jem'Hadar set.)

    Or is there a better option out there for Romulan science officers?


    ***I'm sorry, I should've posted this in the Romulan fleetyards sub-forum.***
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    gl2814e wrote: »
    On a related note, is the T5-U Dyson Recon Destroyer Warbird viable for a Romulan Science Commanders? I'm feeling some kind of mad pull to go Romulan full-time as a non-Scimitar Commander.

    I was thinking of going for a non-Gravity Well/tractor beam Commander with the option to go 'beast mode' in a pinch, but don't know if the effort would be worthwhile. (Thinking Protonic Polaron weapons to work with the fused cannons and be able to cheap out a little and use the two piece Jem'Hadar set.)

    Or is there a better option out there for Romulan science officers?


    ***I'm sorry, I should've posted this in the Romulan fleetyards sub-forum.***
    Should be. You won't have a ship trait, but that's not a big deal.

    The D'Deridex T6 has a LTC Sci station, and a LT universal. You don't get the heavy hitting science abilities but it's another option.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    The T6 Pathfinder/Long Range Science Ship is the best endgame Science ship at present.

    Meh, the Vesta T5-U and Palisade are still better IMO. I don't like the console layout (plus you only get 10), but I will agree the boff seating is good. The trait is excellent if you love running a heal boat.
  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    You should all be flying the Dauntless, it's pretty OP.

    At least at T6. T5-U ships like the Palisade, Wells, and Vesta are still kind of great. I'm just waiting for a T6 Nebula or maybe a Wells if it gets the two hybrid seat treatment.

    Anything with more than a science commander seat is a waste with AHoD.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    fatman592 wrote: »
    You should all be flying the Dauntless, it's pretty OP.

    Dauntless would be nice if it had an extra tac console.
  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Dauntless would be nice if it had an extra tac console.

    Having used the Dauntless for the past few months, getting damage out of it isn't a problem, the problem is how fragile it is. I actually fly the thing like an old speed-tank escort. I don't use my tac console slots for tac consoles anyway, so anything less than a 6th science console slot is all the same to me.

    I just want a ship with the following layout:

    Cmdr Sci
    Lt.Cmdr Eng/Intel
    Lt.Cmdr Tac/Pilot
    Lt Uni
    Ens Uni

    3/5/3 consoles

    That seems pretty much optimal.
  • battykoda0battykoda0 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    gl2814e wrote: »
    On a related note, is the T5-U Dyson Recon Destroyer Warbird viable for a Romulan Science Commanders? I'm feeling some kind of mad pull to go Romulan full-time as a non-Scimitar Commander.

    I was thinking of going for a non-Gravity Well/tractor beam Commander with the option to go 'beast mode' in a pinch, but don't know if the effort would be worthwhile. (Thinking Protonic Polaron weapons to work with the fused cannons and be able to cheap out a little and use the two piece Jem'Hadar set.)

    Or is there a better option out there for Romulan science officers?


    ***I'm sorry, I should've posted this in the Romulan fleetyards sub-forum.***

    The commander seat is broken and has been for a while. I wouldn't buy them until they are fixed.
    Wow. There is a new KDF Science ship. I'll be!
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    The ten console issue will be resolved when the Fleet version makes an appearance.

    Though I have to say, whilst I do maintain the optinion that the Pathfinder is the most effective sci ship, I don't use mine very often at all.

    My Sci ship (with sci character) of choice is the FT5-U Rhode Island. I have been using mine since the moment it became available during season six (2012) and the one and only thing that would make me 'mothball' that ship would be a T6 Nova class.


    Again, the eventual Fleet Dauntless could well address that.

    they do a tier 6 nova I am DOWN.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • birzarkbirzark Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I have built 2 exotic damage build one for myself and one for a fleetmate and the 2 ships were the pathfinder and scryer. Both ships are really nice and even if you don't like the ship, the scryer has a great trait with it. I like the scryer as it has access to OSS3 and has a good boff layout. The pathfinder can take a punishment and its a fun ship to fly. Both ships are very versatile in their own right. The dauntless isn't science focused enough to be a really true science ship.
  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    birzark wrote: »
    The dauntless isn't science focused enough to be a really true science ship.

    No you di-n't!

    That's because the Dauntless is so OP it is better than any classic Cmdr/Lt.Cmdr science ship. When I first looked at the Dauntless, I lol'ed. But then I played around with different builds and I'm convinced, for PvE, no other science ship has the sheer build synergies to match it.

    It's also the most fun science ship I've ever had.
  • birzarkbirzark Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    fatman592 wrote: »
    No you di-n't!

    That's because the Dauntless is so OP it is better than any classic Cmdr/Lt.Cmdr science ship. When I first looked at the Dauntless, I lol'ed. But then I played around with different builds and I'm convinced, for PvE, no other science ship has the sheer build synergies to match it.

