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I am so dumb, I would like to share it with you

thestaticsthestatics Member Posts: 2 Arc User
So, today I got "caught" by the heroic, never-false-positive fraud prevention system. Even better, there was no warning I would be flagged when I paid my cash. Only after, once I had the Zen, did the forces of justice and goodness descend on me with their red text of probation-tude.

But, before you decide this is just a complaint thread, I have a funny joke for you. You see, I got so mad, I decided to count exactly how much money I had spent on STO via steam wallet. The results were... saddening. Nay, terrifying.

http://imgur.com/a/pNWZ1

Honestly, I never realized. But it makes sense. I got about 5 gamer friends in the game - a lot of them are poor starving students, and I have a decent job. So I definitely remember buying a few Lock box ships as gifts to them with the 'ol Cash -> Zen -> Lock Box Keys -> Exchange methods. But still, 1719.09??? Holy ****.

So, I would like to express my undying thanks to the Fraud prevention team of PWE. Without you, I never would have paused to consider how much cash I have wasted in this game. It is clear I need to delete my characters immediately. I have issues. Thank-you for helping me un-become a customer. My wallet is in your debt.

Like, it literally is in debt, to you. Get it? -chuckle-

TRIBBLE. But seriously, no I'm never spending a cent more on this game. Ever. Considering how the devs have completely messed everything up, it isn't even worth 17 dollars. Let alone 1700. Please proceed to mock and laugh at me. I deserve it.
Post edited by thestatics on
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Comments

  • captainzheicaptainzhei Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Unless you have gone without buying food, or had money issues as a result of buying into the game, I wouldn't say you're dumb. Just... a little obsessive maybe.

    As for ragequitting over the fraud prevention system, I was also hit with the red box of doom. I just changed my payment method to use the Google Wallet and I was good to go.

    If you find you don't like the game any more, well... I wish you the best and I hope you find a good long game in the 50 to 60 dollar range that will be more satisfying.
    ==========================================
    Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gfreeman98gfreeman98 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Hey uhh... before you go...

    Can you buy me a lockbox ship? :D I have none. :(
    screenshot_2015-03-01-resize4.png
  • thestaticsthestatics Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ...

    As for ragequitting over the fraud prevention system, I was also hit with the red box of doom. I just changed my payment method to use the Google Wallet and I was good to go.

    ...

    Is Google Wallet somehow more trustworthy than Steam wallet? I'm confused as to why actually changing your payment method to one without a long history is fine, but my... uhm... lengthy history, is not.
    gfreeman98 wrote: »
    Hey uhh... before you go...

    Can you buy me a lockbox ship? :D I have none. :(

    :(
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Wow. That sucks.

    Everything is working as intended.
    thestatics wrote: »
    So, today I got "caught" by the heroic, never-false-positive fraud prevention system. Even better, there was no warning I would be flagged when I paid my cash. Only after, once I had the Zen, did the forces of justice and goodness descend on me with their red text of probation-tude.

    But, before you decide this is just a complaint thread, I have a funny joke for you. You see, I got so mad, I decided to count exactly how much money I had spent on STO via steam wallet. The results were... saddening. Nay, terrifying.

    http://imgur.com/a/pNWZ1

    Honestly, I never realized. But it makes sense. I got about 5 gamer friends in the game - a lot of them are poor starving students, and I have a decent job. So I definitely remember buying a few Lock box ships as gifts to them with the 'ol Cash -> Zen -> Lock Box Keys -> Exchange methods. But still, 1719.09??? Holy ****.

    So, I would like to express my undying thanks to the Fraud prevention team of PWE. Without you, I never would have paused to consider how much cash I have wasted in this game. It is clear I need to delete my characters immediately. I have issues. Thank-you for helping me un-become a customer. My wallet is in your debt.

