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Phaserbanks, Phaserarrays and Cannons

wotertoolwotertool Member Posts: 96 Arc User
Hello everyone,

I am not sure where I should post this, so I thought the general section will do it. Please move it, if it belongs somewhere else.

After I saw ST Nemesis again some time ago, I suddenly asked myself: Why does Valdore Class use cannons and most other ships mainly beams? And why is the D'Deridex and Negh'Var equipped with Disruptorbanks?

For example, the Constitution Class used Phaserbanks
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/1/1a/Enterprise_feuert_Phaser.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110425070740&path-prefix=de

while the Galaxy and Sovereign use Phaserarrays. Seeing no other "modern" Federationship with the Phaserbanks, I thought: They are outdated and the advantages of the Arrays outweight the banks by far.

Here a Phaserarray
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/9/97/GalaxyPhaser.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20061130220447&path-prefix=de

Reading the STO Forum about the Galaxy Class looks mainly like this:

"The arrays channel the energy to a single point and release it to fire ---> The Galaxy was so powerful, because it had the longest Array".

According to Memory Alpha however, the Sovereign's stronger Type XII Phasers have a higher energy output (but that's another story)

So, well, it looks like that the Phaserarrays are a really good choice. But what makes a Disruptorbank equal to the Phaserarray? Why did the Starfleet switch from Banks to Arrays?

https://storiesbywilliams.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/warbird.jpg



And last but not least:
What gives cannons the advantage over beams? I mean, I usually connect high inaccuracy with cannons in space where 400m objects shoot at each other while moving at 50% of lightspeed dozens of kilometres apart.

I don't know if there is a specification for the Valdore for example if it is also equipped with some sort of beam-weapon or just with pure cannons, because the advantage must be huge to make such a gigantic vessel with just cannons and torpedos.
Post edited by wotertool on

Comments

  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    westmetals wrote: »
    Probably just due to on-screen sex appeal. Cannons look cool.
    .

    And the question of beam bank versus array probably comes down to the SFX department trying to work out how to get the flash Gordon-style death beam to project from a given ship. The galaxy has nice long, functionally designed arrays but when you get to the Neg'Var you have something that was made perhaps more to look like a bigger, badder KDF battle cruiser than to actually meet practical challenges in space combat. So it gets a single point beam bank despite canon reasons for why another type of weapon is preferred for a similar ship type.

    You can only take in-universe logic so far with any fictional medium which has a function in entertainment.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • dareaudareau Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Per the technobabble:

    Originally (as in TOS), beams fired in pairs, from a "bank". Much like a turret on a modern battleship. The multiple banks provided coverage to most/all points of the ship. Limits were placed on the amount of power that each emitter could produce.

    In TMP, with the "warp power upgrades", the banks were starting to produce "more energy" than they could safely handle, so the "stagger fire" of TMP was the norm - push out the bigger bolt from the bank, then let it cool while the other half dumped it's power.

    By TNG, the array was born. Each emitter puts out X power, then it is all channeled to a "master emitter" that sends the "guidance" beam drawing all that power down the beam in one big heavy hit.

    Cannons were designed to output all that power in one concentrated burst, then cool a bit before the next burst went out.

    Of course, better Mk XII arrays could dump out more power per emitter than a Galaxy's Mk X or XI, so a shorter array could "hit harder" than the big Galaxy arrays.

    As far as accuracy? Computers are what's aiming these little bursts/rays of light at the tiny tiny targets zipping around at tremendous speeds - so barring a "last second" jink to "evade" the targetting computer (which is why most "evasion patterns" are based on short random movements I've always told myself) all shots were 100% accurate.
    Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...

    To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    My headcanon explanation always went soemthing like this:

    Phaser arrays were never seen on anything other than Starfleet ship. It is a weapon that by philosophy and design something "Starfleet" - also probably they care that this technology isn't shared with others - they are the pinnacle of "beam" weapons.

    Beam banks/emitters are the most basic weapon literally every space faring civilization has developed, disruptors being more basic than phasers. They are more accurate and deal more damage to shields (than cannons) due to semi-continuing fire.

    Cannons are simpler but come in different "flavors" like a BoPs twin-linked or a smaller turret as some Kligon ships sported. More effective against hull but unguided (unlike in STO) so they are only effective on short range and found on ships that are more prone to "close combat" situations like BoPs and the bigger battlecruisers that are also troop transports like the Negh'Var, D'Deridex etc. and more feasible on ships that cloak, go near their target and surprise it.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Do not try and make sense of Star Trek technology. It's difficult with TOS (but sort of possible), but it became nonsense with TNG and after.

    Just accept it and go on down the road.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Cannons are prefered over beams on ships that don't sensibly run them, see the Defiant class, BoPs, several Romulan designs. Cannons are much smaller in their implementation but allow for much more firepower than a beam weapon in the same form factor allowing for smaller and more nimble designs without loss of firepower potential.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,762 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Could these be Phaser Cannons?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UspfD7SW5Ns

    btw - Am I the only person, outside of Riker, who ever thought of shooting at an enemy ship from directly above or below? ;)

    That clip is how I feel when my long Samsar enters any of those Klingon filled Red Marbles. Ship after ship exploding after only a few shots. I don't really feel lthat powerful other place in the game.
    f5cc65bc8f3b91f963e328314df7c48d.jpg
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • rimmarierimmarie Member Posts: 418 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Could these be Phaser Cannons?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UspfD7SW5Ns

    btw - Am I the only person, outside of Riker, who ever thought of shooting at an enemy ship from directly above or below? ;)

    That clip is how I feel when my long Samsar enters any of those Klingon filled Red Marbles. Ship after ship exploding after only a few shots. I don't really feel lthat powerful other place in the game.

    Actually, that's the Phaser Lance
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    adamkafei wrote: »
    Cannons are prefered over beams on ships that don't sensibly run them, see the Defiant class, BoPs, several Romulan designs. Cannons are much smaller in their implementation but allow for much more firepower than a beam weapon in the same form factor allowing for smaller and more nimble designs without loss of firepower potential.

    The Defiant has a 360° beam array on top, I think it's even on-screen proven. But it's probably used as a kind of point defense rather than primary weapon.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • wotertoolwotertool Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Thanks for the answers, it was helpful ^^
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