    It's also the most fun science ship I've ever had.

    I'm not saying it cant be a versatile ship I'm just saying going for exotic damage build i believe Scryer and Pathfinder can do it better. You get a lot of your damage from your beams where as my sci abilities do most of my DPS.
  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    birzark wrote: »
    I'm not saying it cant be a versatile ship I'm just saying going for exotic damage build i believe Scryer and Pathfinder can do it better. You get a lot of your damage from your beams where as my sci abilities do most of my DPS.

    On an average ISA PUG I get:

    Beams: 7-9k
    Gravity well (including aftershocks): 3-6k
    TBR2: 3-6k
    Emission cloud: 4-5k

    My pargen damage always outclasses my beams. Now if we factor plasma explosions (usually 5 or 6k), of course my sci powers and guns come in about even. My damage ranges based on piloting and such, but generally my Dauntless achieves around 25-35k depending on the PUG group and my piloting.

    I really don't see how the Dauntless isn't a true science ship in your mind. Because it lacks a second Lt.Cmdr science seat? AHoD basically gives me 2 science commander stations.

    EDIT: I'm not arguing that the Scryer and the Pathfinder aren't great ships. I own the Scryer and liked it for a time. I don't have the Pathfinder because, as I said, having a Cmdr/Lt.Cmdr is a waste now.
  • uniclonusuniclonus Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Well, this seems like a good enough thread to ask...
    Having not really done a Science character yet, I decided to make my Delta Recruit a Fed Science officer. Having gotten to 52 already and still sitting in my level 40 ship, I've hit a minor snag: I don't know what sort of build or even ship to go for now.

    I think buildwise I'm wanting to go the Exotic route. The whole stacking PartGens to the ceiling kind of thing. I kind of like the idea of Grav Well followed by a Particle Emission torpedo spread. Seems fun. Are there any other spread-able torpedos that do AOE-type damage and/or benefit from PartGen?
    Related question, can anyone point me to some build ideas for an Exotic or maybe even a Exotic/Torpedo Boat hybrid? Kinda need help on the whole shebang: Ship, loadout, traits, skills, Specializations, etc. You name it, I need some advice on it for Science.

    As for ship... I supposeI'd be trying to decide between the Pathfinder and Dauntless. Pathfinder seems more Science-y, but the Dauntless would allow Spread 3 which seems particularly mean and overkill.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    fatman592 wrote: »

    Only a Lt Eng BOFF station made the Dauntless an automatic pass for me. Have to say too, that looks like a suicidal build. :P

    Got to ask, when you say "pug" - channel pug or queue pug?
  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Only a Lt Eng BOFF station made the Dauntless an automatic pass for me. Have to say too, that looks like a suicidal build. :P

    Got to ask, when you say "pug" - channel pug or queue pug?

    I rely pretty heavily on the additional health buffer from the Intel specialization. Also I fly at max speed for defense. But you're right, ever since the tachyon beam buff, I do see the respawn button more.

    And I mean just queuing up. While I'm a member of a couple DPS channels. I know I'm too impatient for "wfp" and my TBR is annoying lol.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    fatman592 wrote: »
    I rely pretty heavily on the additional health buffer from the Intel specialization. Also I fly at max speed for defense. But you're right, ever since the tachyon beam buff, I do see the respawn button more.

    And I mean just queuing up. While I'm a member of a couple DPS channels. I know I'm too impatient for "wfp" and my TBR is annoying lol.

    I tend to go a little overboard on the defensive side...guarantees I'll never rock the DPS, heh. I linked your build in another thread, jellico's ISA thread and linked this thread in general as well, cause a guy had mentioned issues with his Sci boat in ISA.
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I would personally recommend the Scryer over the Pathfinder, on the grounds of it being able to slot higher level Intel abilities (OsS3 + GW3 or TR3), and if going for more single-target debuffing, is able to stack Intel Scan alongside Sensor Analysis at the same time (ironically, its console lets it debuff a group of enemies; so both combined could make it more potent).

    However, both are solid T6s. Scryer for major spikes in damage (from Intel Scan and OsS3), and Pathfinder for a more stable and consistent damage rate.

    Dauntless makes for a great Science Torpedo Boat or Aux Phaser Boat, thanks to all that Tac seating, and some access to GW + APB + ITurb1 (maybe add a Doffed BO on a rear Omni).

    On the T5 level, The Temporal Wells and Vesta are pretty solid contenders for Sci ships, alongside the Voth Palisade.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I tend to go a little overboard on the defensive side...guarantees I'll never rock the DPS, heh.