    Like, it literally is in debt, to you. Get it? -chuckle-

    TRIBBLE. But seriously, no I'm never spending a cent more on this game. Ever. Considering how the devs have completely messed everything up, it isn't even worth 17 dollars. Let alone 1700. Please proceed to mock and laugh at me. I deserve it.
  • jam3s1701jam3s1701 Member Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Use paypal seems to work fine, AND! i get your miffed however! have you never been in a shop and your card flagged for some reason so they call the bank etc??, Well this is the same as that it and goes away after 10 days so whats the biggy better than it works at all than not then someone spends 1000's on your card is it not???
    JtaDmwW.png
  • jarfarujarfaru Member Posts: 572 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Ok i don't feel so bad. I would never spend that much in any game.
  • lordkhoraklordkhorak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Alternate made up money systems have plenty of reasons for existing, and this is one of them. It's a basically accepted fact that people will, in a fashion, simply lose track of how much they're actually spending because the numbers get obfuscated via the process.

    In the battle between you and an even vaguely effective sales department, you're f***ed. You know nothing. The simplest of techniques will pull a psychological wedgie up over your head and leave you looking at your own butt, and when they really get started you end up finding out that they know which clock face direction people in different countries prefer to walk when they're shopping.

    Modern media and marketing makes previous attempts at propaganda and psychological warfare look like a crowd of blind, bumbling idiots trying to find the pin in the haystack on the moon.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • daqheghdaqhegh Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    One more person who disagrees with PWE. They do not tolerate decent, real or imagined.
    My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
  • stofskstofsk Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    This thread made me look up how much money I've spent on this game. I'm delighted to find out it was less than four digits.
  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    This is why I'm legitimately terrified to go back and estimate how much I've actually spent on this game.
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    stupid....I wouldn't know, but if anything you've shown yourself to have a serious impulse control problem.....i'm not even trying to be mean, but I would seriously advise you to seek help about this
  • stofskstofsk Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    That's a bit harsh. The OP's image is roughly a year and a half worth of purchases, and it's only $1719. Assuming he has a good job that pays a decent salary, that's a significant but not really huge sum, especially since it's actually just a lot of small payments. Most of the transactions are $10, 20 or $30, with $50 being the largest consistent expenditure, and only once did he pay $100.
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I already know that over four years, I have spent approximately $4500.00 on this game...

    Not proud, just foolish...

    :cool:
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I was looking more to the pattern than the amount itself, 6 or 7 $10 purchaces per month, often less than a week apart from one another? I guess its just me but i'd say it implies an impulsive personality, at least where money is concerned
  • thestaticsthestatics Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    stupid....I wouldn't know, but if anything you've shown yourself to have a serious impulse control problem.....i'm not even trying to be mean, but I would seriously advise you to seek help about this

    It's possible, but ironically, I'm actually good with money in most other ways.

    STO was my first "freemium" MMO, and by God, I need to keep an eye on that kinda stuff in the future.

    In the good ol' days of my youth, I usually had around 2 "MMO accounts". That means 2 x 15 USD per month, or (with tax and conversion), about 350$ per year. I also had/have a boring, binary life. I work, I come home, I relax with an hour of casual MMO. I don't drink, don't smoke, don't buy much stuff. So, in a world-wide way, I don't budget a lot for entertainment.

    I stopped monthly's after awhile and only play STO now.

    So, I would even say that around 6, or 700$ for MMOing for a 2 year period isn't all that bad. That's what I thought I was at. Hell, I thought I was under that.

    But, as sfosfk pointed out
    Most of the transactions are $10, 20 or $30, with $50 being the largest consistent expenditure, and only once did he pay $100.

    I think I got into the trap where I started telling myself that "Oh, if it was a paid MMO, I would have thrown 20 bucks this month at it." Except I started doing it...like... every day :P.

    Not consistent. Last November seems the worst. I know about 3-400 of that cash wasn't even spent on me. It was to mega-buy Dil to help my fleet level (and assorted gift ships to friends for xmas). But even at 1400, that's twice what I thought I put in. Heh.
  • synthiasuicidesynthiasuicide Member Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Yeah, Im afraid to look. One day I will but not with my significant other around......
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • lindalefflindaleff Member Posts: 3,734 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    You should never be using real money in games anyway. It really is just as simple as that. NEVER use real money in games.
    I completed a 2-man CSE, ISE, and KASE, Optionals included. And I soloed Winter Invasion.
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  • t0xsick2t0xsick2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    thestatics wrote: »
    So, today I got "caught" by the heroic, never-false-positive fraud prevention system. Even better, there was no warning I would be flagged when I paid my cash. Only after, once I had the Zen, did the forces of justice and goodness descend on me with their red text of probation-tude.

    But, before you decide this is just a complaint thread, I have a funny joke for you. You see, I got so mad, I decided to count exactly how much money I had spent on STO via steam wallet. The results were... saddening. Nay, terrifying.

    http://imgur.com/a/pNWZ1

    Honestly, I never realized. But it makes sense. I got about 5 gamer friends in the game - a lot of them are poor starving students, and I have a decent job. So I definitely remember buying a few Lock box ships as gifts to them with the 'ol Cash -> Zen -> Lock Box Keys -> Exchange methods. But still, 1719.09??? Holy ****.

    So, I would like to express my undying thanks to the Fraud prevention team of PWE. Without you, I never would have paused to consider how much cash I have wasted in this game. It is clear I need to delete my characters immediately. I have issues. Thank-you for helping me un-become a customer. My wallet is in your debt.

    Like, it literally is in debt, to you. Get it? -chuckle-

    TRIBBLE. But seriously, no I'm never spending a cent more on this game. Ever. Considering how the devs have completely messed everything up, it isn't even worth 17 dollars. Let alone 1700. Please proceed to mock and laugh at me. I deserve it.

    What are you looking for some kind of prize or accolade? compared to some ppl i know you havent spent a shat of sh**. what is the point of this post.. are we supposed to applaud you or feel sorry?
  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    thestatics wrote: »
    So, today I got "caught" by the heroic, never-false-positive fraud prevention system. Even better, there was no warning I would be flagged when I paid my cash. Only after, once I had the Zen, did the forces of justice and goodness descend on me with their red text of probation-tude.

    But, before you decide this is just a complaint thread, I have a funny joke for you. You see, I got so mad, I decided to count exactly how much money I had spent on STO via steam wallet. The results were... saddening. Nay, terrifying.

    http://imgur.com/a/pNWZ1

    Honestly, I never realized. But it makes sense. I got about 5 gamer friends in the game - a lot of them are poor starving students, and I have a decent job. So I definitely remember buying a few Lock box ships as gifts to them with the 'ol Cash -> Zen -> Lock Box Keys -> Exchange methods. But still, 1719.09??? Holy ****.

    So, I would like to express my undying thanks to the Fraud prevention team of PWE. Without you, I never would have paused to consider how much cash I have wasted in this game. It is clear I need to delete my characters immediately. I have issues. Thank-you for helping me un-become a customer. My wallet is in your debt.

    Like, it literally is in debt, to you. Get it? -chuckle-

    TRIBBLE. But seriously, no I'm never spending a cent more on this game. Ever. Considering how the devs have completely messed everything up, it isn't even worth 17 dollars. Let alone 1700. Please proceed to mock and laugh at me. I deserve it.

    Good god man. L2Contraband!!
  • bobtheskull99bobtheskull99 Member Posts: 706 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    at the very least, if you were going to spend that much, you should have went lifetime a long time ago :P
  • admrenlarreckadmrenlarreck Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Could be worse. One guy posted here that his purchase from steam wallet got flagged by the fraud system. Then Steam perma banned his entire account he lost everything.
    fayhers_starfleet.jpg


    Fleet leader Nova Elite

    Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
    @ren_larreck
  • t0xsick2t0xsick2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Is the point of this thread is.. if you are not responseable with your money its cryptics fault?
  • bcwhguderian1941bcwhguderian1941 Member Posts: 804 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    OP..., or anybody... don't beat yourself up. :(

    If you spent $1700.00 for "entertainment", big deal. If you do the math (hours played, time
    enjoyed), I think you'll find it was a VERY small price compared to what others outside of
    MMO's pay for thier "entertainment". I've got a friend who goes to Aspen each year for
    skiing. Drops say $3000.00 to $4000.00 a pop. And that does'nt count the cost of his
    equipment. We ALL spend money on something for fun (movies, theater, concerts, sporting
    events, vacations, etc.).