    I do the same but I don't seem to do too badly with dps when I fly aggressively, most of the time though I play it like a toolkit, right combos for the job and all that.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I tend to go a little overboard on the defensive side...guarantees I'll never rock the DPS, heh. I linked your build in another thread, jellico's ISA thread and linked this thread in general as well, cause a guy had mentioned issues with his Sci boat in ISA.

    My build is like a sci glass cannon lol. But yeah, somewhere in between is probably more useful. I used to rock attack pattern delta and a neutronium for some resists. But the Dauntless would be perfect if I could have doffed A2D and 2 EPtX powers.

    I do think that shield stripping is a little much, or that power insulators is underperforming as a skill, so I feel that person's pain.
  • layanaxlayanax Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I bought the Pathfinder and the Scryer. I got a +21% exotic damage universal console from a lock box as well through sheer luck.

    Thanks for all your answers, it was a good beginning to get some grasp of the somewhat convoluted game systems.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I would personally recommend the Scryer over the Pathfinder, on the grounds of it being able to slot higher level Intel abilities (OsS3 + GW3 or TR3), and if going for more single-target debuffing, is able to stack Intel Scan alongside Sensor Analysis at the same time (ironically, its console lets it debuff a group of enemies; so both combined could make it more potent).

    However, both are solid T6s. Scryer for major spikes in damage (from Intel Scan and OsS3), and Pathfinder for a more stable and consistent damage rate.

    Dauntless makes for a great Science Torpedo Boat or Aux Phaser Boat, thanks to all that Tac seating, and some access to GW + APB + ITurb1 (maybe add a Doffed BO on a rear Omni).

    On the T5 level, The Temporal Wells and Vesta are pretty solid contenders for Sci ships, alongside the Voth Palisade.

    The thing to remember with Aux Power and TBR is that unless you want a strong pushaway effect, you can care less about Aux Power on TBR. If all you want is the damage, you should care less about Aux.

    Grav Well is a different story, but TBR is one of the rare Science BOFF abilities where Aux Power isn't important to it.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • dratikusdratikus Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    My science captain has a T6 Exploration Cruiser. http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=t6beamboat_9893
  • coruunascoruunas Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I've been having a lot of luck with the dauntless. Can't recall the exact specs right off the top of my head.

    Liking the combo of IT3 and GW 1, might with emission plasma torps on TS3. Inhibiting secondary deflector. Need one more APC to get my ISo cannon. Using the torp and console from hazari set cant recall what it is off the top of my head. Once I added a resall console it seemed a lot less squishy.
  • synfoolasynfoola Member Posts: 156 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Thanks to the op and the contributors for this thread. My DR is a Sci Cap and I've been wondering about many of the same things listed throughout the thread. In fact, in some instances, Im still wondering. Lol

    I honestly don't know which ship to push for on this cap. She's going to mostly likely be a partigen beams + 1 torp while throwing GW and TBR around. The only thing I'm adamant about is that she's going to continue to use the Vaadwaur Beam Emitter Arrays because they look fantastic. Right now, she's in a Phantom using said Vaademmiters + a vanilla Particle Emmision Torp with a Jem'hadar 2 pc, CC Deflector, Borg AM + Cutting Beam, crafted Sci console, Leech, and an Iso Charge while I climb the rep/R&D ladder for the yummy traits.

    What Sci ship would you guys recommended for a cap like mine who will be using Reciprocity & AHOD as starship traits? I'd like to do decent damage while contributing controls for my ASTF pugs when needed. Or should I just keep my sci cap in an escort as some have told me that other caps actually do better in a sci ship? :o
  • sharpie65sharpie65 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    If she's a partigen person, I'd go with the Dauntless or Pathfinder based on what another person said in a different thread..or might have been this one..about the Dauntless being a partigen monster. That's all I have for now, unless you're wanting a lower tiered ship which I'm afraid I won't be able to help you with.
    MXeSfqV.jpg
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,985 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The Nebula is worth a look at, it's a decent sci/cruiser hybrid
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • synfoolasynfoola Member Posts: 156 Arc User
      edited April 2015
      Thanks, all. :) I have enough refined dil to grab enough Zen for a couple of T6 ships but, if the T5's are still good for my playstyle, then I'll happily consider them. Do you think the fleet upgrade of the Scryer and other T6 ships will bring something that might make me want to hold off on ship purchases until later?
    • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,985 Arc User
      edited April 2015
      synfoola wrote: »
      Thanks, all. :) I have enough refined dil to grab enough Zen for a couple of T6 ships but, if the T5's are still good for my playstyle, then I'll happily consider them. Do you think the fleet upgrade of the Scryer and other T6 ships will bring something that might make me want to hold off on ship purchases until later?

      Well, fleet dauntless, fleet scryer and fleet pathfinder will all be available with this new patch.
      NMXb2ph.png
        "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
        -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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