    Such folks have no more to show for thier money spent than you. What, some pictures, and
    good memories. Have you gotten less?

    Remember the game for the good times it brought you. NOTHING stupid at ALL.


    BCW. :)
  • cptndata1cptndata1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    OP..., or anybody... don't beat yourself up. :(

    If you spent $1700.00 for "entertainment", big deal. If you do the math (hours played, time
    enjoyed), I think you'll find it was a VERY small price compared to what others outside of
    MMO's pay for thier "entertainment". I've got a friend who goes to Aspen each year for
    skiing. Drops say $3000.00 to $4000.00 a pop. And that does'nt count the cost of his
    equipment. We ALL spend money on something for fun (movies, theater, concerts, sporting
    events, vacations, etc.).

    Such folks have no more to show for thier money spent than you. What, some pictures, and
    good memories. Have you gotten less?

    Remember the game for the good times it brought you. NOTHING stupid at ALL.


    BCW. :)

    That's a pretty good point actually.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Real join date September 2012
  • jornadojornado Member Posts: 918 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    While I won't make any judgement on whether it's a good thing or a bad thing to spend money on entertainment, whether it's Aspen or STO, and whether or not one gives more value or enjoyment than another, there is something to be learned here.

    The fact of the matter is that the freemium model works for two reasons.

    The first are the proverbial whales who have disposable income and spend in games for the sake of spending.

    The second are people who have psychological tendencies that make it easy to impulsively spend money for shinies. Most gamblers fall into this category, as do many people who compulsively get a new smartphone every generation, and similar tendencies.

    There really isn't a problem with the old guard whales. In bygone days, they used to spend money on works of art, or hiring a string quartet to play at dinner parties, or just have things like dinner parties, or do the most awesome holiday spread on the lawn of anyone on the block. They know what they are spending, and more often than not have long term plans that benefit their own personal enjoyment of life. They really aren't the staple of the freemium model at this point - there just aren't enough of them to generate really huge returns.

    The second group, pathological shiny hunters, often intentionally or unintentionally will avoid any long term thoughts about spending, and buy shinies when the mood strikes. These are the real whales of the freemium model. Everything in freemium games is made to hit those certain weaknesses with cheap thrill rewards. It's exploitative at best, and downright unethical at worst. It's the reason casinos always come back, it's the reason addictive substances will never go away, and it's the reason I still smoke - physically, endorphin response mechanisms are very powerful motivators.

    The key here is that the OP didn't really think of how much the shiny hunting cost until by chance, he happened to look back. Now that he knows, he won't spend more. That's not stupid, even though he calls it that himself. That's being taken for a ride, because you have a certain personality profile.

    Many companies now employ very smart people who have degrees in things like psychology and sociology, and know very well how to exploit human weakness. To think that they wouldn't, as long as they can get away with it, its silly. Eventually, it will be regulated, the same as gambling, smoking, and heroin. Parts of Europe are already taking the first steps, and it will continue - that may be one reason there was an increase in new virtual goods pricing, with no logical reduction in the pricing of now obsolete purchases. The powers that be know that the golden teat is starting to swell closed via legalistic hemorrhoids.

    My point is, PWE pursues very aggressively a system that perpetuates the exploitation of certain people - and not a whole lot of others seem to care.

    Which I find odd, especially in a Trek game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
  • thestaticsthestatics Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    OP..., or anybody... don't beat yourself up. :(

    If you spent $1700.00 for "entertainment", big deal. If you do the math (hours played, time
    enjoyed), I think you'll find it was a VERY small price compared to what others outside of
    MMO's pay for thier "entertainment". I've got a friend who goes to Aspen each year for
    skiing. Drops say $3000.00 to $4000.00 a pop. And that does'nt count the cost of his
    equipment. We ALL spend money on something for fun (movies, theater, concerts, sporting
    events, vacations, etc.).

    Such folks have no more to show for thier money spent than you. What, some pictures, and
    good memories. Have you gotten less?

    Remember the game for the good times it brought you. NOTHING stupid at ALL.


    BCW. :)


    Well, thanks for saying that, probably a great way to think about it. I don't even always log in using Steam - and Steam claims I've spent like 700+ hours or something insane like that in STO.

    Basically means I've been entertained at a rate of about 2 or 2.50$ at most per hour....

    .... which, ironically, is about what I used to spend in quarters for an hour at the arcade back when arcade's existed.

    Hmm :rolleyes:

    (And yet)

    jornado wrote: »

    You should read jornado's post, a small snippet of which I'll re-quote

    The key here is that the OP didn't really think of how much the shiny hunting cost until by chance, he happened to look back. Now that he knows, he won't spend more. That's not stupid, even though he calls it that himself. That's being taken for a ride, because you have a certain personality profile.

    I still think I'm done parting with my cash, at any rate. I can grind for stuff I need. 2 grand is enough lol. The "stupid" remark was literally what I said to myself upon actually seeing it. Like, "Holy mother of God, I'm an idiot. Why the hell don't I keep a tally of this TRIBBLE." Being opposed by professional moneymakers and psychologists aside, I almost feel that's a natural reaction. Lol.
  • bcwhguderian1941bcwhguderian1941 Member Posts: 804 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    thestatics wrote: »
    Well, thanks for saying that, probably a great way to think about it. I don't even always log in using Steam - and Steam claims I've spent like 700+ hours or something insane like that in STO.

    Basically means I've been entertained at a rate of about 2 or 2.50$ at most per hour....

    .... which, ironically, is about what I used to spend in quarters for an hour at the arcade back when arcade's existed.

    Hmm :rolleyes:

    (And yet)




    I still think I'm done parting with my cash, at any rate. I can grind for stuff I need. 2 grand is enough lol. The "stupid" remark was literally what I said to myself upon actually seeing it. Like, "Holy mother of God, I'm an idiot. Why the hell don't I keep a tally of this TRIBBLE." Being opposed by professional moneymakers and psychologists aside, I almost feel that's a natural reaction. Lol.


    Consider the fact that you discovered what you've actually spent over said period in a matter
    of seconds
    , as opposed to just playing the game and spending as you went along. Regardless
    of what our "resident psycologists" say, all at once, it can seem worse than it really is. If the
    amount were $17,000.00, then MAYBE some concern would be warranted.


    BCW. :)
  • thestaticsthestatics Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    If the amount were $17,000.00, then MAYBE some concern would be warranted.


    BCW. :)

    Considering some of the replies in this thread have amounted to, "Hah, 1700. That's cute", your statement may have more truth to it than people may suspect. :o
  • jornadojornado Member Posts: 918 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    thestatics wrote: »
    Considering some of the replies in this thread have amounted to, "Hah, 1700. That's cute", your statement may have more truth to it than people may suspect. :o

    I spent somewhat more than you before I took a quick retrospective. In fairness, some of that was sub costs pre-P2W, but like most people who get hooked in these things, I refused to actually tally costs until I really forced myself too.

    I stopped paying for anything in STO about a year ago. I stopped recommending it about 9 months ago, and I stopped playing entirely except for some testing of DR and to say hello to what little remains of my once proud Tier 5 fleet about 4 months ago.

    I know that I have an addictive personality, and it's always a bit of a fight, especially now that gamers are the "it" market for this type of exploitation.

    I've gone back to my old sub-based MMOs, which admittedly have less impulsive shinies, but leave me with a better taste in my mouth, and more money in my wallet.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
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